Author Topic: I think it's plausible  (Read 5577 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

TheJacko2000

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 15466
I think it's plausible
« on: September 14, 2014, 11:51:25 AM »
that Roy Hodgson was the worst thing to happen to this club for years. It appears to have given Peace the impression that this head coach thing is viable and works. If we'd gone down under RDM as we certainly would have, the experiment would have finished and we wouldn't be stuck with this youth team buffoon now.

I love Roy but he has pulled the wool over Jeremy's eyes. He was the head coach in name only, he ran our club.
Proud to be a Baggie. BOING BOING.

VVVAlbion

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3341
Re: I think it's plausible
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2014, 11:57:25 AM »
I think it is plausible that our poor home record is down to the type of grass. We haven't got the same results since it was resurfaced.
.COM, allowing everyone the opportunity to have an opinion.

KingKoren

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3899
Re: I think it's plausible
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2014, 11:58:50 AM »
I think it is plausible that our poor home record is down to the type of grass. We haven't got the same results since it was resurfaced.

Why are we so terrible away too?

Legend

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3545
Re: I think it's plausible
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2014, 12:00:58 PM »
Without Roy coming in we'd still be a yo yo club probably. I do think before appointing Irvine the criteria was looking at what Hodgson did here and trying to get someone who's similar in their coaching methods to replicate what Roy did for us. I do miss the guaranteed mid table safety that Roy would give us. Losing him and Ashworth to the FA is something we're still suffering from but I hope we've now got it right, we will see.
the regime don't like it man

Albionic

  • Site Donator
  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 7103
Re: I think it's plausible
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2014, 12:02:44 PM »
Why are we so terrible away too?

I think its plausible that a hole in your argument has been exposed  :-*
Lovin the championship, just lovin it !

VVVAlbion

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3341
Re: I think it's plausible
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2014, 12:07:47 PM »
Damn, didn't think it through properly.  :-[ Shouldn't just make up theories.  :-X
.COM, allowing everyone the opportunity to have an opinion.

SmethDan

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 6379
Re: I think it's plausible
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2014, 12:29:00 PM »
I think its plausible that a hole in your argument has been exposed  :-*


Not so regarding the pitch argument I am afraid to say!
I have it on good authority that the same Man Utd company supplies all Prem' teams their pitch preparation kits.
Coincidentally, their work uniforms are of a white t-towel pattern with bagggy blue shorts.
The bloke I overheard saying this was at the far end of a dimly lit, loud and crowded bar. He may or not have been wearing either claret and spew or gold and cack, I could not really tell.
He insisted that our players have been sent for blood tests and they are allergic to said Man Utd, hence the consistency of performances both home and away.
His logic is sound.
This may or may not be bull poo, but I have to chosen to share my burden.
Thank you one and all.
 :-\.
It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
Oh, and always remember to defecate on those Vile chaps in claret and spew.

costa blanca baggie

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 2476
Re: I think it's plausible
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2014, 02:28:57 PM »

Not so regarding the pitch argument I am afraid to say!
I have it on good authority that the same Man Utd company supplies all Prem' teams their pitch preparation kits.
Coincidentally, their work uniforms are of a white t-towel pattern with bagggy blue shorts.
The bloke I overheard saying this was at the far end of a dimly lit, loud and crowded bar. He may or not have been wearing either claret and spew or gold and cack, I could not really tell.
He insisted that our players have been sent for blood tests and they are allergic to said Man Utd, hence the consistency of performances both home and away.
His logic is sound.
This may or may not be bull poo, but I have to chosen to share my burden.
Thank you one and all.
 :-\.
I think I can safely say, that is one hell of a sh*t theory. :D
Humanity is a parade of fools, and I’m at the front of it...twirling the baton.

robnewbold

  • Junior Baggie

  • Offline
  • **

  • 196
Re: I think it's plausible
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2014, 04:27:15 PM »
its the new kit, and Irvines watch...and that bloke from West Ham we brought in on recruitment who has disappeared from the face of the earth.

I think its plausible that we will win at Spurs next week. in fact given everything thats going on its a dead cert we will... Artificial Intelligence will get a new lease of life and the nightmare will drag on.

It is plausible that JP will be deeply disturbed by what is currently happening and equally plausible he will not do what is needed and get rid of the old pals act that operates behind the scenes.

Until we do that, bring in a proper Manager ( maybe put AI in charge of the Academy) and forget Managing by committee we are destined for Championship / League football for a hell of a long time.

FallOutBoy

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 2644
Re: I think it's plausible
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2014, 05:11:12 PM »
The problem wasn't appointing Hodgson.

It is trying to replicate what Hodgson accomplished without understanding how he did it. The experience, nous, and how he drilled the players. We're looking to play the same way, but we need an experienced manager not an inexperienced coach to do it.

Adder

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Baggie

  • Online
  • *****

  • 4603
Re: I think it's plausible
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2014, 10:28:26 PM »
Think Jacko has a fair point. This idea that you just get the best coach you can and don't worry about any managerial track record is highly flawed. It's pretty obvious that the main man has to deal with the man management side of things and get the players motivated and ready to perform....amongst other things.
Dexy : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Adder : Hull Baggie : lewisant : Political Cake : tommcneill

Bilston Dan

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 2193
Re: I think it's plausible
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2014, 02:21:13 PM »
Think Jacko has a fair point. This idea that you just get the best coach you can and don't worry about any managerial track record is highly flawed. It's pretty obvious that the main man has to deal with the man management side of things and get the players motivated and ready to perform....amongst other things.

It's a doubled edged sword isn't it though? For all the fantastic work Roy did, you can't replace that or his presence. It's all square pegs in round holes. It's hard to put someone else in that position when they do not have the skill to do it how it was done when Roy was here, so you have to change it. It's easy to get stuck in your ways and be comfortable and not change anything because it worked in the past. We have to evolve just like the times.
"I don't get hangovers, I just feel sick and have a headache"

bagstaff

  • Youth Baggie

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 791
Re: I think it's plausible
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2014, 02:47:27 PM »
What to Roy proved is the head coach thing can work, if that head coach has the gravitas to match his coaching abilities.  Obviously Roy came with an extensive cv, (some good, some bad) but also relative recent success.  Putting aside the carziness at Liverpool the players knew they were getting somebody who had recently got a fulham side punching way above their weight in the premiership and reaching a european cup final.  Also I believe Roy took the albion job with a burning desire to impress enough to be in the frame for the England job.

Since then we have employed three 'head' coaches who are deemed within the game to be good coaches, but with no gravitas - no real track records or success stories to light up either the players or the fans with any grain of confidence it was a sound appointment.  Equally in all three i'm just left feeling the day they walked through the door they have fulfilled their ambition - to manage in the premiership. 

If the head coach role by its nature is one of a revolving door then I would rather go back to the Mowbray/Di Matteo style appointments - whose ambitions at least were to progress to bigger clubs than the albion in management.  If we don't see the head coach role as a revolving door, and accept that we are by current standards 'an established premiership club', then we should be appointing an established head coach to reflect such stability.

I don't think RH has necessarily pulled the wool over people's eyes, its just crazy to believe that his success was solely down to his coaching abilities, which unfortunately has been ignored in every appointment since.
"I think quotes are very dangerous things" - Kate Bush
Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.
Ruudi Beglin bagstaff IV

popmonkey

  • Youth Baggie

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 537
Re: I think it's plausible
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2014, 03:02:47 PM »
It doesn't matter what your title is, when it comes to Head Coach v Manager, on a matchday - the role and responsibilities are the same.  You're in charge, and you make the decisions. If things dont pan out how you expect then you need to have the balls to stand up and make the necessary changes.  Hodgson was well used to the setup and knew when he had to be a "coach" and when to be the "manager". He'd been there and done it all before.

At the moment, we're struggling to get the basics right. Defensively we allow the opposition too much time on the ball, which allows them to dictate the game. We don't crowd the opposition in midfield, and NEVER put a tackle in until the last possible moment, which is usually on the edge of the penalty area meaning we will always risk giving away a foul in a dangerous position, or allowing the opponent the chance to cross/shoot.

When we do have the ball, we don't show any urgency to get players up allowing our attacker to have the options to move the ball up the pitch.

It has also been a long time since we did anything worthwhile from a set piece.

Any coach should be able to get this kind of thing sorted out quite quickly, and yet we're still making the same mistakes over and over again. I think that must tell us where the real problems are.
Going down the Brummie Road... To see the Albion Aces!

Baggies

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 19014
Re: I think it's plausible
« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2014, 10:20:20 PM »
The head coach structure works all around Europe and the rest of the world. Generally, the rest of the world have been twenty years in front of us ever since the Austrian's coffee shop football culture in the 30's. I think I will trust them that they have got this right as well.

The problem is not in the structure - it is the way the club have tried to make it work over the last 2 seasons. Ever since Ashworth got that England job we have been stumbling forward like an uncoordinated drunk. Jeremy Peace has proved for me that without a man with football know how, his understanding of how to progress a football club has a limit. Odemwingie's rain cloud and then Mcdonough's signings did for Clarke. Pepe Mel didn't fail because of the structure - he failed because his style was at complete odds with our squad as they were a Hodgson side - unlike the one we have now which may well have done more under Mel.

Now we have Irvine. Peace thinks that we don't need a manager - only need a training ground coach because we have a technical director to do the "manager things" (arrange scouting and signings). That though downplays the final bit - the tactics, team selection and the game day. A training ground coach does not necessarily have the right skill set for that but it seems to be an after thought for our hierarchy.

It isn't the structure that's wrong - it is decisions the club are making. We don't understand how to make it work and haven't since Ashworth left.
Boing Boing

TheJacko2000

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 15466
Re: I think it's plausible
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2014, 11:52:49 PM »
The head coach structure works all around Europe and the rest of the world. Generally, the rest of the world have been twenty years in front of us ever since the Austrian's coffee shop football culture in the 30's. I think I will trust them that they have got this right as well.

The problem is not in the structure - it is the way the club have tried to make it work over the last 2 seasons. Ever since Ashworth got that England job we have been stumbling forward like an uncoordinated drunk. Jeremy Peace has proved for me that without a man with football know how, his understanding of how to progress a football club has a limit. Odemwingie's rain cloud and then Mcdonough's signings did for Clarke. Pepe Mel didn't fail because of the structure - he failed because his style was at complete odds with our squad as they were a Hodgson side - unlike the one we have now which may well have done more under Mel.

Now we have Irvine. Peace thinks that we don't need a manager - only need a training ground coach because we have a technical director to do the "manager things" (arrange scouting and signings). That though downplays the final bit - the tactics, team selection and the game day. A training ground coach does not necessarily have the right skill set for that but it seems to be an after thought for our hierarchy.

It isn't the structure that's wrong - it is decisions the club are making. We don't understand how to make it work and haven't since Ashworth left.

Possibly right mate, BUT, we are trying to do it with dinosaurs. If it's so successful abroad, go and get Paul Clement, get Gary Gordon. And get a manager that has been successful in this type of set-up. A German would probably be the best choice.

Don't bumble along with failures and cast-offs hoping it somehow comes together. Get some experts in.
Proud to be a Baggie. BOING BOING.

kris_boing

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 14900
Re: I think it's plausible
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2014, 07:27:27 AM »
We only got Roy because he already knew he was getting the England job. That's why he only signed a 2 year contract. Roy would never have come to us otherwise. 

The problem at this club is in the two years since he left we have had Garlick running the club and recruitment. Totally out of his depth. Peace trusted him and he failed. It's arguably set us back a few years. We were lucky to get away with it last season. Sadly more bad decisions have been made this season so unless things change quickly we won't be so lucky this time.

VVVAlbion

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3341
Re: I think it's plausible
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2014, 09:03:08 AM »
We only got Roy because he already knew he was getting the England job. That's why he only signed a 2 year contract. Roy would never have come to us otherwise. 

And this statement is based on?
.COM, allowing everyone the opportunity to have an opinion.

Baggies

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 19014
Re: I think it's plausible
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2014, 11:47:07 PM »
Possibly right mate, BUT, we are trying to do it with dinosaurs. If it's so successful abroad, go and get Paul Clement, get Gary Gordon. And get a manager that has been successful in this type of set-up. A German would probably be the best choice.

Don't bumble along with failures and cast-offs hoping it somehow comes together. Get some experts in.

Exactly Jacko, the problem is HOW we have employed people in the structure, not the structure itself. The way to make this system work is by employing the right people.
Boing Boing

dont ask me to choose luv

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1852
Re: I think it's plausible
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2014, 07:42:37 AM »
Possibly right mate, BUT, we are trying to do it with dinosaurs. If it's so successful abroad, go and get Paul Clement, get Gary Gordon. And get a manager that has been successful in this type of set-up. A German would probably be the best choice.

Don't bumble along with failures and cast-offs hoping it somehow comes together. Get some experts in.

Do you mean someone who has had a successful playing career & then gone on to win things as a head coach? a German expert with a excellent CV in the Bundesliga, because I think that man could become available soon if Fulham don't start winning a few games.
Life is about using the whole box of crayons!

SmethDan

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 6379
Re: I think it's plausible
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2014, 10:02:25 AM »
Do you mean someone who has had a successful playing career & then gone on to win things as a head coach? a German expert with a excellent CV in the Bundesliga, because I think that man could become available soon if Fulham don't start winning a few games.

Felix Magath.
I don't do predictions but I reckon this and every other Albion forum would go into melt down, if we were to appoint a boss whose team is currently languishing at the bottom of the Championship with a -10 goal difference.
Regardless of his CV.

Hope you enjoy the rest of your fishing trip.
 ;).

It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
Oh, and always remember to defecate on those Vile chaps in claret and spew.

maccbaggie

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1182
Re: I think it's plausible
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2014, 10:30:48 AM »
The head coach structure works all around Europe and the rest of the world. Generally, the rest of the world have been twenty years in front of us ever since the Austrian's coffee shop football culture in the 30's. I think I will trust them that they have got this right as well.

The problem is not in the structure - it is the way the club have tried to make it work over the last 2 seasons. Ever since Ashworth got that England job we have been stumbling forward like an uncoordinated drunk. Jeremy Peace has proved for me that without a man with football know how, his understanding of how to progress a football club has a limit. Odemwingie's rain cloud and then Mcdonough's signings did for Clarke. Pepe Mel didn't fail because of the structure - he failed because his style was at complete odds with our squad as they were a Hodgson side - unlike the one we have now which may well have done more under Mel.

Now we have Irvine. Peace thinks that we don't need a manager - only need a training ground coach because we have a technical director to do the "manager things" (arrange scouting and signings). That though downplays the final bit - the tactics, team selection and the game day. A training ground coach does not necessarily have the right skill set for that but it seems to be an after thought for our hierarchy.

It isn't the structure that's wrong - it is decisions the club are making. We don't understand how to make it work and haven't since Ashworth left.
This is an excellent post and I wish you'd send something of the same nature so that Peace could read it