[baggiebof]

I fail to see why Dowling has more influence over signings than the Manager.  The Manager is the expert, not Dowling.

Dowling should be looking after the long term vision of the club. Leaving it to a manger could lead to much more short termism, think of Harry Redknapp at QPR, lots of money spent on lots of players at the wrong stage of their careers. The Dowling role should safeguard against that whilst also considering pathways into the first team for promising youngsters in the academy setup. Just a couple of reasons why Dowling should have more influence.

[wodenson46]

Dowling should be looking after the long term vision of the club. Leaving it to a manger could lead to much more short termism, think of Harry Redknapp at QPR, lots of money spent on lots of players at the wrong stage of their careers. The Dowling role should safeguard against that whilst also considering pathways into the first team for promising youngsters in the academy setup. Just a couple of reasons why Dowling should have more influence.

Change Dowling to a less specific 'Director of Football' and that is the perfect description of what should be happening. Well said sir!

[baggiejohn]

Dowling should be looking after the long term vision of the club. Leaving it to a manger could lead to much more short termism, think of Harry Redknapp at QPR, lots of money spent on lots of players at the wrong stage of their careers. The Dowling role should safeguard against that whilst also considering pathways into the first team for promising youngsters in the academy setup. Just a couple of reasons why Dowling should have more influence.

All good, assuming the DoF has a free hit, & not overridden from above.

[WorcsWBA]

All good, assuming the DoF has a free hit, & not overridden from above.

And assuming that the DoF is capable and has very good connections!

[leeiswba]

I have heard countless people on here blame Bilic for poor Summer signings such as Grant, Ivanovic, Diangana, Kipre etc.  So in reality every failed transfer is the fault of Luke Dowling and not the Manager.

I fail to see why Dowling has more influence over signings than the Manager.  The Manager is the expert, not Dowling.

I suppose its Dowling fault over Allardyce for the selection of Livermore, Sawyers, Grant, HRK, Furlong, Gibbs over the last few weeks!

I’m sorry if I come across rude mate, but how many times do you need to be told by different posters just how the football club works in terms of transfers?

The fact you are still saying Allardyce has failed in the market bringing players in when it’s been said again and again that’s not the way it works.

[GREGMT]

I’m sorry if I come across rude mate, but how many times do you need to be told by different posters just how the football club works in terms of transfers?

The fact you are still saying Allardyce has failed in the market bringing players in when it’s been said again and again that’s not the way it works.

Sorry Mate!

In that case target the other posters also having a pop at Bilic for signings made last Summer.

No good trying to just single out myself.

[Baggies]

Sorry Mate!

In that case target the other posters also having a pop at Bilic for signings made last Summer.

No good trying to just single out myself.

I can't really recall anyone on here or Twitter suggesting Bilic was the man responsible for all of our transfer activity last summer in the same way you are of Allardyce this month.

What there has been in the "post mortem" of our summer activity is an acknowledgement of which areas Bilic did have an influence of. We know that Bilic asked Dowling/the club to prioritise making a number of last season's loan deals permanent (source - Slaven Bilic himself). We know Bilic wanted Branislav Ivanovic (source - Slaven Bilic himself). We also have the suggestion from a number of reliable local journalists that Bilic;

A, Dug his heels in as the transfer window went on to get Grant over the line rather than moving on to other targets (we can't be 100% sure if this is a fact as I can't recall Bilic saying much in the press but the patch journos have heard it from somewhere).

B, Did not feel that Defensive midfield, full back or goalkeeper were as high priority as other areas. Again, we can't know if this is true for sure, but the fact the local journo's predictions came true and we didn't improve on these areas lends weight to their statements. If it was true, Bilic was proven right about the goal keeper but half of this forum has defensive mid as their highest priority and I'd argue they have all been proven correct over the first half of this season.

That however doesn't make Bilic fully responsible. Luke Dowling is his boss and Dowling signed off on any decisions Bilic got his own way on. Dowling's decisions will also have had an impact on Bilic's decisions, with the best example being Dowling's purchase of Cedric Kipre because he came available at a good price, despite the fact he probably wasn't what we needed and the knock on was that Bilic then ended up asking for Ivanovic meaning 2 bad signings rather than us getting 1 good one.

The way I see it, there are areas that are the clubs responsibility (Dowling's) or both Dowling & Bilic. There are none that are solely Bilic.

[Baggies]

Sorry Mate!

In that case target the other posters also having a pop at Bilic for signings made last Summer.

No good trying to just single out myself.

The other thing I would say on this, is that in the main, Bilic has garnered a lot more praise than criticism for his transfer activity in his time here, thanks to the fact that it was reported at the time and generally accepted that Pereira was somebody who Bilic or his team were responsible for identifying. Bilic wouldn't have negotiated for him, that's Dowling's job, but he deserves credit for pushing for it.

[GREGMT]

I can't really recall anyone on here or Twitter suggesting Bilic was the man responsible for all of our transfer activity last summer in the same way you are of Allardyce this month.

What there has been in the "post mortem" of our summer activity is an acknowledgement of which areas Bilic did have an influence of. We know that Bilic asked Dowling/the club to prioritise making a number of last season's loan deals permanent (source - Slaven Bilic himself). We know Bilic wanted Branislav Ivanovic (source - Slaven Bilic himself). We also have the suggestion from a number of reliable local journalists that Bilic;

A, Dug his heels in as the transfer window went on to get Grant over the line rather than moving on to other targets (we can't be 100% sure if this is a fact as I can't recall Bilic saying much in the press but the patch journos have heard it from somewhere).

B, Did not feel that Defensive midfield, full back or goalkeeper were as high priority as other areas. Again, we can't know if this is true for sure, but the fact the local journo's predictions came true and we didn't improve on these areas lends weight to their statements. If it was true, Bilic was proven right about the goal keeper but half of this forum has defensive mid as their highest priority and I'd argue they have all been proven correct over the first half of this season.

That however doesn't make Bilic fully responsible. Luke Dowling is his boss and Dowling signed off on any decisions Bilic got his own way on. Dowling's decisions will also have had an impact on Bilic's decisions, with the best example being Dowling's purchase of Cedric Kipre because he came available at a good price, despite the fact he probably wasn't what we needed and the knock on was that Bilic then ended up asking for Ivanovic meaning 2 bad signings rather than us getting 1 good one.

The way I see it, there are areas that are the clubs responsibility (Dowling's) or both Dowling & Bilic. There are none that are solely Bilic.

So what exactly was Bilic sacked for, if the responsibility for player recruitment rests with Dowling?  In essence you're only calling out the Manager for poor tactics, formations, bad results?

The budget we are operating with is basically the lowest in the Division, therefore we should be expected to finish bottom, so currently we are exceeding expectations!

I watched Lorient beat PSG today 3-2, I bet their players are on £10,000 per week max.  Shame we haven't recruited from clubs like this.

As regards vouching for defensive midfield reinforcements, I've been very vocal about it from the start.

[leeiswba]

So what exactly was Bilic sacked for, if the responsibility for player recruitment rests with Dowling?  In essence you're only calling out the Manager for poor tactics, formations, bad results?

The budget we are operating with is basically the lowest in the Division, therefore we should be expected to finish bottom, so currently we are exceeding expectations!

I watched Lorient beat PSG today 3-2, I bet their players are on £10,000 per week max.  Shame we haven't recruited from clubs like this.

As regards vouching for defensive midfield reinforcements, I've been very vocal about it from the start.

Agree entirely, one of Dowlings major downfalls is focusing too much on the British market which for a club like us with hardly any money to spend is pointless, much better value for money abroad.

Look at how we established ourselves last time; olsson, Mulimbu, yacob, odemwingie etc, all great players and affordable prices as they were from abroad

[iwastherein68]

Some good work done by Cool-Hand Luke. Credit due I think , brilliant window , possible best ever for minimal outlay. Well done Sam for talking these players in.

[LiamTheBaggie]

He’s done well in getting the deals over the line - this is exactly what many were advocating in the summer. A clever use of resources. We’ve improved the team massively this month and have barely spent a penny. We spent big in the summer and have received nothing in return.

Tonight just highlights how rubbish and ill thought out our summer recruitment was.

[WBArgo]

Agree entirely, one of Dowlings major downfalls is focusing too much on the British market which for a club like us with hardly any money to spend is pointless, much better value for money abroad.

Look at how we established ourselves last time; olsson, Mulimbu, yacob, odemwingie etc, all great players and affordable prices as they were from abroad

That's not really true though, we also had plenty of British and Irish players too, i.e. Brunt, Morrison, Dorrans, McAuley, Jones, Long, Reid, Shorey all came at a similar time and all did well.

In fairness to Dowling a lot of our signings have done well since he came.

[gazberg]

The worst thing is the board knew their relationship with Bilic was unworkable and now we are in the rubbish because of it.

The club bottled it big time.

[alex1]

I can't say I know a lot about most of the new signings, but on paper and the level of the clubs they come from, this has been an excellent window. When you consider it must have been achieved within a limited budget.  Credit to Dowling and whoever identified the players. Having said that, I hope they won't now disappoint.

[Dexy]

I can't say I know a lot about most of the new signings, but on paper and the level of the clubs they come from, this has been an excellent window. When you consider it must have been achieved within a limited budget.  Credit to Dowling and whoever identified the players. Having said that, I hope they won't now disappoint.

The overseas lads have to be Allardyce surely ?

[LiamTheBaggie]

The overseas lads have to be Allardyce surely ?

You would have thought so - all of our overseas signings in recent years under Dowling have been lead by the manager.

Hopefully it’s something Dowling can make use of going forwards if we’re operating with limited resources

[Baggies]

Personally, I’m really conflicted by this window. On the one hand, we have backed Allardyce and brought in 4 (probably 5) new faces for the first team to give him the best opportunity to some how perform a miracle (even if it does feel a bit too late in the month).

On the other hand, by the time Musa signs we will likely have spent a (conservative estimate) of £10m on short term deals this January. If we were within touching distance of 17th then it would be a good gamble, but with us requiring a premier league record recovery it starts looking like we have just eaten into next years budget, money we are going to need to replace the raft of players who will be out of contract and at the end of the season, we may well have nothing left to show for it other than a near 34 year old Robert Snodgrass. It feels a bit like we have lost a few hundred betting and have decided to gamble even more to try to get even by putting it on a 100-1 horse.

We came into the day talking about getting a defender but instead bought somebody who wants to play midfield. As I’ve said on another thread, we now have a ton of midfielders (3 alone signed this month) when you could argue some of that money would have been better spent on areas such as full back and central defence. Players we will rely on next season will likely not feature much for the rest of this one (Diangana, Sawyers, Robinson, Grant) while Connor Gallagher who had been our outfield player of the season up until a few weeks ago now looks likely to also be sidelined when there is at this stage little evidence that Maitland-Niles is a better central midfielder (he is a great full back but Arsenal fans have questions about the midfield role).

Dowling deserves credit for his negotiating skills, it is one area I probably don’t credit him with enough but he does get a lot of deals done like this and I should acknowledge that.

I just feel a bit uneasy about the longer term implications of this January gamble.

[wba_1996]

Completely agree with the above post. We might turn things around now and have a respectable end to the season, but realistically we’re still going to be relegated. The club is run on a short term basis and if the intention is to let Allardyce walk in the summer then we’ve just wasted a good chunk of money that could have been put towards rebuilding under a new head coach.

Massive rebuild is due yet again in the summer and some difficult decisions to be made, I’d release pretty much all of the out of contract players but there’s no way we can afford to replace them.

But hey ho, looking at the positives at least I’ve got 4 months of not seeing Livermore in central midfield.

[Standaman]

This window is entirely agent lead. I wouldn't credit anybody at the club for identifying the players concerned. Although I would credit Dowling for getting the deals done at all.  They are short term fixes which in the context of where we are is to degree understandable and an entirely logical consequence of appointing Allardyce.

If hasn't cost us nothing and I don't think Baggies estimate of £10m is going to be too wide of the mark. It won't save us (nothing was going to do that after about 10 games) but the long term issues with the squad are starting to pile up.

[TAFKATMNo1Fan]

Completely agree with the above post. We might turn things around now and have a respectable end to the season, but realistically we’re still going to be relegated. The club is run on a short term basis and if the intention is to let Allardyce walk in the summer then we’ve just wasted a good chunk of money that could have been put towards rebuilding under a new head coach.

Massive rebuild is due yet again in the summer and some difficult decisions to be made, I’d release pretty much all of the out of contract players but there’s no way we can afford to replace them.

But hey ho, looking at the positives at least I’ve got 4 months of not seeing Livermore in central midfield.

After tonight! 

[baggiebof]

Glad to see we have picked up some players in the two keep positions we had to sort out, as others have echoed, it would have been nice to have strengthened the defence.

I think we should await judgment on whether the window is a success or not until we see how the players get on, on paper I am pleased with Yokuslu and Maitland-Niles and less so with Diagne and Snodgrass but let's see.

Agree with calls above, this looks entirely agent led which I personally find disappointing. Finally the shouts of why couldn't we sign these players in the summer, they weren't necessarily available,  it isn't as easy as that. Obviously we all agree though that these positions should have been filled in the summer but it might not have been with these players as they likely weren't available.

[zippyandbungle]

This thread 🙄
When a signing doesn’t work out for us it’s because Downing is rubbish, when they do it’s because the manager is great.
He gets the blame for everything and very very little credit.
He is a facilitator, it’s not his job to pick/train/motivate the team....all clubs make bad signings ....or signings that don’t particularly workout for them....look at Charlie Austin, we were desperate for a proper number nine with a record that suggested goals goals goals , he had that , it’s not Dowlings fault that he just dipped off the fitness cliff and couldn’t run (but still finished top scorer)
I really don’t get why so many “experts” on here can’t wait to crucify him.

[darbolina]

 Dowling does a high profile job and is part of the main football decision making processes at the club. In the time he's been here, there have been some successes on the pitch (promotion in spite of low investment, signing of Pereira) and some poor decisions (based on the results) this season in particular. Compare us with say Leeds, Sheff Utd, Fulham and Brighton this season or Norwich overall. Are we punching at or above our weight or are we under par. I'd say we're under par overall compared to those teams who generally invested better or in the case of Sheff Utd and Norwich, have a longer term vision to go down and build upon what they already have with a coach they trust or a system they trust.

In terms of strategy, we're either erratic or it's non-existent ( I think it's more the latter).

Overall, it's Lai's fault (or true owner if different), Dowling's fault and of course the players/ head coaches fault.

Dowling cannot escape his key role in this seasons poor recruitment and horrendous showing in the premier league which is way worse than my pre season negative expectations overall. At this stage, I thought we'd be in a pack of five at the bottom but we're well adrift already.

The biggest criticism I have of Dowling is that if he's supposed to be the owner of the 'football' DNA of the club at the moment (it ain't Lai or the other directors) then the vision is short term, erratic and panicky. Compare with Dan Ashworth who is building something (again) at Brighton which will have a long term impact. In the past couple of years, our academy has lost a lot of coaches and players for example. We've lurched from one first team head coach to another. Our recruitment has been , well erratic again (including the journey from Bilic to SA with a squad just not suited to SA) . These areas are Dowlings main area as far as I can see.......... I give him 3/10 this season so far, last season was an 8/10 based on the fact we got up

[baggiebof]

This thread 🙄
When a signing doesn’t work out for us it’s because Downing is rubbish, when they do it’s because the manager is great.
He gets the blame for everything and very very little credit.
He is a facilitator, it’s not his job to pick/train/motivate the team....all clubs make bad signings ....or signings that don’t particularly workout for them....look at Charlie Austin, we were desperate for a proper number nine with a record that suggested goals goals goals , he had that , it’s not Dowlings fault that he just dipped off the fitness cliff and couldn’t run (but still finished top scorer)
I really don’t get why so many “experts” on here can’t wait to crucify him.

We can't wait to crucify him because he in an important job and we can see his limitations, much the same with Lai and managers too for that matter. I wouldn't say that he doesn't get credit when it is due either, most on here have been impressed with his negotiation skills and he also got praise for lowering the average age of the squad in summer 2019. He has also had some praise in loaning out some youngsters, granted most have picked up injuries but that isn't down to him.

No he doesn't pick, train or motivate the team but he does oversee recruitment and plenty of the criticisms on here have been fair and proven correct. Even Austin, you'll have seen a fair few of us thought it was a poor signing at the time, I wouldn't say we were unlucky that his fitness fell off a cliff, it was obvious. You could point to him scoring a couple of goals at QPR and question that but he is now playing in a system with two up top and wing-backs, where he can stay central, doesn't have to run the channels or link play, which suits him now. It was obvious that Bilic would play one up top, he has most of his career so it was an even poorer signing. You could argue that is Bilic's fault but Dowling should have done his due diligence. I think that's an example of people's issues in a nutshell, he doesn't do enough diligence, doesn't think outside of the box or work smart enough.