Author Topic: Valérien Ismaël leaves WBA  (Read 463952 times)

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KN22

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #250 on: July 10, 2021, 11:04:59 PM »
The 14 minute video posted on the official site this afternoon, which shows the highlights of Valerien's introduction to the various areas of the club, is definitely worth watching. It certainly made me feel even more positive about our new head coach!

Seen this now, really interesting. Doing the right things so far like meeting with club legend Tony Brown. I think it will be good fun under this guy.

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #251 on: July 11, 2021, 01:26:33 AM »
Generally agree with Baggies that there are two quite different approaches both high pressing but one very direct and the other much more possession orientated. The former tends to get deployed where the opponents have a talent advantage hence it was the default at Barnsley and in that context both Basel and PSV were on paper stronger than LASK.

Ismael took over from Oliver Glasner whose style was a very direct high press and over time LASK evolved under Ismael but the away leg in Basel was only his 4th game in charge and he had virtually no pre season to work with the players. It also could argued that the Europa League tie was the singularly most important fixture of LASK's season so probably wasn't the game to mess with the well established style.

I suspect we will get LASK this season and if promoted Barnsley next.
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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #252 on: July 11, 2021, 09:15:48 AM »
Seen this now, really interesting. Doing the right things so far like meeting with club legend Tony Brown. I think it will be good fun under this guy.

Short term I agree with you, and if we are steamrollering everything before us then happy days, but if we are not and that is either the fault of lack of investment or the fact that our 'style' has been sussed then I think we will get impatient very quickly.

I for one think that it is an imaginative and risky appointment, but I prefer this to the 'safe pair of hands journeymen' available. VI has passion and wants to win things, that will do for me.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2021, 09:25:44 AM by skyclad99 »
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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #253 on: July 11, 2021, 09:16:24 AM »
Valerien's style of play comes with very stringent demands of the players, so the sooner any newcomers arrive the more organised we'll be once the season starts. Players coming in after the season starts may find it difficult to fit into his method and also reach the required levels of fitness quickly. Therefore, dragging incoming transfers out until August 31st (or whenever the window closes) would be even worse this time around than in previous seasons.

No doubt people will remember that Pulis went through entire seasons stating that signings made after the season had started never reached the required level of match fitness because they weren't at the club for pre-season mountain climbing, I mean training.

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #254 on: July 11, 2021, 11:34:37 AM »
I now have a mental image of Valerian resplendent in white trainers and Albion baseball cap blowing a whistle repeatedly while the players sprint up and down the French Alps piggyback style to emphasise the importance of fitness and team bonding...... and working aaaaard.......
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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #255 on: July 11, 2021, 11:38:23 AM »
Stop it SmethDan
I was having a nice day until just now!

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #256 on: July 11, 2021, 01:02:50 PM »
I now have a mental image of Valerian resplendent in white trainers and Albion baseball cap blowing a whistle repeatedly while the players sprint up and down the French Alps piggyback style to emphasise the importance of fitness and team bonding...... and working aaaaard.......

It's okay I have seen pictures of the players training with a ball under Pulis they wouldn't have introduced a ball for another couple of weeks yet.
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Albionic

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #257 on: July 12, 2021, 06:31:25 PM »
Found this which is an interesting piece (and hopefully accurate, it is quite lengthy)

Forget Barnsley and LASK Lin
z – Werder Bremen is the true home of Ismaël’s footballing identity

When Sam Allardyce announced his exit from the Hawthorns in mid-May, I can’t say I expected to spend my summer scouring through footage of a domestic double-winning Werder Bremen outfit of the early noughties. And yet, after Albion’s timely appointment of Valérien Ismaël, here I am.

For many of us, Ismaël’s name was a fairly unfamiliar one prior to his appointment. But for those who were aware of his impressive track record at both LASK Linz in Austria, and more recently Barnsley, there was an optimistic sense of intrigue surrounding the appointment.

On one hand, Ismaël could finally offer a floundering West Brom side a long overdue identity, but whilst his commitment to high-intensity gegenpressing would be welcomed by fans and the club’s hierarchy alike, the incredibly direct football on show at Barnsley would be far less palatable.

Thankfully, Ismaël dismissed the idea of employing a similarly pragmatic playstyle in the West Midlands, stating in first press conference: “The philosophy is high-intensity football, high press but with this team we have the possibility to have more control in possession”.

Yet with Ismaël’s Barnsley side representing the total converse to this early promise of controlled possession, can we really glean much from his time in Yorkshire and Austria?

Well, yes and no.

We know that Ismaël tends to favour a 3-4-3 wherever he’s managed, preferring to use attacking, overlapping wingbacks either side of a solid three-man defence, to provide goal scoring opportunities for a front three. His trademark gegenpressing style is central to his footballing philosophy too, so we can obviously expect to see plenty of enthusiastic harrying of the opposition during his tenure.

Beyond that though, Ismaël’s on-field identity is malleable and dependent on the use of the ‘right’ players rather than the ‘best’. It will take a full pre-season to identify the right players in such a unique system; a system inspired by Ismaël’s decorated playing days in Germany (rather than during his managerial career), and surprisingly not from his spell at Bayern Munich either.

No, in fact the Frenchman’s knack for transforming mediocre sides into feared and fancied underdogs stems from his debut season on loan at the Weserstadion: the home of Werder Bremen and also home to one of the most unlikely triumphs in modern German footballing history.

Prior to his memorable stint at Werder Bremen, Albion’s new gaffer carved out a successful, if injury-hampered playing career as a centre back mostly hopping between Ligue 1 and the Bundesliga. Three separate stints at his hometown club of Strasbourg preceded his defining loan move to Bremen at the beginning of the 2003/04 season; a move which would land the then 27-year-old Frenchman an unlikely domestic double in his debut season under club legend Thomas Schaaf.

Now, Thomas Schaaf is probably a name you haven’t heard before – don’t worry you’re not alone – but after casting an eye over his league and cup-winning tactics, the similarities between his and Ismaël’s approach at LASK and Barnsley is uncanny.

Schaaf, a true one-club man at Bremen during his playing days, blew the Bundesliga away with an unconventionally gung-ho attacking style which accentuated the talents of what was a good, rather than great squad. He didn’t need a team of Ballacks or a Pizarros to achieve the perceivably unachievable – he needed the ‘right’ players.

You can probably see where I’m going with this.

After inheriting a Bremen team under serious risk relegation in 1999, Schaaf performed miracles over the coming seasons. He propelled the team from 13th to 7th in his first full season, before recording back-to-back 6th places between 2001 and the spring of 2003. But it was the 2003/04 season where his Bremen side truly came alive.

At the centre of Schaaf’s genius was his tactical setup. His tactic of choice was as unorthodox as it was brave, opting to set up in a 3-3-2-2 formation. Seriously, 3-3-2-2.

In front of the experienced Andreas Reinke in net, Schaaf opted for three centre halves, anchored by Ismaël himself. At an intimidating 6’3, Ismaël was a huge physical and calming presence at the heart of the Bremen defence, a defence which, statistically, ranked 2nd best in the Bundesliga in their title-winning campaign – the season prior to Ismaël’s arrival it ranked 12th out of 18 sides.

To Ismaël’s left was the impressive Serbian, Mladen Krstajić, a rangy left back-turned-centre back whose quiet ascendancy from the domestic Serbian league prospect to Bundesliga heavyweight won many plaudits. Canadian Paul Stalteri, a shorter and more mobile right back who, like Krstajić, transitioned into a centre half and marshalled the right side of the defence behind the marauding right wing-back, Inter Milan loanee, Ümit Davala.

Davala, and his left-sided counterpart Fabian Ernst, bombed up and down the flanks. In many ways, they were typical modern-day wing-backs a decade ahead of their time. Between them in the centre sat Frank Baumann – a classically imposing screening midfielder who was just at home at centre half. He gave, not only Davala and the devastating Ernst the freedom to roam forwards, but much-needed balance to a midfield accommodating two more creative central midfielders ahead of him to influence the game in the opposition’s half.

These midfielders came in the shape of the reliable Krisztián Lisztes, and the supremely talented Johan Micoud. Micoud, in particular, was crucial to Schaaf’s plans. He was the creative link between the industrious defensive players and the deadly forward tandem of Ivan Klasnić, who would later sign for Baggies favourite Gary Megson at Bolton, and the Bundesliga player of the season, Aílton.

Bremen, in this set up, were incredibly exciting. In 16 of their 34 league games, they scored at least three goals, and they were only shut out three times all season. Their 79 league goals that season was the most by any Bundesliga side since a Lothar Matthaus-inspired Bayern Munich in 1987/88. So where were all these goals coming from in the 3-3-2-2?

Based on some rudimentary research, the simple answer is Aílton. 28 goals in 33 games speaks for itself, although his goal threat was not news to Bundesliga defenders. He’d already racked up 58 goals in the last four campaigns combined. What was new though, was how he was scoring.

Aílton’s iconic free-scoring season was underpinned by devastating left-footed finishing, often latching on to whipped, low crosses from the left or swiftly breaching stretched defences on the break. More interestingly though, Bremen’s Brazilian benefited from two players in particular, whose form skyrocketed in that season: Fabian Ernst and Ivan Klasnić.

Previously, both players had been pretty toothless in attacking areas until this point in their Bremen careers. Ernst’s 135 Bundesliga appearances had resulted in only 11 goal contributions from either left back or left midfield. Meanwhile, 23-year-old striker Klasnić had played 35 games in two injury-hit seasons for Die Werderaner, but only started six of them.

However, Schaaf somehow found a way to maximise these underperforming talents. Ernst and Klasnić both recorded 11 league assists in 03/04, only a certain Michael Ballack for Bayern assisted more often (12). Klasnić also popped up with 13 goals, taking his personal goals and assists tally to 24, and Werder’s strike partnership to an eye-watering 60. 60 in a 34-game season. For reference, the famed Gayle (25) and Rodriguez (27) partnership amassed 52 goals and assists combined in our 46-game 2018/19 Championship season…

But what has Bremen’s eighteen-year-old success got to do with Ismaël’s current project at Albion?

Well there are more reasonable comparisons between these two seemingly unrelated sides than you might think…

Despite Werder’s success that year – which included a mammoth 23-game unbeaten run in the league – after a goalless draw with north German rivals Hannover 96 in April of 2004, Ismaël spoke to the media post-game. Clearly disappointed with the result, he declared, “If you want to become a champion you have to score goals”.

Almost two decades on, these words are particularly pertinent as he undertakes his first season at West Brom.

Not only will there be pressure from some sections of the Hawthorn’s faithful to achieve an immediate Premier League return, but there is a stylistic pressure, nay expectation, to get this faltering Albion side scoring far more regularly. Given the vast array of footballing ideals that Ismaël shares with his former boss: their obsession with teamplay, their unwavering belief in selecting the right players for the system rather than the best players and their commitment to a feverish team press with an organised three-man defence, is it time for Bremen 2.0 in B71?

Not entirely, no. That being said, in my very amateur opinion, this iteration of Ismaël-ball will be closer to Schaaf’s Bremen than it will be to Barnsley. The similarities in the playing squads, especially in key roles, are there in abundance.

Townsend and Furlong are made for that Ernst-Davala wing back role, whether in a 3-3-2-2 or the 3-4-3 that Ismaël employed in Yorkshire last season. Neither are known for their defensive acumen, but their offensive play is far better than most second tier full backs and an Ernst-like season for Townsend would be very welcome.

Bartley and Ismaël games are hardly worlds apart. O’Shea is versatile, mobile, and defensively sound à la Stalteri, and rumours of Trevor Chalobah signing for the Baggies are not surprising when you compare him to defensive midfield lynchpin Frank Baumann. Both are 6’3, both represent great ball-wining options in the centre of midfield or in defence.

It may seem farfetched, but I can also optimistically envisage Grant and Robinson linking up in a not too dissimilar fashion to Klasnić and Aílton, as part of a front three rather than a front two (maybe without the obscene goalscoring records though). Both are mobile, proven goal scorers at this level, and much like Klasnić at Werder before his breakout season, Grant has struggled to find his feet in the West Midlands. You never know.

The most intriguing like-for-like comparison that can be made between squad personnel is that between, new signing Alex Mowatt, a Brunt-esque set piece specialist with a cultured left peg, and Johan Micoud. Micoud was the silky, highly technical, dead ball expert with a cultured right peg who ran the show in Bremen’s midfield, who genuinely garnered Zidane comparisons by Bayern Munich manager Ottmar Hitzfeld during his time in Northern Germany. Whilst I am not actually indirectly likening Mowatt to Zidane, it speaks volumes that Ismaël prioritised Mowatt’s free signing, and has publicly stated that he is relying on him to disseminate his unusual philosophies to the squad on the pitch. With Pereira’s departure from the club becoming increasingly likely, it appears that Mowatt may be the new creative hub of a refurbished Albion midfield.

Individuals aside, Ismaël has to now replicate Schaaf’s ultimate quality: fixing a broken team and revitalising stagnant careers. That is not an easy task given the demanding and cruel nature of Championship football, but a four-year contract represents the club’s ambitious long-term approach to reclaiming its spot in the Premier League.

Bremen wasn’t built in a day. Schaaf won the double in his fourth season, and it may take every year of Ismaël’s contract to achieve the club’s goal of promotion, but as long as the Albion hierarchy trust Ismaël, it’s a very realistic outcome.

A ball hasn’t been kicked yet. There’s only been one confirmed signing too. Yet it’s hard to deny that Ismaël’s face fits at the Hawthorns right now and he’s been making all the right noises regarding the academy, delivering exciting football and developing a culture of hard graft and togetherness.

The tactical and philosophical inspiration from Schaaf is clear wherever Ismaël’s managed before, but the Frenchman will be no pastiche of his one-time gaffer whilst he’s at West Brom. This is his project.

This is Ismaël’s West Brom 1.0.
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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #258 on: July 13, 2021, 11:51:51 AM »
Found this which is an interesting piece (and hopefully accurate, it is quite lengthy)

Cheers for posting was an informative read.
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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #259 on: July 13, 2021, 12:20:00 PM »
Many thanks for that Albionic. Interesting post, and an informative encouraging read. 

It would be first rate if the management gave Valérien the time and resources, and the rest of us were patient and understanding enough to allow the longer term development of  Ismaël's West Brom 1.0

Still waiting to see, but with some renewed hope.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 12:23:40 PM by wodenson46 »

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #260 on: July 13, 2021, 02:08:57 PM »
Many thanks Albionic.  I had picked up on the Werder Bremen links by digging around on a few German websites. Ismael is apparently still good mates with Frank Baumann from that Werder team, who is now Director of Football there. In fact Ismael was shortlisted for their recent manager's job, though they didn't choose him. 
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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #261 on: July 13, 2021, 09:36:15 PM »
Exellent post Albionic
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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #262 on: July 13, 2021, 09:48:12 PM »
Thanks for posting the article, Albionic. I'm going to be fascinated to see how Valerien sets us up to play, but I'm very confident that it's not going to be dull.

Sadly for Thomas Schaaf, things have gone completely pear-shaped for him since he left Werder Bremen, having been manager there for 14 years.

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #263 on: July 23, 2021, 09:33:01 AM »
This is the second half of the article from Steve Madeley of the Athletic looking at the first month of Ismael's tenure.

Supporters with impressive hearing might have heard some interesting phrases during last weekend’s friendly at Woking.

“Deep option,” “far side” and “Bonucci ball” have all entered the lexicon for players and staff since Ismael took his first training session three weeks ago.

The most noticeable features about training under Ismael, The Athletic has been told, have been the planning and the intensity.

Days off have been few and far between, the published timetable has been adhered to meticulously while sessions have been short, detailed and played at 100mph.

Training is split into two short sessions, each with a clear, tactical objective and separated by a frank “half-time” debrief at the side of the training pitch, often featuring Ismael and a whiteboard.

The whole session, including the debrief, rarely lasts longer than an hour, although there has been a second session in the afternoon. Further, more detailed analysis sessions take place before and after training in the training-ground classroom.


Players have been told Ismael’s commitment to pressing and winning possession high up the field is non-negotiable. Many sessions are dedicated to ensuring everyone understands how the plan works in practice.

And they have been instructed that play in possession will be direct, although so far direct has not meant “long ball”. Instead, it has meant playing forward passes early and spending the maximum possible time in opposition territory.

The methods of moving forward have been varied, including the new tactical jargon that Ismael has introduced for team-mates and coaches to offer simple instructions to a player in possession.

“Deep option” advises a direct ball into the central striker in the new 3-4-3 system. “Far side” is code for an early pass to a wide forward when possession is won. And “Bonucci ball” is the phrase for a diagonal pass from a right- or left-sided centre-back to the wing-back on the opposite flank.

Training is tough. “They will be fitter than they have ever been,” The Athletic was told this week by one source with first-hand knowledge of Ismael’s work at Barnsley.

So far, the noises from the Albion camp are positive.

“He’s very clear in what he wants and he takes responsibility for the way we play, which speaks volumes,” says captain Jake Livermore. “It’s the sign of a man who is clear in what he wants to do and previously it’s been unfortunate that we’ve had a lack of direction.

“Now there is a definite style of play that we want to fulfil. I’d imagine it will take time to get us where he wants us to be but we are working hard every day — twice a day at the moment. Everything is being sent to us tactically, video clips and analysis and he’s very clear in what he wants and that gives us the confidence in him.

“It’s very short, very sharp and very intense and then we take our foot off the gas and we go and look at it tactically. Then we go again.”

Ismael is not the first Albion manager in recent times to try to embrace the staff.

Slaven Bilic did so successfully at the beginning of his reign with morning walkabouts, inclusive management and a caring yet authoritative nature. Alan Pardew tried it with handshakes and a rallying meeting but was quickly dismissed by most staff as a man fond of a gesture.

Ismael, however, has so far galvanised staff who were dispirited in the wake of a dismal 2020-21 campaign that ended in relegation.

He held a group meeting with all training-ground staff to stress the importance of each one to the cause and has made connections with employees beyond the first-team bubble. Staff have been told to call him ‘Val’.

And included in his methods in his early weeks at The Hawthorns has been a commitment to approach the squad with an open mind.

Although Albion appear to be short of cover in the wing-back and central midfield positions, Ismael has identified Ethan Ingram on the right, and particularly Taylor Gardner-Hickman on the left, as members of the youth team who could fill in this season. Portuguese midfielder Quevin Castro was signed for the club’s development group, but he has done enough in training to now be pushing for Championship appearances when the season begins.

Ismael will be judged ultimately on first-team results. But in a small space of time, he has made a big impression.


Lot to unpack there but it all seems to be going well.
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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #264 on: July 24, 2021, 08:48:01 AM »
Happy that he's here but needs club to back him in transfer market as  no matter what some of our senior pros say he can't polish turds.

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #265 on: July 24, 2021, 09:07:00 AM »
Happy that he's here but needs club to back him in transfer market as  no matter what some of our senior pros say he can't polish turds.

No but he can roll them in glitter.

Seems to me that our hands are tied if we don't sell either Sam or Matheus...
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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #266 on: July 24, 2021, 06:49:27 PM »
No but he can roll them in glitter.

Seems to me that our hands are tied if we don't sell either Sam or Matheus...
If we don’t sell either we just need a CF to storm this league
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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #267 on: July 25, 2021, 10:16:32 AM »
Just had a thought - I know the pills don't help - but it occurred to me that Val with his attention to detail for every player might have been the person to knock some tactical awareness into Harper and produced a good player.  Water under the bridge.
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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #268 on: July 25, 2021, 03:06:49 PM »
Just had a thought - I know the pills don't help - but it occurred to me that Val with his attention to detail for every player might have been the person to knock some tactical awareness into Harper and produced a good player.  Water under the bridge.

On the subject of attention to detail, Harper has been sold to Ipswich.

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #269 on: July 25, 2021, 03:30:07 PM »
On the subject of attention to detail, Harper has been sold to Ipswich.

And NJS is quite aware of that.

Hence the use of “might have been the person” and “water under the bridge”.
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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #270 on: July 25, 2021, 03:30:57 PM »
Just had a thought - I know the pills don't help - but it occurred to me that Val with his attention to detail for every player might have been the person to knock some tactical awareness into Harper and produced a good player.  Water under the bridge.

Agreed. Selling Harper so close to the new manager coming in seemed a bit odd to me. Val could have done something with him. As you say, water under the bridge.

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #271 on: July 25, 2021, 10:42:44 PM »
As someone already said the massive piece of the jigsaw is a CF and maybe two, early signs are really good and I'm confident , as much as I can be it is Albion, we will get at least one hopefully two
Diangana looks good but grant worries me.
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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #272 on: July 25, 2021, 11:08:31 PM »
Think he may have also enjoyed coaching Edwards too
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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #273 on: July 26, 2021, 05:03:13 AM »
Think he may have also enjoyed coaching Edwards too
Totally agree. Thought Edwards was the best player we let go recently.

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Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #274 on: July 26, 2021, 08:10:48 AM »
Totally agree. Thought Edwards was the best player we let go recently.
did we let him go though ??
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