Author Topic: Perspective needed.  (Read 7130 times)

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TheJacko2000

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Perspective needed.
« on: January 30, 2014, 01:22:21 AM »
I was there tonight and the result certainly wasn't pretty, but I can't help but think there have been some massive knee jerk reactions that wouldn't have happened if say, we'd just lost 4-3 in the same manner at the Liberty Stadium. The fact it was Villa hurts more and emotions run high, it was a poor defensive performance (from ALL of the back four) but there were promising signs further up the pitch.

I personally, for instance have got a 5 or 6 game amnesty with regard to complaining about team selections (Dorrans was in tonight and I wouldn't have minded seeing him replace Morrison with 20 mins left under different circumstances), the only way Mel will learn is to make mistakes, that said he will have to be careful about the agendas of his coaches and local media, my example was a great deal has been made by the press of McAuley losing out to Lugano, fair enough because he had a stinker overall, BUT, Steven Reid was even worse and no-one has asked why Jones wasn't playing, this concerns me deeply.  My message: Lets get behind Pepe and the team and roar them on to that 40 points mark as early as possible.

Wouldn't it be so typically Albion to sneak something on Sunday against the best strikeforce in the division after leaking goals for fun tonight?
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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2014, 01:23:58 AM »
I was there tonight and the result certainly wasn't pretty, but I can't help but think there have been some massive knee jerk reactions that wouldn't have happened if say, we'd just lost 4-3 in the same manner at the Liberty Stadium. The fact it was Villa hurts more and emotions run high, it was a poor defensive performance (from ALL of the back four) but there were promising signs further up the pitch.

I personally, for instance have got a 5 or 6 game amnesty with regard to complaining about team selections (Dorrans was in tonight and I wouldn't have minded seeing him replace Morrison with 20 mins left under different circumstances), the only way Mel will learn is to make mistakes, that said he will have to be careful about the agendas of his coaches and local media, my example was a great deal has been made by the press of McAuley losing out to Lugano, fair enough because he had a stinker overall, BUT, Steven Reid was even worse and no-one has asked why Jones wasn't playing, this concerns me deeply.  My message: Lets get behind Pepe and the team and roar them on to that 40 points mark as early as possible.

Wouldn't it be so typically Albion to sneak something on Sunday against the best strikeforce in the division after leaking goals for fun tonight?


I think you'll find they have.

TheJacko2000

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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2014, 01:25:29 AM »

I think you'll find they have.

In the media? I haven't seen it anywhere. Stand corrected if that is the case.
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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2014, 01:58:26 AM »
I dont want to poke my beak into injured feelings after you have just lost but I wanted to post somewhere this sentiment. I am a villa fan and very happy about today. But I do think perspective is needed. From my perspective we were bricking it for much of the game. I think Mel had you lot playing some great football in the first 60 mins or so. Some of WBA's passing was just beautiful. You dominated the midfield and pressed very well. If he builds on that you will be just fine.

Losing a derby hurts like hell (I should know) but losing by just 1 goal in a thrilling game decided by a penalty does not mean WBA are likely to get relegated or any such stuff. You lot will be fine and I really rate your new manager.

Good luck.






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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2014, 04:24:01 AM »
Why would we need perspective?   :o

Doom and gloom and ridiculous emotional forum posts are what are needed.... seriously we need them now!!!!!


oh and plus the regular "I told you so" posts and "he never impressed me" threads




Come on how else can we really make each other miserable (except for the trolls who are already having a great time)....

 :P
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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2014, 06:15:43 AM »
I agree Jacko. Losing a derby does hurt, but we will bounce back. As you and ciggies both said, we played some good football at times, it's just a massive over reaction.

I'm actually very disappointed that so many are Mel-bashing after TWO games. I really hope that today, after they've had a chance to cool down that their comments change to a more supportive set. I'm more disappointed with the fans reactions than the fact that we played well at times, and lost by the odd goal in a seven goal thriller.

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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2014, 08:31:06 AM »
Probably happens more then I'd like to admit but totally agree Jacko  ;), sadly I think some need to rant & blame someone until the hurt goes away & many reactions are knee jerk, emotions run very high after a loss (especially against the 'one dimensional lump it up to Christine, veela) need to stick together guys & stay behind the team/coach.

Never read through many posts after the match but this one by 17GD was the best I did read
 
Hopefully some people will take a few minutes before posting, as emotions are understandably running high.

Very disappointed to have come away with nothing after making such a promising start. Fantastic early goal from Brunt and some quick thinking led to our second. Sadly, we allowed Villa to get their game going and we sat back and allowed them to push forward. That being said, up until the final whistle the game was 100mph, so no one can fault the effort put in by our lads.

I think the game was marred by some poor refereeing decisions. Amalfitano went  down in the box - no penalty, only to be followed by the same type of challenge against a Villa player on the half way line moments later and the ref gives a foul to them. Linesman not noticing a corner to us when it happened right in front of him also just added to the frustration.

Guzan appeared to take about 30 - 40 seconds for every goal kick with about 10 mins to go, and was only booked once, Clattenburg obviously thought the many other times after this was acceptable.

Anichebe shouldn't be anywhere near the starting line up on Sunday, neither should Lugano, although I feel Lugano was more unlucky than a liability tonight. He got into their box a number of times but just couldn't hit the target. It happens. Anichebe is just another Emile Heskey - big and bulky but an absolute powder puff when it comes to holding the ball up or holding a man off. Light weight.

It's Pepe's second game, I don't think our previous gaffers received as much stick after their second game in charge, why start with Pepe? Give the bloke ten games and then make a judgement.

Overall disappointed, we need to remember that Albion do this: we lose to teams we should be beating, and snatch points from teams we expect to lose to, we've done it since I can remember, and I started going in the early 90s. We're going to be fine.


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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2014, 09:12:49 AM »
We did create a lot of chances last night, but that's the second time in a month we have scored three goals away from home and not won the match, in all honestly we should have won both of those games. I think once Mcauley and Jones are back in the side we will look stronger at the back, which is where we will have enough to stay up.
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Albion79

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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2014, 09:29:56 AM »
Good post Jacko, last night was a strange one as its the first time this season i have actually felt we will be relegated (even after our start i have been confident) but i am positive about the future if that makes any sense?!

Last night was building up for a while and it confirmed to me that we are now approaching the end of an era with players who hit new levels for me as an Albion fan, i said in my pre match chat on paper we have a better team and squad than Villa, yet they are 5 points clear of us and took 4 points off us and the facts dont lie. There in lies the problem, i personally have looked at our squad and based my views on reputations, past performances and gave the benefit of the doubt, sadly its now becoming clear thats what a lot of these players now have, past reputations.

If you go through our squad for the last 16-18 months, you could say probably only Foster, Myhill, Jones and GMac have performed consistently well, Berahino has shown a lot of potential, but other than that if you list the players, who has actually played well in a number of games for a period of time, some have shown the odd good game but no consistency.

I would say the following have got worse - Reid, Olsson, Ridgewell, Popov, Mulumbu, Yacob, Morrison, Brunt, Long (when he was here) I think the likes of Dawson, Dorrans and Rosenberg have contributed little as they have hardly played, yet most of the time they have been fit and still cant get a sniff so that maybe doesnt give cause for optimism. Sess, Alfie, Anichebe, Anelka, Lugano, Sinclair and Vdrya all perhaps have a bit longer to prove themselves as they only joined 6 x months ago, but with most of them, it would appear the initial early promise has been knocked out of them and they are playing a similar level to the rest of the squad.

As i say that squad have provided some great highlights over the years, they have raised the bar and been good players and they did us proud, but 16 months of bad play isnt a run of bad form or bad luck, its they are not the standard they once were and its time to move on. I wouldnt be looking to get rid of all of them but certainly out our current 25 man squad i would be looking to ship out 12-14 and bring in 12 no matter what league we are in next season and start afresh.

I have seen enough from Pepe's 2 games in charge to see they we could be an entertaining side which i think is what most of us want, and i hope he is given the scope to bring in players he wants and begin a new era at Albion, it happened under Mowbray and set the tone for the next 5-6 years and i hope it does for Mel.

Heres to the future.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2014, 09:32:14 AM by Albion79 »

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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2014, 09:46:05 AM »
I think you seriously need to consider the alternative perspective.

We've conceded 4 times, and should have conceded a lot more to a side who scored 8 this season at home. West Ham we did the same, conceding 3. This was after leads in both games. I see absolutely no evidence to suggest that under Mel or otherwise the problem that this side rarely gets leads, and then when it does, somehow manages to throw them away every single time, is going to somehow be solved.

Please, tell me where the positive in the fact we've picked up next to no points against bottom half teams these past few months is, and what's worse is we genuinely haven't looked like winning any of these games. As soon as it went to 2-1 we weren't going to win, and as soon as they made it 2-2 it was pretty clear there was only going to be one winner.

Every other team in this division shows bouts of form, Sunderland, Palace, they're all getting pretty regularly wins, even West Ham, they get them when they really need them. We don't. We're sleepwalking into relegation and it shouldn't be accepted.

I could understand being positive about yesterday if we absolutely dominated but truthfully Villa had a lot more and a lot better chances. You would struggle to argue if we'd taken our chances we could have scored more than 4 (Lugano's miss), Villa would say about 8. And they're not even a good attacking side. I simply cannot see us ever winning against a top half side playing like this, and we're going to struggle big time against the bottom half too who have sensible plans.

It frightens me that if opposition managers could pick our tactics and team for us, they'd choose what we'r currently going for.

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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2014, 09:52:49 AM »
I understand why Mel went with the same back 4 as did in the Everton game where we coped reasonably well with a more potent side than Villa. There were encouraging signs going forward and in both Everton and Villa games our passing and movement at times were a lot crisper than they have been for a while.

All that said regardless of the opposition the defending last night was just awful. It is easy to highlight the main culprits and none of the defenders covered themselves with glory, although in fairness to Olsson when 3 out of four are having a complete mare the fourth man is just going to be run ragged trying to cover.

I never want to see an Albion team defend so poorly it was like having Mowbray back and that ended badly. Unless it improves and dramatically we will struggle to pick up another point this season. Fortunately we can improve by changing the personnel and if needs be letting the defence drop back a little deeper this might not be what the coach wants but a series of 4:3 defeats is not going to keep us in the Division.

If we are going to have our defensive frailties exposed it is better that it happens against Villa rather than one of the better teams because there is no hiding behind the quality of the opposition. In truth Villa didn't take advantage of half of the chances we gifted them and it would have been double figures against any of the teams in the top six in the league. 

They say good coaches learn more about a team when it plays badly than when it plays well. Defensively Mel should have learnt a lot from last night.
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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2014, 10:01:49 AM »
I have taken the positive that this manager wants us to entertain and unfortunately the players we have, a lot of them are not good enough anymore.

Some of the football was a positive last night, overall the performance was rubbish though, but i am looking at the bigger picture, this is the end of an era for a large chunk of that squad, in hindsight we should of began the revamp in the summer and introduced younger and hungry players instead of the experienced players we did sign, but hindsight is a wonderful thing, i understand giving the existing players a chance but it would seem it may be a season too far for them.

I think we will go down but as i said previous, Mowbray launched a new era at Albion which for me was still the most entertaining of my 27 years going and played a big part in the last few years of decent success, its coming to an end now, but i am hoping Pepe will be given the chance to put his mark on it.

I am not writing this season off, far from it, but we dont have the players to play Pepe's style, and if you ask him to start playing a different way you may as well of not brought him in and stuck with Downing and Kiely.

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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2014, 10:11:51 AM »
I have taken the positive that this manager wants us to entertain and unfortunately the players we have, a lot of them are not good enough anymore.

Some of the football was a positive last night, overall the performance was rubbish though, but i am looking at the bigger picture, this is the end of an era for a large chunk of that squad, in hindsight we should of began the revamp in the summer and introduced younger and hungry players instead of the experienced players we did sign, but hindsight is a wonderful thing, i understand giving the existing players a chance but it would seem it may be a season too far for them.

I think we will go down but as i said previous, Mowbray launched a new era at Albion which for me was still the most entertaining of my 27 years going and played a big part in the last few years of decent success, its coming to an end now, but i am hoping Pepe will be given the chance to put his mark on it.

I am not writing this season off, far from it, but we dont have the players to play Pepe's style, and if you ask him to start playing a different way you may as well of not brought him in and stuck with Downing and Kiely.

Excellent comments Abion79, that says everything I was thinking about but haven't posted!  Seconded.

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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2014, 10:23:41 AM »
I have taken the positive that this manager wants us to entertain and unfortunately the players we have, a lot of them are not good enough anymore.

Some of the football was a positive last night, overall the performance was rubbish though, but i am looking at the bigger picture, this is the end of an era for a large chunk of that squad, in hindsight we should of began the revamp in the summer and introduced younger and hungry players instead of the experienced players we did sign, but hindsight is a wonderful thing, i understand giving the existing players a chance but it would seem it may be a season too far for them.

I think we will go down but as i said previous, Mowbray launched a new era at Albion which for me was still the most entertaining of my 27 years going and played a big part in the last few years of decent success, its coming to an end now, but i am hoping Pepe will be given the chance to put his mark on it.

I am not writing this season off, far from it, but we dont have the players to play Pepe's style, and if you ask him to start playing a different way you may as well of not brought him in and stuck with Downing and Kiely.

For me this transition (which is badly needed) should have been started in the summer and not now. We needed a safe pair of hands to see us through to the end of this season and keep our Prem status. The summer is going to see a major overhaul of the playing squad anyway regardless of who is in charge.

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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2014, 10:29:32 AM »
I dont want to poke my beak into injured feelings after you have just lost but I wanted to post somewhere this sentiment. I am a villa fan and very happy about today. But I do think perspective is needed. From my perspective we were bricking it for much of the game. I think Mel had you lot playing some great football in the first 60 mins or so. Some of WBA's passing was just beautiful. You dominated the midfield and pressed very well. If he builds on that you will be just fine.

Losing a derby hurts like hell (I should know) but losing by just 1 goal in a thrilling game decided by a penalty does not mean WBA are likely to get relegated or any such stuff. You lot will be fine and I really rate your new manager.

Good luck.
Fair comments in all honesty. It was a game eitherside could've nicked at the end of the day, neither side covered themselves in glory and yes I believe there was reason for optimism, at least up front, but defensively we have got to sort it out. The manner we gave the goals away was criminal. A 4-3 defeat I always think is better than a 1-0 defeat, as we've shown some desire to win. I think we are very similar to you guys last season, and will only just scrape through if we do stay up that is.

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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2014, 10:43:52 AM »
Fair comments in all honesty. It was a game eitherside could've nicked at the end of the day, neither side covered themselves in glory and yes I believe there was reason for optimism, at least up front, but defensively we have got to sort it out. The manner we gave the goals away was criminal. A 4-3 defeat I always think is better than a 1-0 defeat, as we've shown some desire to win. I think we are very similar to you guys last season, and will only just scrape through if we do stay up that is.

Hopefully Pepe is good enough to sort us out. It is very difficult to win when your defence is leaky and your players have forgotten how to win.

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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2014, 10:54:04 AM »
Hopefully Pepe is good enough to sort us out. It is very difficult to win when your defence is leaky and your players have forgotten how to win.
Clearly would need 2/3 players of his own by midnight Friday to stand a chance in my humble.
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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2014, 10:56:14 AM »
we all have a part to play now. we need to back this lot starting on Sunday
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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2014, 10:57:52 AM »
I have taken the positive that this manager wants us to entertain and unfortunately the players we have, a lot of them are not good enough anymore.

Some of the football was a positive last night, overall the performance was rubbish though, but i am looking at the bigger picture, this is the end of an era for a large chunk of that squad, in hindsight we should of began the revamp in the summer and introduced younger and hungry players instead of the experienced players we did sign, but hindsight is a wonderful thing, i understand giving the existing players a chance but it would seem it may be a season too far for them.

I think we will go down but as i said previous, Mowbray launched a new era at Albion which for me was still the most entertaining of my 27 years going and played a big part in the last few years of decent success, its coming to an end now, but i am hoping Pepe will be given the chance to put his mark on it.

I am not writing this season off, far from it, but we dont have the players to play Pepe's style, and if you ask him to start playing a different way you may as well of not brought him in and stuck with Downing and Kiely.

The Mowbray inspired era ended rather abruptly with the appointment of Hodgson who got us organised and stopped us shipping goals for fun which was something of a habit that we had kept from the Mowbray years. We have had four seasons in the Premier League and it could be argued that we have done this on the back of playing progressively less attractive football.

I agree with you that Mel is the right appointment and playing a more attractive style of football is something we should be aiming for. However my criticism of Mowbray was the complete lack of pragmatism in his approach and if Mel does not have the players to play the way he wants then he has to be astute enough has to make some compromises to make sure we are not relegated.

In one sense you are right that we may as well have kept Downing and Keily in charge in that the role over the next few months is essentially a holding job to get us through to the end of the season with enough points to ensure survival. Appointing Mel now rather than in the summer gives him the chance to work with the players and sort the wheat from the chaff.

I agree there is a massive job to do over the summer but it is going to be far easier to do that job as a Premier League Club than one that has just been relegated to the Championship, purely because there will be players we would wish to retain that might not want to be playing Championship football.

I hope Mel succeeds in bringing in a new style to the club, but he must do what needs to be done to preserve the club's Premier League status because it is difficult to build a Premier League team in the Championship.   
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Jack Russell

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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2014, 11:28:02 AM »
What top journalist at the start of the season said we would  finish top 4, that Norwich fan, cant remember his name.Was it tongue in cheek
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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2014, 11:36:01 AM »
Standaman, financially its a killer now. I've said it before, the championship is a tough league to break out of. Whats become of bolton, blackburn, wigan etc? Can't see them coming up anytime soon at all.

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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2014, 02:26:19 PM »
Standaman, financially its a killer now. I've said it before, the championship is a tough league to break out of. Whats become of bolton, blackburn, wigan etc? Can't see them coming up anytime soon at all.

I think we would be in a better financial position than those teams you mention but I wouldn't under estimate the size of task that would confront us which is why I feel Pepe Mel has to compromise his style if that is what is required to keep us up.
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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2014, 05:25:51 PM »
I will cheer the team on and be positive until end of the season to help them but its been a bad season with little enjoyment, i still dont think were the worst team in this league but its down to whether the players want it enough and pepes tactics.

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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2014, 05:52:57 PM »
The fact that it was a local derby I think is what makes it worse as if the players were going to be "on their metal" for any game , it should have been last night !!!

We played the worst team in 40 years that Villa have had without their star player ( Agbonlahor ) and still they put 4 past us without breaking sweat. They didn't WORK for a single one of their goals, they had them gifted to them.

ANY OTHER TEAM in the entire premier league, and some in the Chumps league would have beat Villa last night from a position of being 2 - 0 up after 10 minutes. What we did last night, and on other occasions against teams in the lower part of the premier league is criminal. Pee poor performances ( some of them at home ), goals conceded without as much as a whimper, poor decisions on and off the pitch, throwing away leads against teams who couldn't score in a brothel 3 at a time in some cases. And now a run of games against top sides bang on form and playing for European places with a back four shipping goals against poor teams. Palace away we'll get out thought by Pulis and Fulham at home we hardly ever get anything, as for Liverpool and Chelsea, well, show me anyone who thinks we'll get anything and I'll provide the straight jacket.

Not just because of last night ( but that was the straw for the camels back ) but overall this season, we just seem to make all the wrong decisions, everything is going against us, we have no luck whatsoever, and no bottle or fight in the team, and a team that seems incapable of winning from any situation just spells one thing for me.

After the next 3 games WE WILL BE in the relegation zone, AND THERE WE WILL STAY.
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Re: Perspective needed.
« Reply #24 on: January 30, 2014, 05:59:13 PM »
I think we would be in a better financial position than those teams you mention but I wouldn't under estimate the size of task that would confront us which is why I feel Pepe Mel has to compromise his style if that is what is required to keep us up.
I'd hope so, but even so i'd still be concerned that the competitiveness increases every year in the championship, and who in the squad would stick with us if we went down?