Author Topic: Luke Dowling  (Read 28889 times)

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Dexy

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #525 on: May 03, 2021, 09:57:55 PM »
Callum Robinson was a fantastic signing, has been criminally under used and Chris Wilder should hang his head in shame for swapping him with Oliver Burke. That was a great bit of business by Dowling.

Grant was signed to play upfront, not left midfield like Grady was. He was our cheaper version of Ollie Watkins. Sadly when you sign an imitation you often get what you pay for.
We got lucky Wilder was daft enough to do that( one reason I don't want him here ) , Robinson was a Bilic pick first off .
See the Grant thing ....as Technical Director Dowling should not  be allowing that signing imo . A player whose natural position is anything but a lone forward , signed on a long deal for a big chunk of our budget . Add to that he has limited top flight experience and has looked a limited player whenever I've seen him .
Dowling hangs himself with his British first shopping , look at Diange ...another level to Grant in that role . That deal or someone like could have been done in the Summer instead of this problem we now have on much less money and not a 6 year deal .
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #526 on: May 03, 2021, 10:12:59 PM »
We got lucky Wilder was daft enough to do that( one reason I don't want him here ) , Robinson was a Bilic pick first off .
See the Grant thing ....as Technical Director Dowling should not  be allowing that signing imo . A player whose natural position is anything but a lone forward , signed on a long deal for a big chunk of our budget . Add to that he has limited top flight experience and has looked a limited player whenever I've seen him .
Dowling hangs himself with his British first shopping , look at Diange ...another level to Grant in that role . That deal or someone like could have been done in the Summer instead of this problem we now have on much less money and not a 6 year deal .

Robinson and Grant were both Bilic picks, one worked and one failed.  I don't rate Grant much either, although from what has been reported Bilic wanted him in sooner. The fact we are paying the transfer fee over six years it a benefit to us - i.e. good negotiations from our technical director. We can only second guess what goes on behind the scenes. What I find amusing is fans trying to assign players they like to managers they prefer and signings they don't onto Dowling. I'm sure Allardyce does have a decent agent phonebook and contacts which have helped. I recall several players Bilic wanted in the summer that sadly our budget at that time would not sanction.


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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #527 on: May 03, 2021, 10:27:42 PM »
Robinson and Grant were both Bilic picks, one worked and one failed.  I don't rate Grant much either, although from what has been reported Bilic wanted him in sooner. The fact we are paying the transfer fee over six years it a benefit to us - i.e. good negotiations from our technical director. We can only second guess what goes on behind the scenes. What I find amusing is fans trying to assign players they like to managers they prefer and signings they don't onto Dowling. I'm sure Allardyce does have a decent agent phonebook and contacts which have helped. I recall several players Bilic wanted in the summer that sadly our budget at that time would not sanction.
Your getting away from the point , Grady I can handle although I made my view on his potential injuries earlier .
If i was a manager and I came to you in the Summer before a top flight season and said I want to spend a big percentage of our transfer budget on a wide forward and play him in a lone role he's not used to would you allow it like Dowling did ?  When theres much better value elsewhere ? . No I don't think you would having seen your other posts on here .
We could go on all night , limited funds yes but I and quite a few others have had enough of Dowling ...he's had his go IMO . He's out of his depth at this level if we ever return and his British first attitude kills us before we start .
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 10:30:02 PM by Dexy »
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #528 on: May 03, 2021, 10:46:03 PM »
If this bloke wanted to sign Snodgrass, Okay and Diagne in summer then it's another reason I don't want him here next season. He's head of recruitment but bowed to pressure from Bilic to sign Grant and Krovinovic instead bloke is weak willed which is not what you want from sporting director.

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #529 on: May 03, 2021, 11:13:20 PM »
Hopefully in the absence of him losing his job, he sits down with Sam, gets told how it is and how it's going to be, and out of pure self preservation accedes to any and all demands, gives him a 3 year deal and this time in 2 years we're midtable Premier League and a saleable asset once again.
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #530 on: May 03, 2021, 11:21:38 PM »
Your getting away from the point , Grady I can handle although I made my view on his potential injuries earlier. If i was a manager and I came to you in the Summer before a top flight season and said I want to spend a big percentage of our transfer budget on a wide forward and play him in a lone role he's not used to would you allow it like Dowling did ?  When theres much better value elsewhere ? . No I don't think you would having seen your other posts on here . We could go on all night , limited funds yes but I and quite a few others have had enough of Dowling ...he's had his go IMO . He's out of his depth at this level if we ever return and his British first attitude kills us before we start .

Everyone seems to think our January business was pretty good and that is under Dowling and Allardyce, so I don't see this huge problem that you see. Over the years we have signed plenty of trash from aboard as well as from the UK market. Remember Zuiverloon and Bifouma? Or Sebastian Blanco? Or Rosenberg or Varela? Then there was Gamboa, the midget full back. Brown Ideye who cost a fortune and was useless worth a mention as well. Plenty of signings don't work out, that has always been the case. Overall over the last two season we have done more than okay compared to what we have spent. Pereira alone this summer could attract a transfer fee equal to our budget over the last two years.

The budget this season was way too short in the summer. I can't say that the club has underperformed against that. The technical director, managers, coaches and players have delivered what I would have expected, a reasonably go at things but found to be lacking.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 11:26:32 PM by baggie82 »

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #531 on: May 03, 2021, 11:49:56 PM »
Dowling came in in late September 2018, so after Darren Moore's summer window. Dowling's first window was January 2019. I started a big post taking each window apart and seeing not only how the players did for us, but also since moving on, as sometimes you can bring the right player in but it just doesn't work out (see many Villa players under Sherwood).

To cut a long story short, in less than three years we've reduced the age of the squad by a good margin, but neglected to strengthen properly in some key areas. I was certainly hoping for more from Dowling
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #532 on: May 04, 2021, 02:10:39 AM »
I'm no huge fan of Dowling but if he goes, I'd be concerned about who's selecting his replacement?


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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #533 on: May 04, 2021, 05:26:56 AM »
Everyone seems to think our January business was pretty good and that is under Dowling and Allardyce, so I don't see this huge problem that you see. Over the years we have signed plenty of trash from aboard as well as from the UK market. Remember Zuiverloon and Bifouma? Or Sebastian Blanco? Or Rosenberg or Varela? Then there was Gamboa, the midget full back. Brown Ideye who cost a fortune and was useless worth a mention as well. Plenty of signings don't work out, that has always been the case. Overall over the last two season we have done more than okay compared to what we have spent. Pereira alone this summer could attract a transfer fee equal to our budget over the last two years.

The budget this season was way too short in the summer. I can't say that the club has underperformed against that. The technical director, managers, coaches and players have delivered what I would have expected, a reasonably go at things but found to be lacking.
The Winter window signings were impressive but lets not kid ourselves thats Allardyce pushing for those , the frustrating thing is those are the sort of players that needed adding during the Summer not the sort who arrived .Lets not forget we had to out Austin , Zohore and tried with Grosiki before we could do the Winter deals. Who was behind all three of those deals? .....yes thats right Dowling .
If your short on budget then you have to use what you have wisely , its my view he didn't and to not use the unlimited overseas loan market was asking for this mess on top of Grant .
Bottom line is no Tech Director worth his salt allows his side to go into a Premier season with so many areas that were clearly failing months before , certainly the axis of Livermore and Sawyers is unforgivable .
As Jacko says the only way Dowling should survive is if Allardyce stays and even then I'm not sure on that .
Edit please don't try and bring Pereira into it , all Bilic's doing . He's everything Dowling tries to avoid in a signing .
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 05:29:38 AM by Dexy »
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #534 on: May 04, 2021, 06:43:03 AM »
Hopefully in the absence of him losing his job, he sits down with Sam, gets told how it is and how it's going to be, and out of pure self preservation accedes to any and all demands, gives him a 3 year deal and this time in 2 years we're midtable Premier League and a saleable asset once again.
Or ... we’re stuck in the Championship with an aging squad full of journeymen with no money playing mind numbing football but grinding out some great draws against Coventry, Blues, Peterborough......

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #535 on: May 04, 2021, 11:02:30 AM »
Or ... we’re stuck in the Championship with an aging squad full of journeymen with no money playing mind numbing football but grinding out some great draws against Coventry, Blues, Peterborough......

This is far more likely if we go down the new manager route...
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #536 on: May 04, 2021, 11:21:43 AM »
This is far more likely if we go down the new manager route...

If we go down the new manager route the only thing I can guarantee is that we will start the season with a midfield two of Livermore and Sawyers.


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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #537 on: May 04, 2021, 11:38:35 AM »
If we go down the new manager route the only thing I can guarantee is that we will start the season with a midfield two of Livermore and Sawyers.

Allardyce is worth keeping for that reason alone. I cant stand another season of those pair in midfield.

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #538 on: May 04, 2021, 12:53:51 PM »
Where did the idea that it was Dowling not Bilic who wanted Diangana signed permanently actually come from ? I distinctly remember Bilic talking about recruitment pre season saying the likes of 'it's important we first secure the people who got us up'. From that I would assume Pereira, Krov and Diangana.
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #539 on: May 04, 2021, 12:55:39 PM »
Where did the idea that it was Dowling not Bilic who wanted Diangana signed permanently actually come from ? I distinctly remember Bilic talking about recruitment pre season saying the likes of 'it's important we first secure the people who got us up'. From that I would assume Pereira, Krov and Diangana.

If I am remembering correctly it came from Steve Madeley.

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #540 on: May 04, 2021, 12:57:10 PM »
Where did the idea that it was Dowling not Bilic who wanted Diangana signed permanently actually come from ? I distinctly remember Bilic talking about recruitment pre season saying the likes of 'it's important we first secure the people who got us up'. From that I would assume Pereira, Krov and Diangana.

There was a story going round virtually as soon as the window closed that Dowling insisted on Diangana as a statement signing amid tenuous links to Villa, while Bilić thought he'd be able to get him on loan nearer the end of the window.
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #541 on: May 04, 2021, 01:01:06 PM »
There was a story going round virtually as soon as the window closed that Dowling insisted on Diangana as a statement signing amid tenuous links to Villa, while Bilić thought he'd be able to get him on loan nearer the end of the window.
OK so a story going around.
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #542 on: May 04, 2021, 01:03:17 PM »
OK so a story going around.

As someone said, possibly Madeley but definitely an actual written story. Why don't you look back through the thread to find out?
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #543 on: May 04, 2021, 01:20:00 PM »
As someone said, possibly Madeley but definitely an actual written story. Why don't you look back through the thread to find out?
People have stated it recently so maybe they could look back through the thread. If it happened so be it but its the type of thing that you wonder who would be the source who actually says to a journalist  'Slaven only wanted him on loan but this is Dowling's statement signing'. 
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #544 on: May 04, 2021, 01:49:59 PM »
I've no issue with the signing of Diangana - he was one of our star players the previous season and we thought we had no chance to sign him.  Just looking at the reaction from the West Ham fans (and players) show how he was held in high regard. 

He struggled early on - as did all the team - and for some reason Sam won't give him any minutes.

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #545 on: May 04, 2021, 02:05:13 PM »
People have stated it recently so maybe they could look back through the thread. If it happened so be it but its the type of thing that you wonder who would be the source who actually says to a journalist  'Slaven only wanted him on loan but this is Dowling's statement signing'.

If I recall correctly, it was Bilic himself (when he left) who said he was happy to wait for Dianagana on loan, but Dowling thought he would be a good investment, so chose to buy him at a significant cost (Around £18 million I believe)

There's a line about it here....

Quote
interestingly, Bilic also had doubts over West Brom’s decision to make Grady Diangana’s loan deal permanent for £18 million, fearing such a massive outlay would inhibit his ability to bring in other arrivals.


Read more here
https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2020/12/18/report-bilic-didnt-want-dowling-signing-at-west-brom-also-rejected-experienced-pl-man/


As I understand it, that's why the deal for Grant had to be structured, also, the commentary team last night confirmed that Okay & Diagne were identified in the summer, but there are allegations that the cost of the Diangana purchase prevented us from pursuing them until January.
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #546 on: May 04, 2021, 06:32:25 PM »
OK cheers, at least I know where that came from. Bilic obviously wanted him as indicated by his statements about securing the players who got us up....but not at that price it seems.
I really hope Diangana can get his fitness and confidence back, suspect the two go hand in hand with him.
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #547 on: May 04, 2021, 09:34:52 PM »
What concerns me about relegation is that we will probably lose 6 of our best players from this season. There is absolutely no guarentee about their replacements. That's why its daft to make definite predictions about where we will finish.  Most of the midfield and forward departments will need to be replaced or re-structured and probably a new keeper brought in. Only the back line looks fairly settled.   
From the existing midfielders and forwards in our first team squad, I think that only Diangana, Phillips, Robinson and maybe Edwards are at a level we can use regularly.

Getting the right new players in will be absolutely crucial.  I'd feel a bit more confident of getting the right players in with a manager who has a more expansive attacking philosophy than Allardyce. In practice, what kind of players would SA want to attract?   
Experienced players, probably nearing the end of their careers?

But in practice there are no gurarentees about whether the players brought in will deliver, irrespective of whether its Allardyce. Having sufficient funds available is  important, but its no guarentee,  Grant being a good example of that.
Sometimes cheaper players may do a better job.
Dowling, with whoever is manager, have got some crucial decisions to make.
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #548 on: May 04, 2021, 11:13:49 PM »
I've no issue with the signing of Diangana - he was one of our star players the previous season and we thought we had no chance to sign him.  Just looking at the reaction from the West Ham fans (and players) show how he was held in high regard. 

He struggled early on - as did all the team - and for some reason Sam won't give him any minutes.

On paper it was a good signing but it further demonstrated the disconnect between Dowling and Bilic.

There was no use in blowing a significant portion of our budget on GD only for the head coach to adopt a three at the back policy which nullified all three of our forward acquisitions (GD, MP, KG and to an extent CR).

The money would have been better used elsewhere if that was the case but those should have been discussions ironed out by Dowling and Bilic.
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #549 on: May 05, 2021, 10:14:49 AM »
My biggest gripe with Dowling is the lack of a clear plan to create a long-standing play-style. We went from a squad largely made up of those who got us relegated under Pulis/Pardew, to a non-descript possession based team under Moore and Bilic, and have since used those players plus some loanees to get us to a point where we play Allardyce football with limited success.

As I said previously, he has lowered the age of the squad, which is a huge positive. But if you looked at the squad we had, and the squad we have now, can you really say much progress has been made?
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