Poll

Will you be taking up your option of receiving the Covid vaccine.

Yes
90 (86.5%)
No
11 (10.6%)
Undecided
3 (2.9%)

Total Members Voted: 104

Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 598346 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

section5

  • Youth Baggie

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 478
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8400 on: June 10, 2021, 04:05:47 PM »
I think you have missed something

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.dw.com/en/coronavirus-swedens-new-covid-lockdown-law-takes-effect/a-56185101

You do realise it’s not a one size fits all approach to tackling this virus.

You cannot pick up one country and then claim that’s how it should have been done when there are a huge amount of factors involved.

Truth is Sweden has had lockdowns, they have had social distancing, they have had to wear masks, they are a country that already has work from home in place.

I think it’s a poor argument myself




The article you’ve sent is dated prior to the both I’ve sent(which state these powers were not used?)

The article you’ve sent makes no mention of any lockdown imposed, rather the granting of the emergency power to implement it if needed; the article says  “Sweden's government, which has long shunned strict curbs, now has the power to act more forcefully to halt the spread of the coronavirus. The new law could be used any day amid a surge in cases”
Nothing says they have implemented it?

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/covid-sweden-lockdown-deaths-study-b1846216.html%3famp

And research shows that a full lockdown would have potentially saved 1000s of lives of those who died.

You can’t just take a snippet of info to make an informed opinion. Check out the factors involved before copying and pasting

That is definitely something I’ve not done(if you’ve read my previous posts you’ll see the countless other articles and studies referenced)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/covid-sweden-lockdown-deaths-study-b1846216.html%3famp

So 2,000 deaths extra equates to (2,000/10,200,000 x 100,000) 19.670 per 100k for Sweden

Going back to the stats “According to the John Hopkins mortality analyses Sweden’s deaths per 100k stands at 141.42 as opposed to the UK’s 191.69”
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

The lockdowns would have had a minute benefit statistically for Sweden in terms of death from covid (19 per 100,000) which in my opinion is hard to justify when balancing against the risks of lockdowns both economic and health wise.

One thing the Swedes got right in my opinion was “ relying on voluntary measures focused on social distancing, good hygiene and targeted rules that have kept schools, restaurants and shops largely open”.

Don’t get how it’s a poor argument, the article you’ve sent me is about the Swedish government in January 2021 having the capability of implementing their emergency powers if they so wish - which I can’t see being done anywhere? Our deaths per 100k are worse than Sweden’s- it’s valid to see how they did that without destroying their economy,healthcare and education systems and why we’ve fared so poorly.

I do realise it’s not a one size fit all situation when it comes to covid so why isn’t the same said about lockdowns when questioning it? The argument is always “others countries do it/did it” so why is that a one size fit all for that particular side of the argument?

tommcneill

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 13626
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8401 on: June 10, 2021, 07:44:07 PM »

The article you’ve sent is dated prior to the both I’ve sent(which state these powers were not used?)

The article you’ve sent makes no mention of any lockdown imposed, rather the granting of the emergency power to implement it if needed; the article says  “Sweden's government, which has long shunned strict curbs, now has the power to act more forcefully to halt the spread of the coronavirus. The new law could be used any day amid a surge in cases”
Nothing says they have implemented it?

That is definitely something I’ve not done(if you’ve read my previous posts you’ll see the countless other articles and studies referenced)

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/covid-sweden-lockdown-deaths-study-b1846216.html%3famp

So 2,000 deaths extra equates to (2,000/10,200,000 x 100,000) 19.670 per 100k for Sweden

Going back to the stats “According to the John Hopkins mortality analyses Sweden’s deaths per 100k stands at 141.42 as opposed to the UK’s 191.69”
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

The lockdowns would have had a minute benefit statistically for Sweden in terms of death from covid (19 per 100,000) which in my opinion is hard to justify when balancing against the risks of lockdowns both economic and health wise.

One thing the Swedes got right in my opinion was “ relying on voluntary measures focused on social distancing, good hygiene and targeted rules that have kept schools, restaurants and shops largely open”.

Don’t get how it’s a poor argument, the article you’ve sent me is about the Swedish government in January 2021 having the capability of implementing their emergency powers if they so wish - which I can’t see being done anywhere? Our deaths per 100k are worse than Sweden’s- it’s valid to see how they did that without destroying their economy,healthcare and education systems and why we’ve fared so poorly.

I do realise it’s not a one size fit all situation when it comes to covid so why isn’t the same said about lockdowns when questioning it? The argument is always “others countries do it/did it” so why is that a one size fit all for that particular side of the argument?

There has been plenty of real life reports of Sweden having done lockdowns, not full on like ours but lockdowns all the same, they’ve followed all the other advice and have other factors involved that makes it different how they approach it.

I’ve not said one size fits all for lockdowns or not lockdowns. Not sure why you brought that to the debate. Our lockdown is different to other countries.

Everyone has done different things.

And 2000 odd less deaths is better than 2000 odd more deaths don’t you think? Or for your freedoms did they deserve to die?
Dexy : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Adder : Hull Baggie : lewisant : Political Cake : tommcneill

its not just the winning thats important...its rubbing the losers face in it after that counts

section5

  • Youth Baggie

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 478
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8402 on: June 10, 2021, 08:53:19 PM »
There has been plenty of real life reports of Sweden having done lockdowns, not full on like ours but lockdowns all the same, they’ve followed all the other advice and have other factors involved that makes it different how they approach it.

I’ve not said one size fits all for lockdowns or not lockdowns. Not sure why you brought that to the debate. Our lockdown is different to other countries.

Everyone has done different things.

And 2000 odd less deaths is better than 2000 odd more deaths don’t you think? Or for your freedoms did they deserve to die?

I haven’t seen any sort of lockdowns in Sweden; facilities and services have ran as normal, hygiene recommendations have been in place such as hand washing, voluntary measures etc.

My point is whether that trade off for lockdown is worth it at a benefit of 19 deaths per 100k considering the casualties lockdown will bring in the long term economically and medically as well as short term-as seen by the startling figures from the BMA report for the U.K.

As a parent I’d much rather have been in Sweden than in the U.K. during the pandemic for my children, the lost time from education is of serious concern along with other elements of their development. It’s unacceptable how politicised the whole thing has become with essentially children getting the rough end of it missing out vital years, and the elderly getting tossed into care homes and left to fend for themselves while spreading the virus amongst the most vulnerable.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 08:58:02 PM by section5 »

tommcneill

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 13626
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8403 on: June 10, 2021, 09:04:05 PM »
I haven’t seen any sort of lockdowns in Sweden; facilities and services have ran as normal, hygiene recommendations have been in place such as hand washing, voluntary measures etc.

My point is whether that trade off for lockdown is worth it at a benefit of 19 deaths per 100k considering the casualties lockdown will bring in the long term economically and medically as well as short term-as seen by the startling figures from the BMA report for the U.K.

As a parent I’d much rather have been in Sweden than in the U.K. during the pandemic for my children, the lost time from education is of serious concern along with other elements of their development. It’s unacceptable how politicised the whole thing has become with essentially children getting the rough end of it missing out vital years, and the elderly getting tossed into care homes and left to fend for themselves while spreading the virus amongst the most vulnerable.

Well we think very differently then.

As for the kids getting the rough end, I don’t agree in the slightest. I’ve had the most amazing 16-17 months having time with my kids, I’ll never, and they’ll never, get that time together again. And that’s a view shared by nearly every parent I’ve spoken to so far. I’ve learnt more about my family and seen more progress in my girls than at anytime in the years preceding all of this.

Apart from not being able to visit anyone or goto places for socialising I’ve enjoyed the lockdown and used it to my advantage
Dexy : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Adder : Hull Baggie : lewisant : Political Cake : tommcneill

its not just the winning thats important...its rubbing the losers face in it after that counts

Albionic

  • Site Donator
  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 7022
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8404 on: June 11, 2021, 08:30:50 AM »
Well we think very differently then.

As for the kids getting the rough end, I don’t agree in the slightest. I’ve had the most amazing 16-17 months having time with my kids, I’ll never, and they’ll never, get that time together again. And that’s a view shared by nearly every parent I’ve spoken to so far. I’ve learnt more about my family and seen more progress in my girls than at anytime in the years preceding all of this.

Apart from not being able to visit anyone or goto places for socialising I’ve enjoyed the lockdown and used it to my advantage

Thats a view I hadnt heard before and great to hear, my lad is 31 now and we have seen very little of him during lockdown which is sad, but we are all still here, so count our blessings. Its really great that you have had time with your kids as it seems to fly past and is gone so quickly, proper cheered me up that post, thanks
Lovin the championship, just lovin it !

tommcneill

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 13626
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8405 on: June 11, 2021, 08:29:52 PM »
Thats a view I hadnt heard before and great to hear, my lad is 31 now and we have seen very little of him during lockdown which is sad, but we are all still here, so count our blessings. Its really great that you have had time with your kids as it seems to fly past and is gone so quickly, proper cheered me up that post, thanks

You’re welcome.

I take the positives from everything in life. Now the kids are back in school I’m missing them being around. I’m not back FT at work till July 5th
Dexy : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Adder : Hull Baggie : lewisant : Political Cake : tommcneill

its not just the winning thats important...its rubbing the losers face in it after that counts

gazberg

  • WBA Coach

  • Online
  • ******

  • 8053
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8406 on: June 14, 2021, 06:33:21 PM »
Confirmation of just another 4 weeks of enforced lockdown but still no plans/schemes to enforce irresponsible people to lose weight for themselves which will reduce the risk of harm/death more than any vaccine.

section5

  • Youth Baggie

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 478
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8407 on: June 14, 2021, 06:38:32 PM »
Fine for the elite to have their g7 bbq maskless and with no social distancing

gazberg

  • WBA Coach

  • Online
  • ******

  • 8053
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8408 on: June 14, 2021, 06:39:02 PM »
Fine for the elite to have their g7 bbq maskless and with no social distancing

Yeah you have to laugh. One rule for them, one for us.

tommcneill

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 13626
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8409 on: June 14, 2021, 06:40:50 PM »
Confirmation of just another 4 weeks of enforced lockdown but still no plans/schemes to enforce irresponsible people to lose weight for themselves which will reduce the risk of harm/death more than any vaccine.

I thought people didn’t want the government telling them what to do with their lives??

There is enough info and marketing out there about why looking after your health is vital. It’s not some hidden secret.

We don’t need the government to tell us.

Plus their is pages on the gov.uk and NHS sites regarding losing weight.

Plenty of people on FB doing health and weight loss (my wife does this) businesses. If people still need telling then I’m not sure they ever will change their lifestyles
Dexy : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Adder : Hull Baggie : lewisant : Political Cake : tommcneill

its not just the winning thats important...its rubbing the losers face in it after that counts

tommcneill

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 13626
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8410 on: June 14, 2021, 06:42:31 PM »
Fine for the elite to have their g7 bbq maskless and with no social distancing

What did they do that you couldn’t?

They were masked inside.

They had less than 30 outside together.

I’ve seen this posted a few times and it still doesn’t make sense because they were doing what you are capable of doing
Dexy : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Adder : Hull Baggie : lewisant : Political Cake : tommcneill

its not just the winning thats important...its rubbing the losers face in it after that counts

gazberg

  • WBA Coach

  • Online
  • ******

  • 8053
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8411 on: June 14, 2021, 06:45:44 PM »
I thought people didn’t want the government telling them what to do with their lives??

There is enough info and marketing out there about why looking after your health is vital. It’s not some hidden secret.

We don’t need the government to tell us.

Plus their is pages on the gov.uk and NHS sites regarding losing weight.

Plenty of people on FB doing health and weight loss (my wife does this) businesses. If people still need telling then I’m not sure they ever will change their lifestyles


My point is the government have been keen to take peoples lives away from them in the name of 'saving lives' while the rich and powerful themselves have benefited grotesquely from lockdowns.

The most effective way for people to protect themselves from covid19 is not lockdowns, it's not even vaccines. It's to take care of themselves to the extent they are not obese. That's it. That's the difference maker and it's been known for many months now.

The government won't promote this solution though as it's detrimental to the publics reliance on the state and also will hit many ministers hard in their pockets in the companies they are invested in.

gerry m

  • Senior Baggie

  • Online
  • *****

  • 3032
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8412 on: June 14, 2021, 06:47:09 PM »
Yeah you have to laugh. One rule for them, one for us.

Took the words right out of my mouth mate!.

tommcneill

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 13626
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8413 on: June 14, 2021, 06:47:13 PM »

My point is the government have been keen to take peoples lives away from them in the name of 'saving lives' while the rich and powerful themselves have benefited grotesquely from lockdowns.

The most effective way for people to protect themselves from covid19 is not lockdowns, it's not even vaccines. It's to take care of themselves to the extent they are not obese. That's it. That's the difference maker and it's been known for many months now.

The government won't promote this solution though as it's detrimental to the publics reliance on the state and also will hit many ministers hard in their pockets in the companies they are invested in.

It’s not just losing weight at all….who told you that?

When stopping a transmissible virus losing weight doesn’t stop it spreading but limiting social contact does
Dexy : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Adder : Hull Baggie : lewisant : Political Cake : tommcneill

its not just the winning thats important...its rubbing the losers face in it after that counts

tommcneill

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 13626
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8414 on: June 14, 2021, 06:47:58 PM »
Took the words right out of my mouth mate!.

Why did it?

They haven’t done anything you can’t do
Dexy : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Adder : Hull Baggie : lewisant : Political Cake : tommcneill

its not just the winning thats important...its rubbing the losers face in it after that counts

gazberg

  • WBA Coach

  • Online
  • ******

  • 8053
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8415 on: June 14, 2021, 06:48:21 PM »
I've just read that the vaccines are 94% and 96% effective against the new 'end of times' Indian variant so on a par with not being a fat slob as a remedy.

It’s not just losing weight at all….who told you that?

When stopping a transmissible virus losing weight doesn’t stop it spreading but limiting social contact does

The vast majority of victims are obese. It's been known for months.

BB74

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 4507
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8416 on: June 14, 2021, 06:50:40 PM »
What did they do that you couldn’t?

They were masked inside.

They had less than 30 outside together.

I’ve seen this posted a few times and it still doesn’t make sense because they were doing what you are capable of doing

They didn’t self isolate upon arrival from a red/amber country as we would have to.

tommcneill

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 13626
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8417 on: June 14, 2021, 06:50:52 PM »
I've just read that the vaccines are 94% and 96% effective against the new 'end of times' Indian variant so on a par with not being a fat slob as a remedy.

The vast majority of victims are obese. It's been known for months.

Known by who?

I know of several people who have had it and had it bad, one with irreparable lung damage and another with problems still now.

Neither are obese.

I’ve been watching this virus closely and researching a lot and that’s the first time I’ve ever seen that mentioned.
Dexy : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Adder : Hull Baggie : lewisant : Political Cake : tommcneill

its not just the winning thats important...its rubbing the losers face in it after that counts

tommcneill

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 13626
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8418 on: June 14, 2021, 06:51:35 PM »
They didn’t self isolate upon arrival from a red/amber country as we would have to.

They also are tested daily. And were here.
Dexy : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Adder : Hull Baggie : lewisant : Political Cake : tommcneill

its not just the winning thats important...its rubbing the losers face in it after that counts

BB74

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 4507
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8419 on: June 14, 2021, 06:53:09 PM »
They also are tested daily. And were here.

But you stated they can do what we can do but they can’t. They got off a plane and cracked on with their visit no isolation in a hotel or the likes.

TheJacko2000

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 15588
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8420 on: June 14, 2021, 06:54:40 PM »
There is no longer any justification for delay. I feel for the people who have been taken in by this huge propaganda machine.
Proud to be a Baggie. BOING BOING.

tommcneill

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 13626
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8421 on: June 14, 2021, 06:55:07 PM »
But you stated they can do what we can do but they can’t. They got off a plane and cracked on with their visit no isolation in a hotel or the likes.

And I’m sure if your job was as important as a world leader and were tested daily it wouldn’t be an issue either.

My reply was regarding being outside in groups of 30 or less and masks as the guy I replied to stated
Dexy : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Adder : Hull Baggie : lewisant : Political Cake : tommcneill

its not just the winning thats important...its rubbing the losers face in it after that counts

gazberg

  • WBA Coach

  • Online
  • ******

  • 8053
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8422 on: June 14, 2021, 06:56:34 PM »
Known by who?

I know of several people who have had it and had it bad, one with irreparable lung damage and another with problems still now.

Neither are obese.

I’ve been watching this virus closely and researching a lot and that’s the first time I’ve ever seen that mentioned.


Look up the data mate. It wasn't known at the start of the virus outbreak or even last summer but i'd say after Xmas time they started pulling together the years data from 2020 in total and when they starting releasing the findings around Feb/March 2021 time that worldwide, regardless of population density, age, economic status etc the one theme was that around 90% of victims were overweight. The news was suppressed in MSM media so you had to go directly to the government/science sites and fanny about but it was all there. I saw it mentioned somewhere last week as well but quickly gets buried. Next time i see reports on it will post the link mate.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2021, 06:58:56 PM by gazberg »

tommcneill

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 13626
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8423 on: June 14, 2021, 06:56:58 PM »
There is no longer any justification for delay. I feel for the people who have been taken in by this huge propaganda machine.

I think there is.

I’d rather this 4 week delay than another full lockdown
Dexy : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Adder : Hull Baggie : lewisant : Political Cake : tommcneill

its not just the winning thats important...its rubbing the losers face in it after that counts

tommcneill

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 13626
Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8424 on: June 14, 2021, 06:57:33 PM »

Look up the data mate. It wasn't known at the start of the virus outbreak or even last summer but i'd say after Xmas time they started pulling together the years data from 202 and when they starting releasing the findings around Feb/March 2021 time that worldwide, regardless of population density, age, economic status etc the one theme was that around 90% of victims were overweight. The news was suppressed in MSM media so you had to go directly to the government/science sites and fanny about but it was all there. I saw it mentioned somewhere last week as well but quickly gets buried. Next time i see reports on it will post the link mate.

Cheers I’d appreciate that as I’d like to see it
Dexy : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Adder : Hull Baggie : lewisant : Political Cake : tommcneill

its not just the winning thats important...its rubbing the losers face in it after that counts