[tuamigos]

I think if we had signed him as an 18-year old and he scored away at Villa Park and contributed as he did last year and then didn't get the opportunities this year, we would be clamouring for him to play more.

Regarding Leko, it's interesting that prior to his injury he was having a decent season at Charlton - perhaps we don't have enough patience as fans?

If we are comparing the two, I think Harper is streets ahead; his ball control, passing range and something that I think really separates good players from others is an appreciation of the pace of a pass, which are all good. I rate him highly, I of course could be proven wrong, but I think he is the most promising youngster we've produced since Berahino. I understand that I'm putting my neck on the line with this view!

I have two issues with him. His apparent lack of stamina and his unwillingness to recover the ball when he loses possession.
Far from being the finished article, whether we get to see that here or if he has to move away, I'm not syre

[OldburyWBA]

Played well last night, certainly the best of the midfield until Krovinovic came on but even then impressed with his chasing back, needs to be the next in line when a chance comes up.

[baggiebof]

I have two issues with him. His apparent lack of stamina and his unwillingness to recover the ball when he loses possession.
Far from being the finished article, whether we get to see that here or if he has to move away, I'm not syre

I think I know what you mean regarding recovering the ball as he is a little like Brunt, he shows his frustration/disappointment on the pitch with his body language, however this maybe leads to a slight misinterpretation. Looking at the last 3 games, although a small sample, his tackling stats (according to whoscored.com) are fine:

WBA v PNE - 1 tackle
WBA v WA - 3 tackles (2nd most in game and got hooked early)
WBA v NU - 2 tackles (same as other midfielders Brunt and Barry)

The above suggests that he does win the ball enough and as mentioned, I think he is a more offensive minded midfielder in any case.

[TiptonThrostle]

I think I know what you mean regarding recovering the ball as he is a little like Brunt, he shows his frustration/disappointment on the pitch with his body language, however this maybe leads to a slight misinterpretation. Looking at the last 3 games, although a small sample, his tackling stats (according to whoscored.com) are fine:

WBA v PNE - 1 tackle
WBA v WA - 3 tackles (2nd most in game and got hooked early)
WBA v NU - 2 tackles (same as other midfielders Brunt and Barry)

The above suggests that he does win the ball enough and as mentioned, I think he is a more offensive minded midfielder in any case.

i think it is more the fact he does not seem to show the same amount of energy or willing to press or close down the opposition as other midfielders and when he has the ball.

i also think he goes missing for long periods in a game and on occasions very rarely shows for the ball, like he is just happy to coast through the game.

[LiamTheBaggie]

.
i also think he goes missing for long periods in a game and on occasions very rarely shows for the ball, like he is just happy to coast through the game.

And this is why he requires a spell out on loan.

He needs to learn his position and therefore improve his game.

We’ve wasted a season of his development by allowing him to gain splinters in his backside

[gazberg]

Definitely needs a loan. I thought we would use him more this season but it hasn't turned out that way. Looks like we kept him as 4th backup in case of injuries and suspension and i suppose it's helped us but he's stagnated

[mulliganstired]

If we go up, he will need to be loaned to a solid champ side, he needs a pretty much full season of actual games

[Wigmore]

I'm amused with the number of posters who think there is a burgeoning number of clubs who are queuing up to take our players that they think are deficient.
There is no absolute guarantee that a loan will enable players to develop at all, as the loanees may not get the required game time, and the clubs that take them may misuse them (e.g Gnabry).

[Baggies]

I'm amused with the number of posters who think there is a burgeoning number of clubs who are queuing up to take our players that they think are deficient.
There is no absolute guarantee that a loan will enable players to develop at all, as the loanees may not get the required game time, and the clubs that take them may misuse them (e.g Gnabry).

Leko and Field getting game time at a decent enough Charlton suggests there are opportunities out there.

Harper has loads of talent and clubs would be interested in him. I'd actually be looking at wherever Bowyer is next season as his destination.

[beechyboy90]

I think next year it's going to be important for us to have a whole crop of our youth players out on loan. For some we might see if they can keep on their development and make the step up to play premier league football or whether they will only forge a career in the lower leagues. Harper is one of many that needs to go out on loan

[Oldbury24]

In my opinion, Harper is another Leko, lazy and over-hyped. His lack of stamina is shocking and he should be nowhere near the first team. If this was a signing and not 'one of our own' the patience would have worn thin a long time ago.

I just don't get this "lazy" accusation.   Against Newcastle he covered real ground trying to make up for the two pensioners along side him.  Understandably by the end of the game his legs had gone.   

He's 19 and only played so much last year because we had a paucity of CM's.    He's been managed much better this year, and will only improve.   As part of the learning process he will make bad decisions and play some poor passes (as he did the other night) but his ability to travel at pace with the ball and go past players is very good and he shows flashed of real skill.  He does show his frustration to readily,  but that doesn't seem to have stopped Brunt having a fantastic career.

This is a youth academy product who has signed a contract and will go through his developmental years with us.  Might he make a top Championship or PL player? its too early to tell but unlike Barry, Rogers and Ferguson at least we will get to see the journey.

Have a word with yourself.


 

[stuvetti]

I agree. He has a very languid running style, which perhaps creates the impression of laziness.
He was poor against Wigan, but I thought very good against Newcastle. His retention of the ball and recirculation in tight spaces are characteristics of a good player.
And I would be interested to see the Opta stats on ground covered, because to my eyes he was right at the top in terms of work rate.

[phbaggies]

I just don't get this "lazy" accusation.   Against Newcastle he covered real ground trying to make up for the two pensioners along side him.  Understandably by the end of the game his legs had gone.   

He's 19 and only played so much last year because we had a paucity of CM's.    He's been managed much better this year, and will only improve.   As part of the learning process he will make bad decisions and play some poor passes (as he did the other night) but his ability to travel at pace with the ball and go past players is very good and he shows flashed of real skill.  He does show his frustration to readily,  but that doesn't seem to have stopped Brunt having a fantastic career.

This is a youth academy product who has signed a contract and will go through his developmental years with us.  Might he make a top Championship or PL player? its too early to tell but unlike Barry, Rogers and Ferguson at least we will get to see the journey.

Have a word with yourself.

After 'having a word with myself' I agree with me, he is lazy! He loses the ball and rather than chase after it to get it back he stands still shaking his head and moping about it, every single time!
So if he was carrying 2 pensioners against Newcastle and looked good, what was his excuse for being absolutely awful against Wigan??
He looks knackered the minute the games kicked off and there is nothing about him that screams star in the making to me, exactly the same as Leko or Field, if we sold any of them we would not miss them one bit.

[Oldbury24]

After 'having a word with myself' I agree with me, he is lazy! He loses the ball and rather than chase after it to get it back he stands still shaking his head and moping about it, every single time!
So if he was carrying 2 pensioners against Newcastle and looked good, what was his excuse for being absolutely awful against Wigan??
He looks knackered the minute the games kicked off and there is nothing about him that screams star in the making to me, exactly the same as Leko or Field, if we sold any of them we would not miss them one bit.

Blimey, mind made up!! I've seen plenty of shoddy looking players we've shelled out very good money for, so I'm happy to give one of our own a few years to develop either here or out on loan.   

If he gets some more game time I'll be sure to keep an eye on his off the ball work rate, see if i can agree with you.

[KN22]

Blimey, mind made up!! I've seen plenty of shoddy looking players we've shelled out very good money for, so I'm happy to give one of our own a few years to develop either here or out on loan.   

If he gets some more game time I'll be sure to keep an eye on his off the ball work rate, see if i can agree with you.

I agree with your summing up. He is far from the finished article and I am not sure where the journey will take him. I am convinced however that he is well above Leko or Field given the respective ages of the guys.

[TiptonThrostle]

After 'having a word with myself' I agree with me, he is lazy! He loses the ball and rather than chase after it to get it back he stands still shaking his head and moping about it, every single time!
So if he was carrying 2 pensioners against Newcastle and looked good, what was his excuse for being absolutely awful against Wigan??
He looks knackered the minute the games kicked off and there is nothing about him that screams star in the making to me, exactly the same as Leko or Field, if we sold any of them we would not miss them one bit.

completely agree with this but i think field is a much better all round footballer than Harper. but thats just my opinion.

[iwastherein68]

Blimey, mind made up!! I've seen plenty of shoddy looking players we've shelled out very good money for, so I'm happy to give one of our own a few years to develop either here or out on loan.   

If he gets some more game time I'll be sure to keep an eye on his off the ball work rate, see if i can agree with you.

I agree with that sentiment mate. Left to some on here, we would be getting rid of ( or sending out on loan, the likes of
Edwards , Field, Leko, Harper, O'shea . I don't know how or with whom, they expect to make up our squad for the Prem or indeed the Championship. Ferguson, Brunt and Barry gone, 3 loanees ,and almost certainly a limited budget.
A reality check is required I think.

[phbaggies]

I agree with that sentiment mate. Left to some on here, we would be getting rid of ( or sending out on loan, the likes of
Edwards , Field, Leko, Harper, O'shea . I don't know how or with whom, they expect to make up our squad for the Prem or indeed the Championship. Ferguson, Brunt and Barry gone, 3 loanees ,and almost certainly a limited budget.
A reality check is required I think.

If you think any of them are anywhere near premier league ready you sir need the reality check! O' Shea is coming on well as is Edwards and to a point Harper is but as I have stated he is lazy and over-hyped because hes 'one of our own'.

If he is as great as some think he will be then a season away will prove it one way or another as he just wont get game time here next season and quite rightly too.

[iwastherein68]

If you think any of them are anywhere near premier league ready you sir need the reality check! O' Shea is coming on well as is Edwards and to a point Harper is but as I have stated he is lazy and over-hyped because hes 'one of our own'.

If he is as great as some think he will be then a season away will prove it one way or another as he just wont get game time here next season and quite rightly too.

Lazy and over-hyped could be attributed to a seasoned pro like Matt Phillips, let alone a relatively inexperienced 19 Year old.
I do not need a reality check to know that the majority of our squad are not of premier league quality, but some of the youngsters can grow into it. Phillips, Austin, Bartley, Robson-Kanu, Zohore, and Gibbs can not.

[Albionic]

If this crop of kids don’t “make it” and are “only championship” level there could a good £50m of talent there on today’s fees, that would justify the academy into the 2030’s

[Wigmore]

Lazy and over-hyped could be attributed to a seasoned pro like Matt Phillips, let alone a relatively inexperienced 19 Year old.
I do not need a reality check to know that the majority of our squad are not of premier league quality, but some of the youngsters can grow into it. Phillips, Austin, Bartley, Robson-Kanu, Zohore, and Gibbs can not.

Would that be the Gibbs who has already played 170 EPL games?

[iwastherein68]

Would that be the Gibbs who has already played 170 EPL games?

Yes that's the one , who has not contributed a great deal for us this season, is a quite average defender, and like during his Arsenal career he misses too many games through injury. Would have been off like a shot at the end of last season, but no-one was interested. It's a continuing theme, everyone wants our youngsters, no-one wants our senior players, which says it all really.

[boinging_along]

Did Gibbs put a transfer request in, I honestly don't remember us trying to get rid of him? 

And you can't really blame him for being injured this season, we rushed him back and he got injured again.  He's still, easily, the best LB at the club and probably one of the best in the division.

[timdon]

Did Gibbs put a transfer request in, I honestly don't remember us trying to get rid of him? 

And you can't really blame him for being injured this season, we rushed him back and he got injured again.  He's still, easily, the best LB at the club and probably one of the best in the division.

He said no=one was interested, not that we tried to get rid of him. When a team is in the Championship, it is par for the course that Premier league teams will try to buy those players who are Premiership quality. The discussion was about whether Gibbs was Premier team quality and the fact no Premier team was sniffing around suggests he isn't. Definitely WAS at one time but not any more. Same with Philips. Same with Brunt. The point being that they are all past their sell by date (literally). Harper is only 19 and has progressed well so far. Will he ever be Premier League quality? None of us know. The difference between him and the afore mentioned is that Harper has many years to prove himself. The others don't.

[iwastherein68]

He said no=one was interested, not that we tried to get rid of him. When a team is in the Championship, it is par for the course that Premier league teams will try to buy those players who are Premiership quality. The discussion was about whether Gibbs was Premier team quality and the fact no Premier team was sniffing around suggests he isn't. Definitely WAS at one time but not any more. Same with Philips. Same with Brunt. The point being that they are all past their sell by date (literally). Harper is only 19 and has progressed well so far. Will he ever be Premier League quality? None of us know. The difference between him and the afore mentioned is that Harper has many years to prove himself. The others don't.

Thanks Timdon, I believe we are on the same wavelength.