Author Topic: Matheus Pereira  (Read 260091 times)

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Dexy

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2175 on: July 25, 2021, 05:24:48 AM »
The problem I have is the catch all "football person". Dowling was a football person there was dancing in the streets when he left. Williams was a football person, Risdale was a football person and I can carry on forever. Every clown car that has been crashed into a ditch in football and there is a whole fleet of those has had at least one football person on board often with their hands firmly gripping the steering wheel.

Equally as they walk away amazingly unscathed from the wreckage they will blithely tell the world that is was all the owners fault and the football world nods along sagely and they move on to the next cluster****.

You know who really worries me in our processes right now and that is Ron Gourlay and he is the football person.
Its not catch all because other than Gourlay as a go to there is nothing else , even JP and Jenkins got up to speed on the job to a degree . Dowling ? , at best done nothing at any club he has been and I'm being kind on that . I know what you're getting at and I'll give you Williams but that current set up of ours is worrying for my money , business and football business are two very different things for me .
Lets say MP gets priced out of a move , value starts to drop because he's not playing ...I'm not convinced they would know whats the next move  and this Gourlay doesn't fill me with confidence either .
« Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 11:04:43 AM by Dexy »
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Standaman

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2176 on: July 25, 2021, 09:40:59 AM »
Jenkins was at the club for nearly two decades in various executive roles if that is not a "football person" what is? To qualify do they have to be a former player or coach?

The ultimate decision is nearly always a financial one and football is absolutely not unique in that regard. The only thing that is unique in this is there is a person involved who might not unreasonably have a view as to where they live and work. However it doesn't take a unique skillset to understand that and in any event football people seem just as capable of overlooking that fact in the head long pursuit of the next deal as any none football person.

In the specific instance of Pereira the price has been set and let's say for the sake of argument it is £25m and of course the transaction is time barred. If we get no interest or no firm offers at that price

The choice is a simple one either reduce the price or don't sell. There is a third choice of a loan so the player generates a small fee and mitigates the cost of employment.   All the parts of that decision are financial none of it have anything to do with football.

The coach will have an input on what he needs in the squad the Head of Recruitment will be able to identify the players and there likely availability and pricing. The rest is finance and negotiation both inbound and outbound.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 09:58:58 AM by Standaman »
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Dexy

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2177 on: July 25, 2021, 11:08:46 AM »
Jenkins was at the club for nearly two decades in various executive roles if that is not a "football person" what is? To qualify do they have to be a former player or coach?

The ultimate decision is nearly always a financial one and football is absolutely not unique in that regard. The only thing that is unique in this is there is a person involved who might not unreasonably have a view as to where they live and work. However it doesn't take a unique skillset to understand that and in any event football people seem just as capable of overlooking that fact in the head long pursuit of the next deal as any none football person.

In the specific instance of Pereira the price has been set and let's say for the sake of argument it is £25m and of course the transaction is time barred. If we get no interest or no firm offers at that price

The choice is a simple one either reduce the price or don't sell. There is a third choice of a loan so the player generates a small fee and mitigates the cost of employment.   All the parts of that decision are financial none of it have anything to do with football.

The coach will have an input on what he needs in the squad the Head of Recruitment will be able to identify the players and there likely availability and pricing. The rest is finance and negotiation both inbound and outbound.
There was never one thing football related about Jenkins , pure money man and very good at it too . The above is exactly why although I believed it was time Dowling went I did want to see another D.O.F come in , awful lot of pressure on Val and some bloke hated at Reading as a consultant . Again you can see my problem with the current regime .
« Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 10:19:01 PM by Dexy »
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2178 on: July 28, 2021, 07:52:38 AM »
According to one Joao Castelo-Branco (journo) we've had a bid of £12.8m for MP from Al Hilal.
According to the journo MP is considering the offer.
Now I might be wrong here, but they can offer MP a £1m a day but if we don't accept the transfer fee then MP is wasting his time and effort in considering the offer put before him.
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2179 on: July 28, 2021, 08:02:24 AM »
My old man always said 'You can't educate pork!'

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2180 on: July 28, 2021, 08:15:41 AM »
Interesting as it came from Arabic Twitter account. Could be something in this I guess but I would have hoped for a heftier price tag. Maybe there is a decent sell on clause??
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2181 on: July 28, 2021, 08:18:28 AM »
Interesting as it came from Arabic Twitter account. Could be something in this I guess but I would have hoped for a heftier price tag. Maybe there is a decent sell on clause??

Might be an initial £22.5M rising to say £30M with add ons? If it is true that is.
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2182 on: July 28, 2021, 09:19:40 AM »
Apparently Leicester in the hunt for him if Arsenal get Maddison then can see Matheus turning up there. But anything under £40 million is a joke in my book.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2183 on: July 28, 2021, 09:47:13 AM »
look forward to a good guffaw!
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2184 on: July 28, 2021, 10:12:14 AM »
If West Ham offer £22.5m I don’t think we will accept it, but in the circumstances and taking on board our acceptance to sell and our financial situation I imagine it will be the start of some negotiation rather than us just putting the phone down.

The more of Leeds, Leicester, Everton, even Wolves or Villa (purely to drive the price up) the better. Arsenal should consider bypassing Maddison and going straight for Pereira too.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2185 on: July 28, 2021, 10:31:25 AM »
I am fairly sure there is a fee agreed with Pereira's agent that he can go for. My guess is that is £25m or something in that region,  as soon as that figure is met he can go to that club. The only auction that will occur if he has more than one suitor is on personal terms.

West Ham having given up on Lingard are the most likely suitor and an opening shot at £22.5m takes the chance that someone else will enter the market but at the moment I think they have a clear run with any other interest being dependent on another deal going through elsewhere.
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2186 on: July 28, 2021, 10:43:03 AM »
I am fairly sure there is a fee agreed with Pereira's agent that he can go for. My guess is that is £25m or something in that region,  as soon as that figure is met he can go to that club. The only auction that will occur if he has more than one suitor is on personal terms.

West Ham having given up on Lingard are the most likely suitor and an opening shot at £22.5m takes the chance that someone else will enter the market but at the moment I think they have a clear run with any other interest being dependent on another deal going through elsewhere.

No chance the club have told Pereira he can walk for £25m. Ken is not that stupid. As for the market, it won’t get going until we’ll into August.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2187 on: July 28, 2021, 10:51:44 AM »
If West Ham offer £22.5m I don’t think we will accept it, but in the circumstances and taking on board our acceptance to sell and our financial situation I imagine it will be the start of some negotiation rather than us just putting the phone down.

The more of Leeds, Leicester, Everton, even Wolves or Villa (purely to drive the price up) the better. Arsenal should consider bypassing Maddison and going straight for Pereira too.
Arsenal should definitely be looking at him, I know they seem to be on an endless rebuild, but he is good enough for them.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2188 on: July 28, 2021, 10:53:55 AM »
I am fairly sure there is a fee agreed with Pereira's agent that he can go for. My guess is that is £25m or something in that region,  as soon as that figure is met he can go to that club. The only auction that will occur if he has more than one suitor is on personal terms.

West Ham having given up on Lingard are the most likely suitor and an opening shot at £22.5m takes the chance that someone else will enter the market but at the moment I think they have a clear run with any other interest being dependent on another deal going through elsewhere.

Id imagine there is a fee agreed that he can definitely go for, but i wouldn't be surprised if we have given ourselves some room for maneuver.   Lets face it, we can always say we dont like the payment terms or any conditions attached to any offer, and clubs also mess players around plenty too. 

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2189 on: July 28, 2021, 10:55:08 AM »
If we get a few clubs who genuinely really earmark him as a prime target we might get around £30 million or a little more if they decide to start outbidding each other. I personally think that anyone holding out for £40 million plus should prepare themselves to be disappointed.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2190 on: July 28, 2021, 11:44:17 AM »
Where a player wants to leave and a club wants to sell 99% of the time there is an agreed price. Yes things can get a little fraught where there is haggling over the exact terms of the deal because the player thinks that the selling club is reneging on an earlier agreement.

Why is there no drama around this deal? No headlines about the player being unhappy with the club pricing him out of a move? Probably because there is a price in place and it is not an unreasonable one. What that is I don't know but it isn't £40m or anything close to it.

As much as the media likes to portray the market as auctions and races it generally isn't when a player and club are in agreement there is club that meets the valuation and if there are two then it is the player choses.

« Last Edit: July 28, 2021, 12:05:36 PM by Standaman »
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Dexy

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2191 on: July 28, 2021, 11:45:35 AM »
If we get a few clubs who genuinely really earmark him as a prime target we might get around £30 million or a little more if they decide to start outbidding each other. I personally think that anyone holding out for £40 million plus should prepare themselves to be disappointed.
Or the 50m/70m some spoke about .
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2192 on: July 28, 2021, 11:54:30 AM »
£40m for MP and SJ and they write anything we owe for GD.

That would be ideal and not too unrealistic imo.



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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2193 on: July 28, 2021, 12:51:08 PM »
£40m for MP and SJ and they write anything we owe for GD.

That would be ideal and not too unrealistic imo.

Yup. Pereira £35m, Johnstone £5m plus Grady's add ons.

Though I disagree it would be ideal.

Pereira stopping here would be ideal with Johnstone going for £100 million  ;)
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2194 on: July 28, 2021, 03:26:44 PM »
.......Pereira stopping here would be ideal with Johnstone going for £100 million  ;)

Looks like last night's trip down the motorway and back wasn't such a wasted journey afterall. That crack you bought on the petrol forecourt at Morrisons in Wednesbury seems very morish  ;D .
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2195 on: July 28, 2021, 03:47:24 PM »
I'm glad that none of the posters that think around £25m is reasonable are in charge of our club. Emiliano Buendía was sold to Villa for £38m and he managed 1 goal and 7 assists in 36 premiership games. Comparatively Pereira managed 11 goals and 6 assists in 30 premiership games. Undoubtedly Pereira is the better player with the bigger pedigree. Yet some of our fans think selling him for £13m less than Buendia is somehow a good deal when he has three years left on his contract - nuts.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2196 on: July 28, 2021, 05:04:46 PM »
I'm glad that none of the posters that think around £25m is reasonable are in charge of our club. Emiliano Buendía was sold to Villa for £38m and he managed 1 goal and 7 assists in 36 premiership games. Comparatively Pereira managed 11 goals and 6 assists in 30 premiership games. Undoubtedly Pereira is the better player with the bigger pedigree. Yet some of our fans think selling him for £13m less than Buendia is somehow a good deal when he has three years left on his contract - nuts.
The difference is Norwich weren't desperate to sell while it seems we have no money unless we do , I hope I'm wrong but rumblings about VI not being keen on the player don't help us much either .  I always felt 30m would be about enough with some addons so I'm against any loan deals unless there's a serious wedge first .
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2197 on: July 28, 2021, 06:26:26 PM »
I'm glad that none of the posters that think around £25m is reasonable are in charge of our club. Emiliano Buendía was sold to Villa for £38m and he managed 1 goal and 7 assists in 36 premiership games. Comparatively Pereira managed 11 goals and 6 assists in 30 premiership games. Undoubtedly Pereira is the better player with the bigger pedigree. Yet some of our fans think selling him for £13m less than Buendia is somehow a good deal when he has three years left on his contract - nuts.

There are 2 sides to the deal, if only we could find a club as "generous" as vile
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2198 on: July 28, 2021, 06:36:44 PM »
The difference is Norwich weren't desperate to sell while it seems we have no money unless we do , I hope I'm wrong but rumblings about VI not being keen on the player don't help us much either .  I always felt 30m would be about enough with some addons so I'm against any loan deals unless there's a serious wedge first .

Exactly.  Norwich are in the  Premier League and no need to sell. Buendia would have probably been happy to stay on for a reasonable uplift in wages.  We are in the Championship need the money and Pereira clearly and justly feels he ought to be playing at a higher level.  I think that VI would be keen to retain him if he was happy and trained like the rest.  There is no room for sulky prima donnas  in his teams.

Someone will come in for him  but it's a balance that shifts in time as we approach September.  We just have to be careful that we don't end up with a lot of money in the bank at the end of the transfer window.
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #2199 on: July 28, 2021, 08:28:19 PM »
If Ishmael does not rate him needs his head examined imo. Quality player who I'd prefer to keep than sell on cheap.