[hardtobeat]

Big D has 2 massive questions to answer for me after his team selection
1) Why the continuing infatuation with HRK , he offers the team absolutely nothing bar effort Burke at least has a turn of pace!

2) Why persist with Field at CB, and not give him a go in his best position ? IMO he should have started instead of Barry last night.

[miggybaggy]

For me, Darren Moore has his hands tied by the lack of depth and quality in our squad, but his priority has to be promotion surely? My worry is how fragile we would be should anything happen to our most important players...Barnes and Gayle, both of whom are loans.

I really hope Darren Moore and the board are working hard to remedy that scenario.

[Mo]

I was about to say just this.
Fans have been saying why haven't the likes of Harper, Field and Edwards been playing on Saturdays, the answer was there for all to see last night.
The training staff see them day in day out so they get the full picture.
The kids looked good against the likes of Luton and Mansfield but I think last night that the Championship is a step up that they are not ready to take.

You're an 18 year old kid looking for inspiration to your right Tyrone Mears is hiding and going through the motions , to your left you have Gareth Barry whose legs have gone , in front you have an old man and injury prone Morrison and up front you have a complete waster what chance have you got ? I was there last night there was very little intensity so it did the kids more harm than good , the atmosphere was non existent .Would be better off at Walsall or Shrewsbury where they will play .

The club likes to spin good things about its academy but it’s a sad state of affairs they trust a kid from Leicester city above their own .

[seteefeet]

I love the cups and am always disappointed when we don't give it a go but, for once, I'm not that fussed. It's clear that DM sees it as a distraction and, while I don't agree, I can see his point. When in the Prem, the cups were our only chance of success but, this year, we genuinely have something to play for so I'll cut him some slack.
As for the team selection and performance, it was truly woeful with not a single player doing anything to raise their profile. That being said, we have to remember that Palace are a Prem side and not a bad one at that, whereas we are now a league below, so would probably expect to get beat even with a full strength side. maybe DM didn't want to derail our momentum by having our 1st 11 gubbed.
If we win Saturday, all will be forgiven.

[seteefeet]

You're an 18 year old kid looking for inspiration to your right Tyrone Mears is hiding and going through the motions , to your left you have Gareth Barry whose legs have gone , in front you have an old man and injury prone Morrison and up front you have a complete waster what chance have you got ? I was there last night there was very little intensity so it did the kids more harm than good , the atmosphere was non existent .Would be better off at Walsall or Shrewsbury where they will play .

The club likes to spin good things about its academy but it’s a sad state of affairs they trust a kid from Leicester city above their own .

Sorry but we don't have anyone, kid or senior, that is anywhere near the kid from Leicester.
If DM where to drop Barnes for any of our own, I would think he'd lost his mind!

[Atomic]

I love the cups and am always disappointed when we don't give it a go but, for once, I'm not that fussed. It's clear that DM sees it as a distraction and, while I don't agree, I can see his point. When in the Prem, the cups were our only chance of success but, this year, we genuinely have something to play for so I'll cut him some slack.
As for the team selection and performance, it was truly woeful with not a single player doing anything to raise their profile. That being said, we have to remember that Palace are a Prem side and not a bad one at that, whereas we are now a league below, so would probably expect to get beat even with a full strength side. maybe DM didn't want to derail our momentum by having our 1st 11 gubbed.
If we win Saturday, all will be forgiven.

I won't, not on this issue.

Putting out a weakened team is bad enough but when we are 1-0 down, yes only 1-0, he could easily have put Burke and Leko on and have a go at Palace. He did nothing at all to try and win that game and that for me is unacceptable in any circumstances.

No I won't hang him because of it but there is no way I will condone his attitude towards that fixture last night.

[seteefeet]

I won't, not on this issue.

Putting out a weakened team is bad enough but when we are 1-0 down, yes only 1-0, he could easily have put Burke and Leko on and have a go at Palace. He did nothing at all to try and win that game and that for me is unacceptable in any circumstances.

No I won't hang him because of it but there is no way I will condone his attitude towards that fixture last night.

I'll never agree with it mate, every year I'm a bit nearer to carking it without seeing us win a cup. Just saying I understand his motives in his first full season.

[DaveWBA]

Perhaps you'd all be better served directing your angst at those in charge of recruitment for assembling such a shallow squad. Crystal Palace are a team we were competing against and beating 12 months ago, now they're able to field a second string full of internationals. We had a young central midfielder at centre half and Wes Hoolahan.

Aside from bringing on some fast lads instead of HRK, what was Big Dave supposed to do? Leko and Burke hardly have a track record of coming on and changing a game do they?!

[Albion79]

I think what last night did show was how far we have regressed as a club and thats not Darren Moore's fault.

Just over a year ago we were starting a premier league season as a stable mid table club who had finished 10th the season before, within twelve months we had finished bottom after a quite pathetic season (last 6 games aside) and last night Crystal Palaces backup team outclassed our backup team.

The majority of Palace backups players last night would get in our starting team, to put it in context this is Crystal Palace, not Man City or Liverpool, Palace are a nothing premier league team (as we were) but they are far far superior to us nowadays, we have fallen so much in the last year (though the rot had started before that)

Last night Palace didnt even need to break sweat, they played in second gear and if it wasnt for some good saves from Myhill it could of been 6 or 7. It showed where our squad is at, based on last night alone we have a number of players like Mears, Field, Harper, Townsend, Morrison, Robson-Kanu who can fill in as a backup but put them together as a team and it shows the lack of quality.

That said it was against premier league opposition and its not fair to judge based on been thrown together for a game once a month which is what has happened with the cup, but last night maybe gives a good idea of where we are as a club and what Mooro is doing.

Just my view but i would say Big Dave has been told by the owners to get us promoted by hook or by crook, get on the premier league gravy train again. Our squad should be very competitive at this level as its proving this season, our attacking firepower will blow away most teams and that will compensate for a lot of our defensive issues.

I think he is trying to implement a more passing style whilst trying to achieve the above and it is tough,  but i think he knows the end goal from the owners this season is promotion, thats why he wanted to keep the bulk of last seasons squad as they should be more than good enough at this level, add the quality of Gayle and Barnes at this level and it bodes well.

With us signing Hoolahan (who looks good) and by the looks of it Sako on short term deals, it means we have took advantage of our financial position as a newly relegated club and gives us a strong chance of just over powering and attacking teams and just been too strong.

The downside to that is its a short term approach, its almost lets get promoted and worry about the premier league then, i dont think we are building anything at the moment, if we did go up, the only ones who you could say may even be premier league quality next year who we own would be Johnstone, Dawson, Gibbs, Phillips, Jrod, Livermore and there are major questions about all of them.

As a fan i would like to of seen us sign more players with a view to long term development and i would be surprised if Moore didnt think the same, as they get better, we get better, and they make the step up with us, like Bournemouth did, even if that means not going up right away.

However i understand the downside to that is you cant pick and choose if / when you go up and from the owners point of view they arent bothered about player development, progression, etc they just want to make sure we are back getting £200m a season for being in the premier league.

I think overall with all the above factors, Big Dave is doing a good job of whats asked of him, i do think the biggest mistake he has made is keeping the young players at the club when we were looking at signing experienced players on short team deals, those lads wont play now for a few months and based on last night, they arent good enough yet, they need to be playing reguarly elsewhere, where winning and losing means something.

I would imagine with Dowling coming in now there would hopefully be a bit more long term vision but i do think this seasons is just get up by whatever means possible.

[mulliganstired]

And don't forget there was a lot of talk in the summer about how we could do a Sunderland.  I suppose we still could, but it looks like we've avoided that one.

[seteefeet]

And don't forget there was a lot of talk in the summer about how we could do a Sunderland.  I suppose we still could, but it looks like we've avoided that one.

That, sir, is a very good point!

[Oldbury24]

I didn't go last night so I am not carrying the disappointment of seeing a defeat, and I feel this cup is one too many for a squad like ours (full team for the FA please Darren Moore) but found it interesting that he pretty much used it as a way to give the likes of Hoolahan, Morrison and Mears some game time.  Not sure why Barry needed to play, but apart from that you can't really argue with his team too much and I would not have wanted Gayle risked unless it was 0-0 with 10 mins to go.   Also interesting to see that he is persisting with Field at CB, although you can see why Darren Moore wants to try out/develop him in the role as the system he wants to play ideally needs good passers in that position. 

Would have been good to see the likes of Leko and Burke get some game time over the often ineffectual HRK , but think that shows how far ahead Harper and Field are in the minds of Darren Moore.  Leko, well maybe he's just not good enough (remember he couldn't get in the Bristol team last year) and Burke - well, its one of those - nothing concrete but the noises you hear around him just aren't positive.  When he was captaining the Scotland kids it seemed he did not mix well with the group and that's not a good sign, particularly when you know Darren Moore is very much about team rather than individuals.

My only real concern at the moment is actually up front.  I see a lot of comments saying that our front department can blow teams away, but take Gayle and Barnes out of that team and we are left with JRod and HRK who, whilst both are grafters, can both look quite impotent at times.  Lets hope the Sakho deal does come through.....didn't realise he scored 6 in 18 at Premier level for Palace before his injury and even a 80% fit Sakho could have an impact at this level.

[seteefeet]

I didn't go last night so I am not carrying the disappointment of seeing a defeat, and I feel this cup is one too many for a squad like ours (full team for the FA please Darren Moore) but found it interesting that he pretty much used it as a way to give the likes of Hoolahan, Morrison and Mears some game time.  Not sure why Barry needed to play, but apart from that you can't really argue with his team too much and I would not have wanted Gayle risked unless it was 0-0 with 10 mins to go.   Also interesting to see that he is persisting with Field at CB, although you can see why Darren Moore wants to try out/develop him in the role as the system he wants to play ideally needs good passers in that position. 

Would have been good to see the likes of Leko and Burke get some game time over the often ineffectual HRK , but think that shows how far ahead Harper and Field are in the minds of Darren Moore.  Leko, well maybe he's just not good enough (remember he couldn't get in the Bristol team last year) and Burke - well, its one of those - nothing concrete but the noises you hear around him just aren't positive.  When he was captaining the Scotland kids it seemed he did not mix well with the group and that's not a good sign, particularly when you know Darren Moore is very much about team rather than individuals.

My only real concern at the moment is actually up front.  I see a lot of comments saying that our front department can blow teams away, but take Gayle and Barnes out of that team and we are left with JRod and HRK who, whilst both are grafters, can both look quite impotent at times.  Lets hope the Sakho deal does come through.....didn't realise he scored 6 in 18 at Premier level for Palace before his injury and even a 80% fit Sakho could have an impact at this level.

I would rather have an 80% Sako, with a brick in his shoe, over HRK.
That may seem harsh but he just isn't any good. Whenever he starts we are, as you say, impotent. Need an upgrade regardless but, if Gayle gets injured, we could really struggle. Get Sako in please.

[Mikkyk]

I think what last night did show was how far we have regressed as a club and thats not Darren Moore's fault.

Just over a year ago we were starting a premier league season as a stable mid table club who had finished 10th the season before, within twelve months we had finished bottom after a quite pathetic season (last 6 games aside) and last night Crystal Palaces backup team outclassed our backup team.

The majority of Palace backups players last night would get in our starting team, to put it in context this is Crystal Palace, not Man City or Liverpool, Palace are a nothing premier league team (as we were) but they are far far superior to us nowadays, we have fallen so much in the last year (though the rot had started before that)

Last night Palace didnt even need to break sweat, they played in second gear and if it wasnt for some good saves from Myhill it could of been 6 or 7. It showed where our squad is at, based on last night alone we have a number of players like Mears, Field, Harper, Townsend, Morrison, Robson-Kanu who can fill in as a backup but put them together as a team and it shows the lack of quality.

That said it was against premier league opposition and its not fair to judge based on been thrown together for a game once a month which is what has happened with the cup, but last night maybe gives a good idea of where we are as a club and what Mooro is doing.

Just my view but i would say Big Dave has been told by the owners to get us promoted by hook or by crook, get on the premier league gravy train again. Our squad should be very competitive at this level as its proving this season, our attacking firepower will blow away most teams and that will compensate for a lot of our defensive issues.

I think he is trying to implement a more passing style whilst trying to achieve the above and it is tough,  but i think he knows the end goal from the owners this season is promotion, thats why he wanted to keep the bulk of last seasons squad as they should be more than good enough at this level, add the quality of Gayle and Barnes at this level and it bodes well.

With us signing Hoolahan (who looks good) and by the looks of it Sako on short term deals, it means we have took advantage of our financial position as a newly relegated club and gives us a strong chance of just over powering and attacking teams and just been too strong.

The downside to that is its a short term approach, its almost lets get promoted and worry about the premier league then, i dont think we are building anything at the moment, if we did go up, the only ones who you could say may even be premier league quality next year who we own would be Johnstone, Dawson, Gibbs, Phillips, Jrod, Livermore and there are major questions about all of them.

As a fan i would like to of seen us sign more players with a view to long term development and i would be surprised if Moore didnt think the same, as they get better, we get better, and they make the step up with us, like Bournemouth did, even if that means not going up right away.

However i understand the downside to that is you cant pick and choose if / when you go up and from the owners point of view they arent bothered about player development, progression, etc they just want to make sure we are back getting £200m a season for being in the premier league.

I think overall with all the above factors, Big Dave is doing a good job of whats asked of him, i do think the biggest mistake he has made is keeping the young players at the club when we were looking at signing experienced players on short team deals, those lads wont play now for a few months and based on last night, they arent good enough yet, they need to be playing reguarly elsewhere, where winning and losing means something.

I would imagine with Dowling coming in now there would hopefully be a bit more long term vision but i do think this seasons is just get up by whatever means possible.

I made the exact same point last night.

There are 5 players at least (Hoolahan, Mears, Barnes, Gayle, Adarabioyo). Add to that the Barry who is almost definitely in his last year and ageing Brunt and Morrison, regardless of whether we go up or not we'll be in a much weaker position next season.

Like you say, don't think DM has been able to much in this respect, with the exception of the Bartley signing, the money of which could've perhaps been used better elsewhere.

Having said that I think his lack of experience counts for something here as some of the more old, wily heads (not necessarily better managers) would've pushed harder for more money/more long-term solution signings.

[Atomic]

Lads I understand the priorities but blatantly not attempting to win the game is not on. Burke and Leko could've come on at 1-0 and given Palace something to think about at least. That wouldn't have compromised the league campaign as neither of figuring but it might, just might have got us an equaliser last night. Instead Darren Moore made three substitutions which had no positive intent at all. Hell, Gayle could've even come on for half an hour or so. What if he got injured? Better not let him train then, just in case.

Excuses, and it's not good enough.

[adamw1109]

Effort? Players did make effort last night. Of all the thibgs we can throw at the., noy trying wasn't one last night.

Did you see myhills poor attempts at diving? Did you not see players passing the ball and the receiver just standing there? Instead of moving towards the ball? Which happened countless times which resulted in us losing possession...Did you not see HRK receiving the ball and just standing there to hold off the defender instead of trying to move with the ball or pass it? Did you not see the amount of times they had the ball and no one attempted to apply any pressure?

That's all lack of effort.

These are professional footballers, some older, some younger, some inexperienced... but everyone on that pitch has the ability to play football... last night that didnt show. Moore gave them a chance and they didn't take it.

[Atomic]

Did you see myhills poor attempts at diving? Did you not see players passing the ball and the receiver just standing there? Instead of moving towards the ball? Which happened countless times which resulted in us losing possession...Did you not see HRK receiving the ball and just standing there to hold off the defender instead of trying to move with the ball or pass it? Did you not see the amount of times they had the ball and no one attempted to apply any pressure?

That's all lack of effort.

These are professional footballers, some older, some younger, some inexperienced... but everyone on that pitch has the ability to play football... last night that didnt show. Moore gave them a chance and they didn't take it.

He always does that. He's absolutely rubbish to be brutally honest.

[FallOutBoy]

For all Moore's more progressive tactics, he does seem like any other dinosaur manager in a lot of respects.

Last night we showed no will to win the game, no intensity at all. To judge the kids on that last night would be like judging them on pre-season games - we were just going through the motions. That's the kind of approach I would expect from Pulis or Pardew, not a young manager looking to make a name for himself. Derby beating Man United will have given the entire club a big lift, and give fans and players more faith in a manager who is still learning.

The lack of trust in the kids is shocking. If they aren't good enough, release them. If they may be good enough but aren't quite ready, ship them out on loan. If they are good enough, give them chance. Field is good enough, Burke has shown flashes that he could be. Instead we sign 30-odd year-old players, because they have 'experience'. It's dispiriting for those who want to see academy players in the team, and it must be extremely dispiriting for young players who thought they would be getting more of a look-in this season.

[WorcsWBA]

The lack of trust in the kids is shocking. If they aren't good enough, release them. If they may be good enough but aren't quite ready, ship them out on loan. If they are good enough, give them chance. Field is good enough, Burke has shown flashes that he could be. Instead we sign 30-odd year-old players, because they have 'experience'. It's dispiriting for those who want to see academy players in the team, and it must be extremely dispiriting for young players who thought they would be getting more of a look-in this season.

All very good points. The suggestion from the way the management team approaching these games is that the young players aren't good enough and it's apparent that many of the older back-ups aren't either. Therefore, once suspensions and injuries kick in (and they will at some point) it doesn't bode well on the face of it. We didn't want to loan the young players out, but we seemingly don't want to put them on the pitch either, and that approach doesn't make much sense really.

Once the season ends, all the loan/free agent players have gone and Brunt, Morrison & Barry will be another year older, we're not going to have an awful lot left that's deemed to be good enough at this level, let alone if we get promoted.

[Albionic]

All very good points. The suggestion from the way the management team approaching these games is that the young players aren't good enough and it's apparent that many of the older back-ups aren't either. Therefore, once suspensions and injuries kick in (and they will at some point) it doesn't bode well on the face of it. We didn't want to loan the young players out, but we seemingly don't want to put them on the pitch either, and that approach doesn't make much sense really.

Once the season ends, all the loan/free agent players have gone and Brunt, Morrison & Barry will be another year older, we're not going to have an awful lot left that's deemed to be good enough at this level, let alone if we get promoted.

This does make you wonder if loaning young players out was simply not a priority in the close season, lets not forget we had Darren & Jenkins and no-one else in place,
Maybe once the squad was filled on a one in- one out basis, then the kids going out would have been seen as next most important job, but as has been clearly shown by the Mears / Hooligan signings this 1st team squad replenishment failed to get completed, and so the kids have become victims of the clubs lack of management resources at that time.
A sad indictment but plausible

[DaveWBA]

For all Moore's more progressive tactics, he does seem like any other dinosaur manager in a lot of respects.

Last night we showed no will to win the game, no intensity at all. To judge the kids on that last night would be like judging them on pre-season games - we were just going through the motions. That's the kind of approach I would expect from Pulis or Pardew, not a young manager looking to make a name for himself. Derby beating Man United will have given the entire club a big lift, and give fans and players more faith in a manager who is still learning.

The lack of trust in the kids is shocking. If they aren't good enough, release them. If they may be good enough but aren't quite ready, ship them out on loan. If they are good enough, give them chance. Field is good enough, Burke has shown flashes that he could be. Instead we sign 30-odd year-old players, because they have 'experience'. It's dispiriting for those who want to see academy players in the team, and it must be extremely dispiriting for young players who thought they would be getting more of a look-in this season.

In recent (and not so recent seasons) we've released or sold Roofe, Wood, Sawyers, Roberts and there have been threads on here throughout the summer questioning these decisions. What do you want the club to do? They can't really win can they.

[seteefeet]

It's not as bad as a lot of people are making out. Ok, we lost a Malibu Cup (or whatever it's called) game to higher league opposition, fielding a weakened side.
The 1st team squad is doing fantastically well in the league and promotion is a real possibility which, for me, is as good as we could have hoped for.
Yes, if we go up, we'll need to rebuild but who doesn't.
We'll still have
Johnstone
Gibbs
Dawson
Bartley
Hegazi
Phillips
Brunt
Livermore
Rodriguez
Hoolahan
Townsend
Mears
Morrison
Burke
Leko
Field
Edwards
Harper

I know that's nowhere near a Prem squad but it's a base and we still have January transfer window so, provided we bring in 1st teamers and not squad players, we could hold our own.

In the meantime, let's just enjoy the ride. We're 3rd in the table and scoring for fun. Life is good.

[17GD]

Then those fans that start turning need a reality check.

PLENTY of teams have proved it's not easy to drop down to the championship then bounce straight back up the next season.

We have an inexperienced manager, with a new assistant trying to play a new style of football with some players that idiots signed who no one else would want and a couple of his own players... mix with that the likes of brunt, morrison, myhill who are clearly not performing to a great level.

This whole 'transition' period doesnt take one season and for people to expect Moore to work miracles then they need to sit back and think first.

Last night he rested our better players for an important game Saturday and gave the second string a chance to prove themselves..... regardless they should be capable of playing football and make effort... which they failed to do last night.

He will make more mistakes I'm sure of that, but for people to moan in September when we are sitting comfortable in the table and being top goalscorers in English football is embarrassing.

Embarrassing?

So fans aren't allowed to express concerns about the future of our club?

The fact is, if we don't get straight back up it will get harder and harder. We have attracted some quality players like Barnes, but if we become a midtable championship side, who will we attract? Generally, we are expected to bounce straight back, we are one of the favourites to go back up.

The problem I have with DM at the moment is he is making glaringly obvious mistakes. Mistakes that a professional shouldn't be making.

My point was that IF we don't go back up, fans may start looking back on some of these mistakes and use them as reasons why he should be replaced. There's no room in football for sentiment.

[FallOutBoy]

In recent (and not so recent seasons) we've released or sold Roofe, Wood, Sawyers, Roberts and there have been threads on here throughout the summer questioning these decisions. What do you want the club to do? They can't really win can they.

I want the club to give them a chance. A real chance, not a perceived chance like last night.

If they are good enough, they'll come on and do well, and become a regular. If they don't, then neither fans nor players can claim that it's just because they haven't been given a chance.

On a wider scale, I'd like to see more trust in young players such as you see in Spain, Germany, et al. It wasn't that long ago England U21's lined up against Germany U21's, and they had four times the amount of first team appearances our lads did. That's a gap that needs closing if the national team and the game is to progress.

[geoff]

Darren took on a impossible job trying to keep us in the prem & almost pulled it off. The job he now faces in trying 1st time to get us back into the prem is far harder for him to achieve but gets the backing of most of us fans/supporters but a large percentage of them must have fears on if he's up to the job based on what we have seen so far
His starting 11 seems to make no sense at times when he keeps playing players out of position even when the game before they looked just has poor.
His subs baffle some of us by taking of players doing a job only to replace them & by doing this our team seems to lose its way.
Its this kind of substitutions that worry me the most.


But on the other hand if he is trying to show Mr. Lai that he needs money for the January window to better the squad it could be a Master Stroke by  him.