Poll

How would you rate Luke Dowlings tenure to date (26 may 2021)

Roaring success, we'll be lucky to keep him
2 (1.8%)
Doing well given the limitations he has to work under
9 (8.1%)
Ok
16 (14.4%)
Poor, could be doing better overall
49 (44.1%)
Abject, needs to be fired or walk,
35 (31.5%)

Total Members Voted: 111

Voting closed: June 05, 2021, 12:28:58 PM

Author Topic: Luke Dowling  (Read 60764 times)

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WorcsWBA

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #775 on: May 27, 2021, 11:32:37 AM »
Absolutely…..which is why I have no faith in the management of the club what so ever. Has 'Ken' ever done an interview? It would be interesting to hear what he has to say.
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Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
« Reply #776 on: May 27, 2021, 12:24:07 PM »
Just goes to show that a lot of fans have unrealistic expectations. As seteefeet said, in three seasons, play offs, promotion and nailed-on relegation. Pretty impressive with our budget. Dexy has posted a big list of the all signings from 19/20 and he marked most of them as failures. We got automatic promotion of the back off that transfer window earning the club hundreds of millions of pounds! It's laughable.

Whether a matter is unrealistic is a matter of your personal opinion, but we cannot just sit here and blaming the budget and the finances to mask what some may consider an appalling job he is doing.

How much money does he have to be given before we can judge his performance accordingly?

Lets face it - this club has not been awash with money and the fans have been able to judge the likes of Ashworth, Garlick, Hammond and Terraneo despite working to similar constraints.

Both 2019/20 and 2020/21 have seen us spend monies - whether you agree with the allocated amounts - which could have been used smartly to address the weaknesses within this squad.

2019/20

The two real successful signings of that season are Pereira and Diangana who are both widely attributed to be Bilic signings.

The rest of very much of a muchness - there are no stand out talents, just merely average footballers who will likely spend the majority of their careers playing championship (or lower level football).

I'm not even going to comment on the pathetic waste of monies on Zohore. Austin might have came for a fee and high wages but at least he provided a contribution.

The comparison was drawn to Ashworth - but he built a side which could succeed in the championship but had the nucleus of being a Premier League side (as an example, Brunt, Morrison, Mulumu, Olsson, Tamas). He then added to it with the smart recruitment of the likes of Odemwingie for peanuts whereas we opted for nigh on £15m for Grant and both players are not comparable.

How much of our current crop do you reckon we can form a side that could enable to survive in the PL? Ajayi, Furlong, Sawyers are not PL quality and that is the difference between the two.

As for last season:

The pursual of getting the old band back together which from December onwards limped towards promotion - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Krovinovic despite him being a second rate star of our championship season - Dowling takes responsibility for that in not putting his foot down.

The failure to address the weaknesses in central midfield - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The appointment of a manager that was not entirely suited to this group of players - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Diangana - against his managers wishes - for nigh on £15m when he doesn't fit into the managers methods of playing - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Grant - who is nowhere near a centre forward for £15m - Dowling takes responsibility for that. He should have over-ruled Bilic given Dowling is in charge of our club going forwards.

Cedric Kipre - can anyone from the top of their heads recall what country he is currently playing in let alone team he plays for?

The decimation of our academy staff to that lot down the road - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

---

We might not be the richest club in the world, you might not agree with the budget that is set - but clubs like us have to box clever. They have to maximise their resources. We do not do that. We fall from one season to the other with no forward planning unlike clubs like Norwich, Brentford, Barnsley who are reaping the benefits of their patience and forward planning - and two of those may be swapping divisions with us.
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Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
« Reply #777 on: May 27, 2021, 01:36:21 PM »
Whether a matter is unrealistic is a matter of your personal opinion, but we cannot just sit here and blaming the budget and the finances to mask what some may consider an appalling job he is doing.

Liam, you have got the wrong end of the stick. I think Dowling has done a very decent job with the limited tools available to him. Some posters think he's done a terrible job, that's their view. I have never suggested that Dowling has done a poor job due to the limited resources. I think he has got more right than wrong with the tools available to him.

Our transfer business in 2019/20 was being lauded at the time and we got promotion of the back of it. Romain Saywers was touted as the signing of the season. Ajayi similar. After relegation from the premiership fans like to vent and have someone to blame, so of course now all those plaudits from the 19/20 season are in the distance and we have this revisionism that our dealings that in those championship windows was ****-poor, which doesn't any make sense as we got promoted.

I see comments like we could have spent the money better, which never acknowledge that some signings work and some don't, it's fairyland stuff. Grady is a very good example. He was unbelievable in the Championship and flopped in the Prem. There was a riot at West Ham when he was sold. Now Dowling is getting criticised for signing him. Fast forward a year and it might have gone full circle again, and Grady is back on top.

What has been our net spend over the past two seasons? How much did promotion get us, £200m?

I don't think any fan can rationally argue that promotion and relegation with our budget over the past two years against our competitors is unreasonable.

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Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
« Reply #778 on: May 27, 2021, 01:41:14 PM »
Liam, you have got the wrong end of the stick. I think Dowling has done a very decent job with the limited tools available to him. Some posters think he's done a terrible job, that's their view. I have never suggested that Dowling has done a poor job due to the limited resources. I think he has got more right than wrong with the tools available to him.

Our transfer business in 2019/20 was being lauded at the time and we got promotion of the back of it. Romain Saywers was touted as the signing of the season. Ajayi similar. After relegation from the premiership fans like to vent and have someone to blame, so of course now all those plaudits from the 19/20 season are in the distance and we have this revisionism that our dealings that in those championship windows was ****-poor, which doesn't any make sense as we got promoted.

I see comments like we could have spent the money better, which never acknowledge that some signings work and some don't, it's fairyland stuff. Grady is a very good example. He was unbelievable in the Championship and flopped in the Prem. There was a riot at West Ham when he was sold. Now Dowling is getting criticised for signing him. Fast forward a year and it might have gone full circle again, and Grady is back on top.

What has been our net spend over the past two seasons? How much did promotion get us, £200m?

I don't think any fan can rationally argue that promotion and relegation with our budget over the past two years against our competitors is unreasonable.

Blimey that's a long post. However two immediate points:

Grady was not UNBELIEVABLE in the Championship, he was Ok to good, no better than that.

And there was no RIOT at West Ham. Mark Noble came out and moaned a bit and then........ West Ham had their best season since the mid 1980's. It's all suddenly gone very quiet.

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Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
« Reply #779 on: May 27, 2021, 02:47:16 PM »
Blimey that's a long post. However two immediate points:

Grady was not UNBELIEVABLE in the Championship, he was Ok to good, no better than that. And there was no RIOT at West Ham. Mark Noble came out and moaned a bit and then........ West Ham had their best season since the mid 1980's. It's all suddenly gone very quiet.

You beat me to it, I was going to say that Mark Noble wants a word. Their club captain was on sky news slagging their board off for selling Grady to us. It was big news at the time. Then like you say it's was all forgotten about after West Ham's relative success. That's football for you. I hope Diangana gets back to his best again and we can spend our time next summer arguing if we can afford to keep him or not.

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Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
« Reply #780 on: May 27, 2021, 03:08:18 PM »
You beat me to it, I was going to say that Mark Noble wants a word. Their club captain was on sky news slagging their board off for selling Grady to us. It was big news at the time. Then like you say it's was all forgotten about after West Ham's relative success. That's football for you. I hope Diangana gets back to his best again and we can spend our time next summer arguing if we can afford to keep him or not.

If we get back up the debate should be do we want to keep him, not can we afford to, going by his efforts this season. Yeah he had injuries and was possibly under used by Sam but there was very little contribution over the season. When he banged that one in at Everton I thought here we go... but unfortunately that was his last meaningful contribution.

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #781 on: May 27, 2021, 03:35:21 PM »
Just from what I saw on a few televised full games and highlights, every time Grady played,  especially under Allardyce, he spent an inordinate amount of time playing very deep trying to help out defensively. Not I am sure most will agree his natural game. The early form, playing well forward, with MP and Krovi he looked a lot more effective until his injuries. He is not an auxiliary full back, and I doubt very much that Dowling/Bilic signed him to be one.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 03:39:48 PM by wodenson46 »

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Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
« Reply #782 on: May 27, 2021, 06:18:31 PM »
If we get back up the debate should be do we want to keep him, not can we afford to, going by his efforts this season. Yeah he had injuries and was possibly under used by Sam but there was very little contribution over the season. When he banged that one in at Everton I thought here we go... but unfortunately that was his last meaningful contribution.

Not a Prem player by any stretch but should be good enough to see us through next season.

As for West Ham they just needed a season away from their vile, moaning supporters to show what a genuinely good manager can achieve.

I wonder if they want Grady back now...........

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #783 on: May 27, 2021, 07:52:04 PM »
His next decision is potentially his biggest. If its for Wilder, Dowling can't expect anything but criticism, especially if it turns out that there were more progressive, footballing managers available. 
Einstein: A definition of insanity- someone who takes the same action time after time, even though previously it's always ended in failure

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #784 on: May 27, 2021, 08:10:45 PM »
His next decision is potentially his biggest. If its for Wilder, Dowling can't expect anything but criticism, especially if it turns out that there were more progressive, footballing managers available.

From you maybe...from me - Wilder is the obvious choice. Sometimes the simple answer is the best.
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Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
« Reply #785 on: May 27, 2021, 08:38:12 PM »
Whether a matter is unrealistic is a matter of your personal opinion, but we cannot just sit here and blaming the budget and the finances to mask what some may consider an appalling job he is doing.

How much money does he have to be given before we can judge his performance accordingly?

Lets face it - this club has not been awash with money and the fans have been able to judge the likes of Ashworth, Garlick, Hammond and Terraneo despite working to similar constraints.

Both 2019/20 and 2020/21 have seen us spend monies - whether you agree with the allocated amounts - which could have been used smartly to address the weaknesses within this squad.

2019/20

The two real successful signings of that season are Pereira and Diangana who are both widely attributed to be Bilic signings.

The rest of very much of a muchness - there are no stand out talents, just merely average footballers who will likely spend the majority of their careers playing championship (or lower level football).

I'm not even going to comment on the pathetic waste of monies on Zohore. Austin might have came for a fee and high wages but at least he provided a contribution.

The comparison was drawn to Ashworth - but he built a side which could succeed in the championship but had the nucleus of being a Premier League side (as an example, Brunt, Morrison, Mulumu, Olsson, Tamas). He then added to it with the smart recruitment of the likes of Odemwingie for peanuts whereas we opted for nigh on £15m for Grant and both players are not comparable.

How much of our current crop do you reckon we can form a side that could enable to survive in the PL? Ajayi, Furlong, Sawyers are not PL quality and that is the difference between the two.

As for last season:

The pursual of getting the old band back together which from December onwards limped towards promotion - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Krovinovic despite him being a second rate star of our championship season - Dowling takes responsibility for that in not putting his foot down.

The failure to address the weaknesses in central midfield - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The appointment of a manager that was not entirely suited to this group of players - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Diangana - against his managers wishes - for nigh on £15m when he doesn't fit into the managers methods of playing - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Grant - who is nowhere near a centre forward for £15m - Dowling takes responsibility for that. He should have over-ruled Bilic given Dowling is in charge of our club going forwards.

Cedric Kipre - can anyone from the top of their heads recall what country he is currently playing in let alone team he plays for?

The decimation of our academy staff to that lot down the road - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

---

We might not be the richest club in the world, you might not agree with the budget that is set - but clubs like us have to box clever. They have to maximise their resources. We do not do that. We fall from one season to the other with no forward planning unlike clubs like Norwich, Brentford, Barnsley who are reaping the benefits of their patience and forward planning - and two of those may be swapping divisions with us.

I agree with a lot of what you say on Dowling Liam but it doesn’t seem fair on one hand say Dowling should have put his foot down on Krov and told Bilic to do one  but then on the other he should have listened about only loaning Diangana.

People seem to want a clear divide where either a manager makes signing or the DOF does. It can’t be that clear, you have to allow the manager some input but they are too short term now to have all of it.

In that respect allowing a manager a day got us Pereira. Allowing him a loan of Krov if he was adamant is not a major problem on its own.

What dowling is responsible for is the collective though. Not addressing centre mid, not seeing the squad improve, to many short term fixes, blowing the budget we did have on two players who barely plated and players who want to play the same position.

He will also be to blame if he can’t see past wilder and wants to shoe horn him in to the squad.

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #786 on: May 27, 2021, 09:55:35 PM »
Everybody's assuming the owner has no input into decision making at the club, yet it's on record that he insisted on Darren Moore.
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Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
« Reply #787 on: May 27, 2021, 10:07:46 PM »
Whether a matter is unrealistic is a matter of your personal opinion, but we cannot just sit here and blaming the budget and the finances to mask what some may consider an appalling job he is doing.

How much money does he have to be given before we can judge his performance accordingly?

Lets face it - this club has not been awash with money and the fans have been able to judge the likes of Ashworth, Garlick, Hammond and Terraneo despite working to similar constraints.

Both 2019/20 and 2020/21 have seen us spend monies - whether you agree with the allocated amounts - which could have been used smartly to address the weaknesses within this squad.

2019/20

The two real successful signings of that season are Pereira and Diangana who are both widely attributed to be Bilic signings.

The rest of very much of a muchness - there are no stand out talents, just merely average footballers who will likely spend the majority of their careers playing championship (or lower level football).

I'm not even going to comment on the pathetic waste of monies on Zohore. Austin might have came for a fee and high wages but at least he provided a contribution.

The comparison was drawn to Ashworth - but he built a side which could succeed in the championship but had the nucleus of being a Premier League side (as an example, Brunt, Morrison, Mulumu, Olsson, Tamas). He then added to it with the smart recruitment of the likes of Odemwingie for peanuts whereas we opted for nigh on £15m for Grant and both players are not comparable.

How much of our current crop do you reckon we can form a side that could enable to survive in the PL? Ajayi, Furlong, Sawyers are not PL quality and that is the difference between the two.

As for last season:

The pursual of getting the old band back together which from December onwards limped towards promotion - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Krovinovic despite him being a second rate star of our championship season - Dowling takes responsibility for that in not putting his foot down.

The failure to address the weaknesses in central midfield - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The appointment of a manager that was not entirely suited to this group of players - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Diangana - against his managers wishes - for nigh on £15m when he doesn't fit into the managers methods of playing - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Grant - who is nowhere near a centre forward for £15m - Dowling takes responsibility for that. He should have over-ruled Bilic given Dowling is in charge of our club going forwards.

Cedric Kipre - can anyone from the top of their heads recall what country he is currently playing in let alone team he plays for?

The decimation of our academy staff to that lot down the road - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

---

We might not be the richest club in the world, you might not agree with the budget that is set - but clubs like us have to box clever. They have to maximise their resources. We do not do that. We fall from one season to the other with no forward planning unlike clubs like Norwich, Brentford, Barnsley who are reaping the benefits of their patience and forward planning - and two of those may be swapping divisions with us.
Agree with nearly all of this , the Krov issue I can accept as you do have to bend within reason . I wouldn't have got him back but at least it was a loan .
Totally correct on standing up to the Grant signing and with problems elsewhere I had mixed feeling lumping that amount on Grady . Above is money that could have been used better clearly , talking of money I see both Austin and Grosiki have Today gone so thats no return money wise and not huge amounts on the pitch . We have got to get away from signing players with not much left /  early 30's .
Solid points on the rest of it and no I have no idea of where Kipre is from . ;D
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Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
« Reply #788 on: May 27, 2021, 10:56:02 PM »
Agree with nearly all of this , the Krov issue I can accept as you do have to bend within reason . I wouldn't have got him back but at least it was a loan .
Totally correct on standing up to the Grant signing and with problems elsewhere I had mixed feeling lumping that amount on Grady . Above is money that could have been used better clearly , talking of money I see both Austin and Grosiki have Today gone so thats no return money wise and not huge amounts on the pitch . We have got to get away from signing players with not much left /  early 30's .
Solid points on the rest of it and no I have no idea of where Kipre is from . ;D

Grant and Grady.

It's really that simple.

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #789 on: May 31, 2021, 07:46:39 PM »
I knew that Kipre was on loan at Charleroi as it's the same team as Berahino is also on loan at. No idea how well Kipre did for them though!
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #790 on: May 31, 2021, 08:00:11 PM »
From what I can tell Kipre made just 5 starts for Charleroi
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #791 on: May 31, 2021, 08:02:40 PM »
From what I can tell Kipre made just 5 starts for Charleroi

Yeah, I had a quick look on Transfermarkt after I'd posted. 5 appearances 4 on the bench and 3 yellow cards!
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #792 on: May 31, 2021, 09:16:33 PM »
Yet based on his performances for Wigan, he's arguably our best centre back.
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #793 on: May 31, 2021, 09:17:47 PM »
Yeah, I had a quick look on Transfermarkt after I'd posted. 5 appearances 4 on the bench and 3 yellow cards!
Puts his foot in then

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #794 on: May 31, 2021, 10:51:10 PM »
For all the criticism of our recruitment under Dowling it’s a hell of a lot better than what Chris Wilder did at Sheff Utd after spending £120m net.

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #795 on: June 01, 2021, 05:22:00 AM »
Yet based on his performances for Wigan, he's arguably our best centre back.
He is indeed
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #796 on: June 01, 2021, 08:52:29 AM »
For all the criticism of our recruitment under Dowling it’s a hell of a lot better than what Chris Wilder did at Sheff Utd after spending £120m net.
Great pair these two will make .
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #797 on: June 03, 2021, 11:38:48 AM »
Our once great youth set up was stripped by Dowling, they are now doing a pretty good job over at the Villa.
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #798 on: June 03, 2021, 12:03:51 PM »
We just need to believe in Dowling  :-\ :-X

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Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
« Reply #799 on: June 03, 2021, 12:10:52 PM »
Whether a matter is unrealistic is a matter of your personal opinion, but we cannot just sit here and blaming the budget and the finances to mask what some may consider an appalling job he is doing.

How much money does he have to be given before we can judge his performance accordingly?

Lets face it - this club has not been awash with money and the fans have been able to judge the likes of Ashworth, Garlick, Hammond and Terraneo despite working to similar constraints.

Both 2019/20 and 2020/21 have seen us spend monies - whether you agree with the allocated amounts - which could have been used smartly to address the weaknesses within this squad.

2019/20

The two real successful signings of that season are Pereira and Diangana who are both widely attributed to be Bilic signings.

The rest of very much of a muchness - there are no stand out talents, just merely average footballers who will likely spend the majority of their careers playing championship (or lower level football).

I'm not even going to comment on the pathetic waste of monies on Zohore. Austin might have came for a fee and high wages but at least he provided a contribution.

The comparison was drawn to Ashworth - but he built a side which could succeed in the championship but had the nucleus of being a Premier League side (as an example, Brunt, Morrison, Mulumu, Olsson, Tamas). He then added to it with the smart recruitment of the likes of Odemwingie for peanuts whereas we opted for nigh on £15m for Grant and both players are not comparable.

How much of our current crop do you reckon we can form a side that could enable to survive in the PL? Ajayi, Furlong, Sawyers are not PL quality and that is the difference between the two.

As for last season:

The pursual of getting the old band back together which from December onwards limped towards promotion - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Krovinovic despite him being a second rate star of our championship season - Dowling takes responsibility for that in not putting his foot down.

The failure to address the weaknesses in central midfield - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The appointment of a manager that was not entirely suited to this group of players - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Diangana - against his managers wishes - for nigh on £15m when he doesn't fit into the managers methods of playing - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Grant - who is nowhere near a centre forward for £15m - Dowling takes responsibility for that. He should have over-ruled Bilic given Dowling is in charge of our club going forwards.

Cedric Kipre - can anyone from the top of their heads recall what country he is currently playing in let alone team he plays for?

The decimation of our academy staff to that lot down the road - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

---

We might not be the richest club in the world, you might not agree with the budget that is set - but clubs like us have to box clever. They have to maximise their resources. We do not do that. We fall from one season to the other with no forward planning unlike clubs like Norwich, Brentford, Barnsley who are reaping the benefits of their patience and forward planning - and two of those may be swapping divisions with us.
Kipre plays for an African side I think not sure who though edit plays for Ivory Coast who was going to say due to Fifa. He was born in France though
« Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 12:13:01 PM by BaggieBoy04 »
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