Author Topic: Rekeem Harper Joins Ipswich Town  (Read 148129 times)

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Adder

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Re: Rekeem Harper
« Reply #975 on: June 25, 2021, 10:49:31 PM »
What a load of nonsense, if that were true Man City would never buy anybody, they would just get the best kids and build a team.
Any player that comes through our academy and has a professional career is a success. The vast majority of academy players do not.
You may disagree with the previous poster but the opinion is as valid as yours. In short can we not refer to  someone's comments as 'a load of nonsense'.
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WorcsWBA

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Re: Rekeem Harper
« Reply #976 on: June 25, 2021, 10:56:42 PM »
What a load of nonsense, if that were true Man City would never buy anybody, they would just get the best kids and build a team.
Any player that comes through our academy and has a professional career is a success. The vast majority of academy players do not.
Did I say your initial post was "a load of old nonsense"? No, I just replied giving an alternative viewpoint. It's a pity that you have to resort to abuse.

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Re: Rekeem Harper
« Reply #977 on: June 25, 2021, 11:09:11 PM »
Did I say your initial post was "a load of old nonsense"? No, I just replied giving an alternative viewpoint. It's a pity that you have to resort to abuse.
Fair point mate, I meant no offence and should have put it differently. Apologies.

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Re: Rekeem Harper Joins Ipswich Town
« Reply #978 on: June 26, 2021, 07:37:06 AM »
For our academy to be successful first we need to be producing player's on a regular basis that get into first team. Second any promising youngsters need to be persuade not to jump ship at first sign of interest from clubs with deeper pockets, just stick a few photos of Sinclair. Yanda and izzy with where are they now? Third transition to first team for potential should not be long winded or you can stick another few posters of Leko, Field and Harper with caption never given the chance. Saido is our only real success story came through youth setup impressed went out on loan and impressed again was introduced to first team and cemented a regular spot in first 11 plus club made money on his transfer.

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Re: Rekeem Harper
« Reply #979 on: June 26, 2021, 07:53:12 AM »
It is if you see the purpose of the Academy as being to produce players of League 1 or League 2 standard. To my mind, unless players are regularly produced who become fixtures in our first team, the Academy is failing.

Quite right Worcester although I doubt if any academy in the country expects to produce that many of potential first team Premier League standard each year but at least one or maybe two.

The problem is that once they become good enough they are poached by bigger clubs as was the case of Izzy Brown and Ferguson where the time and money spent on them was effectively lost.
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Baltic

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Re: Rekeem Harper Joins Ipswich Town
« Reply #980 on: June 26, 2021, 08:29:49 AM »
Harper has had 4 years in and around our first team and has not manged to nail down a place.  On his latest loan at Blues he remained inconsistent, so on that basis he is still not ready for Championship football (and we want to win it).  His contract situation would have required us to extend it soon, so for me we had no choice but to cash in and move on.

I'm sure Morrison as part of our coaching staff would have been consulted by Allardyce and Dowling about his capability, yet one let him go out on loan and the second engineered the move to Ipswich.

On the academy, I think its doing OK, but only OK.  I'm sure having the players represent England at multiple age groups is not helping.  I imagine its a pampered, cosy environment with agents buzzing around everywhere.  Before they know it the lads think they've 'made it' before they've achieved anything. I would   partner with a couple of Walsall like teams and send 5 or 6 out every season to face lower league professionals.  That will teach them about the real world and accelerate their progress...or show that they aren't mentally tough enough to succeed.  Perhaps we could take a gamble on only one per season where the stand out player gets a 4 year contract to try and avoid the vultures (as they have done with Richards).

 

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Re: Rekeem Harper Joins Ipswich Town
« Reply #981 on: June 26, 2021, 09:36:16 AM »
Sad to see him go, one I think we may well come to regret.

Would have liked to at least give him a few weeks pre-season under Ismael so a proper assessment could have been made by the new coaching staff, but maybe we felt it wasn't fair to hold the deal up. Also assume that we are very confident of Mowatt and other CM targets given the lack of depth there.

Good luck, Rekeem!

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Re: Rekeem Harper Joins Ipswich Town
« Reply #982 on: June 26, 2021, 09:47:22 AM »
Good deal all round. He’s never done it at the Albion and he’s had enough chances. He can’t impose himself in games. He looks decidedly average in the championship and I hope the step down improves him and he goes on to have a great career. Albion have made the right choice though, he’d have made the bench for us at best this season, what’s more if we’d been struggling in a game not one person in the ground would be sitting there thinking ‘oh well at least we’ve got Harper to come on’. Best of luck to him though.

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Re: Rekeem Harper
« Reply #983 on: June 26, 2021, 09:49:06 AM »
Fair point mate, I meant no offence and should have put it differently. Apologies.
Thanks, no worries.

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Re: Rekeem Harper Joins Ipswich Town
« Reply #984 on: June 26, 2021, 10:50:52 AM »
I agree that, for some Academy players, getting a good fee for them when we sell them is useful as it helps to fund the Academy. However, that's not going to be the case when they're going to lower league teams. For example, reports suggest that we're getting about £500k for Harper with possibly some more to come down the line. On the other hand, he's been a member of the first team squad for more than 3 seasons - even if he's only on £10k a week now, he would have received more than £1m in wages in just 2 seasons. On that basis, plus taking into account what it cost before that to develop him at the Academy, we've clearly lost money on him.

Developing players who are only good enough for League 1 at best and also losing money on them in the process can't be regarded as a success in my book. If some come through who are really good, so that they more than offset other Academy players being less successful, would make it more acceptable, but that's not happening is it?

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Re: Rekeem Harper Joins Ipswich Town
« Reply #985 on: June 26, 2021, 12:34:54 PM »
I agree that, for some Academy players, getting a good fee for them when we sell them is useful as it helps to fund the Academy. However, that's not going to be the case when they're going to lower league teams. For example, reports suggest that we're getting about £500k for Harper with possibly some more to come down the line. On the other hand, he's been a member of the first team squad for more than 3 seasons - even if he's only on £10k a week now, he would have received more than £1m in wages in just 2 seasons. On that basis, plus taking into account what it cost before that to develop him at the Academy, we've clearly lost money on him.

Developing players who are only good enough for League 1 at best and also losing money on them in the process can't be regarded as a success in my book. If some come through who are really good, so that they more than offset other Academy players being less successful, would make it more acceptable, but that's not happening is it?
It's difficult to evaluate obviously but if you add up the money for Berahino, Thorne, Roofe, Wood, Roberts, Morgan Rogers, Ferguson (eventually) it's a fair amount. Also O'Shea is now a regular member of the team/match day squad so that saves on a player coming in. If Field, Harper, Edwards hadn't been around for squad cover (that's why they weren't out on loan) in the past 3 - 4 years we'd have needed to bring others in. Then you have to say what value did Berahino's spell in the first team bring...and Harpers back heel for Livermore's late goal at QPR for that matter.
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Re: Rekeem Harper Joins Ipswich Town
« Reply #986 on: June 26, 2021, 01:12:12 PM »
I get the feeling this episode is being used by some to argue for the scrapping of the Academy, which I think would be a big mistake. That means, you are completly at the mercy of the transfer market. How much would a decent midfielder cost in today's market? Considerably more than than the one million Harper is supposed to be costing (although I think Harper is being undervalued).
Fact is, we can't as a club afford to be paying out transfer fees for our entire first team squad. The Academy, with good competent coaches, gives us a pool of players to draw from, mainly with local roots. Obviously many will not make the grade, but others will, even if its just the matchday bench. A proper football club has roots in the local community. Its not just an elite group of players who turn up as a kind of franchise on matchdays.
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Re: Rekeem Harper
« Reply #987 on: June 26, 2021, 01:23:41 PM »
Any academy sabotaged by Dowling

Was it though Frank? Dowling tried to introduce some structure and discipline into the set up. Some long standing employees in cushy positions didn't like it and went elsewhere. Not sure that it is down to Dowling to produce 'oven ready' championship players and I did not notice any disruption during this turbulent period.

Some people got too comfortable and Dowling pulled the rug basically.......

WorcsWBA makes a valid point, if all it is producing players of L2 / L1 standard then isn't it failing? 
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Re: Rekeem Harper Joins Ipswich Town
« Reply #988 on: June 26, 2021, 01:50:21 PM »
I get the feeling this episode is being used by some to argue for the scrapping of the Academy, which I think would be a big mistake. That means, you are completly at the mercy of the transfer market. How much would a decent midfielder cost in today's market? Considerably more than than the one million Harper is supposed to be costing (although I think Harper is being undervalued).
Fact is, we can't as a club afford to be paying out transfer fees for our entire first team squad. The Academy, with good competent coaches, gives us a pool of players to draw from, mainly with local roots. Obviously many will not make the grade, but others will, even if its just the matchday bench. A proper football club has roots in the local community. Its not just an elite group of players who turn up as a kind of franchise on matchdays.
I agree with the sentiment but would say that competent coaching isn't good enough to be a success you need excellent coaches, it's a competitive environment and competent coaching will only yield competent players, ?what we need is more than merely competent
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Re: Rekeem Harper Joins Ipswich Town
« Reply #989 on: June 26, 2021, 02:03:23 PM »
I get the feeling this episode is being used by some to argue for the scrapping of the Academy, which I think would be a big mistake.
I'm not advocating scrapping it, just that I think it needs to do better to justify its continuing existence.