[gazberg]

It isn't even early days, the season hasn't started yet!

 

True, because I'm patient I will revisit this comment in 3weeks!

[Gilsey 56]

How can any manager not rate this guy, we are all resigned to losing him and it would be absolutely mindless to play him.
He his our transfer budget and what we get for Johnstone, I don't believe any other gossip apart from there as been a mutual agreement by the player and the club for everyones benefit, everything else is rubbish.

[Albionic]

Bit worrying if true that he doesn't rate Pereira. Does anyone have a link to this?

Early days but *feels* like we are potentially going from a team full of cloggers (Pulis) to a team full of tippy tappers (Bilic) to a team of athletes (Ismael)

Thats a brilliant summary to be fair, means Livermore was an athletic clogger in a tippy tappy Bilic team, pretty accurate TBH

[gazberg]

Thats a brilliant summary to be fair, means Livermore was an athletic clogger in a tippy tappy Bilic team, pretty accurate TBH

It wasnt my intention but you hit the nail in the head.

[baggie82]

The difference is Norwich weren't desperate to sell while it seems we have no money unless we do , I hope I'm wrong but rumblings about VI not being keen on the player don't help us much either .  I always felt 30m would be about enough with some addons so I'm against any loan deals unless there's a serious wedge first .

There is no reason why we should desperate to sell. We already have Sam Johnstone to offload and we don’t need any income to fund the current squad which with Pereira is too good for this league.

[TheJacko2000]

There is no reason why we should desperate to sell. We already have Sam Johnstone to offload and we don’t need any income to fund the current squad which with Pereira is too good for this league.

100 percent agree.

As long as we don't take the **** and reject a, say, £40 million bid, I feel he'll accept staying and get his head down to get us back up.

[BaggieNick]

100 percent agree.

As long as we don't take the **** and reject a, say, £40 million bid, I feel he'll accept staying and get his head down to get us back up.

The simple question to ask us this: would you rather see Pereira starting for the Albion next season - one of the few who can play in this division and the one above - or sold and, if so, would you trust our lot to reinvest successfully?

I hope he stays.

[LiamTheBaggie]

Wishful thinking hoping he stays - the club want him gone. Without him being sold then it knackers our plans to invest in our current playing squad.

[paulosull]

Thought this was a so called Well run club? Can accept we have to sell Sam due to his contract situation. Perreira is our prized asset with his contract in clubs favour could be wrong but it feels like powers that be want him gone.

[Fritzl Palace]

Thought this was a so called Well run club? Can accept we have to sell Sam due to his contract situation. Perreira is our prized asset with his contract in clubs favour could be wrong but it feels like powers that be want him gone.

I would differentiate 'well run' with 'prudently run'.

From the owners perspective, the only money being spent at the club is the money brought in by the club, we are not fortunate like the Villa where owners come in and splash hundreds of millions of their own cash on it. Pereira is one player when they are looking to invest in a few players to ensure the squad as a whole is stronger as they are aware that to sell for the value they want, we need to be at the top table, so will be looking to move him on for that purpose.

My worry is that the clock is ticking and knowing the Albion we will not only sell him for less than his true value but also too late in the window to make meaningful efforts to rebuild the squad.

[WBA.R.K]

My fear with the Periera situation is that we sell him late, cheaper than we would like, and panic buy the wrong striker for us.

[tuamigos]

My fear with the Periera situation is that we sell him late, cheaper than we would like, and panic buy the wrong striker for us.

Oh ye of little faith 

[paulosull]

I would differentiate 'well run' with 'prudently run'.

From the owners perspective, the only money being spent at the club is the money brought in by the club, we are not fortunate like the Villa where owners come in and splash hundreds of millions of their own cash on it. Pereira is one player when they are looking to invest in a few players to ensure the squad as a whole is stronger as they are aware that to sell for the value they want, we need to be at the top table, so will be looking to move him on for that purpose.

My worry is that the clock is ticking and knowing the Albion we will not only sell him for less than his true value but also too late in the window to make meaningful efforts to rebuild the squad.

well if we get £11 million for Sam and £25 for Matheus which   is being reported I can't see us spending a fraction of the £36 million club would get.

[tuamigos]

According to some reports West Ham looking at signing Pereira and Johnstone as a double up.
Straight buy for Johnstone, and a loan with a buy obligation for Pereira.
They are saying that the initial loan fee for Matteus is 'significant'

[Albionic]

I am instinctively against a loan deal for MP, but, given the way deals are structured over long periods nowadays, is a loan to perm that much of a disadvantage over a "normal" structured sale???

Finance people???

[skyclad99]

Thought this was a so called Well run club? Can accept we have to sell Sam due to his contract situation. Perreira is our prized asset with his contract in clubs favour could be wrong but it feels like powers that be want him gone.

It depends on your definition of 'well run'. If we are looking to survive and balance the books by taking the occasional profit from a situation such as a transfer, then we are well run. If you are looking to show ambition and want to do as well as you can then I don't think 'well run' refers to us.

I have not looked at the West Ham finances, and I do have issues with the stadium deal they pulled off, but their board are showing ambition and buying quality players. Last year under Moyes they seemed to click, and were good to watch as well. At this moment in time, West Ham seem to be a 'well run' club.

On the other hand, we could support Derby, and by the looks of it there will be quite a few people in that area looking for other things to do on a Saturday afternoon in the not too distant future.

Back to the topic of the thread, I am liking the idea of a loan to West Ham as the fee is rumoured to be significant, and if MP does what we know he can do then WH will be keen to buy him at the end of the season. I just hope we do not agree a silly purchase price now.

[baggiejohn]

I am instinctively against a loan deal for MP, but, given the way deals are structured over long periods nowadays, is a loan to perm that much of a disadvantage over a "normal" structured sale???

Finance people???

If the "loan to perm" is solid i.e. there are no get out clauses (in the event of a serious injury for example), it would be possible to use the contract as a guarantee against a low cost cash loan. In effect, turning the loan contract for the player into cash.

I suspect that's what Huddersfield did with our agreement for Grant.

[Albionic]

If the "loan to perm" is solid i.e. there are no get out clauses (in the event of a serious injury for example), it would be possible to use the contract as a guarantee against a low cost cash loan. In effect, turning the loan contract for the player into cash.

I suspect that's what Huddersfield did with our agreement for Grant.

That was what I was thinking and on that basis, I'm not averse to a loan to perm.  Do worry about the integrity / longevity of WHUFC owners though.  Not like the Albion to get shafted in a deal is it ?? (Barca)

[Dexy]

There is no reason why we should desperate to sell. We already have Sam Johnstone to offload and we don’t need any income to fund the current squad which with Pereira is too good for this league.

We need at least one forward maybe two , then you look at the likes of Livermore and Phillips who I'd like to move on from . Thats more than the SJ money when Utd have had their slice I'd say . I'd love to keep MP but they'll do their best to sell while his stock is highest .

[WBA.R.K]

That was what I was thinking and on that basis, I'm not averse to a loan to perm.  Do worry about the integrity / longevity of WHUFC owners though.  Not like the Albion to get shafted in a deal is it ?? (Barca)

We had no part of that deal. Barry was free to discuss with other clubs.

[boinging_along]

I would differentiate 'well run' with 'prudently run'.

From the owners perspective, the only money being spent at the club is the money brought in by the club, we are not fortunate like the Villa where owners come in and splash hundreds of millions of their own cash on it. Pereira is one player when they are looking to invest in a few players to ensure the squad as a whole is stronger as they are aware that to sell for the value they want, we need to be at the top table, so will be looking to move him on for that purpose.

My worry is that the clock is ticking and knowing the Albion we will not only sell him for less than his true value but also too late in the window to make meaningful efforts to rebuild the squad.

I'd say if we have to rely on finding players of Pierera's quality at the price we paid and offloading him for 3x that just to balance the books then we're not even prudently run, let alone well run.

I keep seeing people say we need the money to reinvest in the squad but...

1) do we?  If we keep Pierera and sold Johnstone - we have a decent enough keeper replacement and the rest of the squad should be able to compete at this level.   We've no Kanu so that's another upswing in the average quality of the squad. 

2) if we did sell him, is this board going to put that money into the new squad?  We already had the scandal where we were looking at ways to get money to the owners so they could 'decide' if they would put it back in the club.

[WorcsWBA]

If we keep Pierera and sold Johnstone - we have a decent enough keeper replacement and the rest of the squad should be able to compete at this level.

They're not objets d'art, they're people with their own needs and ambitions. Pereira, and presumably Johnstone, want to leave and if they're forced to stay for any reason, there's absolutely no guarantee that they'll perform at the same level as they have done previously. You'd hope they could be like automatons and not let any lingering disappointment affect them, but it often doesn't work out that way.

Our squad is too small for the rigours of a 46 game season, even if we weren't going to use an intense style of play, so a number of players still need to be signed and we have to be able to fund that. We also need to be able to bring in players who can operate the system to best effect, it's not enough just to bring in a load of runners with endless stamina, they need to be able to be effective when in possession too.

[Albionic]

We had no part of that deal. Barry was free to discuss with other clubs.

fair point not a "deal" but shafted by Barca none the less

More to the point would I trust the WHUFC heirarchy - no, but in fairness thats only based on what i read and is likely mis-information. In reality we have dealt with them recently (Diangana) and will hopefully understand their integrity, we really dont want or need to get into deals that end up being "sorted" by regulators / courts.

[johnny Cash]

fair point not a "deal" but shafted by Barca none the less

More to the point would I trust the WHUFC heirarchy - no, but in fairness thats only based on what i read and is likely mis-information. In reality we have dealt with them recently (Diangana) and will hopefully understand their integrity, we really dont want or need to get into deals that end up being "sorted" by regulators / courts.

Leeds have been slapped by the Court of Arbitration for Sport trying to renege on a loan that changed to perm if they were promoted. They were trying to use Covid and the extended season as a get out because the player was a dud, but CAS have said its binding(and rightly so in my opinion).  They can appeal but I dont think they will win.

There is no reason to worry if a binding loan to guaranteed perm is done appropriately. If its a loan with only an option, than the price has to go up.

[Mooncat]

The other thing to remember is that MP did 'go missing' for several months last year, and IMO only started playing again after Big Sam probably had a word in his ear to say " you can either carry on sulking and be stuck here, or start showing everyone what a great player you are, hopefully keep us up but if not you'll have put yourself in the shop window for a move elsewhere"