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AlbionFan

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Project Big Picture
« on: October 11, 2020, 05:00:12 PM »
I believe that this topic is so important it needs its own thread.

Perhaps the mods can move posts from the Premier League thread to here.

My initial post

John Percy Twitter Account

World exclusive: Man Utd and Liverpool driving 'Project Big Picture' - football’s biggest shake-up in a generation.

The full Telegraph article, sorry in advance for the length of this post

World exclusive: Man Utd and Liverpool driving 'Project Big Picture' - football’s biggest shake-up in a generation
18-team Premier League, increased EFL funding and axing of League Cup among raft of proposals in 'Revitalisation' document seen by Telegraph

Manchester United and Liverpool are the driving force behind the biggest changes to English football in a generation and an extraordinary overhaul of the Premier League, The Daily Telegraph can reveal.
The two clubs have worked together on a radical set of proposals – called “Project Big Picture” - that will reshape the finances of the game. The Premier League, the most lucrative sports league in the world, would see a reduction to 18 teams, and controlling power in the hands of the biggest clubs.
In return for tearing up many of the rules that have governed the game since the Premier League’s inception in 1992 there will be £250 million rescue package to the Football League to see them through the Covid crisis.
The Daily Telegraph can reveal the details of the working document “Revitalisation” authored by Liverpool’s American ownership Fenway Sports Group with support from United. It anticipates the backing of the other members of the so-called big six, Manchester City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Tottenham Hotspur.
In a remarkable set of proposals, which will send shockwaves through the game, 25 per cent of the Premier League’s annual revenue will go to the EFL clubs with £250 million paid up front to see them through the current crisis. There would also be a gift of £100 million to sustain the Football Association.
However, there would be an abolition of the one-club, one-vote principle that has sustained the Premier League since its inception as well as the abolition of the threshold of 14 votes to pass any decision or regulation change.
Under the new proposals, the League Cup and the Community Shield would be abolished. There have been additional discussions that the League Cup would survive but without the participation of the clubs in Europe.
There would be two automatic promotion places for Championship clubs, but the third, fourth and fifth placed clubs would be in a play-off tournament with the 16th placed Premier League club.
The nine clubs who have been in the Premier League for the longest - which includes the big six - would dictate its running in every aspect and would be free to play more games in the expanded Champions League that is anticipated from the 2024-2025 season onwards.
As well as the Premier League dropping from 20 clubs to 18, there would be 24 in each of the Championship, League One and League Two making a total of 90.
The plan is supported by the EFL chairman Rick Parry who has held talks with Liverpool’s principal owner, the American investor John W Henry, and shareholder and director Mike Gordon. In addition, Parry has spoken to the Glazer family, who own United.
The talks began in 2017 but have been accelerated since the coronavirus pandemic has thrust football into the grip of crisis with no fans in stadiums until March at the earliest. Liverpool and United are prepared for a fierce debate over their proposals but they want them implemented as soon as possible.
The Revitalisation document calls for immediate action to cut dramatically what it calls the “revenue chasm” in earnings from television contracts between the Premier League and the EFL. In order to discourage Championship clubs from gambling recklessly on promotion, the parachute payments system would be abolished in favour of the 25 per cent share of Premier League revenue being shared more equitably among EFL clubs.
Under proposals for the new model of distribution of television revenue in the Premier League, Fenway, the driving force behind the document, insist there would be no greater share for the top six. Their stated aim is to eliminate the huge gap in earnings between Premier League and EFL clubs while in return having a greater control of the decisions made by the Premier League.
The document says: “A reset of the economics and governance of the English football pyramid is long overdue”.
The proposals also rewrite the Premier League’s 20-club democracy in favour of placing huge power in the hands of the nine clubs with the longest continual stay in the division. As things stand that is the big six, as well as Everton, Southampton and West Ham. Those nine clubs afforded “long-term shareholder status” would have unprecedented power, with the votes of just six of them required to make sweeping changes. These clubs would even be able to veto a new owner taking over a rival club.
In an exclusive interview with The Daily Telegraph, Parry said that he had the support of many of his 72 members, many currently facing financial ruin, to go ahead with the plan. He said: “What do we do? Leave it exactly as it is and allow the smaller clubs to wither? Or do we do something about it? And you can’t do something about it without something changing. And the view of our clubs is if the [big] six get some benefits but the 72 also do, we are up for it.”
He accepted there would be opposition from the Premier League clubs outside the big six who would see it as detrimental to their financial prospects with less money and two fewer places in the top flight.
“It is definitely going to be challenging and it is an enormous change so that won’t be without some pain,” Parry said: “Do I genuinely think it’s for the greater good of the game as a whole? Absolutely. And if the [big] six are deriving some benefit then why shouldn’t they. Why wouldn’t they put their names to this otherwise?”
The proposals include:
•   Â£250 million immediately to the EFL to compensate its clubs for lost matchday revenue, deducted from future television revenue earnings and financed by a loan taken out by the Premier League
•   Special status for the nine longest serving clubs – and the vote of only six of those “long-term shareholders” required to make major changes, including amending rules and regulations, agreeing contracts, removal of the chief executive, and a wide-ranging veto including on club ownership
•   Premier League to go to 18 clubs from 20
•   Â£100 million one-off gift to the FA to cover its coronavirus losses, the non-league game, the women’s game, the grassroots
•   8.5 per cent of annual net Premier League revenue to go on operating costs and “good causes” including the FA
•   From the remainder, 25 per cent of all combined Premier League and Football League revenues to go to the EFL clubs
•   Six per cent of Premier League gross revenues to pay for stadium improvements across the top four divisions, calculated at £100 per seat
•   New rules for the distribution of Premier League television income, overseas and domestic, including proposals that base one portion on performance over three years in the league
•   The abolition of the League Cup and the Community Shield
•   24 clubs each in the Championship, League One and League Two reducing the professional game overall from 92 clubs to 90
•   A women's professional league independent of the Premier League or the FA
•   Two sides automatically relegated from the Premier League every season and the top two Championship teams promoted. The 16th place Premier League club in a play-off tournament with the Championship’s third, fourth and fifth placed teams.
•   Financial fair play regulations in line with Uefa, and full access for Premier League executive to club accounts
•   A fan charter including capping of away tickets at £20, away travel subsidised, a focus on a return to safe standing, a minimum away allocation of eight per cent capacity
•   Later Premier League start in August to give greater scope for pre-season friendlies, and requirement for all clubs to compete once every five years in a summer Premier League tournament
•   Huge changes to loan system allowing clubs to have 15 players out on loan domestically at any one time and up to four at a single club in England
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 05:02:06 PM by AlbionFan »
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AlbionFan

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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2020, 05:00:37 PM »
The Football Supporters Association initial response to "Project Big Picture"

Source: https://thefsa.org.uk/news/fsa-statement-response-to-media-reports-on-project-big-picture/
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AlbionFan

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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2020, 05:03:39 PM »
A quick read of "Project Big Picture" it is enticing, but it appears to me that football would be selling it's soul for 12 pieces of  silver to a powerful and elite quango forever.

Nine clubs would dictate the future of everything in English football is not a health state of affairs imo

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TheJacko2000

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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2020, 05:09:23 PM »
Don't see how this possibly gets the 14 votes it would need.
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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2020, 05:11:03 PM »
Think this would be the end of my interest in football at this level. As Jacko said can't see it being supported enough either.

dangerman

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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2020, 05:16:19 PM »
Don't see how this possibly gets the 14 votes it would need.

Lots of brown envelopes I would imagine.

AlbionFan

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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2020, 05:18:30 PM »
Money will talk if fans don't make a stand and make it the "Big Issue"

They already have a near guaranteed 9 votes and only require 5 more
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Albionic

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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2020, 05:26:18 PM »
Deluded of Wilton will be another HUGE CLUB to join in for sure
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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2020, 05:28:01 PM »
Deluded of Wilton will be another HUGE CLUB to join in for sure

Why? They get no benefits. And by rights if West Ham and Southampton are included then Villa should be in it ahead of Manchester City.
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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2020, 05:34:41 PM »
Another organisation hell bent on killing itself off it's football Jim but not as we know it.

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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2020, 05:37:53 PM »
To be fair football has been pants sice the inception of the Premier league in my opinion. I love watching the big match on itv 4  from the 70's where 14 teams at least had a chance. Remember Ipswich at the top of the league, Man Utd being relegated, it was so much more enjoyable and even. I get the sense even the players enjoyed it more. I don't say this because West Brom don't really feature, I just think football is past its sell by date.
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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2020, 05:41:18 PM »
Another organisation hell bent on killing itself off it's football Jim but not as we know it.
If the fans don't put their money in (to Sky etc.) those big teams will not survive.
The Big picture teams will have no-one to blame but their own greed.


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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2020, 05:58:48 PM »
Okay I can agree on one thing which is beyond dispute that as it currently stands football in England is a mess and regardless of Coronavirus it cannot carry on as before. One of it's many financial issues is the revenue chasm between the the EFL and the Premier League.

These proposals might fix this issue and throw the game outside of the Premier League a lifeline but it ushers in a new era which is not at all beneficial for the game as a whole and pretty much hands the keys to the big 6 as a permanent fixture. In theory they could be relegated through the leagues be playing in the 4th tier of English football and still be largely running the English game.

It is significant that the one financial gulf nobody seems to keen to address is the one that exists between the top 6 and the rest of the Premier League.

I would be more than happy to restructure the way football is run but the likes of Liverpool and Man United wouldn't like it one little bit
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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2020, 06:01:23 PM »
To be fair football has been pants sice the inception of the Premier league in my opinion. I love watching the big match on itv 4  from the 70's where 14 teams at least had a chance. Remember Ipswich at the top of the league, Man Utd being relegated, it was so much more enjoyable and even. I get the sense even the players enjoyed it more. I don't say this because West Brom don't really feature, I just think football is past its sell by date.
Agreed, slowly but surely I have watched less and less football through sheer boredom ,I follow news on the Albion
 via the internet that's the extent of my involement in football.

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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2020, 06:11:09 PM »
The power of veto for the big boys over new owners for other clubs is ludicrous!
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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2020, 06:13:34 PM »
I forgot to mention also, that the first real nail in football hit home for me when Roy Keane (through no fault of his) started earning 50k a week which was about 3 times as much as I earned in a year then! I understand everything about a short career, injuries etc but. I don't know how anybody can substantiate some of the wages today, and don't get me started on agents!
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Standaman

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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #16 on: October 11, 2020, 06:28:48 PM »
The Government has come out against the proposal. 

I would add that without some help from somewhere EFL clubs will start to fold by Christmas
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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #17 on: October 11, 2020, 06:28:59 PM »
At least footballers are the ones who do the actual work.  If footballers didn't get the money then it would be people like Lai.

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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2020, 06:38:11 PM »
surely this breaches competition law, as it would be a cartel running the industry.

Business Legal beagle required !
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gazberg

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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2020, 06:51:37 PM »
EFL released a statement. As part of the changes the rule that 14 clubs need to approve a change would be scrapped.

So the top 6 are planning to take full control of the entire league using 250m of the top 6 money only or 250m from  across the 20 teams in the PL?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2020, 07:00:49 PM by gazberg »

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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2020, 07:00:01 PM »
Need Huddersfield to call Parry out tomorrow morning. Judas needs to lose his job. To name check on of your own clubs to support one from another organisation? F*** you Parry, you're a disgrace.

It is tiresome having to constantly fight off the ultra capitalist big 6, but if we don't fight they win.

Hard to see a scenario where this wins. The EFL might support it out of short term desperation but the premier league won't.

Liverpool fans sang "Oh Jeremy Corbyn" at games in 2019 and had various anti tory banners at games. They stand up to their owners when it affects Scousers. Lets see if they show they are real socialists now, when they have a real chance.
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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2020, 07:03:14 PM »
Telegraph Football Twitter Account

Backlash against new proposals as government, Premier League and FSA oppose top-flight overhaul.

Government, Premier League and Football Supporters Association hit out at plans saying they would harm the national game
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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2020, 07:21:14 PM »
Need Huddersfield to call Parry out tomorrow morning. Judas needs to lose his job. To name check on of your own clubs to support one from another organisation? F*** you Parry, you're a disgrace.

It is tiresome having to constantly fight off the ultra capitalist big 6, but if we don't fight they win.

Hard to see a scenario where this wins. The EFL might support it out of short term desperation but the premier league won't.

Liverpool fans sang "Oh Jeremy Corbyn" at games in 2019 and had various anti tory banners at games. They stand up to their owners when it affects Scousers. Lets see if they show they are real socialists now, when they have a real chance.
What a fantastic question! I hope you are not holding your breath.

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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2020, 09:49:35 PM »
If this gets passed, it will help destroy top competitive football in this country. The fact its being proposed by Man U and Liverpool makes me instantly suspicious. Presumably they don't think they are rich enough comparative to other clubs.

Reducing the Prem to 18 clubs will make it even more difficult for clubs the size of Albion to sustain a position in it. The gap between the top league and the rest will become more like a chasm. It will be virtually impossible to compete against the 'big clubs'. Beating the likes of Man U etc will become more and more like distant memories.

The fact there are Americal owners involved also makes me suspicious they eventually want to scrap promotion and relegation like in the NFL.  You kill the lifeblood of the game in so doing. And the Prem League probably becomes no more competitive than the Scottish.   
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Re: Project Big Picture
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2020, 10:11:24 PM »
The game is in desperate need of reform it simply cannot continue unreformed.

Project Big Picture is beyond flawed but right now there isn't there isn't anything else on the table. 

No doubt the Premier League will veto in it's current format.  Too many of the members fear it will be them dropped when it comes to culling 2 current members from the cast. Yet to some degree it makes the point that the decision making by 2 thirds majority is cumbersome particularly were there is divergent self interest.

If not Project Big Picture or something similar then what? We aren't going to return to a bygone era.



   

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