[dangerman]

Pub can use foreign decoder for Premier League games

A pub landlady has won the latest stage of her fight to air Premier League games using a foreign TV decoder.

Karen Murphy had to pay nearly £8,000 in fines and costs for using a cheaper Greek decoder in her Portsmouth pub to bypass controls over match screening.

But she took her case to the European Court of Justice.

The ECJ now says national laws which prohibit the import, sale or use of foreign decoder cards are contrary to the freedom to provide services.

The decision could trigger a major shake-up for the Premier League and its current exclusive agreements with Sky Sports and ESPN.

"In practical terms, the Premier League will now have to decide how it wishes to re-tender its rights," said sports media lawyer Daniel Geey of Field Fisher Waterhouse solicitors.

"There can be little doubt it will have contingency plans ready to go and has various options available.

"Be it a pan-EU tender, selling in only certain EU member states or devising a plan to start its own channel, they will be deciding how best to maximise the value of their product to ensure any revenue shortfall is minimised."

However, the ECJ did add that while live matches were not protected by copyright, any surrounding media, such as any opening video sequence, the Premier League anthem, pre-recorded films showing highlights of recent Premier League matches and various graphics, were "works" protected by copyright.

To use any of these parts of a broadcast, a pub would need the permission of the Premier League.

The findings will now go to the High Court in London, which had sent the matter to the ECJ for guidance, for a final ruling.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15162241

Will this effect the way we can legally watch football?

[kris_boing]

I think this could well be an important day for football.

More and more landlords will see this as an opportunity to bring more people into their pubs meaning dwindling gates.

The only thing that football clubs can do is reduce ticket prices but will it be enough?

[RowleyBaggie2]

Hopefully the Sky money falls to pieces and the whole thing comes crashing down so the clubs who have been financially cheating get their just desserts.

[dangerman]

The more I think about it the more I think that this is only going to cost us more in the long run.

If I understand it correctly Sky and ESPN hold all the rights to the premier league games. They then distribute it to other countries like Greece for a very good price. Greece then sells it back to pubs in the UK for a price less than Sky do.

Surely all that will happen is that Sky will bump up the selling price to Greece and other countries meaning the price of having the Greek satellite will shoot up.

Surely Sky still holds all the cards here? Or am I getting the wrong end of the stick?

The only other point is the broadcasting of 3pm games on a Saturday. Does anyone actually know if this is UK law, because my understanding was that a Saturday 3pm kick off was not to be broadcast live within the UK.

Hopefully the Sky money falls to pieces and the whole thing comes crashing down so the clubs who have been financially cheating get their just desserts.

Unfortunately, I think it's going to take something of that nature for football to breathe again. Sadly, it means a few clubs may go to the wall as a result.

[kris_boing]

Sky have had the monopoly for far too long when it comes to football.

They may well have to take the hit on this one.

But that will mean that less money goes to clubs and less end up in the pockets of mercenary players.

I think there will be major problems for clubs that are poorly run and some could well go bust but the ones that have looked after themselves, after the initial shock, will find themselves in a better position.

Short term it will be bad for football but I think in the long run we'll be able to get football on a more even keel.

The European Super League will no doubt come back on the agenda now though.  Wouldnt surpise me if Sky reduce the number of Premier League games shown in order to throw all the money at the European Super League.

[johnny Cash]

People always seem to blame Sky.

The premier league knows that broadcasting the games is worth millions. They therefore set the price at an amount that makes the premier league millions whilst also leaving room for a tv company (e.g sky or espn) to make its margins.

If sky didnt pay it, someone else would as its worth more than the fee they pay.

The premier league will start its own channels if it has too and lease it to companies around the world that agree to abide by its rules which might be that they do not transmit those programs internationally (im sure there are ways and means to do things like that).

[Baggie Artist]

People wanting Sky to fail seriously? I dread to think what percentage of our income comes from TV money and what we'd do if it was cut.

[kris_boing]

People wanting Sky to fail seriously? I dread to think what percentage of our income comes from TV money and what we'd do if it was cut.

The same as every other club should - live within our means.

I long for the day that all (or a large percentage) of the Premier League could win the league by good management, tactics, bringing through young English/British players, talent spotting rather than whoever is bankroled the most wins the League.

Football has become boring and predictable and its seen as a more of an achievement to finish 17th rather than win a domestic cup.  Somethings got to be wrong about that.  Its all down to money these days and that quite simply is down to Sky.

[dangerman]

People wanting Sky to fail seriously? I dread to think what percentage of our income comes from TV money and what we'd do if it was cut.

I think it's more the fact that football is or has lost it's sole and the bottom falling out of it is more of a case of when not if.

Sky have done many great things with TV and for football, it was a novelty to be able to watch all these games in your own front room. Now it is the norm, and we can actually see the things that are wrong and it seems the only solution to repairing football is to lose Sky's involvement.

I would like to think that West Bromwich Albion football club would be ok financially when the stuff hits the fan along with other well run clubs like Wolves etc.

I personally believe that football has been lost for years and it needs something like this to shake it up and maybe even start rebuilding from a low level to get the game back to something like years gone by.

As above, I want to be able to go into a season where anyone in that league has aspirations to win it.

In reality, it's a great shame that one of our most memorable seasons in recent history was the great escape which is often compaired to the promotion in 2002. It shouldn't be like that. In any other industry fourth worst would be seen as a bad year.

[RowleyBaggie2]

I thinks it's the case that SKY is hated because it's all about inconveniencing the active fan to suit armchair fans.

It's wrong, those who go to games are being pulled from pillar to post to accomodate the new age "soccer" fans who wouldn't have been seen dead near a football match pre 1992.

[dangerman]

I thinks it's the case that SKY is hated because it's all about inconveniencing the active fan to suit armchair fans.

It's wrong, those who go to games are being pulled from pillar to post to accomodate the new age "soccer" fans who wouldn't have been seen dead near a football match pre 1992.

I would also add to that the generation (my generation) of some fans that have been created because of Sky that can't see anyother team past the 'big' four.

Kids from the Black Country wearing Villa shirts is bad enough, but kids from the Black Country wearing Man Utd/Arsenal shirts is wrong and Sky need to take some of the blame for that and what they have created.

[Critical Baggie]

Firstly, this is not a thread which is aimed to criticize fans like other threads on here have over the past few months regarding attendances. This thread aims to find a link between the nationwide dilemma in falling attendances (like at the Hawthorns) and the court ruling on foreign channels today.

Many of you might of heard on the news this morning that a pub landlord won a case giving her the right to screen live Premier League matches through foreign channels.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15162241

Also I saw on BBC Midlands Today Wolves Chief Executive, Jez Moxey pin pointing foreign channels as a cause for falling attendances at Molineux this season, an average drop so far of 2,000.   

Has attending a football match lost its appeal?

I myself would much rather be at the Hawthorns than sat in a pub watching it on a screen, I think there is no comparison.

However I understand why people would much rather save the money but still see the game.

I personally think the Premier League is heading into a very tricky time. Attendances are down and foreign channels are airing games which surely makes Sky contracts worthless? Plus the fact its now far too expensive to attend football matches regularly for the common man.

Without TV money the Premier League would surely collapse.

Its interesting how Wolves are responded to this ruling and the feedback from fans regarding a drop in attendances is down to, they are now offering 6 games for £99.

Sky contracts have gone up but attendances have gone down. Why cant clubs afford to cut the prices?

How can football clubs and the Albion in particularity get fans in the gates but at the same time balance the books?

[johnny Cash]

The same as every other club should - live within our means.

I long for the day that all (or a large percentage) of the Premier League could win the league by good management, tactics, bringing through young English/British players, talent spotting rather than whoever is bankroled the most wins the League.

Football has become boring and predictable and its seen as a more of an achievement to finish 17th rather than win a domestic cup.  Somethings got to be wrong about that.  Its all down to money these days and that quite simply is down to Sky.

its not down to sky. its down to the commercial value of football. if sky didnt pay it then somebody else would!

Sky are not paying the amount they are because there is no competition, they are paying what they do because thats the amount it took to win the contract.

[dan7heman]

They have the right to appeal the decision.

I'd wait and see. I guess the sky greasing machine will go into overdrive now and expect this to be overturned.

[BB74]

Where would this leave people such as Tom (D)Ross?

Potentially out of a job if matches are readily and legally available to screen in venues.

[Baggies]

Well it could mean a big shape up. I dont think anyone knows for sure what the eventual outcome will be.

It could be a simple as the Premier League/Sky finding a loophole like the one talking about copyright where they keep putting premier league all over broadcasts and say it is against copyright law but I dont understand that argument as surely The Greek broadcasters have paid for that copy right as well?

Things wont continue as they are and although in the short term this will mean more pubs will play games at 3 pm, it will end when the new contracts come up for negotiation in about 2 season time. Then the premier league may decide to protect their domestic contract by setting up a deal with less matches when selling abroad meaning no 3 pm kick offs sold to broadcasters.

My only worry would be that they decide that teams like Man Utd can sell their own tv rights, or they structure it even more in their favour. Also opens up the possibility of top English teams being more pro European super league.

The big positive that will hopefully come out of this is that pubs end up paying a third or a quarter less than for their tv and that could save them a lot of money which they need in this day and age where I feel many areas of our society are trying to kill off pub culture.

[VVVAlbion]

For me nothing can match the experience of attending a "live" football match and therefore I will not be giving up my season ticket to attend the pub instead.
However, I already go to less and less away matches because of the time and costs involved and this is not likely to get me going to more. If away fans attendances drop, then most of the atmosphere generated in the grounds could also disappear. (Who do you prefer at the Albion - Man U or Fulham?)

 

[Dexy]

How long before Sky try to buy Nova,Tring,ViaSat and the likes if they fail with an appeal?

[j2burnz]

does anybody know where I can buy one of these decoders so I can have one in my front room to watch our away games  (this is a serious question) pm me if you can assist.

[the_mighty_boosh]

Where would this leave people such as Tom (D)Ross?

Potentially out of a job if matches are readily and legally available to screen in venues.

the next best thing to actually being at the game is listening to Bomber on the radio


football has been in pubs for a long time and its been streamed on the net for even longer, it hasnt just happened, the only thing that keeps fans away from games is the price, category pricing, nearly 4 quid for a pint, tea £1.80 for goodness sake
and it can be just as expensive in the pub!

[smethwickbaggie23]

im slightly confused by how this works. isnt it just the case that you buy a decoder and point your dish towards another satellite which is used by these foreign companies thus getting the live games. i dont understand why these countries are allowed to screen our 3pm games for free?

Nothing will ever beat being at the game live, but i understand with people having mortgages to pay and families to provide for, £30 a game cant be justified. It doesnt make them any less of a fan. A standard away game sets you back £100 easily. times are hard.

I'd love a return to the old days where you could go to the game for an affordable price and if you cant watch it you listen to it on the radio and wait for the highlights on the news or motd in the night. But theres too much money to be made for this to ever happen again. Sky pay the billion or so and easily make it back. The government wont intervene as the more money in football the more money they make (e.g higher footballer wages = more taxes)....

i just want it to all impode so we go back to basics. so football is given back to the common man in the street. so we can all enjoy it again.

[WSBaggie]

does anybody know where I can buy one of these decoders so I can have one in my front room to watch our away games  (this is a serious question) pm me if you can assist.

Haha there's always one 

[gerry m]

cannot see sky letting this lady get away with this! prehaps rupert will get his missus to visit her pub and give her a right hander

[albion59]

I thinks it's the case that SKY is hated because it's all about inconveniencing the active fan to suit armchair fans.

It's wrong, those who go to games are being pulled from pillar to post to accomodate the new age "soccer" fans who wouldn't have been seen dead near a football match pre 1992.

that is an excellent reply and spot on.

[Political Cake]

the next best thing to actually being at the game is listening to Bomber on the radio

Even if it's on tv at times, I'll still find myself hooked towards the radio..