Author Topic: Matheus Pereira  (Read 260115 times)

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Albionic

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2225 on: July 29, 2021, 10:34:39 AM »
If the "loan to perm" is solid i.e. there are no get out clauses (in the event of a serious injury for example), it would be possible to use the contract as a guarantee against a low cost cash loan. In effect, turning the loan contract for the player into cash.

I suspect that's what Huddersfield did with our agreement for Grant.

That was what I was thinking and on that basis, I'm not averse to a loan to perm.  Do worry about the integrity / longevity of WHUFC owners though.  Not like the Albion to get shafted in a deal is it ?? (Barca)
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2226 on: July 29, 2021, 10:37:15 AM »
There is no reason why we should desperate to sell. We already have Sam Johnstone to offload and we don’t need any income to fund the current squad which with Pereira is too good for this league.
We need at least one forward maybe two , then you look at the likes of Livermore and Phillips who I'd like to move on from . Thats more than the SJ money when Utd have had their slice I'd say . I'd love to keep MP but they'll do their best to sell while his stock is highest .
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2227 on: July 29, 2021, 10:47:41 AM »
That was what I was thinking and on that basis, I'm not averse to a loan to perm.  Do worry about the integrity / longevity of WHUFC owners though.  Not like the Albion to get shafted in a deal is it ?? (Barca)

We had no part of that deal. Barry was free to discuss with other clubs.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2228 on: July 29, 2021, 10:54:32 AM »
I would differentiate 'well run' with 'prudently run'.

From the owners perspective, the only money being spent at the club is the money brought in by the club, we are not fortunate like the Villa where owners come in and splash hundreds of millions of their own cash on it. Pereira is one player when they are looking to invest in a few players to ensure the squad as a whole is stronger as they are aware that to sell for the value they want, we need to be at the top table, so will be looking to move him on for that purpose.

My worry is that the clock is ticking and knowing the Albion we will not only sell him for less than his true value but also too late in the window to make meaningful efforts to rebuild the squad.

I'd say if we have to rely on finding players of Pierera's quality at the price we paid and offloading him for 3x that just to balance the books then we're not even prudently run, let alone well run.

I keep seeing people say we need the money to reinvest in the squad but...

1) do we?  If we keep Pierera and sold Johnstone - we have a decent enough keeper replacement and the rest of the squad should be able to compete at this level.   We've no Kanu so that's another upswing in the average quality of the squad.  :D

2) if we did sell him, is this board going to put that money into the new squad?  We already had the scandal where we were looking at ways to get money to the owners so they could 'decide' if they would put it back in the club.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2229 on: July 29, 2021, 11:23:07 AM »
If we keep Pierera and sold Johnstone - we have a decent enough keeper replacement and the rest of the squad should be able to compete at this level.
They're not objets d'art, they're people with their own needs and ambitions. Pereira, and presumably Johnstone, want to leave and if they're forced to stay for any reason, there's absolutely no guarantee that they'll perform at the same level as they have done previously. You'd hope they could be like automatons and not let any lingering disappointment affect them, but it often doesn't work out that way.

Our squad is too small for the rigours of a 46 game season, even if we weren't going to use an intense style of play, so a number of players still need to be signed and we have to be able to fund that. We also need to be able to bring in players who can operate the system to best effect, it's not enough just to bring in a load of runners with endless stamina, they need to be able to be effective when in possession too.

Albionic

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2230 on: July 29, 2021, 11:30:01 AM »
We had no part of that deal. Barry was free to discuss with other clubs.

fair point not a "deal" but shafted by Barca none the less

More to the point would I trust the WHUFC heirarchy - no, but in fairness thats only based on what i read and is likely mis-information. In reality we have dealt with them recently (Diangana) and will hopefully understand their integrity, we really dont want or need to get into deals that end up being "sorted" by regulators / courts.
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johnny Cash

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2231 on: July 29, 2021, 11:39:49 AM »
fair point not a "deal" but shafted by Barca none the less

More to the point would I trust the WHUFC heirarchy - no, but in fairness thats only based on what i read and is likely mis-information. In reality we have dealt with them recently (Diangana) and will hopefully understand their integrity, we really dont want or need to get into deals that end up being "sorted" by regulators / courts.

Leeds have been slapped by the Court of Arbitration for Sport trying to renege on a loan that changed to perm if they were promoted. They were trying to use Covid and the extended season as a get out because the player was a dud, but CAS have said its binding(and rightly so in my opinion).  They can appeal but I dont think they will win.

There is no reason to worry if a binding loan to guaranteed perm is done appropriately. If its a loan with only an option, than the price has to go up.


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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2232 on: July 29, 2021, 12:07:21 PM »
The other thing to remember is that MP did 'go missing' for several months last year, and IMO only started playing again after Big Sam probably had a word in his ear to say " you can either carry on sulking and be stuck here, or start showing everyone what a great player you are, hopefully keep us up but if not you'll have put yourself in the shop window for a move elsewhere"

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2233 on: July 29, 2021, 12:32:19 PM »
The other thing to remember is that MP did 'go missing' for several months last year, and IMO only started playing again after Big Sam probably had a word in his ear to say " you can either carry on sulking and be stuck here, or start showing everyone what a great player you are, hopefully keep us up but if not you'll have put yourself in the shop window for a move elsewhere"
Pereira always looks much less effective when played wide though, which is what Allardyce kept doing.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2234 on: July 29, 2021, 01:39:07 PM »
Pereira always looks much less effective when played wide though, which is what Allardyce kept doing.
But then again Pereira probably had his best games under Allardyce. As good as Pereira is he sometimes gave us a balance issue. Having a solid midfield 3 of Yokuslu, Gallagher and AMN gave Pereira more freedom even though he was nominally starting wider. Whether Championship or Prem we sometimes got outnumbered in midfield through Pereira being a very attack minded No 10 leaving two CMs battling away behind him (the 3-0 Leicester game being a classic example where we were up against 3 quality midfield players). Other managers will be looking at where he is going to fit into their systems - as good as the figures look it's not all about the goals and assist stats.
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2235 on: July 29, 2021, 03:50:20 PM »
But then again Pereira probably had his best games under Allardyce. As good as Pereira is he sometimes gave us a balance issue. Having a solid midfield 3 of Yokuslu, Gallagher and AMN gave Pereira more freedom even though he was nominally starting wider. Whether Championship or Prem we sometimes got outnumbered in midfield through Pereira being a very attack minded No 10 leaving two CMs battling away behind him (the 3-0 Leicester game being a classic example where we were up against 3 quality midfield players). Other managers will be looking at where he is going to fit into their systems - as good as the figures look it's not all about the goals and assist stats.
best game of season was when we battered the eventual champions league winners on their own patch. Okay and AMN centre partnership with Matheus given licence to roam in front of those two. Absolutely ran riot that day.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2236 on: July 29, 2021, 05:06:10 PM »
best game of season was when we battered the eventual champions league winners on their own patch. Okay and AMN centre partnership with Matheus given licence to roam in front of those two. Absolutely ran riot that day.
Yeah but that particular game doesn't prove anything about formation. The Chelsea sending off impacted the game - we were one down and went on the front foot which obviously suited Pereira. I'm not trying to say that formation never worked but there have certainly been plenty of games where we've been outnumbered and outworked in midfield with that formation.
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2237 on: July 29, 2021, 05:42:01 PM »
Pereira always looks much less effective when played wide though, which is what Allardyce kept doing.

yet he scored 10 of his 11 goals under Allardyce and managed the same amount of assists as under Bilic.

According to transfermarkt Allardyce played him rightwing/midfield 9 times, Am 9 times, left wing 3 times and as a second striker once.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/matheus-pereira/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/225984/saison/2020/wettbewerb/GB1/verein/984
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2238 on: July 29, 2021, 05:46:00 PM »
best game of season was when we battered the eventual champions league winners on their own patch. Okay and AMN centre partnership with Matheus given licence to roam in front of those two. Absolutely ran riot that day.

Pereira lined up as wide left on that day as part of a midfield 4.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56546577
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paulosull

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2239 on: July 29, 2021, 06:01:11 PM »
Pereira lined up as wide left on that day as part of a midfield 4.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56546577
might have lined up that way but had the freedom to roam that day

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2240 on: July 29, 2021, 06:02:41 PM »
yet he scored 10 of his 11 goals under Allardyce and managed the same amount of assists as under Bilic.

According to transfermarkt Allardyce played him rightwing/midfield 9 times, Am 9 times, left wing 3 times and as a second striker once.

https://www.transfermarkt.com/matheus-pereira/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/225984/saison/2020/wettbewerb/GB1/verein/984

I don't think there is any dispute that he is better through the middle than drifting in from wide, but he's class in either position. Agreed he was better in the second half of the season - because he had better players around him to help out.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2241 on: July 29, 2021, 06:04:14 PM »
Yeah but that particular game doesn't prove anything about formation. The Chelsea sending off impacted the game - we were one down and went on the front foot which obviously suited Pereira. I'm not trying to say that formation never worked but there have certainly been plenty of games where we've been outnumbered and outworked in midfield with that formation.
mate you should watch that game again even before sending off we were better team. Dingle Sam should of kept the midfield two but could not change it quick enough.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2242 on: July 29, 2021, 06:10:02 PM »
Presuming Sam Johnstone leaves this is the team I would start the season with based on what we have now:

Button
Furlong, Bartley, Ajayi, Townsend
Livermore, Pereira, Mowatt
Grady, Robinson, Grant

That still leaves: Palmer, Clarke, O'Shea, Kipre, Phillips, Snodgrass, Sawyers, Tulloch, Zohore to pick the bench from.

Pretty strong team and squad all round, that starting eleven should do some real damage at this level. Ideally we could do with two or three more squad fillers to help over the course of the 46 game season but we can always 1) play the academy in the league cup, 2) use the loan market & 3) buy a couple if needs be in January.

If we get £40m in for Pereira then I can understand the board being tempted but less than that and I think it's an own goal. No point selling him and taking his goals / assists from the team to sign a striker like Cauley Woodrow - that isn't going to leave us any better off.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2243 on: July 29, 2021, 06:12:58 PM »
mate you should watch that game again even before sending off we were better team. Dingle Sam should of kept the midfield two but could not change it quick enough.
Like I've said one game does not prove any point one way or the other.
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2244 on: July 29, 2021, 06:41:18 PM »
Presuming Sam Johnstone leaves this is the team I would start the season with based on what we have now:

Button
Furlong, Bartley, Ajayi, Townsend
Livermore, Pereira, Mowatt
Grady, Robinson, Grant

That still leaves: Palmer, Clarke, O'Shea, Kipre, Phillips, Snodgrass, Sawyers, Tulloch, Zohore to pick the bench from.

Pretty strong team and squad all round, that starting eleven should do some real damage at this level. Ideally we could do with two or three more squad fillers to help over the course of the 46 game season but we can always 1) play the academy in the league cup, 2) use the loan market & 3) buy a couple if needs be in January.

If we get £40m in for Pereira then I can understand the board being tempted but less than that and I think it's an own goal. No point selling him and taking his goals / assists from the team to sign a striker like Cauley Woodrow - that isn't going to leave us any better off.

He's not deviating from that 343. I'd play Pereira in place of Livermore .
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2245 on: July 29, 2021, 10:42:15 PM »
£22m being reported as West Ham bid?

I think that’s about 8m light - he is genuinely that good.

I hope we are wise and just stick a cheeky sell on fee in there.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2246 on: July 29, 2021, 10:45:33 PM »
If its £22m + offsetting what we owe for Grady (circa £8m? then we're talking.)

Otherwise. Start adding!
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2247 on: July 29, 2021, 10:48:02 PM »
£22m being reported as West Ham bid?

I think that’s about 8m light - he is genuinely that good.

I hope we are wise and just stick a cheeky sell on fee in there.

I think you’re right. One thing is clear, sadly: he will be gone before the new season starts.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2248 on: July 29, 2021, 10:48:09 PM »
Selling Pereira for 22m would be an appalling deal for us.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2249 on: July 29, 2021, 10:52:24 PM »
Given the previous reports of a £25m deal (regardless of the other shenanigans) then that would suggest it’s a price the club has in mind,
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