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Messages - johnny Cash

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West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Matheus Pereira
« on: Today at 11:54:07 AM »
£30m is pretty much the lowest amount people have said. You’ve said pretty much the highest. Think about why you can’t comprehend £30m and you might start understand why people don’t understand your £90m

Ollie Watkins was a deal up to £28m I believe. I think Nathan Ake is the record for a relegated side at £40m.   

Your arguments for £90 have been the World Cup winning, 4 Serie A titles in a row sale of Pogba, and probably someone view as one of the top 5 players in the world at the time, going from one champions league side to another, Eden Hazard. 

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Sam Allardyce
« on: Today at 11:47:01 AM »
I suspect the issue would have been the same a lot of his public pronouncements concerning his future have been for consumption in the dressing room where he did not want to be seen as a dead duck manager.

Equally he might regard Premier League football as worth the stress and then the question is does he want to do one more season and bow out or commit (in his mind if not contractually) to two a promotion and one last hurrah in the Premier League?

No I'm rubbish at voodoo as Pulis is still going strong despite my best work with the voodoo doll for over 2 years.

I hadn’t considered your first point actually and you could be right actually. He certainly knows how to play those types of games and Id agree the players did probably need to believe he was here to stay.

It’s that ability to play those games that make me cynical though.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Matheus Pereira
« on: Today at 11:35:08 AM »
I almost give up on the negativity of Albion supporters.  Embracing mediocrity, then when we do have a superstar failing to recognise their true quality.  Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

I don't know what people are watching? 

The fact Grealish plays with better players than Pereira is massively significant, in the same way De Bruyne plays in an excellent Man City side.

Brentford managed to extract £28m for Ollie Watkins, of course Pereira is only worth £2m more.

You think Albion fans are at the extreme of a spectrum and that pretty much you alone seem to sit in the middle.

I’m sorry to say that I think it’s you thats at the extreme end.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Sam Allardyce
« on: Today at 10:30:33 AM »
I want SA to stay but i'm a bit skeptical about the health concerns and whether that is the truth for his deliberation.

I'm not sure how another relegation battle was likely to be less stressful than a championship promotion push and there didnt seem to be any suggestion he would have considered his position had we stayed up.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Matheus Pereira
« on: Today at 10:23:07 AM »
The Grealish Pereira comparison wouldnt work even if the goals and asssit numbers were identical.

Grealish is a boyhood Villa Fan.
Villa haven't been relegated.
Grealish is English.

Those, particularly the second point affect value. Relegation affects your ability to keep a player and their value.   

Beyond the stats Grealish is better than Pereira which my be unpopular on here but its true.  he stats don't show how much Grealish drags the villa forward and has done for about three years.

Pereira may have started to do that but it has only been since January.

Who are the best players that have stayed with relegated teams in the championship? 

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Matheus Pereira
« on: Today at 08:13:18 AM »
Not being funny but it's a lot harder to do what Pereira has done surrounded by mediocre players.  The more i see the more i think WBA fans don't truly appreciate what he's achieved in the 2 seasons.  Will go down as an Albion great even if sold in 2 months time. 

Did you see Pogba tonight?  £95m for that! 

Someone like Zaha has been good for Palace for 3 or 4 seasons but has regressed this season, outshone by Eze.  Pereira has more than proved himself in the Premier.

You’ve brought up players like Pogba and Hazards form a few times but forget what they moved off the back off. If anything it proves that nothing is guaranteed and why there’s absolutely zero chance pereira goes for £90m.

There’s then some odd comparison that seems to suggest 3 good months from Pereira is better than four years from Zaha. (Who hasn’t really Been outdone by Eze he’s just the new kid on the block).

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: New Manager Thread
« on: May 12, 2021, 03:33:22 PM »
I don’t understand the shouts for Lampard personally and why it would be ambitious.

The media have created the rhetoric that he did a great job at Derby. He didn’t. He finished 6th. He did no more than ok and had players like Harry Wilson, Mason Mount and Tomori. 

He then got the Chelsea job purely because he was an ex player, spent hundreds of millions and got sacked.

It hard to see how is next job isn’t back in the championship.

He may be able to get some Chelsea kids again, is that really suitable criteria?

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: New Manager Thread
« on: May 11, 2021, 10:23:04 PM »
Enzo could go on to be a great manager, we just don’t know.   

I’d agree it’s a gamble we can’t afford to take though. Arteta should be enough to show doing well in a role at city doesn’t mean you’ll be an instant success elsewhere and we do need early success next year. I doubt there would be any calls for him if he wasn’t an ex-player.

I was pro allardyce staying anyway, but that list makes me more so.  At one point Potter was rumoured to be under threat and I’d have snapped him up if he had been dismissed but I suspect he was never really in danger. 

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Sam Allardyce
« on: May 10, 2021, 07:26:27 PM »
I don’t understand this particular rule but I do abide by it.

However if a manager is knowingly out of contract and will not comment on his own future I’d say this is different to a manager being under pressure because of results or just disliked. 

It would seem part of a reasonable discussion to touch on alternatives in this instance. Just my two pence

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Sam Allardyce
« on: May 10, 2021, 06:38:14 PM »
Everything Allardyce comes out with is a game of expectation management to place himself in the best possible spotlight. We lost our first four home games under him 0-3, 0-5, 0-4 & 0-5 - the team looked completely broken then, but that was Allardyce's immediate impact on the team and truly a new low. The players at that stage clearly didn't agree with his coaching or tactics and struggled to buy into what he asked them to do, as it was the opposite approach of Bilic - who they enjoyed playing for, even when we got found out at this level.

How on earth have you concluded that they enjoyed losing for Bilic but didn’t for Allardyce? Seems like speculation to me.

They may well have been sulking a little after Bilic left but I would suspect they’ve enjoyed the last 10 games far more than the first 10.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Charlie Austin loaned to QPR
« on: May 10, 2021, 10:45:12 AM »
We won’t trigger it,  although CA will know his next contract is now probably closer to his Swindon contract than his largest.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Matheus Pereira
« on: May 09, 2021, 10:36:20 PM »
I said £25m a few months ago but with his end of season run of form I would be hoping he has pushed his own price up now.

I think Nathan Ake is the record sale out of the championship (sale from a relegated club) and that was a reported £40m. So I think £35m would seem about right post COVID but it’ll need a few interested parties to help us push it towards that.

General Football & Sports / Re: Boxing Thread
« on: May 09, 2021, 12:57:46 PM »
I thought Billy Joe was doing well at the time, definitely had him winning the middle rounds. Then Canelo caught him with a right that looks like it broke Saunders eye and he couldn't see after that. Retired on his stool.

He put up a better effort than Callum Smith did against Canelo anyway.

Canelo is hard as iron.

BJS was doing well enough I agree, but it always felt like Canelo was going to step up a gear and finish the fight.  The only way BJS could win was points and while watching I never felt he was going to last the distance.

General Football & Sports / Re: Boxing Thread
« on: May 09, 2021, 10:54:43 AM »
Great to see Canelo beat BJS even if it was expected.  Canelo might be a drugs cheat but he’s a wonderful fighter. BJS has ability but is just a horrible human.

General Football & Sports / Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« on: May 08, 2021, 02:20:17 PM »
In the Blackburn game Adam Armstrong has back to back home hatricks. Toney will get all the attention but Armstrong has had a great season for a very average Blackburn.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Sam Allardyce
« on: May 05, 2021, 03:51:39 PM »
Think I would take issue with the sentence in bold being a lazy argument.

SA was employed to keep us up & (baring a miracle) he has failed, had he succeeded, undoubtedly his tenure would have been extended.

The fact that he failed allows the football club to revue their position & look for the best way forward.

Personally, I'm on the same page as Stan, if it were my FC, I'd look towards a re-build with a much stronger structure, which would be more attractive to a buyer.

From commentators who know the Chinese political scene well, it looks as though GL is under some considerable pressure to get rid. So it's likely that we'll end up with a cobbled together, lowest possible cost, sticking plaster solution. I couldn't think of another manager better equipped to deliver that than SA.

Sam Allardyce was employed to ‘try’ and keep us up. It’s an important distinction. I very much doubt he ever made any guarantees.

Unfortunately until he was able to change some personnel he found it difficult. I think given the position we were in and how bad we were, the majority of managers would have struggled, good and bad.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Mbaye Diagne
« on: May 05, 2021, 12:31:43 PM »
If we were going to throw £8m at a striker this summer I'd be heading down to Peterborough to offer it up for Jonson Clarke-Harris.

If he was 2-3 years younger I would agree. A lot of his goals are quite nice, neat finishes. Its the strikers in league one who rack up numbers through scrappy, mishits, scrambles or brute force that you need to avoid because those type of opportunities get fewer and fewer as you go up the divisions.

I think at 27 this summer though, £8m is way too much. 

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Sam Allardyce
« on: May 05, 2021, 12:21:41 PM »
It as if people think we decide how the game will go and the opposition have no say in it.

Opposition performance
The way the opening 5 minutes of a match go and who grabs the initiative.

All things that could make a game plan in any individual match silly or ill thought out. He judged the situation and made a change. Most managers wouldn't have. We still conceded after the change but it was still the right call. 

The 'he was employed to keep us up and won't so he's failed and should go' is also such a lazy argument I'm struggling for the inclination to argue with it in any depth.

Liam's post is fantastic. We are much improved under Allardyce, the results are much better and for me at least he inspires confidence that he will take us in the right direction. I do share some of Stan's reservations about problems he could leave us with, but that up to Dowling (unfortunately) to manage him and keep a bigger picture in mind.

SA will no doubt want some assurances for next season, like he did for this but it doesn't seem like he was overly unreasonable since he only got 3 loans and free transfer with at least some money coming back in from moving Krov and Austin out.


West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Sam Johnstone
« on: May 05, 2021, 08:41:22 AM »
I’ve no problem with the message being £20m but there’s a very limited market so I don’t think we will get. 

Burnley if Pope goes
Man Utd if De Gea goes

Those are four I’ve seen credited with an interest.

Townsend was bad because he’s a limited footballer. It’s as if all his effort went in to just keeping it down but it wasn’t an easy chance.

Gallagher has to score though.

I don’t think Allardyce set us up defensively as such, I think that’s just how it transpired and it’s why he’s changed it.

Bartley shouldn’t have made a challenge and SJ should have saved it - Is that really what people believe?

We have to try and get on the front second half which I’m hoping will see us get a lot better. It can’t get much worse. 

Ajayi is a strange footballer. Has all the attributes but is just a disaster of a centre half. He is quite deceptive as it’s not always obvious why he’s so poor.

O’Shea and Bartley is a much better option than Ajayi with either. If we sell Bartley we need another centre half. 

I can only assume O Sheas the one to go since Ajayi can keep up with Traore

General Football & Sports / Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« on: May 03, 2021, 05:33:42 PM »
A group of fans did try to buy the club but the Glazers put an unrealistic valuation on the club.

Yes they can put prices up but it has to be done at realistic levels not like I think 30% it was when they took over despite promising not to be putting them up.

It was massively different before and the money now involved has good and bad parts to it, normal folk like me and you are not really wanted by the top level clubs anymore, they want the money from tv rights overseas. They couldn't give a toss whether we go or not as gate receipts mean nothing these days and the majority of us won't bother with the club shop on a match day whereas the tourists will pack it out week in week out.

When ‘United fans’ tried to buy it the glaziers valued the club at 1.6bn and the ‘fans’ had £1bn. I put fans in inverted commas because how they had £1bn who knows. I’d suggest it was just a more fan friendly investor

Conservative estimates suggest it’s now worth 3bn, so they were offered a bargain really.

Pandora is out the box, you can’t put it back. The Germans had it right by locking the box in the first place.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Long Term Plan
« on: May 03, 2021, 11:26:08 AM »
As part of our long term planning Id stop giving seemingly blanket 100% increases in salaries for promotion as well as a big bonus.

We are probably going to be one of the highest payers in the championship on average anyway and players are happy signing in the first place. We should run a scheme where they have a championship wage. 50% increase for promotion and a further 50% for staying up in year one.  .

This idea of automatically double your money for doing your job is silly. As a favourite with parachute money it shouldn’t be needed to incentivise the right players to join.

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