Author Topic: Valérien Ismaël leaves WBA  (Read 463594 times)

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Fritzl Palace

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #625 on: September 16, 2021, 09:43:39 AM »
I cannot say that I have enjoyed the last two games, but the overreaction to them has been quite staggering really. Could not believe the boos that I heard at half time and full time the other night  :-X

We (at the time) were top of the league and unbeaten this season in seven games in a league that is, quite frankly, mental. We had one awful performance against Milwall who turned up and did a job on us and a poor half against Derby but there were certainly plenty of positives from the second half in that match.

I think we have to factor in that our squad is decent at this level, but it is hardly amazing, Livermore is still bumbling around in the midfield offering absolutely nothing, Furlong is a terrible footballer who is better with head and hands than his feet, we do not have a recognised central striker of note and, with the injuries in defence, we are down to playing a lower Championship at best standard left back at centre back. Compare it to Fulham's squad and it is chalk and cheese, the amount of options they have as well as a proven, international quality centre forward, they have invested and we, as ever, have not.

Keep the faith chaps.


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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #626 on: September 16, 2021, 10:01:24 AM »
Austin most likely wouldn't have been in that position though, he's not a RWB.

In fact, none of the chances fell to forwards and that's something that needs addressing. When we started playing football, our two best finishers were not on the pitch.
If we continue to play like we did second half, from the start, when the likes of Grant and/or Robinson are on, they will score.

As it was, we could still have won comfortably, barring an excellent/jammy goalkeeping performance and poor finishing.
If we had carried on in the same vein, in the second half, then I could fully understand all the criticism, but, for me the changes we made, at half time, render the "lack of Plan B" argument moot. The second half was Plan B and, if we'd have took one of the many chances, it would have worked.
I agree with much of what you said, but am struggling with the idea that you and some others have stated that Grant is one of our best two goalscorers/finishers. He's scored just twice for us in approaching 30 appearances now, so whatever he once did for Huddersfield, he's very clearly not doing it for us and that's despite him being played this season in his favourite position. Hugill has a significantly better scoring record than that, as do some of our central defenders!

Grant needs to step up quickly or we should switch Diangana to that side. Valerien won't keep playing anyone who isn't pulling their weight, although I do have a little concern that it doesn't necessarily apply to Livermore. I was also surprised that it was Snodgrass (who's out of contract at the end of the season), rather than Molumby who came on on Tuesday. As we've been stuttering a bit, I think it's time for us to see what Molumby can bring to the party.

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #627 on: September 16, 2021, 10:13:06 AM »
........we are down to playing a lower Championship at best standard left back at centre back.....

I hope you've got a tin hat. Atomic's going up like a mushroom cloud when he reads this descriptor of the pert buttocked one  ;D .
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Fritzl Palace

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #628 on: September 16, 2021, 10:14:14 AM »
I hope you've got a tin hat. Atomic's going up like a mushroom cloud when he reads this descriptor of the pert buttocked one  ;D .

The tin hat is always primed and ready when posting on here  ;D

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #629 on: September 16, 2021, 10:15:54 AM »
I for one am concerned over the style of football we have seen so far , some of the passing and hacking is almost non league at times from players we know can do better . The attacking stats can say what they like but lofting balls into keepers hand or defenders heads isn't good enough at all for me , I also believe VI is too quick to make big changes with the forward three ....Grant's not doing enough lets see if he starts at Preston.
All that said it is early still and too soon to get carried away just yet either way , its a project so will need time. (and a real forward ;D )
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seteefeet

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #630 on: September 16, 2021, 10:34:26 AM »
I agree with much of what you said, but am struggling with the idea that you and some others have stated that Grant is one of our best two goalscorers/finishers. He's scored just twice for us in approaching 30 appearances now, so whatever he once did for Huddersfield, he's very clearly not doing it for us and that's despite him being played this season in his favourite position. Hugill has a significantly better scoring record than that, as do some of our central defenders!

Grant needs to step up quickly or we should switch Diangana to that side. Valerien won't keep playing anyone who isn't pulling their weight, although I do have a little concern that it doesn't necessarily apply to Livermore. I was also surprised that it was Snodgrass (who's out of contract at the end of the season), rather than Molumby who came on on Tuesday. As we've been stuttering a bit, I think it's time for us to see what Molumby can bring to the party.
Grant was better in the early games though, to be fair, so if we can play like we did second half when he's on the pitch, he can have no excuses.
I'd still rather him on the end of a cross than Furlong.  ;)

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #631 on: September 16, 2021, 10:42:40 AM »
Amnesia seems to be a perennial problem for football fans. I always find comments like "Its the worst game of football for the last 30 years" or "its worse than anything under______ quite amusing". I have sat through so many terrible games over the years under lots of our managers (Gould, Little, Buckley, Robson, Pulis, Pardew etc)
We are clearly not playing that well at the moment but Val has managed us for 8 competitive games and in the league we are unbeaten.

There it is! The old I was around in the Buckley era argument etc. Doesn't take away from the fact that the last 3 performances have been poor and certainly don't reflect promotion form

seteefeet

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #632 on: September 16, 2021, 10:53:55 AM »
There it is! The old I was around in the Buckley era argument etc. Doesn't take away from the fact that the last 3 performances have been poor and certainly don't reflect promotion form
We've taken 5 points from those 3 games though, which, extrapolated over 46 games, equates to roughly 77 points which would usually get you into the top 6.
I agree we've been sub-par but it's far from crisis point.
The second half suggests that VI has taken stock of the issue so, hopefully, we will see further improvement on Saturday.

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #633 on: September 16, 2021, 10:56:20 AM »
I hope you've got a tin hat. Atomic's going up like a mushroom cloud when he reads this descriptor of the pert buttocked one  ;D .

Ha ha.

No. There's no accounting for people and their opinions, prejudices or agendas.

Mind you, it's nice that Townsend has progressed from being "league one level".  ;)

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #634 on: September 16, 2021, 10:59:41 AM »
Really, you never celebrated a win under Pulis?  The Millwall game was as bad as anything under Pulis.
No I genuinely never celebrated a win under Pulis. As far as I was concerned, it was the dark ages for us regardless of the result. I haven't looked at the stats, but others have stated what we had about 25 shots against Derby on Tuesday - we'd be lucky to get that in total in 4 games when Pulis was here!

Fritzl Palace

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #635 on: September 16, 2021, 11:00:32 AM »
Ha ha.

No. There's no accounting for people and their opinions, prejudices or agendas.

Mind you, it's nice that Townsend has progressed from being "league one level".  ;)

See, I was giving him credit, he has definitely improved in the past couple of seasons, he just remains very limited. Not sure you can call it an agenda really, it is just someone who has watched a lot of football forming an opinion. He is better than Furlong...does that help?

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #636 on: September 16, 2021, 11:03:00 AM »
There it is! The old I was around in the Buckley era argument etc. Doesn't take away from the fact that the last 3 performances have been poor and certainly don't reflect promotion form

6 games in.  Really! 

Playing way below how well you can play and still not losing does in fact reflect promotion form, don't it?

We all know there are far better performances in the team, and we are making a lot of shooting opportunities.  Take a few and see what that does.

Criticism is fine, and if constructive is helpful, but judging a team and a manager on the first 6 games of a completely new system, and condemning a new player after his first kick and something you've read or heard on 'social meeja' is just meaningless.

Come on! Remember this is West Bromwich Albion we support, not Blowing the Big Bucks Billybolax.

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #637 on: September 16, 2021, 11:05:46 AM »
There it is! The old I was around in the Buckley era argument etc. Doesn't take away from the fact that the last 3 performances have been poor and certainly don't reflect promotion form

I generally respond in conversations to the actual questions posted rather than hypotheticals. The comments were “this is worse than anything Pulis served up” and in the match day thread “worse game I’ve seen in 40 years”. I stated we have amnesia because Buckley, Pardew etc were less than 40 years ago and we had games under Pulis that were atrocious. Also to make a comment like that you have to go back  through every game.....
We were Absolutely terrible against Milwall, I was pointing out how those comments always get thrown out with very little evidence....

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #638 on: September 16, 2021, 11:07:15 AM »
See, I was giving him credit, he has definitely improved in the past couple of seasons, he just remains very limited. Not sure you can call it an agenda really, it is just someone who has watched a lot of football forming an opinion. He is better than Furlong...does that help?

God how I hate statistics: But does anybody have any comparison stats for the two of em? I wouldnt think they are too far apart, and both have improved.

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #639 on: September 16, 2021, 11:36:40 AM »
No I genuinely never celebrated a win under Pulis. As far as I was concerned, it was the dark ages for us regardless of the result. I haven't looked at the stats, but others have stated what we had about 25 shots against Derby on Tuesday - we'd be lucky to get that in total in 4 games when Pulis was here!
Not to derail the VI topic but lets not forget Pulis came to us with Boro and stuck 3 past us and could have been 5 that day , he took 6 points off us that season too  :o .
I'm all for a new direction , as stated it's too early to judge but Millwall , Peterborough and 45 mins against Derby was classic Pulis in many ways . Lofted balls to nobody or straight on a defenders head are not progressive football traits , we play 3 fowards so we need to be using width and threaded balls imo .
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seteefeet

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #640 on: September 16, 2021, 12:12:45 PM »

6 games in.  Really! 

Playing way below how well you can play and still not losing does in fact reflect promotion form, don't it?

We all know there are far better performances in the team, and we are making a lot of shooting opportunities.  Take a few and see what that does.

Criticism is fine, and if constructive is helpful, but judging a team and a manager on the first 6 games of a completely new system, and condemning a new player after his first kick and something you've read or heard on 'social meeja' is just meaningless.

Come on! Remember this is West Bromwich Albion we support, not Blowing the Big Bucks Billybolax.
We've already seen what happens mate, we batter teams. Sheff Utd and Luton. Although these will be dressed up by some as "Oh but Sheff Utd were rubbish then" or "but we gave Luton 2 goals and were lucky to scrape it"
Fact is, we should have had 6 before Luton even got a kick and Sheff Utd were just destroyed.
Of course, it would be mad to hold these performances up as the standard, just as much as it is Millwall and Derby, the status quo is somewhere in the middle and, over the season, results, and points, will reflect that.

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #641 on: September 16, 2021, 12:16:11 PM »
We've already seen what happens mate, we batter teams. Sheff Utd and Luton. Although these will be dressed up by some as "Oh but Sheff Utd were rubbish then" or "but we gave Luton 2 goals and were lucky to scrape it"
Fact is, we should have had 6 before Luton even got a kick and Sheff Utd were just destroyed.
Of course, it would be mad to hold these performances up as the standard, just as much as it is Millwall and Derby, the status quo is somewhere in the middle and, over the season, results, and points, will reflect that.

Entirely sensible and reasonable post !
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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #642 on: September 16, 2021, 12:22:23 PM »
For me ,unbeaten after 7 league games shows we are heading in the right direction. It’s  all about results , great on those occasions where the performance is spot on as well but just compare it to the last one and a half seasons . The squad certainly in terms of numbers is limited. If we had our time again how many of the squad would we sign again ? Val for me is doing a great job given the players he has to choose from .

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #643 on: September 16, 2021, 01:34:33 PM »
We've already seen what happens mate, we batter teams. Sheff Utd and Luton. Although these will be dressed up by some as "Oh but Sheff Utd were rubbish then" or "but we gave Luton 2 goals and were lucky to scrape it"
Fact is, we should have had 6 before Luton even got a kick and Sheff Utd were just destroyed.
Of course, it would be mad to hold these performances up as the standard, just as much as it is Millwall and Derby, the status quo is somewhere in the middle and, over the season, results, and points, will reflect that.

A good, reasonable, balanced post.

I have some frustrations with the last couple of matches - but lets face it - we would have hammered Derby in that second had we been able to put the ball in the onion bag. Nothing wrong with our performance in that second half.

The second half was far more promising for how it should be going forwards.
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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #644 on: September 16, 2021, 01:59:07 PM »
A good, reasonable, balanced post.......

I'm not having this, ban him before it catches on.

Best to nip these kind of things in the bud.......
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If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #645 on: September 16, 2021, 02:02:35 PM »
I'm not having this, ban him before it catches on.

Best to nip these kind of things in the bud.......

Dangerous precedent, he should know better being an admin !  where is Oldbury when you need him ???
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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #646 on: September 16, 2021, 02:12:55 PM »
Dangerous precedent, he should know better being an admin !  where is Oldbury when you need him ???

Indeed. A clear and blatant contravention of. com's soiling the bed policy. I'm confident Old Mother Oldbury will set the correct tone by banning them both with immediate effect. One for forum sedition and the other for dereliction of duty.
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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #647 on: September 16, 2021, 02:21:36 PM »
The similarities between Val and Pulis' football are very limited. They both like getting the ball forward quickly, but the crucial difference is that Val expects the team to move up the pitch, whereas Pulis expected one big target man to manage with little or no help. Under Pulis the target man always got hopelessly isolated and outnumbered, so goal chances were always at a premium. Whereas VI wants to maximise our players in and around the oppo penalty box, and so increase the chances of it falling to one of them.

I agree that the long high balls whacked forward are not great to watch,and there is a difference between a 30-40 metre pass and a 30-40 metre hoof. The problem is a 30 or 40 metre pass along the ground has more chance of getting intercepted.  Also a number of our players haven't the skillset to deliver 30-40 metre passes. And Val insists on getting the ball forward quickly. 

I think its about playing our football in the final third, and having the players up there who are able to craft out chances. To do that you need strength in numbers in the oppo's half and in and around their penalty area, which is what VI is trying to do.
Einstein: A definition of insanity- someone who takes the same action time after time, even though previously it's always ended in failure

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #648 on: September 16, 2021, 02:46:34 PM »
Like Pullis?? Against Peterborough a CD scored a winner from OPEN PLAY in the 95th minute!!  Now tell me it's anyway the same :D

I fo get their are similarities; a direct style and focus on set pieces but there it ends

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #649 on: September 16, 2021, 04:03:51 PM »
Like Pullis?? Against Peterborough a CD scored a winner from OPEN PLAY in the 95th minute!!  Now tell me it's anyway the same :D

I fo get their are similarities; a direct style and focus on set pieces but there it ends

remind yourself of that when you are queuing for your neck brace. (joking)

In truth Nothing is as bad as Pulisball, and I cannot see that VI is cowardly in his approach, rudimentary yes, less flexible than I'd like - possibly (time will tell). This is a work in progress and we have to wait and see, but, its good to debate rather than have discussion stifled because all discussion is seen as either criticism or approval, when in fact it can simply be observations.
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