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West Bromwich Albion FC Forums => West Bromwich Albion FC => Topic started by: biggerthanbigvic on September 05, 2020, 12:18:24 PM

Title: Luke Dowling
Post by: biggerthanbigvic on September 05, 2020, 12:18:24 PM
I don’t usually post on here, as you can see from my very dated username. But I’m an avid reader most days.

Considering the transfer activity we’ve completed and are reportedly due to complete at this moment in time, I think Dowling deserves a lot of credit for the work he’s done.

We’ve secured the engine of our team last season for less than Villa are likely to spend on an injury prone Callum Wilson and that can’t be sniffed at.

To swap a useless Burke with a decent option in Robinson (who no doubt is a good influence in the dressing room) and probably save on wages as well is a master stroke.

I know we’ve got a long way to go in the window and we still need an ST, CM (on top of Krovi) and an LB, you’ve got to commend him for the position we are in. And crucially, we have the two domestic loans intact which I’ve no doubt we will utilise later in the window when the big boys start to spend and players become available.

I started this window convinced we were down before a ball would be kicked. But if we continue like this, there could be hope yet. Bilić can’t say he hasn’t been backed within the limits of the club either.

The only down side at this moment in time is not being able to get down the Hawthorns to watch Grady and crew proper attack the prem!

Boing Boing.

J.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: skyclad99 on September 05, 2020, 12:21:06 PM
I don’t usually post on here, as you can see from my very dated username. But I’m an avid reader most days.

Considering the transfer activity we’ve completed and are reportedly due to complete at this moment in time, I think Dowling deserves a lot of credit for the work he’s done.

We’ve secured the engine of our team last season for less than Villa are likely to spend on an injury prone Callum Wilson and that can’t be sniffed at.

To swap a useless Burke with a decent option in Robinson (who no doubt is a good influence in the dressing room) and probably save on wages as well is a master stroke.

I know we’ve got a long way to go in the window and we still need an ST, CM (on top of Krovi) and an LB, you’ve got to commend him for the position we are in. And crucially, we have the two domestic loans intact which I’ve no doubt we will utilise later in the window when the big boys start to spend and players become available.

I started this window convinced we were down before a ball would be kicked. But if we continue like this, there could be hope yet. Bilić can’t say he hasn’t been backed within the limits of the club either.

The only down side at this moment in time is not being able to get down the Hawthorns to watch Grady and crew proper attack the prem!

Boing Boing.

J.

You wont last long on this site BigVic posting sensible stuff like this ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on September 05, 2020, 01:33:13 PM
There's a couple and i can't remember if its here or twitter, but they claim Dowling is useless, that every good thing is down to Bilic. I'm not sure how much of what falls under the influence of each person, but its clearly working as a set-up, so long may it continue.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: AlbionFan on September 05, 2020, 01:39:33 PM
It's as much of a team off the field as it is on
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiebof on September 05, 2020, 06:27:39 PM
I like the profile of signing that Dowling has been targeting, my qualm with him is that he seems limited to the domestic market only but he's been good otherwise.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 05, 2020, 06:46:38 PM
Considering the transfer activity we’ve completed and are reportedly due to complete at this moment in time, I think Dowling deserves a lot of credit for the work he’s done.

There was a poster on here slagging him off last week on literally the day we had a bid accepted for Diangana (before it was leaked). As I said last week before the signing broke the time to judge is when the window closes.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on September 05, 2020, 07:31:27 PM
There was a poster on here slagging him off last week on literally the day we had a bid accepted for Diangana (before it was leaked). As I said last week before the signing broke the time to judge is when the window closes.

The time to judge is at the end of the window, but this idea fans have to press reset on their opinions and discount anything historical any time we enter a new transfer window, or press reset for one reason or another (such as sacking a manager) is nonsense. It is perfectly reasonable to judge, draw conclusions and make predictions based on the past when it comes to Dowling, the owner, chief execs, managers, or players.

Judging on one signing is positively or negatively is silly when we need so much. If we needed two or three, each individual move could probably have more scrutiny, but considering our position we will have to look at our business on a whole.

Although, didn't you call the board (which Dowling is part of) clowns over one particular transfer? (A Robinson?) so I'm not sure why you see someone slagging him off as so incredulous.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: seteefeet on September 05, 2020, 07:47:51 PM
It's as much of a team off the field as it is on
Drop the mic. You've nailed it.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: jamesh_91 on September 05, 2020, 08:55:39 PM
Drop the mic. You've nailed it.

You can't attribute all the success to a team effort and then all the failings at one man.

Praise where it's due for me at the level of accountability.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on September 05, 2020, 11:26:32 PM
I do doubt if Dowling has enough to establish us as a prem side and if he is the right man for this job. That doesn't mean he is useless or that nothing he has done has been positive.

I've given my reasons on here a few times and explained my concerns with him and they haven't changed at this point.

He alienated the academy upon his arrival, losing most of our best staff and then 3 of our most promising players in a 12 month period (more nearly left with others still potentially going). His scouting has been very domestic market centric, which can reap some rewards but which is also an old fashioned approach which stops you exploring huge swathes of potential around the world. I have also felt that at times, he does not do his business quick enough, leaving too much to the last minute.

His signings up to this point have been 50% hit 50% miss, with  his most expensive signings being the biggest misses, and yes, our best signing under him was somebody identified by Bilic from a market Dowling wouldn't look in himself. I think a club like ours needs to be operating at near enough 95% of potential to achieve and i'm not yet convinced that Dowling is dynamic enough to achieve that.

There are positives of course.

He has a clear approach in terms of lowering the age of the players we buy, signing people who have the potential to generate some big sell on fees (the right business model for a club like ours). The likes of Sawyers, Ajayi and Furlong last season were low cost successes and Kipre this year also seems to be in that sort of profile.

He has also so far finished every transfer window having concluded deals for players in the positions we need. The players haven't always been successes, but he hasn't up to this point seen a window close and left you feeling like we failed to sign enough players, which has happened at times in the years before him.

I also feel he is showing signs of improvement, with him realising eventually that the likes of Field, Leko, Morton and Palmer needed loan moves rather than letting them stagnate in PL2 football, which I hope is something he is going to continue to expand over the course of the next month. He is speeding up how quickly he works this summer which is another plus and his work on the Diangana deal is a big plus.

In time he might prove to be the right man and prove me wrong, he does get credit where it's due for some things he does, but i'd be lying if I didn't lay out my feelings now and highlight the concerns I have. The jury is still out for me.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on September 06, 2020, 12:44:57 AM
Totally fair post mate and i welcome informed and observed input on him and indeed anything Albion related. My issue was very much with one or two who come out with things like "he's a dick, i won't go into why, but if you know, you know." Which is of no use as far as conversation goes.

I do wonder why he did what he did with the academy. It seems an odd move, but there must have been a logic to it.

In regards to losing young talent to top 6 teams, i think a large chunk of that is down to parents and the current system. I do get that a 16 year old lad faced with a "signing on" fee of £1m to sign a 5 year contract at Man City is faced with an enormous choice and i think its down to us as a club to instill over the years an ethos that here is the best place (also, why do our contracts for these lads always end at like 19, just the age where if they've made it they can walk for a tiny fee?)

Rather than see examples like Lou Barry and the like as negatives i think actually getting the lads to stay is a positive. I can only hope Slaven signs a new contract soon as his being the boss is a massive boost. As long as we're not thrashed weekly i'd even keep him if we went down.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 06, 2020, 02:28:59 AM
The time to judge is at the end of the window, but this idea fans have to press reset on their opinions and discount anything historical any time we enter a new transfer window, or press reset for one reason or another (such as sacking a manager) is nonsense. It is perfectly reasonable to judge, draw conclusions and make predictions based on the past when it comes to Dowling, the owner, chief execs, managers, or players.

Judging on one signing is positively or negatively is silly when we need so much. If we needed two or three, each individual move could probably have more scrutiny, but considering our position we will have to look at our business on a whole.

Although, didn't you call the board (which Dowling is part of) clowns over one particular transfer? (A Robinson?) so I'm not sure why you see someone slagging him off as so incredulous.

It's taken some effort but I've just about read the above post in English and I think I've understood most of your points. Correct I slagged the board off (calling them clowns) for not matching the offer for Robinson who signed for Fulham. Dowling doesn't set the budget, he doesn't get to choose how much money we have to spend.  In respect of his own performance, as I have said consistently, the time to judge is when the window closes and we can stand back and look at all of the decisions, good and bad, rationally.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: frazzle on September 06, 2020, 07:43:12 AM
i'm happy with much of what he's done so far. Admittedly the signs at the start with the Academy were worrying but that seems to have settled down now and I can understand the logic behind some of the changesif what I'd read is accurate.

Some good debate on here but I'd suggest that the view that his signings have been 50/50 is probably a bit harsh. I'd agree that Zohore and arguably Austin havent come up to scratch, but the remaining have either been very solid signings, like Furlong, Grosicki, or have been an absolute steal, Ajayi, Sawyers, Pereira, Diangana.

Either way our club is a much more positive place now weve got rid of the Pulis hangover and this season we have a chnace to build a reputation as a well run dynamic club and team, which may make us more attractive to investors than we have been previously.

The big signing for me will be to extend Bilic' contract. This is the final season on his contract I think? We need him to stay for longer, and hopefully as we build a team he will want to stay.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on September 06, 2020, 08:22:14 AM
It's taken some effort but I've just about read the above post in English and I think I've understood most of your points. Correct I slagged the board off (calling them clowns) for not matching the offer for Robinson who signed for Fulham. Dowling doesn't set the budget, he doesn't get to choose how much money we have to spend.  In respect of his own performance, as I have said consistently, the time to judge is when the window closes and we can stand back and look at all of the decisions, good and bad, rationally.

Nothing wrong with the English other than a typo where I’ve somehow ended up with ‘is’ instead of ‘either’. Little upset your hypocrisy has been highlighted?

No Dowling doesn’t set how much we have to spend, but it would be fair to say he’s got input on how we allocate our budget and he’s probably the deciding vote on the majority of individual moves.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 06, 2020, 08:24:34 AM
Nothing wrong with the English other than a typo where I’ve somehow ended up with ‘is’ instead of ‘either’. Little upset your hypocrisy has been highlighted?

No Dowling doesn’t set how much we have to spend, but it would be fair to say he’s got input on how we allocate our budget and he’s probably the deciding vote on the majority of individual moves.

Surely the final deciding vote is Bilic.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on September 06, 2020, 09:17:32 AM
Surely the final deciding vote is Bilic.

I’d hope Bilic can veto any deals, but if a player is of interest most case by case  decisions on how high we go with fees and wages are going to sit above him and with Dowling (providing it sits within the overall budget set by the CEO / owner).

As sporting and technical director I think Dowling will have a lot of operational authority. Especially given Ken’s relative inexperience.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Standaman on September 06, 2020, 12:13:43 PM
There has to be dialogue between Dowling and Bilic on recruitment and squad management. Although Bilic is the higher profile figure and probably paid more ultimately Dowling is Bilic's boss and Xu Ke is the CEO in turn is Dowling's boss and  accountable to the ownership for the day to day management of the club.

In no other business does someone 3 rungs down the ladder get a veto on operational matters. I once was charged with walking into a board room to explain that the boys on the trading floor didn't much like the way things were run (and yes in FS sometimes star traders do wag the dog) it didn't end well.

Yes,I know football is different and there is a lot tabloid bluster and column inches expended on manager x being in conflict with Director y over Carlos Kicakball's multi million pound transfer and in some cases it might even be true but for the most part Head Coach and Director of football have to work together.

They might have slightly different perspectives and Bilic might even have a veto but if things come to that they aren't working properly.  If there is a constant conflict it ends only one way and let me see what generally turnovers quicker Head Coaches or Directors of Football? There is the answer.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Evo_Baggies on September 18, 2020, 03:37:40 PM
I think as it stands I'd love one more midfielder (Krov) and of course a striker maybe two.

I think the next few weeks will be crucial to see how hes done this transfer window but I have to say so far im hugely impressed. I didnt think we would ever see Diangana in an albion shirt again. The fact we have brough in Callum Robinson to get rid of deadwood burke was an amazing piece of business. Ivanovic and  Kipre both for less than a million , and now Gallagher. I think we have done well considering out limited budget from the board.

I think if we land a good striker, Dowling has given us a fighting chance of staying up.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: wba1968-Tim on September 18, 2020, 04:13:07 PM
I agree he’s done s decent job on the whole but I still think there is work to do. I don’t think that Krov is the essential piece of business that needs doing though.
If we don’t upgrade or strikers quite considerably we are going to really struggle.
I like Kanu for his effort but like Austin and Zohore they are not of the quality needed in the Premier League.
For a really successful window we would see two of the above depart with two incoming.
I really hope we can achieve that, then we will have had a really good window and Dowling will be well worthy of the praise
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on September 18, 2020, 05:02:04 PM
He may have done a decent job negotiating, but a big part of his job is managing recruitment which includes overall identification of players (which will be supported by a team i assume, including scouts, which he manages).

Most of us could have identified (and many did) most of our signings and known targets this year and yet it isnt a major part of our job description. In this respect they are lazy and uninspiring and leave us at the mercy of inflated domestic fees.

What happened to these 'lists' or the players we have been negotiating with that are 'not in the public domain'.

We also still don't have a striker, which was one of the single most important positons we needed to fill.

He has done some things well, no doubt. However there is far more to his job than the bits he has done well, which is why its hard to say he has done a decent job.

I honestly believe if I had 30 hours a week to work on player identification I could do better.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on September 18, 2020, 05:19:56 PM
He may have done a decent job negotiating, but a big part of his job is managing recruitment which includes overall identification of players (which will be supported by a team i assume, including scouts, which he manages).

Most of us could have identified (and many did) most of our signings and known targets this year and yet it isnt a major part of our job description. In this respect they are lazy and uninspiring and leave us at the mercy of inflated domestic fees.

What happened to these 'lists' or the players we have been negotiating with that are 'not in the public domain'.

We also still don't have a striker, which was one of the single most important positons we needed to fill.

He has done some things well, no doubt. However there is far more to his job than the bits he has done well, which is why its hard to say he has done a decent job.

I honestly believe if I had 30 hours a week to work on player identification I could do better.

I bet we’d have a frickin’ striker by now if you were johnny Cash!

I can tell if I was doing Dowling’s job, a damn good striker would have been signed, sealed and delivered a month ago. None of this ******* about.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SmethDan on September 18, 2020, 05:27:37 PM
.......What happened to these 'lists' or the players we have been negotiating with that are 'not in the public domain'........

The selling clubs refused to accept the Green Shield stamps we've been hoarding, as for the Luke Dowling 'Have a Hug' tokens well the less said about those the better.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: FallOutBoy on September 18, 2020, 05:30:54 PM
I don't think he's done a good job at all. Quite the opposite in fact.

I think the Diangana signing is to placate either the fans, or his own ego. It was a lot of our budget to commit, and I'm wary that it might leave us short in other areas.

Aside from that, I think he's built a side that is going to be in a straight shoot-out for bottom with Fulham. All of his signings have been domestic; the foreign ones came from Bilic and co. The players he has signed have been either players who have been there and done it before (such as Austin), or are the stand out players in poor teams (Ajayi). All of his targets have been very obvious signings, but I don't think any have really proven to be at the level we need from them to stay in this division.

When we bought him out of his contract, Forest were days from sacking him, which says everything. We need a new Dan Ashworth, and this guy isn't it.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: KN22 on September 18, 2020, 05:31:54 PM
I bet we’d have a frickin’ striker by now if you were johnny Cash!

I can tell if I was doing Dowling’s job, a damn good striker would have been signed, sealed and delivered a month ago. None of this ******* about.

If only it was that easy, he too would have signed one by now.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on September 18, 2020, 05:38:52 PM
Completely unimpressed. Most of the better signings have been through Bilic.

The fact we still don't have a striker is absolutely appalling.

The lack of overseas scouting/recruiting in general is almost negligence in footballing terms leaving us at the mercy of the overpriced UK market.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 19, 2020, 12:05:00 AM
The posts on here slagging Dowling off whilst the transfer window is still open are pathetic. Last summer was an unmitigated success which led to promotion. This summer the recruitment is still ongoing. The earliest time to judge is once the window has closed (arguably through once the players in have succeeded or failed months later). Albeit the pro's and con's of whoever we have signed will need to be weighed up against our budget - which media reports have put at a pittance. All of the posts above slagging of our recruitment mid transfer window are are beyond an embarrassment.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Ross on September 19, 2020, 12:57:38 AM
Has anyone let Dowling know that you can scout abroad yet ?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie38 on September 19, 2020, 02:01:41 AM
Has anyone let Dowling know that you can scout abroad yet ?

I don't think so and before anybody says but we got Krovinovic and Perreira last season from overseas clubs they were Billics recommendations.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on September 19, 2020, 08:53:36 AM
The posts on here slagging Dowling off whilst the transfer window is still open are pathetic. Last summer was an unmitigated success which led to promotion. This summer the recruitment is still ongoing. The earliest time to judge is once the window has closed (arguably through once the players in have succeeded or failed months later). Albeit the pro's and con's of whoever we have signed will need to be weighed up against our budget - which media reports have put at a pittance. All of the posts above slagging of our recruitment mid transfer window are are beyond an embarrassment.

How can last summer be called an unmitigated success when we bought Zohore?

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: zippyandbungle on September 19, 2020, 08:55:19 AM
I don't think so and before anybody says but we got Krovinovic and Perreira last season from overseas clubs they were Billics recommendations.
So now I understand it
Transfer kitty is split 50/50....if they are good it the euros that billic spent, if they are bad it’s English pounds.....
Was semi on holiday when we signed him?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: skyclad99 on September 19, 2020, 09:09:24 AM
How can last summer be called an unmitigated success when we bought Zohore?

One that didnt work JC, the others were rather better so on the balance of probabilities I would say that our window was pretty good really......every club buys a lemon now and then.....look at villa, its a complete greengrocers.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on September 19, 2020, 09:19:18 AM
One that didnt work JC, the others were rather better so on the balance of probabilities I would say that our window was pretty good really......every club buys a lemon now and then.....look at villa, its a complete greengrocers.

Ok add Austin.  £12m of 19m spent. How is that absolute success. It’s not. It’s £12m that spent better  could have changed the requirements of this summer.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: zippyandbungle on September 19, 2020, 10:09:38 AM
Ok add Austin.  £12m of 19m spent. How is that absolute success. It’s not. It’s £12m that spent better  could have changed the requirements of this summer.
Your points valid, but the club will say that previously with Jrod,Gayle,Barnes...we didn’t get up....but with Austin, HRK, Zohore we did....?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WBASweden on September 19, 2020, 10:19:59 AM
Has anyone let Dowling know that you can scout abroad yet ?

This makes me wonder, Downling used to be at Watford right? Well Watford has been recruiting most of their players/managers from overseas for a pretty long time going back to when Dowling was there. Who made those decisions?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Webby on September 19, 2020, 10:26:44 AM
This makes me wonder, Downling used to be at Watford right? Well Watford has been recruiting most of their players/managers from overseas for a pretty long time going back to when Dowling was there. Who made those decisions?

Didn’t the Udinese owners own them? Or was that ages ago? Maybe they had a say
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 19, 2020, 02:09:13 PM
Ok add Austin.  £12m of 19m spent. How is that absolute success. It’s not. It’s £12m that spent better  could have changed the requirements of this summer.

It was obviously a success as we got automatically promoted against the odds. Austin scored some very important goals last season.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on September 19, 2020, 02:19:16 PM
It was obviously a success as we got automatically promoted against the odds. Austin scored some very important goals last season.

You are missing the point. Correlation doesn’t imply causation, it’s far more nuanced than that. If you think our business last summer was unmitigated (which means absolute, couldn’t have been better) than I can’t help you.

It also wasn’t against the odds. We would have been one of the favourites. Half way through the season we were odds on.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 19, 2020, 02:21:21 PM
You are missing the point. Correlation doesn’t imply causation, it’s far more nuanced than that. If you think our business last summer was unmitigated (which means absolute, couldn’t have been better) than I can’t help you.

It also wasn’t against the odds. We would have been one of the favourites. Half way through the season we were odds on.

I've given up debating this mate.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: paulosull on September 19, 2020, 02:55:59 PM
I know he's restricted with funds but he's had more misses than hits and for some strange reason is reluctant to go abroad. Would love if we could get rid and push boat out for Brentford man.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: costa blanca baggie on September 19, 2020, 03:00:10 PM
You are missing the point. Correlation doesn’t imply causation, it’s far more nuanced than that. If you think our business last summer was unmitigated (which means absolute, couldn’t have been better) than I can’t help you.

It also wasn’t against the odds. We would have been one of the favourites. Half way through the season we were odds on.
Some splendid words there. Rarely seen on a footie site. However, it’s 'then', not 'than'. 😉
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 19, 2020, 03:01:35 PM
You are missing the point. Correlation doesn’t imply causation, it’s far more nuanced than that. If you think our business last summer was unmitigated (which means absolute, couldn’t have been better) than I can’t help you.

It also wasn’t against the odds. We would have been one of the favourites. Half way through the season we were odds on.

The issue I have is no club or technical director on this planet has ever had a perfect transfer window, so you've set a bar which is ludicrous. Our business last summer was a success, we rebuilt the team and got promoted. Of course we were odds on for promotion at the half-way stage, because the players the club signed had done so fantastically well. You can dress it up any way you like but you can't run from the fact that our transfer business last season was a success.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: paulosull on September 19, 2020, 03:14:27 PM
The issue I have is no club or technical director on this planet has ever had a perfect transfer window, so you've set a bar which is ludicrous. Our business last summer was a success, we rebuilt the team and got promoted. Of course we were odds on for promotion at the half-way stage, because the players the club signed had done so fantastically well. You can dress it up any way you like but you can't run from the fact that our transfer business last season was a success.
success would be stretching it a bit, never sorted our problem up top. with the major issue of our striker's being over the hill in Austin's case and pee poor in the case of Zohore. Granted we achieved our objective but a blind man and his dog could see we have nothing up top to worry prem defences.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 19, 2020, 03:21:43 PM
success would be stretching it a bit, never sorted our problem up top. with the major issue of our striker's being over the hill in Austin's case and pee poor in the case of Zohore. Granted we achieved our objective but a blind man and his dog could see we have nothing up top to worry prem defences.

The remit last summer wasn't to bring in strikers that could tear up the premiership. It was to build a team to challenge for promotion. It's unusual to have to rebuild half a side from scratch in one summer and even more unusual to then get promoted off the back of that. Ajayi, Sawyers, Furlong, Austin, Pereira, Diangana,  Robinson (loan), Krov (loan) & Grosicki were all good signings. Particularly under a limited budget. Zohore was a failure. That's 9/10 signings that all contributed to our promotion. To claim calling that a success "is a bit of stretch" is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 19, 2020, 03:23:13 PM
The remit last summer wasn't to bring in strikers that could tear up the premiership. It was to build a team to challenge for promotion. It's unusual to have to rebuild half a side from scratch in one summer and even more unusual to then get promoted off the back of that. Ajayi, Sawyers, Furlong, Austin, Pereira, Diangana,  Robinson (loan), Krov (loan) & Grosicki were all good signings. Particularly under a limited budget. Zohore was a failure. That's 9/10 signings that all contributed to our promotion. To claim calling that a success "is a bit of stretch" is ridiculous.

This is a particularly strange hill to die on.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 19, 2020, 03:28:12 PM
This is a particularly strange hill to die on.

The transfer business that rebuild the squad was key to our successful promotion - which was a fantastic achievement. It's churlish not to recognise that.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 19, 2020, 03:34:37 PM
The transfer business that rebuild the squad was key to our successful promotion - which was a fantastic achievement. It's churlish not to recognise that.

He didn’t even have a remit to get us promoted it was a two year plan, which makes some of the business EVEN WORSE.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: paulosull on September 19, 2020, 03:36:46 PM
The remit last summer wasn't to bring in strikers that could tear up the premiership. It was to build a team to challenge for promotion. It's unusual to have to rebuild half a side from scratch in one summer and even more unusual to then get promoted off the back of that. Ajayi, Sawyers, Furlong, Austin, Pereira, Diangana,  Robinson (loan), Krov (loan) & Grosicki were all good signings. Particularly under a limited budget. Zohore was a failure. That's 9/10 signings that all contributed to our promotion. To claim calling that a success "is a bit of stretch" is ridiculous.
remit last summer was to  bring in Striker's that would tear up chump surely?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 19, 2020, 03:37:39 PM
He didn’t even have a remit to get us promoted it was a two year plan, which makes some of the business EVEN WORSE.

Laughable. Promoted 12 months early and that makes the transfer business last summer worse. Ridiculous statement.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 19, 2020, 03:39:25 PM
remit last summer was to  bring in Striker's that would tear up chump surely?

We did that the season before and lost in the play-offs.

With our limited budget we have done well in the transfer market recently.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: paulosull on September 19, 2020, 04:09:47 PM
8 million for Zohore and 4 million for Austin let your argument down both panic buys by Dowling. And before Pereira, Diangana and Krov are mentioned all recruited by Slaven.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 19, 2020, 04:15:05 PM
Slaven is being ham-strung by Dowling. Slaven wanted a striker. Dowling goes for midfield and defence.
The manager can see what is needed, but office boy(s) are just using an abacus.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 19, 2020, 04:16:24 PM
Slaven is being ham-strung by Dowling. Slaven wanted a striker. Dowling goes for midfield and defence.
The manager can see what is needed, but office boy(s) are just using an abacus.

The biggest problem this season is the lack of money to spend on players.

Dowling would love a bigger budget to play with.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: paulosull on September 19, 2020, 04:41:37 PM
The biggest problem this season is the lack of money to spend on players.

Dowling would love a bigger budget to play with.
so he can pee it away on *****
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie96 on September 19, 2020, 06:27:45 PM
We’re so close to being competitive which is why the recruitment is so frustrating. With Ivanović and Gallagher coming in it should solve two big issues but we still need another centre mid and a striker. Krovinovic I assume will be one, the links to getafe and Bologna are weird as I doubt they can even afford the €6 million that we want to pay let alone the €10 million Benfica want. Grant then seems to be the first choice striker but the alternatives just seem to be bewildering. Surely there is a striker somewhere in Europe that is better that Andre gray and Troy Deeney?!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Evo_Baggies on September 19, 2020, 06:35:56 PM
8 million for Zohore and 4 million for Austin let your argument down both panic buys by Dowling. And before Pereira, Diangana and Krov are mentioned all recruited by Slaven.

I dont think you can call Charlie Austin a panic buy. 4 million quid for a striker proven in the championship seemed like a no brainer at the time.

Yes he didnt do as well as I thought he would but those ten goals he got, got us over the line. A lot of them were winners or equalisers that got us the points we needed
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: frazzle on September 19, 2020, 06:42:16 PM
so he can pee it away on *****

What’s that comment based upon?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on September 19, 2020, 06:51:34 PM
I can't see how this is Dowlings fault. Unfortunately we have had to spend money on signing last year's loan players. We clearly have a very limited budget which is not decided by Dowling. We spent 26m on 2 loan players. But that didn't even increase the head count. We needed several more players but Dowling is having to shop in an over inflated market with just a few coins. I would like us to push the boat out for Grant but we really need 2 more strikers. Its an impossible job for Dowling.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on September 19, 2020, 06:56:34 PM
I can't see how this is Dowlings fault. Unfortunately we have had to spend money on signing last year's loan players. We clearly have a very limited budget which is not decided by Dowling. We spent 26m on 2 loan players. But that didn't even increase the head count. We needed several more players but Dowling is having to shop in an over inflated market with just a few coins. I would like us to push the boat out for Grant but we really need 2 more strikers. Its an impossible job for Dowling.
Dowling's refusal to buy in the overseas market is hindering us ,lets him down IMO.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: BalisPen on September 19, 2020, 08:46:20 PM
We’re so close to being competitive which is why the recruitment is so frustrating. With Ivanović and Gallagher coming in it should solve two big issues but we still need another centre mid and a striker. Krovinovic I assume will be one, the links to getafe and Bologna are weird as I doubt they can even afford the €6 million that we want to pay let alone the €10 million Benfica want. Grant then seems to be the first choice striker but the alternatives just seem to be bewildering. Surely there is a striker somewhere in Europe that is better that Andre gray and Troy Deeney?!

That was exactly what I was thinking. Those clubs have virtually no income as no fans allowed in and less tv income. Imo rumours put out by benfica to pressure us.

There is no way if we paid £12m for gd and £8.5m for mp that he is worth £9m. Take the the £4-5m or goodbye Krov and if Bilic doesn't like goodbye to him to. We haven't the money to waste on bench warmers who showed up against a knackered Newcastle.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on September 19, 2020, 08:52:04 PM
Exactly what Dexy said. It isn't Dowling's fault we have no money, but we need him to make up for the financial gap by being savvier than the rest, but instead he has a very basic approach looking inly in the inflated English market. He has shown again this summer that he hinders rather than helps us. Capable as an English scout but nothing more. I don't think he will be the man to develop us back into an established prem side again, unless he has a road of damascus moment.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie96 on September 19, 2020, 08:58:26 PM
The owners need to back us, an extra 15 million keeps us up imo. If they don’t do it then they lose £50million next year alone, it is bonkers what we are doing.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Mo on September 19, 2020, 09:05:20 PM
No one has mentioned Ken yet what’s his input , what’s he upto ? We need leadership .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: FallOutBoy on September 20, 2020, 06:18:31 PM
I can't see how this is Dowlings fault. Unfortunately we have had to spend money on signing last year's loan players. We clearly have a very limited budget which is not decided by Dowling. We spent 26m on 2 loan players. But that didn't even increase the head count. We needed several more players but Dowling is having to shop in an over inflated market with just a few coins. I would like us to push the boat out for Grant but we really need 2 more strikers. Its an impossible job for Dowling.

We did not have to spend money signing last years loan players, except Pereira. The money for him came out of last years budget, so we can discount that.

We didn't have to sign Diangana or Robinson. In fact, the money we used for Diangana might have been used for two cheaper players who might contribute more over the season.

It is far from an impossible job, he is just making it look difficult by making obvious signings from the English leagues, which don't improve us that much.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 20, 2020, 06:21:33 PM
It is far from an impossible job, he is just making it look difficult by making obvious signings from the English leagues, which don't improve us that much.

Literally typed whilst we are in discussions with Rennes to sign Niang as reported by Alan Nixon today. Comical.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: FallOutBoy on September 20, 2020, 06:24:16 PM
The posts on here slagging Dowling off whilst the transfer window is still open are pathetic. Last summer was an unmitigated success which led to promotion. This summer the recruitment is still ongoing. The earliest time to judge is once the window has closed (arguably through once the players in have succeeded or failed months later). Albeit the pro's and con's of whoever we have signed will need to be weighed up against our budget - which media reports have put at a pittance. All of the posts above slagging of our recruitment mid transfer window are are beyond an embarrassment.

I'm sorry, but I can't leave this one alone. Last Summer was not an unmitigated success:

Zohore - poor signing
Ajayi - decent first season
Furlong - in and out the team, still potential
Sawyers - decent first season, looks lacking at this level for his position
Austin - obviously shot-it, which people on this forum called before the transfer went through
Al-Habsi - didn't play
Grosicki - decent player, hasn't had a run yet
Peltier - what's the point of this one again?
Krovinovic - Bilic signing, decent but didn't make a position his own
Diangana - good season, came through Bilic's Hammers contacts
Pereira - good season, again seems to have come from Bilic
Willock - waste of time
Robinson - good initially, poor after the restart

Just because we got promotion doesn't mean everything was fine.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: FallOutBoy on September 20, 2020, 06:25:53 PM
Literally typed whilst we are in discussions with Rennes to sign Niang as reported by Alan Nixon today. Comical.

How many players has he signed from the English leagues? How many of our foreign signings have come off Bilic or his contacts?

We're only looking abroad now because Grant / Gray / Deeney are proving too expensive for us.

We might not even be signing him, we might just be showing Huddersfield we have other options.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 20, 2020, 06:26:49 PM
Literally typed whilst we are in discussions with Rennes to sign Niang as reported by Alan Nixon today. Comical.

We know Niang from his Watford days. This is not an unknown from a foreign league.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 20, 2020, 06:31:25 PM
We know Niang from his Watford days. This is not an unknown from a foreign league.

So not only should we be trying not to sign players domestically we should also be avoiding them if they have ever played in the EPL.

Let’s demand an unknown from Kazakhstan.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 20, 2020, 06:35:36 PM
How many players has he signed from the English leagues? How many of our foreign signings have come off Bilic or his contacts?

We're only looking abroad now because Grant / Gray / Deeney are proving too expensive for us.

We might not even be signing him, we might just be showing Huddersfield we have other options.

I take that as a concession that you don’t actually know who we are scouting or which players are our number one targets.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: FallOutBoy on September 20, 2020, 06:36:40 PM
So not only should we be trying not to sign players domestically we should also be avoiding them if they have ever played in the EPL.

Let’s demand an unknown from Kazakhstan.

There is little value for money domestically, either in terms of wages or transfer fees.

If we can scout a better player abroad for a lower cost, then it behooves us to get the most return for our investment.

We were paying Austin £50k a week last season. We could probably have gone abroad and found a striker who would have scored more, and might even have been able to step-up to the Premier League, and be paying him less.

Good value is where you can find it, and we shouldn't be limiting ourselves either way.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 20, 2020, 06:36:45 PM
So not only should we be trying not to sign players domestically we should also be avoiding them if they have ever played in the EPL.

Let’s demand an unknown from Kazakhstan.

Very odd take away from what I said...
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 20, 2020, 06:40:25 PM
There is little value for money domestically, either in terms of wages or transfer fees.

If we can scout a better player abroad for a lower cost, then it behooves us to get the most return for our investment.

We were paying Austin £50k a week last season. We could probably have gone abroad and found a striker who would have scored more, and might even have been able to step-up to the Premier League, and be paying him less.

Good value is where you can find it, and we shouldn't be limiting ourselves either way.

Even Bielsa at Leeds for last two seasons couldn’t find anyone better than Bamford to lead their attack out of the championship. I don’t recall any strikers last season that were unknown ripping apart the championship. If only it were so easy.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: FallOutBoy on September 20, 2020, 06:41:31 PM
I take that as a concession that you don’t actually know who we are scouting or which players are our number one targets.

This is a bizarre assertion. Nobody can know unless they're in the player recruitment meetings.

What we do know is that Dowling favours signing players who are already based domestically. We know that in terms of who we've signed and who we've been linked with, over the period since he has been at the club.

If we had looked abroad more, we would probably have signed more foreign players.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: zippyandbungle on September 20, 2020, 06:42:19 PM
Even Bielsa at Leeds for last two seasons couldn’t find anyone better than Bamford to lead their attack out of the championship. I don’t recall any strikers last season that were unknown ripping apart the championship. If only it were so easy.
Bloody good point, even the B6 bin dippers with money to burn have gone to Brentford rather 5han the previous European shopping trips.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on September 20, 2020, 06:47:26 PM
I'm sorry, but I can't leave this one alone. Last Summer was not an unmitigated success:

Zohore - poor signing
Ajayi - decent first season
Furlong - in and out the team, still potential
Sawyers - decent first season, looks lacking at this level for his position
Austin - obviously shot-it, which people on this forum called before the transfer went through
Al-Habsi - didn't play
Grosicki - decent player, hasn't had a run yet
Peltier - what's the point of this one again?
Krovinovic - Bilic signing, decent but didn't make a position his own
Diangana - good season, came through Bilic's Hammers contacts
Pereira - good season, again seems to have come from Bilic
Willock - waste of time
Robinson - good initially, poor after the restart

Just because we got promotion doesn't mean everything was fine.

Well said. 👏🏻
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: BalisPen on September 20, 2020, 06:48:20 PM
Regarding Dolwing, I am undecided as to his efficacy.

He clearly sanctions great signings that should go up in value, but he counters that with absolute garbage like Zohore and Austin.

We will really see how he does next summer one the likes of Gibbs, Austin and Co and their wages are out the door.

If we go down this, it will hurt, but not as much as the financial disaster staying down would be.

Best case scenario we stay up and worse case we go down with very saleable players in mp and gd and maybe grant.

Getting out of the championship is always hard, but last season proved we could do it with a bad defence and attack and not winning in our last 4 games, so it should be possible again so if get stronger slowly by yo yoing, so be it .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Oldbury24 on September 21, 2020, 02:22:06 PM
If we had looked abroad more, we would probably have signed more foreign players.
[/quote]

Can you provide a recent example of a striker that has come into the PL as an "unknown" or been a bargain buy from a foreign league and been successful by scoring 10+ goals?  The only player i can think of in recent memory is Pukki and he had been around the block, including failure at Celtic.  Ajeti was the last name of that type we were linked with but he ended up at West Ham for £8m, warmed the bench for a year and ended up in Scotland at a £3m loss.

We hit the jackpot with Odenwingie but feel like he spoiled us.  It's a tough transition to the championship and then a massive step up to the PL so those deals tend to be the exception to the rule.   

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: FallOutBoy on September 21, 2020, 03:34:32 PM
If we had looked abroad more, we would probably have signed more foreign players.


Can you provide a recent example of a striker that has come into the PL as an "unknown" or been a bargain buy from a foreign league and been successful by scoring 10+ goals?  The only player i can think of in recent memory is Pukki and he had been around the block, including failure at Celtic.  Ajeti was the last name of that type we were linked with but he ended up at West Ham for £8m, warmed the bench for a year and ended up in Scotland at a £3m loss.

We hit the jackpot with Odenwingie but feel like he spoiled us.  It's a tough transition to the championship and then a massive step up to the PL so those deals tend to be the exception to the rule.

It's not about being unknown, as every player has some level of notoriety, especially thanks to the internet. It's about looking at who is available from those countries who could come in and do a job, something which Dowling, by and large, seems reluctant to do.

You look at the fact that big clubs have had to sell to balance the books over the last few years, Valencia and Porto being the most recent examples; there are players in those squads that we could sign that would improve us, for less money than we would pay for a domestic-based player of a similar level.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 21, 2020, 03:46:01 PM
It's not about being unknown, as every player has some level of notoriety, especially thanks to the internet. It's about looking at who is available from those countries who could come in and do a job, something which Dowling, by and large, seems reluctant to do.

You look at the fact that big clubs have had to sell to balance the books over the last few years, Valencia and Porto being the most recent examples; there are players in those squads that we could sign that would improve us, for less money than we would pay for a domestic-based player of a similar level.

Both of those clubs are part of the Mendes axes and Porto in particular has turned into a Wolves feeder club. Players from either that would improve us, would not want to play for West Brom and if they are even half decent Mendes will manage them and he only moves players around his carousel of clubs, including Wolves. Your example doesn’t hold any water, unfortunately.

I think it’s more of a credible argument to identify specific players from abroad that our rivals have signed who we could have afforded and attracted and would improve the team, but once you start looking at it with real world examples rather than a theory you can see just how difficult it is. As I said earlier, Bielsa with the biggest contact book in World football, backing from owners and an obsession for the game across the World relied on Patrick Bamford to lead his attack for two seasons.



Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Oldbury24 on September 21, 2020, 03:49:48 PM
It's not about being unknown, as every player has some level of notoriety, especially thanks to the internet. It's about looking at who is available from those countries who could come in and do a job, something which Dowling, by and large, seems reluctant to do.

You look at the fact that big clubs have had to sell to balance the books over the last few years, Valencia and Porto being the most recent examples; there are players in those squads that we could sign that would improve us, for less money than we would pay for a domestic-based player of a similar level.

Ok.....take out "unknown" from my question and lets just stick with bargain.  What is a bargain?  What is cheap?  In the current market it would still appear to be anything under or around the £10m mark - taking an example of Villa paying £8.5million for Watsamatta.     

So who do Valencia or Porto have that could come in and do a job for us (bear in mind the job is goal scoring in the PL or Championship) for less than £10m.  Or even as your suggesting less than we will be willing to pay for Grant, which i'm only guessing is probably about £12-15m up front again? At least with Grant you are buying guaranteed Championship goals and the genuine potential for PL goals. 



Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 21, 2020, 04:22:08 PM
Ok.....take out "unknown" from my question and lets just stick with bargain.  What is a bargain?  What is cheap?  In the current market it would still appear to be anything under or around the £10m mark - taking an example of Villa paying £8.5million for Watsamatta.     

So who do Valencia or Porto have that could come in and do a job for us (bear in mind the job is goal scoring in the PL or Championship) for less than £10m.  Or even as your suggesting less than we will be willing to pay for Grant, which i'm only guessing is probably about £12-15m up front again? At least with Grant you are buying guaranteed Championship goals and the genuine potential for PL goals.

To further demonstrate your point look at the colossal sums Villa wasted on players scouted from abroad last season.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: AlbionFan on September 21, 2020, 05:36:56 PM
Have been enjoying watching "All or Nothing: Tottenham Hotspur"

Here is a quote from Daniel Levy "Fans, general, just have no comprehension of just how hard it is to physically do a transfer"

That from a high profile Chairman and club with some financial clout
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on September 21, 2020, 05:40:50 PM
Have been enjoying watching "All or Nothing: Tottenham Hotspur"

Here is a quote from Daniel Levy "Fans, general, just have no comprehension of just how hard it is to physically do a transfer"

That from a high profile Chairman and club with some financial clout

Then got the deal with Inter pretty quick
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: AlbionFan on September 21, 2020, 05:54:03 PM
Then got the deal with Inter pretty quick

Inter got a quality player at a very good price, because the player, wanted to leave and would have left for nothing at the end of the season. Hardly, an example now is it?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: FallOutBoy on September 21, 2020, 05:58:22 PM
Both of those clubs are part of the Mendes axes and Porto in particular has turned into a Wolves feeder club. Players from either that would improve us, would not want to play for West Brom and if they are even half decent Mendes will manage them and he only moves players around his carousel of clubs, including Wolves. Your example doesn’t hold any water, unfortunately.

I think it’s more of a credible argument to identify specific players from abroad that our rivals have signed who we could have afforded and attracted and would improve the team, but once you start looking at it with real world examples rather than a theory you can see just how difficult it is. As I said earlier, Bielsa with the biggest contact book in World football, backing from owners and an obsession for the game across the World relied on Patrick Bamford to lead his attack for two seasons.

If you genuinely believe all of that, then it is pointless trying to continue this argument.

Of the last 30 players to leave Porto, either on loan or permanently, 2 went to Wolves. Only one of whom was a Mendes client.

Porto aren't going to refuse to sell anybody a player, so long as they get an acceptable bid. Even if they're a Mendes client.

They might not want to play for West Brom, but a year or two at West Brom can get them where they want to go. Just like a year or two at Wolves can.

This is the reality of the situation. But you keep complaining about how bent the Dingles am.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on September 21, 2020, 06:01:55 PM
Inter got a quality player at a very good price, because the player, wanted to leave and would have left for nothing at the end of the season. Hardly, an example now is it?


Technically it was exactly an example of a transfer but I'm being pedantic  ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: AlbionFan on September 21, 2020, 06:44:49 PM

Technically it was exactly an example of a transfer but I'm being pedantic  ;D

I know and so was I  :D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on September 21, 2020, 06:58:47 PM
If we had looked abroad more, we would probably have signed more foreign players.


Can you provide a recent example of a striker that has come into the PL as an "unknown" or been a bargain buy from a foreign league and been successful by scoring 10+ goals?  The only player i can think of in recent memory is Pukki and he had been around the block, including failure at Celtic.  Ajeti was the last name of that type we were linked with but he ended up at West Ham for £8m, warmed the bench for a year and ended up in Scotland at a £3m loss.

We hit the jackpot with Odenwingie but feel like he spoiled us.  It's a tough transition to the championship and then a massive step up to the PL so those deals tend to be the exception to the rule.

Jimanez
Mane
Richarlison
Son
Arnautovic
Milivojevic
Mahrez
Ighalo
Ayew
Pelle
Benteke
Bony
Cisse
Remy

Going back to the 2014 season, all of the above signed from abroad and have gone on to score double figures (some for one season, others for multiple).

It's not a guarantee of course, but it does give you a wider range of options, rather than being s*** or bust on one expensive English option.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 21, 2020, 07:02:50 PM
Jimanez
Mane
Richarlison
Son
Arnautovic
Milivojevic
Mahrez
Ighalo
Ayew
Pelle
Benteke
Bony
Cisse
Remy

Going back to the 2014 season, all of the above signed from abroad and have gone on to score double figures (some for one season, others for multiple).

It's not a guarantee of course, but it does give you a wider range of options, rather than being s*** or bust on one expensive English option.

Yes but would any of them been available to sign for the 20th club in the premiership with a minuscule budget? How many of those would have signed for the club favour for relegation and accepted a relegation release clause? How many of those players attracted transfers fees in excess of what we have to spend?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 21, 2020, 07:19:19 PM
If you genuinely believe all of that, then it is pointless trying to continue this argument.

Of the last 30 players to leave Porto, either on loan or permanently, 2 went to Wolves. Only one of whom was a Mendes client.

Porto aren't going to refuse to sell anybody a player, so long as they get an acceptable bid. Even if they're a Mendes client.

They might not want to play for West Brom, but a year or two at West Brom can get them where they want to go. Just like a year or two at Wolves can.

This is the reality of the situation. But you keep complaining about how bent the Dingles am.

You call it an argument, I call it a debate. Name me a single Porto player available this summer that we could have signed that would have wanted to play for us that would be better than who we have brought in. You'll be kicking dust trying to find a workable example. Ironically that is against the backdrop of Porto struggling, I watch a fair bit of the Premier Liga.

Now I'm going to go off on a slightly detailed tangent about Mendes and his relationship with Porto as you raised it, which interplays with the earlier poster referring to Daniel Levy moaning that fans have no idea how complex transfers are.

What your post fails to appreciate is that it is common place in Portugal for players to have third party ownership with Mendes. Jota was one of them. Mendes has more power than the club. Porto don't get much choice in the matter when Mendes owns shares in the players. What happens is club X (one of Mendes carousel of clubs, we are not on the list) bids for the player. Porto then can accept or reject, BUT if they reject they have to buy out the Agent's share of the players rights, they can't afford to do so, so they have no actual choice but to accept if Mendes wants the deal to go through and he engineers all of these deals, all related with each other, moving players around 6/8 clubs in Europe. Typically you have Mendes representing the selling club, the player and the buying club. Just for good measure to make things even more dodgy the owners of wolves own a stake in Mendes agency, so when they buy a Porto teenager for £35m who has played two games (who even does that) Mendes gets a ridiculous 25% cut of the transfer fee, being £7m, that goes back into his agency, and the wolves owners get a slice back of their own cash as they part own the agency.

The interesting thing about the Portugese league is that the top clubs by law have to publish the transfer details,  that's why we know that Mendes got a 25% cut of the Porto £35m teenager deal from a couple of weeks back (rather than the standard 10% commission) and co-owned Jota before moving him onto Wolves and then Liverpool.

Wolves have 13 Portuguese players, all managed by Mendes. His power is unrivalled, Jose Mourhino works for the bloke, when Mourinho managed Madrid Mendes had his own office in the training ground. Similar process is underway at Spurs now. It's one of the key reasons Levy took Mourinho on, because of his relationship with Mendes.

You can read about it yourself here: https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/football-leaks-wolverhampton-conflict-of-interest-a-1239829.html

Then in this environment you have Downing representing an unfashionable club with a meagre budget.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Oldbury24 on September 21, 2020, 07:22:24 PM
Jimanez
Mane
Richarlison
Son
Arnautovic
Milivojevic
Mahrez
Ighalo
Ayew
Pelle
Benteke
Bony
Cisse
Remy

Going back to the 2014 season, all of the above signed from abroad and have gone on to score double figures (some for one season, others for multiple).

It's not a guarantee of course, but it does give you a wider range of options, rather than being s*** or bust on one expensive English option.

A decent list. Jiminex was closer to £40m and Son over £20m but there are a number there that did come in at that £10-12m some have gone onto bigger and better and some dropped off a cliff.   However i guess with our  limited budget we need as much certainty as possible.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 21, 2020, 07:25:13 PM
Did a single one of those players sign for a newly promoted club that was the favourite for relegation? That alone kills the list, which isn't particularly big when you consider it takes in not one summer but several transfer windows.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: AlbionFan on September 21, 2020, 07:26:06 PM
It is oh so easy to criticise, and fans have ever right to do so.

But I would suggest that those fans, being hyper critical,  should take a deep breath and try to analyse and consider the restrictions and constraints that Dowling is having to work under. He has probably made some good signings and not so good signings, but what head of recruitment hasn’t?

Those being hyper critical, if you know for definite, and not just criticising out of frustration, that he is deliberately being obtrusive, then please share that with me, so that I also can be hyper critical with good reason.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on September 21, 2020, 07:30:24 PM
Did a single one of those players sign for a newly promoted club that was the favourite for relegation? That alone kills the list, which isn't particularly big when you consider it takes in not one summer but several transfer windows.

Lots of them signed for lower table clubs. Players aren’t always that bothered about league position, not when we are often offering double what clubs are offering in Europe. If you can’t get a move to one of the top 5 sides in Italy, Spain or Germany, you are usually more likely to earn big money at the bottom English club than a mid table one elsewhere.

As for the list being small, if you looked at the list of strikers signed from the lower leagues in the same period, it would either be the same, or even less.

The point is we are losing out on a lot of the potential market by not looking there. We might get a good striker from the domestic market, but we give ourselves a better option if we look both home and abroad, rather than just in one.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 21, 2020, 07:39:17 PM
Lots of them signed for lower table clubs. Players aren’t always that bothered about league position, not when we are often offering double what clubs are offering in Europe. If you can’t get a move to one of the top 5 sides in Italy, Spain or Germany, you are usually more likely to earn big money at the bottom English club than a mid table one elsewhere.

As for the list being small, if you looked at the list of strikers signed from the lower leagues in the same period, it would either be the same, or even less.

The point is we are losing out on a lot of the potential market by not looking there. We might get a good striker from the domestic market, but we give ourselves a better option if we look both home and abroad, rather than just in one.

It is no more than conjecture of a few on here that we are not looking at players who are based in other leagues, yet you make that point as if it is a fact. It has been reported over the weekend and today that we are in talks with Rennes to sign Niang. We haven't suddenly decided he's a target because he was a flop at Watford three years ago in a short loan spell, we have obviously watched his progress in ligue 1 and decided he has the quality and development to now damages teams in the premiership. I remember him at Milan and not being too impressed. So I was shocked pleasantly by just how good he looked in his goals reel for the last two years at Rennes and his recent stats.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on September 21, 2020, 07:50:03 PM
It is no more than conjecture of a few on here that we are not looking at players who are based in other leagues, yet you make that point as if it is a fact. It has been reported over the weekend and today that we are in talks with Rennes to sign Niang. We haven't suddenly decided he's a target because he was a flop at Watford three years ago in a short loan spell, we have obviously watched his progress in ligue 1 and decided he has the quality and development to now damages teams in the premiership. I remember him at Milan and not being too impressed. So I was shocked pleasantly by just how good he looked in his goals reel for the last two years at Rennes and his recent stats.

Hmmmmmmm you call it conjecture, but the evidence suggests otherwise.

As jacko and a few others have said, Niang is known to Dowling from his Watford days, it is even how the local press have reported it. If you look at our list up to this point, those that are publicly known are Grant, Gray, Deeney and Samatha, 4 domestic based players, plus Niang from abroad who was with Dowling at Watford.

If there is evidence that Dowling has a varied international scouting network then ok, but in nearly 3 seasons here, there is no evidence up to this point that he does. The only evidence we have is that Dowling signs players from the domestic market, which ties in with his previous track record at Watford where he was brought in as a domestic market expert to compliment Watford’s owner’s self professed understanding of foreign markets.

If I said to you that Burnley don’t look in the foreign markets, you wouldn’t call that conjecture would you?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 21, 2020, 08:03:12 PM
Hmmmmmmm you call it conjecture, but the evidence suggests otherwise.

As jacko and a few others have said, Niang is known to Dowling from his Watford days, it is even how the local press have reported it. If you look at our list up to this point, those that are publicly known are Grant, Gray, Deeney and Samatha, 4 domestic based players, plus Niang from abroad who was with Dowling at Watford.

If there is evidence that Dowling has a varied international scouting network then ok, but in nearly 3 seasons here, there is no evidence up to this point that he does. The only evidence we have is that Dowling signs players from the domestic market, which ties in with his previous track record at Watford where he was brought in as a domestic market expert to compliment Watford’s owner’s self professed understanding of foreign markets.

If I said to you that Burnley don’t look in the foreign markets, you wouldn’t call that conjecture would you?

There is no point discussing the transfer window from last season in the championship, which was an entirely different remit, unless you want to acknowledge what a good job everyone involved did. Forest signed players galore from the continent, how did they get on compared to us?

Moaning that Dowling knows about Niang from his Watford days is mind-numbing. He played 16 times for Watford and has 209 games elsewhere. He left Watford over three years ago. Do you seriously not think we have been more interested in his form at Rennes for the past two seasons?

The owners of Watford also owned Udinese and Granada, so a large number of players were recycled between all three clubs, you don't seem aware of that yet are trying to judge Dowling business this summer on the shenanigans at Watford.

I've said a few times that moaning about Dowling this summer with the transfer window open and our business unfinished is a classic case of fans moaning for the sake of it. He has a limited budget, lots of players to bring in and a club with limited appeal to many of our first choice targets. Once the window is closed and the players have bedded in we can judge how successful a window it has been.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: BalisPen on September 21, 2020, 09:12:00 PM
Have been enjoying watching "All or Nothing: Tottenham Hotspur"

Here is a quote from Daniel Levy "Fans, general, just have no comprehension of just how hard it is to physically do a transfer"

That from a high profile Chairman and club with some financial clout

I have berm watching it too and the narcissistic levy is one talk. He ruined the upward trajectory of the best player we've produced for years with one derisory bid after another.

Transfers are hard. A buyer asks seller how much is so and so through an agent or whoever and then they should decided if they want to pay the price or walk away.

Levy uses the London press to release info to unsettle a player to save a few quid, but when it comes to him selling he wants top dollar.

I so wanted Ericksson to go on free when it happened but stupid inter came in in Jan and stupidly paid £20m and then hardly played him.

Transfers can be complicated when dealing with 3rd party ownership, but it doesn't really effect our clubs.

If levy makes a transfer complicated it is because he he trying to screw the other club.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on September 21, 2020, 09:16:47 PM
i hadn't realised Eriksson wasn't getting played (astonishing),. Loan ?

(its a joke !)
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 21, 2020, 09:18:07 PM
I have berm watching it too and the narcissistic levy is one talk. He ruined the upward trajectory of the best player we've produced for years with one derisory bid after another.

You really think Levy was responsible for Berahino wasting his talent? His own team mates at Albion and Stoke thought he was a tool of the highest order. Morrison punched him. The Stoke players wouldn't talk to him. He spent his time inhaling hippy crack laughing gas. Compare that to Zaha who has begged to let go from Palace for two years and still turns it on every week.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: AlbionFan on September 21, 2020, 09:22:48 PM
I have berm watching it too and the narcissistic levy is one talk. He ruined the upward trajectory of the best player we've produced for years with one derisory bid after another.

Transfers are hard. A buyer asks seller how much is so and so through an agent or whoever and then they should decided if they want to pay the price or walk away.

Levy uses the London press to release info to unsettle a player to save a few quid, but when it comes to him selling he wants top dollar.

I so wanted Ericksson to go on free when it happened but stupid inter came in in Jan and stupidly paid £20m and then hardly played him.

Transfers can be complicated when dealing with 3rd party ownership, but it doesn't really effect our clubs.

If levy makes a transfer complicated it is because he he trying to screw the other club.

He does the best for his club as does every CEO and I don’t blame them. And for clarification, it was £17m (€20m)

And no, Berahino ruined his own trajectory
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: BalisPen on September 21, 2020, 09:25:14 PM
You really think Levy was responsible for Berahino wasting his talent? His own team mates at Albion and Stoke thought he was a tool of the highest order. Morrison punched him. The Stoke players wouldn't talk to him. He spent his time inhaling hippy crack laughing gas. Compare that to Zaha who has begged to let go from Palace for two years and still turns it on every week.

Go and look when those things happened, during the time he sat on the England bench or after the spurs bid?

Morrison hitting a younger player for not taking the ball into the corner was disgraceful act of bullying and the fact nothing happened to mozza said everything of the p iss poor management we had at the time, as in any other line of work it would have been instant dismissal.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: BalisPen on September 21, 2020, 09:33:08 PM
He does the best for his club as does every CEO and I don’t blame them. And for clarification, it was £17m (€20m)

And no, Berahino ruined his own trajectory

Send him a letter telling him how much you admire him and ask for his autograph as I am sure he will love that. You could possibly put in your letter to him how you really liked the way the he wanted to furlough his staff until a public outcry  lead to a u turn and how he has now borrowed £200m in public money to fund the signings of bale and Co, instead getting the money from his Co shareholder Joe Lewis.

Btw what was £17m, I didn't mention any figure?

If you are referring to the spurs bid it was rumoured to be £10m rising to £20m in the reports if he manned a rocket ship to the moon.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on September 21, 2020, 09:57:30 PM
There is no point discussing the transfer window from last season in the championship, which was an entirely different remit, unless you want to acknowledge what a good job everyone involved did. Forest signed players galore from the continent, how did they get on compared to us?

Moaning that Dowling knows about Niang from his Watford days is mind-numbing. He played 16 times for Watford and has 209 games elsewhere. He left Watford over three years ago. Do you seriously not think we have been more interested in his form at Rennes for the past two seasons?

The owners of Watford also owned Udinese and Granada, so a large number of players were recycled between all three clubs, you don't seem aware of that yet are trying to judge Dowling business this summer on the shenanigans at Watford.

I've said a few times that moaning about Dowling this summer with the transfer window open and our business unfinished is a classic case of fans moaning for the sake of it. He has a limited budget, lots of players to bring in and a club with limited appeal to many of our first choice targets. Once the window is closed and the players have bedded in we can judge how successful a window it has been.

"Moaning that Dowling knows Niang from his Watford days".


You said I and others were just making up the fact that Dowling doesn't look abroad, then when I presented the case for why I and others think that way, you seem to have just changed the context of what we were speaking about.

It's up to you your view on Dowling, maybe he is good enough and my view that he is too limited for what we need will be proven wrong in the long run, but if you are going to debate then I think you need to debate what's being said rather than twisting what is said

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: AlbionFan on September 21, 2020, 10:06:51 PM
Send him a letter telling him how much you admire him and ask for his autograph as I am sure he will love that. You could possibly put in your letter to him how you really liked the way the he wanted to furlough his staff until a public outcry  lead to a u turn and how he has now borrowed £200m in public money to fund the signings of bale and Co, instead getting the money from his Co shareholder Joe Lewis.

Btw what was £17m, I didn't mention any figure?

If you are referring to the spurs bid it was rumoured to be £10m rising to £20m in the reports if he manned a rocket ship to the moon.

I suggest you read your own post and “Erickssson” is actually spelt Eriksen or where you referring to another player with a similar name that went to Inter? Which would have been an absolute coincidence.

And what did this Albion player with a “trajectory“ do to enhance his own career and overcome disappointment like many other players have had to and then get on with their job?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SmethDan on September 21, 2020, 10:14:13 PM
Go and look when those things happened, during the time he sat on the England bench or after the spurs bid?

Morrison hitting a younger player for not taking the ball into the corner was disgraceful act of bullying and the fact nothing happened to mozza said everything of the p iss poor management we had at the time, as in any other line of work it would have been instant dismissal.

With the greatest of respect, Morrison didn't punch him because he didn't take the ball into the corner. He punched him because the snotty arrogant piece of fecal matter didn't give a toss about why his fellow professionals were vexed, and also went on to call Morrison a fool, despite his actions potentially costing our place in the Prem' and his teammates money via relegation clauses. It wasn't bullying, it was shop floor justice. If anything Saido got off lightly. Personally speaking if I were in the dressing room I'd have been tempted to rip his head off.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 21, 2020, 10:19:20 PM
With the greatest of respect, Morrison didn't punch him because he didn't take the ball into the corner. He punched him because the snotty arrogant piece of fecal matter didn't give a toss about why his fellow professionals were vexed, and also went on to call Morrison a fool, despite his actions potentially costing our place in the Prem' and his teammates money via relegation clauses. It wasn't bullying, it was shop floor justice. If anything Saido got off lightly. Personally speaking if I were in the dressing room I'd have been tempted to rip his head off.

Amazing this even needed explaining, god knows why anyone on this forum wants to defend Berahino for throwing his career away.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: BalisPen on September 21, 2020, 11:46:58 PM
Amazing this even needed explaining, god knows why anyone on this forum wants to defend Berahino for throwing his career away.

Didn't defend berahino at any stage, but as he himself as stated the spurs "bid" kicked it all off for player rated as a better prospect than Kane at the time.

Whatever, the hearsay of what was said by him to Morrison I won't ever condone any player, especially a senior one hitting an idiot like bambino in any circumstances.

Scream and shout as much as you want at each other but when you start to gang up on younger players, as has been hinted by odemwingie too, maybe that's why we cannot retain the traitors like Ferguson and Co.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: BalisPen on September 22, 2020, 12:02:35 AM
I suggest you read your own post and “Erickssson” is actually spelt Eriksen or where you referring to another player with a similar name that went to Inter? Which would have been an absolute coincidence.

And what did this Albion player with a “trajectory“ do to enhance his own career and overcome disappointment like many other players have had to and then get on with their job?

Thanks for the spelling lesson I really appreciate it. Your extensive spelling prowess and use of Google to spell check will make that letter to levy very riveting reading I am sure.

Bambino is a joke for what he has done on and off the field and I have written of my disdain of him many times, but it does not change the fact that he was a home grown player who was on the England bench until he was unsettled by levy.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Evo_Baggies on September 22, 2020, 09:52:59 AM
Thanks for the spelling lesson I really appreciate it. Your extensive spelling prowess and use of Google to spell check will make that letter to levy very riveting reading I am sure.

Bambino is a joke for what he has done on and off the field and I have written of my disdain of him many times, but it does not change the fact that he was a home grown player who was on the England bench until he was unsettled by levy.


Berahino to bambino is an amazing autocorrect ha
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on September 22, 2020, 12:03:02 PM
re:- Berahino
Spurs 1st bid, 18 Aug 2015

Speeding M6 100mph plus, 25 nov 2014
Laughing gas, 19 Apr 2015
Brentford send back, 04 apr 2012

The lad was a problem before levy intervened, Fact !
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: BalisPen on September 22, 2020, 04:55:19 PM
re:- Berahino
Spurs 1st bid, 18 Aug 2015

Speeding M6 100mph plus, 25 nov 2014
Laughing gas, 19 Apr 2015
Brentford send back, 04 apr 2012

The lad was a problem before levy intervened, Fact !

Speeding and laughing gas in a teenager, must be the first time a teenager did that.

Funny how you don't mention his stint at Northampton who said he was great for them.

Also, for clarity sake re the comemmt about bambino, it wasn't an auto correct, it was what I called him ( Saido bambino which is sad baby to be precise) at the time he spat his dummy out and said he'd never play for peace again.

Don't agree with what he did at the time or now, but I cannot say he was the best finisher I have seen in my time going to the Albion for his age. I was very proud when he got his England call up and gutted when RH didn't bring him on.

Not only did he waste his talent, but we lost tens of millions in what he could have been and it was reported even after his hissy fit Newcastle bid £23m but Pulis didn't want lose him, despite his antics.

I maintain his downfall was triggered by levy's penny pinching and nothing is going to convince me otherwise.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: The Black Pearl on September 22, 2020, 05:10:24 PM
Speeding and laughing gas in a teenager, must be the first time a teenager did that.

Funny how you don't mention his stint at Northampton who said he was great for them.

Also, for clarity sake re the comemmt about bambino, it wasn't an auto correct, it was what I called him ( Saido bambino which is sad baby to be precise) at the time he spat his dummy out and said he'd never play for peace again.

Don't agree with what he did at the time or now, but I cannot say he was the best finisher I have seen in my time going to the Albion for his age. I was very proud when he got his England call up and gutted when RH didn't bring him on.

Not only did he waste his talent, but we lost tens of millions in what he could have been and it was reported even after his hissy fit Newcastle bid £23m but Pulis didn't want lose him, despite his antics.

I maintain his downfall was triggered by levy's penny pinching and nothing is going to convince me otherwise.

Was it Brentford on loan where he fell out with the manager ( Uve Rosler)and loan was ended.
His problems started the moment he sniffed money, never mind the laughing gas!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: BalisPen on September 22, 2020, 05:18:52 PM
Was it Brentford on loan where he fell out with the manager ( Uve Rosler)and loan was ended.
His problems started the moment he sniffed money, never mind the laughing gas!

If he was so bad, England don't come calling.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: The Black Pearl on September 22, 2020, 05:31:22 PM
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-striker-in-hot-water-181612
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 22, 2020, 05:55:45 PM
If he was so bad, England don't come calling.

Geoff Thomas, Jake Livermore and Michael Ricketts, are at the head of a long queue who want a word...
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on September 22, 2020, 07:07:04 PM
I maintain his downfall was triggered by levy's penny pinching and nothing is going to convince me otherwise.

Fair enough, everyone is entitled to an opinion but I think that's delusional. We're talking about a player that wasted the best part of a decade despite being given numerous chances by different clubs and coaches. Berahino has to accept personal responsibility for his own career, or lack of.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on September 22, 2020, 07:58:16 PM
Dowling in this thread now please guys
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on October 25, 2020, 06:23:25 PM
Article in today's Sunday Times:

After an hour of interviewing Luke Dowling he has had ten missed calls and countless messages, and as we keep talking, notification alerts keep chiming on his phone. Ding. Ding. Ding. Like a metronome, set to the breakneck tempo of the football world.

Welcome to the life of a Premier League sporting director. The transfer window may have finally shut on October 5 but the work continues, and as strategist for newly promoted West Bromwich Albion there is plenty that Dowling needs to affect. Training ground, travel, academy, nutrition, communication with fans, support for manager Slaven Bilic — he wants to be progressing it all.

“Something I learnt at Watford is keep making small improvements. Let the players see something different: an office change, a little upgrade in the gym, new furniture in the canteen. Make slight differences because we don’t want them to just be comfortable. We want them to know we’re always looking to make things better,” he says.

At Watford, whom he joined in 2014, Dowling was one of Europe’s youngest sporting directors and helped to plot promotion, then three years of survival in the top flight. Aged 42, he took his present post in 2018 after a brief stint at Nottingham Forest and hopes his previous experience will help West Brom to stay up — despite having the Premier League’s smallest budget. “I have to overachieve, Slaven has to overachieve and the players have to overachieve,” he says. “If nobody ever overachieved, every league table would just be what the bookies predicted.”
The key is recruitment. West Brom have taken a different route to Leeds United, who spent £96 million after being promoted, or Aston Villa, who invested £143 million after going up in 2019. West Brom’s net spend is about £27 million and their record signing remains Salomón Rondón, bought for £15.3 million in 2015.

On the penultimate day of the window, Dowling captured Karlan Grant, 23, from Huddersfield Town for £14.85 million but structured the deal so the fee is spread across the six years of his contract. An up-and-coming striker for £2.47 million a season — that kind of prudence will look ingenious if they avoid the drop.

A youth full back at Tottenham Hotspur, Dowling had two years at Reading before stints in non-League with Kingstonian, Hampton & Richmond Borough and Walton Casuals, whom he managed. From there, he became a scout at AFC Wimbledon and Crystal Palace, then head of recruitment at Portsmouth and Blackburn Rovers.
His knowledge of the different levels and people’s potential to rise contributed to the shift in thinking he brought about at West Brom at the end of 2018-19, after they lost in the Championship play-off semi-finals.

“We were relegated the previous season with an experienced team: Ben Foster, Craig Dawson, Jonny Evans, Chris Brunt, Gareth McAuley, Gareth Barry . . . these were older players who helped give this club eight years on the spin in the Premier League but ultimately they got relegated.

“Darren Moore [then the manager] wanted to keep the majority together, which we did. We collected a few loans, had a go but fell short again. That was when we reached a point where I wanted to appoint a manager, reduce the age of the squad and get in some younger, hungry players.”

Bilic got the dugout gig in June 2019, his charisma and experience of managing Croatia, Besiktas and West Ham United convincing Dowling he was the man. Poster boy for the new breed of signings was Semi Ajayi, who had been relegated to League One with Rotherham. Ajayi had hidden pedigree — three games on the bench at Arsenal in the Premier League — and his career had faltered after making a wrong move, to Cardiff City. Dowling and the scouting team he had appointed saw Ajayi’s physique, determination and ability on the ball, underneath the rawness.

The 26-year-old arrived for £1.5 million. Darnell Furlong (£1.5 million from Queens Park Rangers) and Romaine Sawyers (£2.9 million from Brentford) were similar buys. All three played big roles in the promotion and have not looked out of place this season.

For a club careful with their budget under the ownership of Chinese investor Lai Guochuan, loan deals present a valuable see-before-buy opportunity. They also allowed West Brom to sell themselves to rising talent — such as Grady Diangana, who signed after a successful loan spell despite being in demand elsewhere. Callum Robinson and Matheus Pereira are others who have turned loans into permanent moves.

“With players, too many people look at what they can’t do whereas I want my scouts to look at what they’ve got. If their weaknesses are things we can improve on, we’ve got half a chance. Sometimes it’s about putting people in a better environment, alongside better players,” Dowling says.

“Semi has shown that. We believe we have another in Cédric Kipré, who we got from Wigan for £800,000. We’ll make this boy into a player. Put Kipré in a squad with better footballers, give him better nutrition, put him in hotels before games, get him to Newcastle on a flight instead of a five-hour road journey — it might just get that extra 3 per cent from him, and you don’t know what that 3 per cent brings.”

“I sometimes feel there’s a bit of snobbery,” Dowling, who himself commutes every day from Berkshire, says. “We’ve signed players from Rotherham and Wigan. If they were from Everton Under-23s and Manchester United-23s, they’d be more appealing to many clubs, I believe, but when you play for Rotherham or Wigan you develop character. And when you scout them in that environment, playing in front of 8,000, 9,000 — not big crowds — you see who can motivate themselves.

“These are West Brom signings. West Brom have never been a club to spend £30 million on a player. This is a hard-working area where families go without a holiday so Dad can afford his season ticket. It’s finding players who reflect that passion. Pereira [a Brazilian from Sporting Lisbon] might not be from here but his attitude reflects the area.”

There was no family holiday this year either for Dowling, his wife Patricia and 12-year-old Liberty. “Would I like a holiday? Do I need one? Probably. But I’ll be fine,” Dowling says. “It’s still the best job. I never wake up on a Monday morning and think, ‘Oh, work . . .’ ”
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WBArgo on October 25, 2020, 06:42:46 PM
Interesting interview on Dowling. I think it's obviously based around praise rather than a hit-piece and he's modelled as a kind of Ashworth 2.0. Undoubtedly he's had some success with his signings and he's helped lower our debt.

What I found odd though is that he's talking about giving Kipre the extra 3% by travelling less, better nutrition etc. Then in the next paragraph it says Dowling commutes from Berkshire daily. Surely the same applies to him? Imagine the time he could sink into his job without such a long commute.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: frazzle on October 25, 2020, 06:47:08 PM
He does the best for his club as does every CEO and I don’t blame them. And for clarification, it was £17m (€20m)

And no, Berahino ruined his own trajectory

Totally agree. Levy didnt do much wrong as he was acting in the best interests of his club. Berahino blew his career - no-one else to blame.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on October 25, 2020, 09:10:29 PM
I'd have probably liked a bit more analysis in the article really, it just felt like a snippet of an interview rather than something that gave any real insight. A quick piece with no real digging.

Couple of things.

Dowling's role at Watford feels a little overstated. Their success was built on signing players through their Pozzo family network with Udinese and Grenada. When Dowling was bought in, Watford said in the release that it was to give them a domestic angle to their recruitment to supplement their foreign business which they had well covered and while he must have done something right to get 3 years there, they didn't sign many domestic players in his time there and he eventually left to go down a division, hinting he wanted a greater influence somewhere.

He says our scouts don't fall into the trap of looking at what a player hasn't got and instead look at their positives. Personally, i'd prefer a bit more of a balanced view than that as you should be looking to rule players out as well as in. It does explain how we ended up with Zohore ("the lad doesn't score and jumps like a frightened turtle, but look how big, strong and fast he is, he has all the mechanics"). It's the sort of scouting Billy Beane and Moneyball rallied against.

As for the snobbish line, i've said on here a few times that you get the impression that Dowling's one of those blokes from the lower reaches of English football who will have that view. The "just because he doesn't have a fancy, foreign name" outlook. I guess you are a product of your up bringing so to speak and that's been his footballing education, but that did confirm something i've long suspected.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: MarkW on October 26, 2020, 11:04:36 AM
Interesting that there's a piece on The Athletic about Dan Ashworth by Steve Madeley at the moment. Not had chance to read through it in its entirety but will post a summary when I get chance, as it will be interesting to see if there are any parallels to Dowling
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WBArgo on October 26, 2020, 02:19:39 PM
I'd have probably liked a bit more analysis in the article really, it just felt like a snippet of an interview rather than something that gave any real insight. A quick piece with no real digging.

Couple of things.

Dowling's role at Watford feels a little overstated. Their success was built on signing players through their Pozzo family network with Udinese and Grenada. When Dowling was bought in, Watford said in the release that it was to give them a domestic angle to their recruitment to supplement their foreign business which they had well covered and while he must have done something right to get 3 years there, they didn't sign many domestic players in his time there and he eventually left to go down a division, hinting he wanted a greater influence somewhere.

He says our scouts don't fall into the trap of looking at what a player hasn't got and instead look at their positives. Personally, i'd prefer a bit more of a balanced view than that as you should be looking to rule players out as well as in. It does explain how we ended up with Zohore ("the lad doesn't score and jumps like a frightened turtle, but look how big, strong and fast he is, he has all the mechanics"). It's the sort of scouting Billy Beane and Moneyball rallied against.

As for the snobbish line, i've said on here a few times that you get the impression that Dowling's one of those blokes from the lower reaches of English football who will have that view. The "just because he doesn't have a fancy, foreign name" outlook. I guess you are a product of your up bringing so to speak and that's been his footballing education, but that did confirm something i've long suspected.

I agree with the Watford bit. After their promotion their fans loved the Pozzo scouting system which was almost entirely foreign-based, alongside foreign managers and staff. The article then glosses over his time at Forest where most of their fans were against him.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on October 26, 2020, 02:27:59 PM
I agree with the Watford bit. After their promotion their fans loved the Pozzo scouting system which was almost entirely foreign-based, alongside foreign managers and staff. The article then glosses over his time at Forest where most of their fans were against him.

Is Mr Dowling touting himself about for another job ?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: paulosull on October 26, 2020, 02:28:57 PM
Let's a novice coach in big Dave dictate transfer policy says it all for me, bloke hasn't got a plan other than reducing wage bill for club.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on October 26, 2020, 02:34:57 PM
Let's a novice coach in big Dave dictate transfer policy says it all for me, bloke hasn't got a plan other than reducing wage bill for club.

erm, gets slagged for giving Darren autonomy, but gets pilloried for selling Hegazi without Bilic knowing. All conjecture but if true, he cannot win really.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 26, 2020, 03:11:25 PM
Is Mr Dowling touting himself about for another job ?

We can but hope.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: BalisPen on October 26, 2020, 03:18:53 PM
Well Dowling, you said we should never be afraid to sell a player and we should be confident in replacing him.

Well you knew Hegazi was a potential outbound player yet you only used one of your prem loans.

Great confident work. Let's hope Kipre fulfils that confidence of yours.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 26, 2020, 03:22:50 PM
Well Dowling, you said we should never be afraid to sell a player and we should be confident in replacing him.

Well you knew Hegazi was a potential outbound player yet you only used one of your prem loans.

Great confident work. Let's hope Kipre fulfils that confidence of yours.

I'd have thought Ivanovic was the replacement rather than Kipre.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 26, 2020, 03:25:30 PM
I'd have thought Ivanovic was the replacement rather than Kipre.

Ivanovic was surely an addition?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on October 26, 2020, 03:49:57 PM
Ivanovic was surely an addition?
I fail to see a distinction between Ivanovic and Kipres recruitment,
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 26, 2020, 03:52:04 PM
I fail to see a distinction between Ivanovic and Kipres recruitment,

Nearly got me again  ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: smethwickw on October 26, 2020, 04:22:02 PM
I’m amazed that we’ve only used one of our Prem loans. You could argue we are saving it for Jan but surely that window is even more difficult to work in. Assuming Grosicki goes we are 2 down on a 25 man squad.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on October 26, 2020, 07:50:11 PM
Nearly got me again  ;D

Just press send, you know you want to. go on, do it!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: zippyandbungle on October 26, 2020, 07:56:42 PM
I’m amazed that we’ve only used one of our Prem loans. You could argue we are saving it for Jan but surely that window is even more difficult to work in. Assuming Grosicki goes we are 2 down on a 25 man squad.

I’d rather have the right 23 than the wrong 25
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on October 26, 2020, 10:36:03 PM
To me, he just another bean counter.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: liverbaggie on October 26, 2020, 10:41:07 PM
He's balancing the books isn't he.
When we stay up we'll hopefully not be in debt and then have plenty of money to improve the team.
Makes sense to me as an old business man.
Might not be very exciting but we are building a young squad ,I'm reasonably happy with him.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on October 26, 2020, 11:36:18 PM
Just another version of Jeremy Peace, but with no money interest. Just a bean counter.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on December 20, 2020, 09:05:58 PM
Have we ever had a worse premier league squad in our history? If this bloke, the man responsible for this monstrosity, doesn't get sacked in the summer then something has gone wrong.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Tony Goddens Gloves on December 20, 2020, 09:07:54 PM
I’ve said this. Why sack Bilic when it should have been the owner and recruitment department that should have gone
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on December 20, 2020, 09:16:55 PM
Have we ever had a worse premier league squad in our history? If this bloke, the man responsible for this monstrosity, doesn't get sacked in the summer then something has gone wrong.

The quality of the squad is where it should be for the tiny budget the technical director and manager have been given.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: frazzle on December 20, 2020, 09:20:56 PM
Have we ever had a worse premier league squad in our history? If this bloke, the man responsible for this monstrosity, doesn't get sacked in the summer then something has gone wrong.

He can’t spend money he doesn’t have. To be fair while Bilic spotted some good players he also signed players that just aren’t good enough.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on December 20, 2020, 09:23:08 PM
We say he had no money, but how much did he spend on Grant and Diangana? How much did he spend on Zohore and Austin?

He wouldn't know a goalscorer if they booted him into the top corner
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: royhan on December 20, 2020, 09:23:22 PM
What other Premier Club club would pay over £32 million for two very average Championship players in Diangana and Grant. Recruitment has been dire and that is why we are where we are now. There’s no hope now - none whatsoever. Christmas has become even more depressing
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggies_24 on December 20, 2020, 09:28:22 PM
Grant looks a really really awful bit of business, I know he’s in a bad team but his touch, hold up play etc. are all league 2 standard.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on December 20, 2020, 09:30:26 PM
Grant looks a really really awful bit of business, I know he’s in a bad team but his touch, hold up play etc. are all league 2 standard.

Bilic pushed and WAITED so hard and long for him. Doesnt make sense. Huddersfield fans said hes good but not as a lone striker/target man type which is what we bought him as. Mental.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on December 20, 2020, 09:54:19 PM
Grant looks a really really awful bit of business, I know he’s in a bad team but his touch, hold up play etc. are all league 2 standard.
Bilic hung his hat on Grant by all accounts.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on December 20, 2020, 10:02:33 PM
Bilic hung his hat on Grant by all accounts.

We literally played games without a decent striker waiting for him, Bilic said he would sort it out. I won't blame Grant though he's been bought for a purpose he's not fit for.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: frazzle on December 20, 2020, 10:04:00 PM
We say he had no money, but how much did he spend on Grant and Diangana? How much did he spend on Zohore and Austin?

He wouldn't know a goalscorer if they booted him into the top corner

My point is that it’s not necessarily Dowling to blame.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on December 20, 2020, 10:08:16 PM
Some signings have done better than expected and some have done worse than expected. That's not exactly ground breaking news. Overall the ability of the squad is a more than fair value to the amount we have paid for players. We are 20th in the premiership for budgets and 19th in the league, so arguably out performing ourselves. The reality is this group has never been close to being good enough to stay up, as should have been expected. Pay peanuts, get monkeys. The last manager told that truth to the board and they declined his advice.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on December 20, 2020, 10:09:53 PM
Definitely have sympathy with Bilic in that respect. The board/execs have done us a treat. Not even in terms of buying new players but giving ridiculous deals to past-it players that is keeping us financial prisoners.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Tony Goddens Gloves on December 29, 2020, 06:51:07 PM
This guy is the reason why we are in this mess. He needs to go now along with the board and the owner. We are an absolute laughing stock
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on December 29, 2020, 07:05:28 PM
This guy is the reason why we are in this mess. He needs to go now along with the board and the owner. We are an absolute laughing stock

Being fair he's only the puppet for the board and our non existent owner.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: lewisant on December 29, 2020, 07:24:09 PM
If we fail to put up a fight then he has to go.

Somebody mentioned Allardyce mentioned may need 6 weeks to get an opinion. It won't be 6 weeks any more.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: brummyroader on December 29, 2020, 08:44:39 PM
Genuinely don’t get the hate towards LD. Think he’s done a solid job every transfer window even without mentioning the little wriggle room he has from above spending the £££.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 29, 2020, 08:49:15 PM
Genuinely don’t get the hate towards LD. Think he’s done a solid job every transfer window even without mentioning the little wriggle room he has from above spending the £££.

Most reports suggest he blew the budget on Diangana when Bilić wasn't keen, further rumours suggest he's signed numerous players in the last 3 years the manager actively and explicitly didn't want. This seasons names include Button and Kipre.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on December 29, 2020, 09:25:42 PM
Perhaps a more fundamental question is, who recommended SA as the manager. I doubt that  Lai had ever heard of him.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on December 29, 2020, 09:29:17 PM
Perhaps a more fundamental question is, who recommended SA as the manager. I doubt that  Lai had ever heard of him.

Lai probably still has no idea. He likely doesnt know who is in charge.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on December 29, 2020, 09:29:41 PM
Most reports suggest he blew the budget on Diangana when Bilić wasn't keen, further rumours suggest he's signed numerous players in the last 3 years the manager actively and explicitly didn't want. This seasons names include Button and Kipre.

From last season I would suggest Zohore, Austin, Furlong, Grosicki and Peltier
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on December 29, 2020, 09:30:29 PM
FLIPPING HELL I FORGOT WE HAVE ZOHORE TO RETURN!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on December 29, 2020, 10:03:58 PM
This man? We are doomed. Clueless
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on December 29, 2020, 10:46:34 PM
Loads on SM over the past few days on how our recruitment was so much better with Dan Ashworth as Sporting Director.

So I looked at Brighton's performance.

They are 5 points better off than us in the table & over the last 5 games have got 1 more point than us.

Not sure the finger should be pointing at Dowling, he can only spend what he's given.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on December 29, 2020, 10:48:28 PM
Loads on SM over the past few days on how our recruitment was so much better with Dan Ashworth as Sporting Director.

So I looked at Brighton's performance.

They are 5 points better off than us in the table & over the last 5 games have got 1 more point than us.

Not sure the finger should be pointing at Dowling, he can only spend what he's given.

Dont think anyone blames Dowling for the budget it's more his signing of players managers dont want, the signing of players that we wont play but might make a million quid on and the inadequate European/global scouting network. It's not great.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on December 29, 2020, 10:48:39 PM
Loads on SM over the past few days on how our recruitment was so much better with Dan Ashworth as Sporting Director.

So I looked at Brighton's performance.

They are 5 points better off than us in the table & over the last 5 games have got 1 more point than us.

Not sure the finger should be pointing at Dowling, he can only spend what he's given.

Exactly. Dowlings the problem now. Last time we were in the premier league it was Hammond. Our absent and silent owner is the problem.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on December 29, 2020, 10:49:23 PM
Exactly. Dowlings the problem now. Last time we were in the premier league it was Hammond. Our absent and silent owner is the problem.

Lai is 1000% the source of all problems. It all begins with him.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on December 29, 2020, 10:50:26 PM
Dont think anyone blames Dowling for the budget it's more his signing of players managers dont want, the signing of players that we wont play but might make a million quid on and the inadequate European/global scouting network. It's not great.

Slaven wanted Grant not Dowling
Remember Slav spent 20 odd million on Ayew at West Ham who flopped
I think  Slav is as guilty as Dowling at signing flops
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on December 29, 2020, 10:51:24 PM
Slaven wanted Grant not Dowling
Remember Slav spent 20 odd million on Ayew at West Ham who flopped
I think  Slav is as guilty as Dowling at signing flops

YEs i did say this elsewhere tonight. The club and Bilic are equally to blame
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on December 29, 2020, 10:52:55 PM
Loads on SM over the past few days on how our recruitment was so much better with Dan Ashworth as Sporting Director.

So I looked at Brighton's performance.

They are 5 points better off than us in the table & over the last 5 games have got 1 more point than us.

Not sure the finger should be pointing at Dowling, he can only spend what he's given.

Yes and as excellent as some of Ashworths signings were what about Craig Beattie, Tininho, Zuverlon, Meite, Martis etc
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on December 29, 2020, 11:36:45 PM
- club Appoints Darren Moore

- Sacks Darren Moore and places us on a Merry go round of manager interviews with no clear plan in place

- appoints a glorified PE teacher and we cock up promotion in the play offs against Villa.

- appoints Bilic who he immediately begins to fall out with

- overseen the loss of several of our academy coaches to local rivals due to his methods

- Gives Hal Robson Kanu a contract extension

- Signs Kenneth Zohore for £7milion (who Bilic didn’t rate)

- Signs Charlie Austin (who bilic didn’t rate)

- signs button who Bilic did not want

- Signs Kipre who Bilic does not rate or want.

- Sold Hegazi beyond his managers back

- sent one of our academy stars to his best mate despite it not aiding his development

- Spent £15m on Diangana despite Bilic reservations

- waited until the final knocking of the window to sign the forward Bilic craved.

- sacks Slaven Bilic

- appoints Sam Allardyce



There are probably others I’ve missed but it’s an a glowing endorsement of his competency.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on December 29, 2020, 11:42:11 PM
Was he was responsible for the appointment of Darren Moore?

Thought Dowling joined in Sep 2018 and DM was already in charge then. Not sure who appointed Darren Moore? Awful choice anyway.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on December 29, 2020, 11:43:03 PM
Anyway you look at it we've trashed our academy system and staff so this bloke can do his thing. Sadly his thing is rubbish.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on December 29, 2020, 11:46:30 PM
Was he was responsible for the appointment of Darren Moore?

Thought Dowling joined in Sep 2018 and DM was already in charge then. Not sure who appointed Darren Moore? Awful choice anyway.

No. He was appointed by Jenkins. I’ve amended the post to give it some greater context
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on December 29, 2020, 11:49:29 PM
Yep of course thanks. I was thinking of Garlick.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on December 29, 2020, 11:50:30 PM
Yep of course thanks. I was thinking of Garlick.

He was long gone by then. Hammond and Terraneo were after Garlick.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on December 29, 2020, 11:56:16 PM
He was long gone by then. Hammond and Terraneo were after Garlick.

Hammond. Good grief. He was awful too. Totally forgot.him. I pray Lai leaves asap. Can't stand his garbage choices.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on December 30, 2020, 09:02:25 PM
Genuinely don’t get the hate towards LD. Think he’s done a solid job every transfer window even without mentioning the little wriggle room he has from above spending the £££.

He's done a pretty ordinary job at every window he has overseen, which is the problem. For us to stay in the premier league without the advantage of a sugar daddy, london money , a big fan base or a Mendes style arrangement, we need to be at the top of our game with an imaginative sporting director and scouting network. With Dowling, we have none of that. He is a championship director, nothing more.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on December 30, 2020, 09:03:48 PM
Loads on SM over the past few days on how our recruitment was so much better with Dan Ashworth as Sporting Director.

So I looked at Brighton's performance.

They are 5 points better off than us in the table & over the last 5 games have got 1 more point than us.

Not sure the finger should be pointing at Dowling, he can only spend what he's given.

Brighton are only 5 points off us, but they are dominating most games they play and just can't seem to score.

I think with a managerial change you might see them get mid table. Lets see what Ashworth does in the next month.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on December 30, 2020, 09:08:12 PM
Brighton are only 5 points off us, but they are dominating most games they play and just can't seem to score.

I think with a managerial change you might see them get mid table. Lets see what Ashworth does in the next month.

I don’t think they need a managerial change, I think Potter is quite close to cracking it. If Brighton had a Danny Ings I could easily see them up near Southampton.

If they do sack Potter we should be straight on to him saying if we go down, he’s the man we want.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on December 30, 2020, 09:27:30 PM
I don’t think they need a managerial change, I think Potter is quite close to cracking it. If Brighton had a Danny Ings I could easily see them up near Southampton.

If they do sack Potter we should be straight on to him saying if we go down, he’s the man we want.

Running the risk of going off topic, i'm still not sure on Potter. In one sense Brighton are getting a lot right, but then again, is the lack of goals a flaw in how Potter sets up?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 30, 2020, 09:29:00 PM
Running the risk of going off topic, i'm still not sure on Potter. In one sense Brighton are getting a lot right, but then again, is the lack of goals a flaw in how Potter sets up?

What's their xG?  ;)
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on December 30, 2020, 09:52:36 PM
What's their xG?  ;)

I know it’s tongue in cheek,  but i looked anyway.

The XG stats say they should be around 6th/7th and have 11 points less than they should. The are by far the most under-rewarded side this season.

Conversely, we have more points than we should have  :-X
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Standaman on December 30, 2020, 09:54:08 PM
What's their xG?  ;)

Brighton's xG performance is closer to a top 6 team than a relegation threatened one. Ours on the other hand resembles a block of concrete in a swimming contest.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 30, 2020, 09:55:45 PM
I know it’s tongue in cheek,  but i looked anyway.

The XG stats say they should be around 6th/7th and have 11 points less than they should. The are by far the most under-rewarded side this season.

Conversely, we have more points than we should have  :-X

So a player issue as opposed to system/manager? If we remotely place any stock in xG of course.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on December 30, 2020, 10:10:27 PM
So a player issue as opposed to system/manager? If we remotely place any stock in xG of course.

Seems that way to me.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 30, 2020, 10:12:19 PM
Seems that way to me.

Thought so, despite the money they've spent their forward line looks very 'budget' to me.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: MarkW on December 30, 2020, 10:19:31 PM
So a player issue as opposed to system/manager? If we remotely place any stock in xG of course.

Liverpool do   ;)
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 30, 2020, 10:24:42 PM
Liverpool do   ;)

It's a valuable metric imo but not when used in isolation. My point was designed to show that Potter is a good manager and his players finishing is what is letting them down after Baggies post.

Anyway back on topic, Dowling is pony and probably thinks xG is a model of Jaguar car.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on December 30, 2020, 11:08:03 PM
Dowling should appoint himself to the discard the first available opportunity
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WorcsWBA on December 30, 2020, 11:44:16 PM
My point was designed to show that Potter is a good manager and his players finishing is what is letting them down after Baggies post.

Anyway back on topic, Dowling is pony and probably thinks xG is a model of Jaguar car.
I agree with all of this - hang out the bunting!  ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 30, 2020, 11:51:54 PM
I agree with all of this - hang out the bunting!  ;D

Just when you thought 2020 couldn't get any stranger!!  ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on December 31, 2020, 12:29:27 AM
It's a valuable metric imo but not when used in isolation. My point was designed to show that Potter is a good manager and his players finishing is what is letting them down after Baggies post.

Anyway back on topic, Dowling is pony and probably thinks xG is a model of Jaguar car.

I’m genuinely not sure. Those who watch them regularly say the issue is that they just don’t shoot (no idea if that is correct or not). In Maupay as well, they have a player who didn’t seem to have an issue before and who managed double figures last season. They are just an odd side who dominate games but something isn’t clicking.

Maybe it is just the need for the right striker. Up to Ashworth to put that right.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: OhBilics on December 31, 2020, 01:25:16 PM
(xG) Ours on the other hand resembles a block of concrete in a swimming contest.
I'm sort of surprised it's that good.


Potter is a good manager
Well, yes. His showing in Sweden was pretty amazing. We really should have brought him home in 2018 but didn't, I presume because DM had had that purple patch at the back end of the previous season.

Edited to say I just read this on wikipedia:
Quote
Henrik Larsson commented on Potter's pattern of play, stating he "played all different kinds of systems, starting off a match one way, and then halfway through they started playing a different system, and then they ended up with a third system. And all the players knew exactly what they were doing."
That last sentence...
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on January 09, 2021, 08:13:49 PM
Must be a man under massive pressure for several reasons now.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on January 09, 2021, 08:15:20 PM
Must be a man under massive pressure for several reasons now.

Amazed he's still in a job. No one man can get everything right but this guy?? Failure after failure. LOst our academy staff due to him too. I can't say it feels worth it at the moment.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggies_24 on January 09, 2021, 08:26:58 PM
He shouldn’t be trusted to re-build the team his recruitment is rubbish 70% of the time & clearly Allardyce was his doing. In saying that I have absolutely no faith that Lai / Ken will make the right appointment if Dowling does get the boot, Terrano goes to show Lai hasn’t got a clue how to run a football club.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on January 09, 2021, 08:32:43 PM
Amazed he's still in a job. No one man can get everything right but this guy?? Failure after failure. LOst our academy staff due to him too. I can't say it feels worth it at the moment.
Think he did well with Ajayi  , Furlong and Sawyers at that level . Grosiki should have played more too .
Hard to know exactly what went down with Slav but I wouldn't be spending big money on Ajeti either .
You get the feeling he won't get much say on transfers with Allardyce.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on January 09, 2021, 08:37:18 PM
Think he did well with Ajayi  , Furlong and Sawyers at that level . Grosiki should have played more too .
Hard to know exactly what went down with Slav but I wouldn't be spending big money on Ajeti either .
You get the feeling he won't get much say on transfers with Allardyce.

Thing is those 4 were known, decent Championship players. They were just addding to the squad and at a total of AROUND 7m it was hard for him to go wrong. He didn't unearth a hidden gem for me.

I also think he will be taking a backseat to Sam and rightly so.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on January 09, 2021, 09:22:34 PM
Must be a man under massive pressure for several reasons now.

I really hope so. I doubt Lai and the other clowns would find anybody better, but i'm happy for us to roll the dice.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: paulosull on January 10, 2021, 12:27:51 AM
The signing of Zohore should have got this bloke the sack
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on January 10, 2021, 12:30:10 AM
The signing of Zohore should have got this bloke the sack

14 goals in the championship for Cardiff. 3 more than Austin  ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on January 10, 2021, 01:41:44 PM
14 goals in the championship for Cardiff. 3 more than Austin  ;D
3 less than Grant's 17 for Huddersfield.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on January 10, 2021, 02:52:09 PM
Anybody know what Forest and Watford fans thought of Dowling?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on January 10, 2021, 02:59:56 PM
Wasn’t at Forest long enough. Watford fans generally liked him but his role was effectively a glorified head domestic scout. When you look back at his record, they didn’t sign many of his suggestions as most players came from their Grenada/Udinese network.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on January 10, 2021, 03:07:13 PM
Wasn’t at Forest long enough. Watford fans generally liked him but his role was effectively a glorified head domestic scout. When you look back at his record, they didn’t sign many of his suggestions as most players came from their Grenada/Udinese network.

Cheers
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie38 on January 10, 2021, 03:53:05 PM
Anybody know what Forest and Watford fans thought of Dowling?

Forest were within days of sacking him and couldn't believe their luck when we came in for him.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on January 10, 2021, 03:55:14 PM
Did a single one of those players sign for a newly promoted club that was the favourite for relegation? That alone kills the list, which isn't particularly big when you consider it takes in not one summer but several transfer windows.
Maybe Mahrez
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on January 10, 2021, 04:31:24 PM
Forest were within days of sacking him and couldn't believe their luck when we came in for him.

Has that been printed somewhere or speculation from forest fans?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: GREGMT on January 14, 2021, 01:59:12 PM
Had over 2 weeks since the Leeds debacle to get players incoming.

If Allardyce thought everything was rosy post Liverpool, he had a nasty sharp sharp shock v Leeds and Arsenal days later reinforced it.

To not have players signed in time for Molineux, is shocking in my view.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Tony Goddens Gloves on January 26, 2021, 09:17:43 PM
Go now...please !!!!!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on January 26, 2021, 09:43:26 PM
Another one who wants outing , I fully expect nobody to sign before the window shuts .
No clear plan , no structure , no hope .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on January 26, 2021, 09:43:50 PM
The one thing to hang on to is that with every poor result for Allardyce, the owners (whoever they are) will hopefully lose faith in this very ordinary, bog basic, economy brand DoF.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on January 26, 2021, 09:47:17 PM
Another one who wants outing , I fully expect nobody to sign before the window shuts .
No clear plan , no structure , no hope .

Thing is he even said he's got 2 lists prepared one for the PL and on a reduced budget for the EFL. If he couldn't afford the PL list go to the EfL one and go long term. Hangs himself.

Way out of his depth on a level second only to Lai
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Ross on January 26, 2021, 09:51:26 PM
Just look at the team today

Only 2 of the 20 man squad are non-domestic and both were signed by Bilic rather than us.

Our scouting is of league 1 standard at best. This guy is a joke on every level - and to think we had Ashworth
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on January 26, 2021, 09:53:38 PM
Dowling? Just say... WHO? A total nonentity.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on January 26, 2021, 09:59:23 PM
If this idiot has anything about him he'll be demanding more funds from the owners right now , he hasn't and he won't.
Next week or so is going to be very painful for Albion fans while Dowling sits there , hugely out of his depth.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on January 26, 2021, 10:00:36 PM
Just a useless employee.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on January 26, 2021, 10:04:37 PM
Happy to collect his big salary every month knowing the owner won't change anything. Destroyed the scary staff. Brought no scouting system of any note I can see. A meatsack
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on January 26, 2021, 10:25:50 PM
Amd to think we all thought it couldn't get worse than Hammond  ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 26, 2021, 10:26:42 PM
Amd to think we all thought it couldn't get worse than Hammond  ;D

He set a low bar, and Dowling proceeded to bang his head on it.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on January 26, 2021, 10:27:52 PM
A bloke who has his own self importance first.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on January 26, 2021, 10:32:44 PM
He set a low bar, and Dowling proceeded to bang his head on it.

 ;D  ;D

PUt his head through it as well i think. Sunday league would perplex this bloke.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: darbolina on January 26, 2021, 10:32:54 PM
Awful DoF. What is he doing here still?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on January 26, 2021, 10:33:19 PM
Awful DoF. What is he doing here still?

Lais got no interest in replacing him.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on January 26, 2021, 10:35:37 PM
Under his watch we still have Gibbs , Livermore and HRK on very decent contracts . Oh add Matt Phillips to that list too , let that sink in .
Now add Zohore .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on January 26, 2021, 10:37:28 PM
Under his watch we still have Gibbs , Livermore and HRK on very decent contracts . Oh add Matt Phillips to that list too , let that sink in .
Now add Zohore .

Dont forget Austin. We were extrmely lucky his favourite club wanted him back to save us some of his wages.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on January 26, 2021, 10:37:39 PM
A bloke with no ideas
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 26, 2021, 10:37:54 PM
He should have gone following the sacking of Darren Moore.

We need to be honest with ourselves - we’re not signing anyone.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on January 26, 2021, 10:38:46 PM
Dont forget Austin. We were extrmely lucky his favourite club wanted him back to save us some of his wages.
Add hegazi out on loan to your list please
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: paulosull on January 26, 2021, 10:40:05 PM
A bloke with no ideas
this club seems to attract its fair share, he needs to go
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on January 26, 2021, 10:40:13 PM
Add hegazi out on loan to your list please

Yes a masterstroke. Our only PL proven lump at the back. Get rid of him! What a strategy.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on January 26, 2021, 10:41:25 PM
ReA bloke with no ideas and definitely isn't a businessman.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggies_24 on January 26, 2021, 10:45:57 PM
He should be out on his ear this team is heading for historic levels in terms of goals conceeded he shouldn’t survive I certainly wouldn’t trust him to rebuild this team. The club needs a complete change at the top starting with the owner, board & this bloke. 
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 26, 2021, 10:46:17 PM
Add hegazi out on loan to your list please

This maybe the poorest decision of the lot when you see our current defensive performances..
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on January 26, 2021, 10:49:30 PM
This maybe the poorest decision of the lot when you see our current defensive performances..

Exactly. What was the point of getting rid of Hegazi if the money wasnt going to be spent elsewhere
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on January 26, 2021, 10:50:04 PM
Exactly. What was the point of getting rid of Hegazi if the money wasnt going to be spent elsewhere

Save money for Lai.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 26, 2021, 10:50:53 PM
This maybe the poorest decision of the lot when you see our current defensive performances..

If only the manager had made this obviously best centre back at the club a fixture in his side.

He stupidly hardly played him and Dowling couldn't resist making the saving.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on January 26, 2021, 10:55:40 PM
If only the manager had made this obviously best centre back at the club a fixture in his side.

He stupidly hardly played him and Dowling couldn't resist making the saving.

To be fair to Dolwing we got good money in for a very average and unreliable player.  I recall Hegazi being introduced into the team last season which coincided with a drop off in form and culminated for him in an atrocious display at Huddersfield before he was dropped. All a bit academic now though. Notice we looked better tonight with Bartley, silly decision to start with our most experienced centre back on the bench.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 26, 2021, 10:56:24 PM
If only the manager had made this obviously best centre back at the club a fixture in his side.

He stupidly hardly played him and Dowling couldn't resist making the saving.

I agree with you on that too.

Shame both parties turned our best centre back into a political  football.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on January 26, 2021, 10:57:53 PM
This season is the perfect representation of what happens when a manager and board do not and cannot get on any level for such a period of time. It must never be allowed to happen again
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on January 26, 2021, 11:10:26 PM
You have to say that any potential players watching that debacle this evening, would hardly be attracted to signing up. Unless they were some special type of mercenary with no shame.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on January 26, 2021, 11:16:11 PM
You have to say that any potential players watching that debacle this evening, would hardly be attracted to signing up. Unless they were some special type of mercenary with no shame.

Wonder what Snoddy is thinking
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on January 26, 2021, 11:40:52 PM
This season is the perfect representation of what happens when a manager and board do not and cannot get on any level for such a period of time. It must never be allowed to happen again

We now have a manager who gets on with the board and look how well things are going! Whilst it's important for the manager and board to be on the same page to the extent that Bilic was annoyed with the lack of investment he was correct, and the board was wrong and secondly regardless of that relationship it doesn't make the players we have smarter, quicker or stronger. Gibbs hasn't improved his defending now Allardyce is more cordial with the board than his predecessor. If the board aren't prepared to invest at this level then they need to be more realistic and accept that relegation is likely. I don't blame Dowling either, as he doesn't set the budget.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on January 26, 2021, 11:48:27 PM
We now have a manager who gets on with the board and look how well things are going! Whilst it's important for the manager and board to be on the same page to the extent that Bilic was annoyed with the lack of investment he was correct, and the board was wrong and secondly regardless of that relationship it doesn't make the players we have smarter, quicker or stronger. Gibbs hasn't improved his defending now Allardyce is more cordial with the board than his predecessor. If the board aren't prepared to invest at this level then they need to be more realistic and accept that relegation is likely. I don't blame Dowling either, as he doesn't set the budget.

Thats a daft comparison mate because Bilic was given the money (not the money we wanted him to have admittedly) and chose to invest that into a squad that was already broken when we needed fresh faces.  Allardyce has been provided with 1 free transfer and possibly upto 2 loans who are not going to be his first choice loans either.

I'm sure Sam will be livid at the boards lack of action just as we are. I genuinely thought they would have 4 players in on loan by now. Settled in ready for the real run in which starts against Fulham but they are useless. Just useless.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on January 26, 2021, 11:56:49 PM
Thats a daft comparison mate because Bilic was given the money (not the money we wanted him to have admittedly) and chose to invest that into a squad that was already broken when we needed fresh faces.  Allardyce has been provided with 1 free transfer and possibly upto 2 loans who are not going to be his first choice loans either.

I'm sure Sam will be livid at the boards lack of action just as we are. I genuinely thought they would have 4 players in on loan by now. Settled in ready for the real run in which starts against Fulham but they are useless. Just useless.

As you acknowledge Bilic wasn't "given the money", certainly not enough to get the squad up the required level and Bilic didn't want to spend most of his meagre budget on Dianganna. Our budget for this season hasn't changed, it is the same now as it was in the summer and it has never been close to being enough; to expect either manager or the technical director to work a miracle.  I can't particularly criticise the output of the coaching staff or technical director as it is what I would expect given we are punching far below our competitors.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on January 27, 2021, 12:19:18 AM
I think Bilic could have used what limited funds he had wiser is what im getting at i suppose. YEs the board signed Kipre and Button but they only cost £2m combined. I know Bilic only wanted Diangana on loan so thats another 12m so the board used up 14m. Krov has cost us around 2m in fees and wages, Ivanovich around 2m in wages and then 12m+wages or whatever to sign Grant ( who i think will be ok used correctly) to use incorrectly! So thats 16m gone.  It's just crazy.

I know it sounds bonkers ,and yes very harsh, but based purely on their lack of relationship/communication i would have paid him off in the summer after promotion because we were broken by the time we arrived in the PL regardless of any transfers. When he came out with that interview after having his budget slashed it was game over 10000000000000%

Next season we will have a LOT of money by EFL standards but i have no faith in Dowling at all.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on January 27, 2021, 12:37:53 AM
I think Bilic could have used what limited funds he had wiser is what im getting at i suppose. YEs the board signed Kipre and Button but they only cost £2m combined. I know Bilic only wanted Diangana on loan so thats another 12m so the board used up 14m. Krov has cost us around 2m in fees and wages, Ivanovich around 2m in wages and then 12m+wages or whatever to sign Grant ( who i think will be ok used correctly) to use incorrectly! So thats 16m gone.  It's just crazy.

I know it sounds bonkers ,and yes very harsh, but based purely on their lack of relationship/communication i would have paid him off in the summer after promotion because we were broken by the time we arrived in the PL regardless of any transfers. When he came out with that interview after having his budget slashed it was game over 10000000000000%

Next season we will have a LOT of money by EFL standards but i have no faith in Dowling at all.

A statement that can be levelled at every manger who has ever managed. Some signings work and some do not. Bilic record in the transfer market was better than most.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on January 27, 2021, 12:41:07 AM
A statement that can be levelled at every manger who has ever managed. Some signings work and some do not. Bilic record in the transfer market was better than most.

That's fair and true. Why persist with what was broken though? If we maintained our excellent results from the 2st half the season I could see why. The 2nd half of the season was mediocre. The rot was already setting in. We needed fresh faces not the same old.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on January 27, 2021, 09:40:51 AM
was it dowling who infamously said we wouldn't do a Norwich in terms of expenditure, we would be more akin to sheff Utd
well that was a lie, I believe he had lied to Bilic and more recently lied to Allardyce.
he sold (loaned) Hegazi behind Bilics back and brought in players without Bilics rubber stamp (Kipre for 1)

I choose to believe the above is true and that is unacceptable, he needs to go, now !  i do believe he will go anyway at (or before) the end of the season as lai will be looking for someone to blame for screwing up the sale.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Mister AT on January 27, 2021, 09:44:23 AM
Heard a couple whispers at the start of the week that he’d ballsed up a couple of deals and the hierarchy were rather annoyed with him. Looks like he needs to pull his finger out in the next week or he might well be out of a job.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SmethDan on January 27, 2021, 10:02:43 AM
was it dowling who infamously said we wouldn't do a Norwich in terms of expenditure, we would be more akin to sheff Utd
well that was a lie........

In fairness that was before the budget was pruned back even further. I'd say it's more of a Lai than a lie.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on January 27, 2021, 10:12:59 AM
Heard a couple whispers at the start of the week that he’d ballsed up a couple of deals and the hierarchy were rather annoyed with him. Looks like he needs to pull his finger out in the next week or he might well be out of a job.


Oooh interesting. Can what went wrong be said on here or alluded too?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: tambag on January 30, 2021, 05:16:38 PM
Why did our Director of football think a defence that struggled in the championship did not need new blood in the EPL.
He needs sacking for that decision alone.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on January 30, 2021, 05:17:23 PM
Why did our Director of football think a defence that struggled in the championship did not need new blood in the EPL.
He needs sacking for that decision alone.
he brought in two defenders, just saying...
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 30, 2021, 05:17:30 PM
Why did our Director of football think a defence that struggled in the championship did not need new blood in the EPL.
He needs sacking for that decision alone.

Ask Bilić
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on January 30, 2021, 05:31:58 PM
Swopped Hegazi for Ivanovich and bought Kipre on the off chance we might make 1 million quid out of it down the line. Abysmal.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on January 30, 2021, 05:34:50 PM
Swopped Hegazi for Ivanovich and bought Kipre on the off chance we might make 1 million quid out of it down the line. Abysmal.

To be fair we can blame slav for Ivanovic
Dowling hands are clean on that one
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on January 30, 2021, 05:38:11 PM
Why did our Director of football think a defence that struggled in the championship did not need new blood in the EPL.
He needs sacking for that decision alone.

The DOF would have loved to have spent another £40m and brought in better players, it's the boardroom above him that decided on the budget that wasn't enough to get the job done.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 30, 2021, 05:40:24 PM
The DOF would have loved to have spent another £40m and brought in better players, it's the boardroom above him that decided on the budget that wasn't enough to get the job done.

And the manager on which positions to prioritise. No surprise we're in for an actual striker a defensive midfielder and a right back is it?

Dowling dropped the ball with Hegazi but I don't particularly blame him for the rest of the summer business.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on January 30, 2021, 05:43:45 PM
To be fair we can blame slav for Ivanovic
Dowling hands are clean on that one


Form what i recall Bilic gave it the ok as long as he got his Ivanovich in.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: GREGMT on January 30, 2021, 05:47:09 PM
I'll say it again, Allardyce has had 30 days to get a CM better than Sawyers and Livermore and a striker better than Grant and HRK.

It really should be easy to better those players.  So what have we been hanging around for.  Loftus Cheek absolutely bossed Livermore and Grant quite frankly looks awful.

It's impossible to get 100% accuracy to transfers, even Sir Alex Ferguson made some bad errors.

Bilic is in the past, my concern is Allardyce has messed around picking Sawyers & Livermore when he should've had the awareness to replace them at the earliest opportunity.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on January 30, 2021, 05:49:33 PM
I'll say it again, Allardyce has had 30 days to get a CM better than Sawyers and Livermore and a striker better than Grant and HRK.

It really should be easy to better those players.  So what have we been hanging around for.  Loftus Cheek absolutely bossed Livermore and Grant quite frankly looks awful.

It's impossible to get 100% accuracy to transfers, even Sir Alex Ferguson made some bad errors.

Bilic is in the past, my concern is Allardyce has messed around picking Sawyers & Livermore when he should've had the awareness to replace them at the earliest opportunity.


The board and bilic equally to blame for lack of midfield steel.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on January 30, 2021, 05:51:53 PM
And the manager on which positions to prioritise. No surprise we're in for an actual striker a defensive midfielder and a right back is it? Dowling dropped the ball with Hegazi but I don't particularly blame him for the rest of the summer business.

We needed strengthening in the summer all over the pitch, in pretty much every position. There is an argument we could have got away with playing Bartley and Ajayi together at centre back had we got in two quality full backs and a good defensive midfielder on board. The reality is the squad needed major surgery to compete at this level and the budget just wasn't close to being enough to get the team up to speed, no matter how it was divided up. No getting away from that.

 
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: seteefeet on January 30, 2021, 05:53:46 PM
The DOF would have loved to have spent another £40m and brought in better players, it's the boardroom above him that decided on the budget that wasn't enough to get the job done.
That's like my daughter blaming me for not getting a new iphone for Christmas. If I can't afford it I can't afford it.
I'm no financial expert but I think a budget is dependant on how much money is available.
There was never enough cash on the table but, what we had was spent terribly so all involved in recruitment have to share that responsibility
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 30, 2021, 06:14:50 PM
It really didn’t help that the club misread the market - we assumed that clubs would be desperate for monies due to the pandemic meaning we could capture good players for lower transfer fees. This was simply wishful thinking as the market went the opposite way with clubs holding firm - as we witnessed with our summer long pursual of Grant.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on January 30, 2021, 06:17:52 PM
It really didn’t help that the club misread the market - we assumed that clubs would be desperate for monies due to the pandemic


One of the daftest suggestions bandied around in the summer but the only place i saw this strategy advocated was on here? Sums up the inteliigence of those in charge. Anyone knows when valueable assets are scarce and in demand the price rises not falls.

The older players on big salaries will be let go easier sure but anyone with anything to offer is going to cost you.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on January 30, 2021, 06:22:36 PM
Agreed, I never bought into the idea that clubs would be giving players away this summer.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 30, 2021, 06:32:46 PM

One of the daftest suggestions bandied around in the summer but the only place i saw this strategy advocated was on here? Sums up the inteliigence of those in charge. Anyone knows when valueable assets are scarce and in demand the price rises not falls.

The older players on big salaries will be let go easier sure but anyone with anything to offer is going to cost you.

If I remember correctly, it was revealed in an interview with Mark Jenkins when he announced his retirement.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on January 30, 2021, 06:37:20 PM
If I remember correctly, it was revealed in an interview with Mark Jenkins when he announced his retirement.


Really?? Thats flipping nuts. I only read it on here from a few posters. Just thought it was mob mentality madness where they all went along with one another  ;D

I'm struggling to believe they believed that would happen but hey gotta go with whats printed if thats the case.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 30, 2021, 06:39:38 PM
This was the interview - quite telling in my view:

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/08/06/exclusive-mark-jenkins-on-albions-finances-post-covid-19/

Forget the figures Villa, Sheffield United and Norwich spent last season. We are now in a different world, a completely different world.

“And the values of players have totally changed.

“Still today, nobody has any idea how much players are worth or how much their value has deteriorated.

“Speaking to agents three or four weeks ago, they were saying nobody is ringing us.

“Clubs are just going to do Bosman free transfers and loans.




The values didn’t change and nor did clubs rely on loans or bosmans.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on January 30, 2021, 06:44:38 PM
This was the interview - quite telling in my view:

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/08/06/exclusive-mark-jenkins-on-albions-finances-post-covid-19/

Forget the figures Villa, Sheffield United and Norwich spent last season. We are now in a different world, a completely different world.

“And the values of players have totally changed.

“Still today, nobody has any idea how much players are worth or how much their value has deteriorated.

“Speaking to agents three or four weeks ago, they were saying nobody is ringing us.

“Clubs are just going to do Bosman free transfers and loans.




The values didn’t change and nor did clubs rely on loans or bosmans.




Wow. He wasn't in charge though. Dowling could clearly see what was predicted wasn't happening so he should have reacted to the dynamics.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: smethwickw on January 30, 2021, 06:47:55 PM
Surely Dowling and his team could have overruled Bilic if they felt that certain areas had been neglected. Take RB for example. Who was the last genuine one we had?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 30, 2021, 06:48:58 PM
Surely Dowling and his team could have overruled Bilic if they felt that certain areas had been neglected. Take RB for example. Who was the last genuine one we had?

Prior to the signing of Furlong, I guess our last genuine right back was Billy Jones
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on January 30, 2021, 06:49:41 PM
Allan Nyom ?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 30, 2021, 06:52:30 PM
Surely Dowling and his team could have overruled Bilic if they felt that certain areas had been neglected. Take RB for example. Who was the last genuine one we had?

Furlong was signed as a right back. Remember he lost his place quite quickly to Ferguson who we then failed to replace.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on January 30, 2021, 06:55:03 PM
Dowling can pick out a decent lower league player , i'll give him that. Out of depth in the Premier League though , added to his reluctance to shop overseas . Not right for a club like us .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on January 30, 2021, 06:56:09 PM
Allan Nyom ?

It was who bizarrely looked decent at left back but shocking at right back.
After Jones came Christian Gamboa
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 30, 2021, 07:00:02 PM
Dowling can pick out a decent lower league player , i'll give him that. Out of depth in the Premier League though , added to his reluctance to shop overseas . Not right for a club like us .

And that is one of the biggest issues with Dowling.

The board may set a budget which is limited but you have to find ways to make that money go further.

Our limited budget is used in an inflated British market. No wonder we do not have the funds to give the squad a make over.

That money on Karlan Grant could have been spent far more productively if it had been spent abroad. It might not have paid off but it would have been a cheaper gamble than the one we’ve taken on Grant which also isn’t paying off.

It’s short sighted and a detriment to the club.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on January 30, 2021, 07:03:36 PM
Dowlings relative successes were established EFL players who were available on low fees. Hell even I recommended we sign Ajayi on here well before we went in for him.

The contracts given out to Austin,Grosiki etc are just daft. Does anyone above Dowling care enough to notice and sack him in the summer though
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on January 30, 2021, 07:04:02 PM
And that is one of the biggest issues with Dowling.

The board may set a budget which is limited but you have to find ways to make that money go further.

Our limited budget is used in an inflated British market. No wonder we do not have the funds to give the squad a make over.

That money on Karlan Grant could have been spent far more productively if it had been spent abroad. It might not have paid off but it would have been a cheaper gamble than the one we’ve taken on Grant which also isn’t paying off.

It’s short sighted and a detriment to the club.

Only problem is it was Slav who insisted on Grant not Dowling
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on January 30, 2021, 07:05:34 PM
Dowlings relative successes were established EFL players who were available on low fees. Hell even I recommended we sign Ajayi on here well before we went in for him.

The contracts given out to Austin,Grosiki etc are just daft. Does anyone above Dowling care enough to notice and sack him in the summer though

To be fair we gave Austin a 2 year contract a proven championship goal scorer for our 2 year promotion plan
 
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 30, 2021, 07:22:33 PM
Only problem is it was Slav who insisted on Grant not Dowling

Okay - use Zohore as another example..
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on January 30, 2021, 07:32:53 PM
This was the interview - quite telling in my view:

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/08/06/exclusive-mark-jenkins-on-albions-finances-post-covid-19/

Forget the figures Villa, Sheffield United and Norwich spent last season. We are now in a different world, a completely different world.

“And the values of players have totally changed.

“Still today, nobody has any idea how much players are worth or how much their value has deteriorated.

“Speaking to agents three or four weeks ago, they were saying nobody is ringing us.

“Clubs are just going to do Bosman free transfers and loans.




The values didn’t change and nor did clubs rely on loans or bosmans.


Personally, I think Jenkins was correct.

From what I've seen today, Diange is going to be a far better player than Grant, & is going to cost a lot less.

What we did in the summer was to pay high transfer fees for low wage & high risk players, think what Jenkins proposed was low transfer fees for high wage, but low risk players.

4 players with EPL experience on short term contracts, would have made the world of difference.

IMO, that's the strategy now, probably too late.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: seteefeet on January 30, 2021, 07:54:34 PM

Personally, I think Jenkins was correct.

From what I've seen today, Diange is going to be a far better player than Grant, & is going to cost a lot less.

What we did in the summer was to pay high transfer fees for low wage & high risk players, think what Jenkins proposed was low transfer fees for high wage, but low risk players.

4 players with EPL experience on short term contracts, would have made the world of difference.

IMO, that's the strategy now, probably too late.
Yes, Grant looks a poor signing. On paper he looked ok and I bought into his stats but, if he'd been scouted properly, he is never a centre forward. Another one down to poor recruitment.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 30, 2021, 08:04:25 PM

Personally, I think Jenkins was correct.

From what I've seen today, Diange is going to be a far better player than Grant, & is going to cost a lot less.

What we did in the summer was to pay high transfer fees for low wage & high risk players, think what Jenkins proposed was low transfer fees for high wage, but low risk players.

4 players with EPL experience on short term contracts, would have made the world of difference.

IMO, that's the strategy now, probably too late.

The signing of Diange is what the club should have pursued in the summer. The fact we have taken such a short sight approach to recruitment has proven costly for a number of reasons. The fact in your eyes that Diange looks an improvement on Grant is testament to the summer approach being wrong.

You can claim that Jenkins was correct - but he is equally culpable for the approach that was taken. He knew what it required to have a successful window given he was apart of the Ashworth era. He was a part of a group who turned their backs on affordable markets to pursue an expensive, high risk market in the UK - even prior to our promotion.

I’d say we were living a champagne lifestyle on a Prosecco budget. But I’m not sure the signings we made would constitute champagne to be honest !! We ended up with Prosecco at a champagne cost
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on January 30, 2021, 08:08:32 PM
The signing of Diange is what the club should have pursued in the summer. The fact we have taken such a short sight approach to recruitment has proven costly for a number of reasons. The fact in your eyes that Diange looks an improvement on Grant is testament to the summer approach being wrong.

You can claim that Jenkins was correct - but he is equally culpable for the approach that was taken. He knew what it required to have a successful window given he was apart of the Ashworth era. He was a part of a group who turned their backs on affordable markets to pursue an expensive, high risk market in the UK - even prior to our promotion.

I’d say we were living a champagne lifestyle on a Prosecco budget. But I’m not sure the signings we made would constitute champagne to be honest !!

With the greatest of respect Liam, at that time Jenkins had retired, he was only acting as an advisor to the club.
Ken was CEO, I can only assume Ken chose to ignore Jenkins advice.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 30, 2021, 08:15:12 PM
With the greatest of respect Liam, at that time Jenkins had retired, he was only acting as an advisor to the club.
Ken was CEO, I can only assume Ken chose to ignore Jenkins advice.

The planning for promotion would have been happening prior to Jenkins retirement - to not future plan for all eventualities merely highlights their incompetence.

I really don’t see Ken acting against the advice of Jenkins given he was wet behind the ears and new to the role.

I honestly believe that Jenkins thought they could take advantage of the market due to the pandemic. That would have been the advice and he left Dowling and Ken to pick up the pieces. Unfortunately neither of them had the foresight to change approach - partly because the foundations were not there to scout abroad because of Dowling and his pro British market approach. We were then stuck down an cul-de-sac  that we really could not get out of.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Oldbury24 on January 30, 2021, 10:39:39 PM
Seems to me that Dowling, like a number of the players bought in, is decent working in the Champ but just out of his depth at the top level.  It should not have needed Allardyce to come in and point out that we needed quality at CH, DM and CF.   And it shouldn't have taken Allardyce to come in for us to look at the European loan markets.   If BS's arrival does nothing else, shaking up the recruitment strategy might leave a legacy worthwhile.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: overseas baggie on January 30, 2021, 10:49:44 PM
Yes, Grant looks a poor signing. On paper he looked ok and I bought into his stats but, if he'd been scouted properly, he is never a centre forward. Another one down to poor recruitment.

Grant will get us back up though.  How much is that worth?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on January 30, 2021, 11:25:12 PM
Seems to me that Dowling, like a number of the players bought in, is decent working in the Champ but just out of his depth at the top level.  It should not have needed Allardyce to come in and point out that we needed quality at CH, DM and CF.   And it shouldn't have taken Allardyce to come in for us to look at the European loan markets.   If BS's arrival does nothing else, shaking up the recruitment strategy might leave a legacy worthwhile.

Ian Pearce is the chief scout not Dowling and the biggest problem getting quality players in, is the inability or refusal to pay the going rate to sign them. Dowling is begging and borrowing for players this window just like he did in the summer. That involves being last in the queue and needing to try to structure deals creatively to avoid paying anything upfront. Hence Allardyce hasn’t signed a centre back and hasn’t signed a defensive midfielder. Nor has he been able to bring in better quality full backs. We are also less attractive to players now given we are 19th.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on January 30, 2021, 11:48:37 PM
Grant will get us back up though.  How much is that worth?

Will he? It didn’t quite work out that way at Huddersfield. Besides, Sheffield Utd will have a strike force of McBurnie and Brewster next season backed up by McGoldrick and Sharp - 4 players proven at that level, plus Mousset and Burke. If any forward is going to rip up the league next year it will be one of theirs.I suppose that’s a different conversation though.

My biggest issue with Dowling is everything he does just feels very run of the mill. We had one of the biggest budgets in the championship last season and so Dowling was able to get away with being run of the mill as we could spend our way to promotion (relative to our rivals). Even then though the biggest success was a Bilic man in Matteus Pereira who probably played a bigger role than anyone else last season.

This year without the luxury of being a big fish in a small pond, Dowling has been unable to offer a strategy on how to close the gap on the clubs who have bigger budgets. There was no “outside the box” thinking, he just tried to beat richer clubs at their own game which just doesn’t work. Even more criminal though is that I am yet to see much evidence of any long term planning either. While other clubs are hoovering up players who are 18 -20 with an eye on the next few years, we have instead forked out millions on blokes who have had the one good season or bought others on short term deals.

Bilic deserves some of the blame of course - as we have seen this month the manager does have influence on the strategy as well, particularly on which positions we target and it will be Bilic who didn’t feel we needed to prioritise a defensive midfielder or full back, who publicly took responsibility for the decision to push to bring back together last seasons flawed, flagging squad and who eventually dug his heels in over Karlan Grant despite the fact that he wasn’t a centre forward and was actually just another form of Callum Robinson (without the versatility). Dowling however should have the final say in his role and he signed off on these decisions, while making some poor calls of his own (I agreed with his stance on Hegazi if you look at it in isolation, but probably not when you take into account the Kipre/Ivanovic farce earlier in the window - failing to sign a top quality centre half that both manager and tech director could agree on so instead getting 2 poor choices).

I think the ship has probably sailed for us now, but if we are going to reestablish ourselves in the premier league in the next couple of years, we need somebody at the helm who has fresh ideas and who gets more right than he gets wrong. That man isn’t Dowling.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on January 30, 2021, 11:49:57 PM
Ian Pearce is the chief scout not Dowling and the biggest problem getting quality players in, is the inability or refusal to pay the going rate to sign them. Dowling is begging and borrowing for players this window just like he did in the summer. That involves being last in the queue and needing to try to structure deals creatively to avoid paying anything upfront. Hence Allardyce hasn’t signed a centre back and hasn’t signed a defensive midfielder. Nor has he been able to bring in better quality full backs. We are also less attractive to players now given we are 19th.

Luke Dowling is Ian Pearce’s boss and has ultimate responsibility for all football operations, including the scouting department.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggies_24 on January 30, 2021, 11:56:01 PM
Will he? It didn’t quite work out that way at Huddersfield. Besides, Sheffield Utd will have a strike force of McBurnie and Brewster next season backed up by McGoldrick and Sharp - 4 players proven at that level, plus Mousset and Burke. If any forward is going to rip up the league next year it will be one of theirs.I suppose that’s a different conversation though.

My biggest issue with Dowling is everything he does just feels very run of the mill. We had one of the biggest budgets in the championship last season and so Dowling was able to get away with being run of the mill as we could spend our way to promotion (relative to our rivals). Even then though the biggest success was a Bilic man in Matteus Pereira who probably played a bigger role than anyone else last season.

This year without the luxury of being a big fish in a small pond, Dowling has been unable to offer a strategy on how to close the gap on the clubs who have bigger budgets. There was no “outside the box” thinking, he just tried to beat richer clubs at their own game which just doesn’t work. Even more criminal though is that I am yet to see much evidence of any long term planning either. While other clubs are hoovering up players who are 18 -20 with an eye on the next few years, we have instead forked out millions on blokes who have had the one good season or bought others on short term deals.

Bilic deserves some of the blame of course - as we have seen this month the manager does have influence on the strategy as well, particularly on which positions we target and it will be Bilic who didn’t feel we needed to prioritise a defensive midfielder or full back, who publicly took responsibility for the decision to push to bring back together last seasons flawed, flagging squad and who eventually dug his heels in over Karlan Grant despite the fact that he wasn’t a centre forward and was actually just another form of Callum Robinson (without the versatility). Dowling however should have the final say in his role and he signed off on these decisions, while making some poor calls of his own (I agreed with his stance on Hegazi if you look at it in isolation, but probably not when you take into account the Kipre/Ivanovic farce earlier in the window - failing to sign a top quality centre half that both manager and tech director could agree on so instead getting 2 poor choices).

I think the ship has probably sailed for us now, but if we are going to reestablish ourselves in the premier league in the next couple of years, we need somebody at the helm who has fresh ideas and who gets more right than he gets wrong. That man isn’t Dowling.

Couldn’t have said it better myself absolutely spot on.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: GREGMT on January 31, 2021, 03:37:41 AM
How does Luke Dowling have knowledge of football players that's superior to the actual WBA Manager?

Someone like Allardyce has been in football all of his life as a Player and Manager, he is 66 years old!

The Manager should not be reliant on Dowling for advice on actual signings.

He really is just a link man between Manager and Board, and this is required because many of the board are Chinese and living over there.

If we look at Bilic, then promotion was secured on 22nd July.  In less than 2 months we were starting the EPL season.  Many players were signed with the aim of getting out the Championship.  However, I accept he was too loyal to some namely Sawyers, Livermore, HRK, Austin etc.

If we look at Allardyce, he has picked some of the weakest players continually (Livermore, Sawyers, Grant, HRK).  Why haven't low cost signings been made earlier in January?


Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Adder on January 31, 2021, 08:13:25 AM
In defence of Dowling, even though Pereira may well have been Bilic's signing, Dowling would almost certainly have been involved in the terms of the deal i.e. the option to buy for £8m which should be making us a very healthy profit at some stage (probably the summer).
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on January 31, 2021, 09:21:34 AM
How does Luke Dowling have knowledge of football players that's superior to the actual WBA Manager?

Someone like Allardyce has been in football all of his life as a Player and Manager, he is 66 years old!

The Manager should not be reliant on Dowling for advice on actual signings.

He really is just a link man between Manager and Board, and this is required because many of the board are Chinese and living over there.

If we look at Bilic, then promotion was secured on 22nd July.  In less than 2 months we were starting the EPL season.  Many players were signed with the aim of getting out the Championship.  However, I accept he was too loyal to some namely Sawyers, Livermore, HRK, Austin etc.

If we look at Allardyce, he has picked some of the weakest players continually (Livermore, Sawyers, Grant, HRK).  Why haven't low cost signings been made earlier in January?

I think you are viewing the role of the head coach in the same way it was in the 1990's and early 2000's and misunderstanding the clubs set up.

Below is a link about Villa's version of Luke Dowling - sporting director Johan Lange.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/worldfootballindex.com/2020/08/johan-lange-who-is-aston-villas-new-sporting-director/amp/

Here's a video of Luke Dowling (with added chair poses 😂) explaining his old role of head of recruitment at former clubs - similar to what he does here but now his role also incorporates other areas of responsibility as well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyq4I8CU3Fk

Finally, below is a write up of the sporting directors working in the premier league a few years ago.

https://www.90min.com/posts/6272660-profiling-all-15-directors-of-football-in-the-premier-league


Sam Allardyce is the head coach. He doesn't have the old Alex Ferguson or Gary Megson role of picking the team AND managing scouting and recruitment - he is purely in charge of on pitch affairs. He will have an influence on who we sign and may also make the odd phone call to his agent mates, but he has himself said only this week "I don't know what's happening with Ahmed Musa, Luke Dowling deals with that".
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Standaman on January 31, 2021, 10:20:04 AM
Dof's in English football are still a little misunderstood and the balance of power between the head coach and dof is often out of whack. Too frequently even doyens of the sports press seem to think the Dof is there to get the players in that the Head Coach identifies and we get the tiresome debate about whether the coach really wanted the player or which party to attribute a signing to.

Even experienced continental coaches make the mistake. It was one of reasons Conte wanted to work in England because he thought he would get more influence over player recruitment. In truth that would be the case at many English clubs, but absolutely not at Chelsea where you get the players you are given and you succeed with them or they move onto someone who will. That is how it works and generally it has worked for them.

Dowling has made the mistake of appointing two relatively high profile coaches to the role while their recruitment might be regarded as a feather in his cap but that has made his life more difficult particularly as both are fairly canny operators in the media and have managed to saddle him with the blame for some of their tactical inadequacies. 

Maybe that is a lesson in itself "high profile" is not the same as "good" . Ultimately the Dof is the Head Coach's boss and the tail should not wag the dog.

Some of the criticism leveled at Dowling is justified and maybe a franker series of discussions with Bilic over the summer would have resulted in different criticism but maybe we might be in a slightly better place than we are now maybe he might have been able to save Bilic from himself. All of this is what might have been.

There are lessons to be learned but while Dowling is in post it is difficult to see them being learned and the appointment of Allardyce would suggest that haven't been

The club will no doubt go through yet another reboot. We might fire everybody and yes that satisfies fans need for a head on a stick but it also pitches out the door a lot of hard won experience. I am not sure where I sit on this, one last chance at redemption perhaps. 
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on January 31, 2021, 11:25:16 AM
You make some good points Stan, as Dan Ashworth had to learn from his early mistakes, but there have been precious few suggestions that Dowling is learning.

You could point to the fact he is starting to get players loaned out, but then I look at Harper at the start of the season and Edwards, Kipre and Field now.

You could point to us looking to Europe this Jan but that seems to have had Allardyce's influence as well.

The best option for me is hiring a good continental sporting director with a proven track record.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: GREGMT on January 31, 2021, 11:55:03 AM
I think you are viewing the role of the head coach in the same way it was in the 1990's and early 2000's and misunderstanding the clubs set up.

Below is a link about Villa's version of Luke Dowling - sporting director Johan Lange.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/worldfootballindex.com/2020/08/johan-lange-who-is-aston-villas-new-sporting-director/amp/

Here's a video of Luke Dowling (with added chair poses 😂) explaining his old role of head of recruitment at former clubs - similar to what he does here but now his role also incorporates other areas of responsibility as well.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyq4I8CU3Fk

Finally, below is a write up of the sporting directors working in the premier league a few years ago.

https://www.90min.com/posts/6272660-profiling-all-15-directors-of-football-in-the-premier-league


Sam Allardyce is the head coach. He doesn't have the old Alex Ferguson or Gary Megson role of picking the team AND managing scouting and recruitment - he is purely in charge of on pitch affairs. He will have an influence on who we sign and may also make the odd phone call to his agent mates, but he has himself said only this week "I don't know what's happening with Ahmed Musa, Luke Dowling deals with that".

I have heard countless people on here blame Bilic for poor Summer signings such as Grant, Ivanovic, Diangana, Kipre etc.  So in reality every failed transfer is the fault of Luke Dowling and not the Manager.

I fail to see why Dowling has more influence over signings than the Manager.  The Manager is the expert, not Dowling.

I suppose its Dowling fault over Allardyce for the selection of Livermore, Sawyers, Grant, HRK, Furlong, Gibbs over the last few weeks!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on January 31, 2021, 12:21:17 PM
I have heard countless people on here blame Bilic for poor Summer signings such as Grant, Ivanovic, Diangana, Kipre etc.  So in reality every failed transfer is the fault of Luke Dowling and not the Manager.

I fail to see why Dowling has more influence over signings than the Manager.  The Manager is the expert, not Dowling.

I suppose its Dowling fault over Allardyce for the selection of Livermore, Sawyers, Grant, HRK, Furlong, Gibbs over the last few weeks!

I mean if you want to keep saying this and not read the links in the post which say exactly the opposite, then i'm not sure what else to say. For what it's worth, if we are going to ignore their actual job roles and decide who is responsible based on what suits our own agenda, then I think it's Keiron Gibbs fault as his scouting and negotiating are just not up to scratch. It doesn't matter that it isn't Gibbs job, i'm just going to say it because facts don't matter.

As for the blame on Bilic, he said in interviews that Ivanovic was his signing. Reading between the lines, Dowling failed him with the signing of Kipre who Bilic didn't want. Nobody....Nobody has blamed Bilic for Kipre. Diangana was part of a strategy that Bilic has said in the media was his choice to bring the old gang back together and Grant seems to be a joint endeavour between club and Bilic and the local press have suggested Bilic dug his heels in (I don't particularly blame Bilic alone - it was Dowling too).
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiebof on January 31, 2021, 12:21:44 PM

I fail to see why Dowling has more influence over signings than the Manager.  The Manager is the expert, not Dowling.


Dowling should be looking after the long term vision of the club. Leaving it to a manger could lead to much more short termism, think of Harry Redknapp at QPR, lots of money spent on lots of players at the wrong stage of their careers. The Dowling role should safeguard against that whilst also considering pathways into the first team for promising youngsters in the academy setup. Just a couple of reasons why Dowling should have more influence.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: wodenson46 on January 31, 2021, 12:29:42 PM
Dowling should be looking after the long term vision of the club. Leaving it to a manger could lead to much more short termism, think of Harry Redknapp at QPR, lots of money spent on lots of players at the wrong stage of their careers. The Dowling role should safeguard against that whilst also considering pathways into the first team for promising youngsters in the academy setup. Just a couple of reasons why Dowling should have more influence.

Change Dowling to a less specific 'Director of Football' and that is the perfect description of what should be happening. Well said sir!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on January 31, 2021, 12:52:00 PM
Dowling should be looking after the long term vision of the club. Leaving it to a manger could lead to much more short termism, think of Harry Redknapp at QPR, lots of money spent on lots of players at the wrong stage of their careers. The Dowling role should safeguard against that whilst also considering pathways into the first team for promising youngsters in the academy setup. Just a couple of reasons why Dowling should have more influence.

All good, assuming the DoF has a free hit, & not overridden from above.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WorcsWBA on January 31, 2021, 01:06:05 PM
All good, assuming the DoF has a free hit, & not overridden from above.
And assuming that the DoF is capable and has very good connections!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: leeiswba on January 31, 2021, 01:37:38 PM
I have heard countless people on here blame Bilic for poor Summer signings such as Grant, Ivanovic, Diangana, Kipre etc.  So in reality every failed transfer is the fault of Luke Dowling and not the Manager.

I fail to see why Dowling has more influence over signings than the Manager.  The Manager is the expert, not Dowling.

I suppose its Dowling fault over Allardyce for the selection of Livermore, Sawyers, Grant, HRK, Furlong, Gibbs over the last few weeks!

I’m sorry if I come across rude mate, but how many times do you need to be told by different posters just how the football club works in terms of transfers?

The fact you are still saying Allardyce has failed in the market bringing players in when it’s been said again and again that’s not the way it works.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: GREGMT on January 31, 2021, 02:37:12 PM
I’m sorry if I come across rude mate, but how many times do you need to be told by different posters just how the football club works in terms of transfers?

The fact you are still saying Allardyce has failed in the market bringing players in when it’s been said again and again that’s not the way it works.


Sorry Mate!

In that case target the other posters also having a pop at Bilic for signings made last Summer.

No good trying to just single out myself.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on January 31, 2021, 05:24:22 PM
Sorry Mate!

In that case target the other posters also having a pop at Bilic for signings made last Summer.

No good trying to just single out myself.

I can't really recall anyone on here or Twitter suggesting Bilic was the man responsible for all of our transfer activity last summer in the same way you are of Allardyce this month.

What there has been in the "post mortem" of our summer activity is an acknowledgement of which areas Bilic did have an influence of. We know that Bilic asked Dowling/the club to prioritise making a number of last season's loan deals permanent (source - Slaven Bilic himself). We know Bilic wanted Branislav Ivanovic (source - Slaven Bilic himself). We also have the suggestion from a number of reliable local journalists that Bilic;

A, Dug his heels in as the transfer window went on to get Grant over the line rather than moving on to other targets (we can't be 100% sure if this is a fact as I can't recall Bilic saying much in the press but the patch journos have heard it from somewhere).

B, Did not feel that Defensive midfield, full back or goalkeeper were as high priority as other areas. Again, we can't know if this is true for sure, but the fact the local journo's predictions came true and we didn't improve on these areas lends weight to their statements. If it was true, Bilic was proven right about the goal keeper but half of this forum has defensive mid as their highest priority and I'd argue they have all been proven correct over the first half of this season.

That however doesn't make Bilic fully responsible. Luke Dowling is his boss and Dowling signed off on any decisions Bilic got his own way on. Dowling's decisions will also have had an impact on Bilic's decisions, with the best example being Dowling's purchase of Cedric Kipre because he came available at a good price, despite the fact he probably wasn't what we needed and the knock on was that Bilic then ended up asking for Ivanovic meaning 2 bad signings rather than us getting 1 good one.

The way I see it, there are areas that are the clubs responsibility (Dowling's) or both Dowling & Bilic. There are none that are solely Bilic.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on January 31, 2021, 05:31:42 PM
Sorry Mate!

In that case target the other posters also having a pop at Bilic for signings made last Summer.

No good trying to just single out myself.

The other thing I would say on this, is that in the main, Bilic has garnered a lot more praise than criticism for his transfer activity in his time here, thanks to the fact that it was reported at the time and generally accepted that Pereira was somebody who Bilic or his team were responsible for identifying. Bilic wouldn't have negotiated for him, that's Dowling's job, but he deserves credit for pushing for it.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: GREGMT on January 31, 2021, 07:56:57 PM
I can't really recall anyone on here or Twitter suggesting Bilic was the man responsible for all of our transfer activity last summer in the same way you are of Allardyce this month.

What there has been in the "post mortem" of our summer activity is an acknowledgement of which areas Bilic did have an influence of. We know that Bilic asked Dowling/the club to prioritise making a number of last season's loan deals permanent (source - Slaven Bilic himself). We know Bilic wanted Branislav Ivanovic (source - Slaven Bilic himself). We also have the suggestion from a number of reliable local journalists that Bilic;

A, Dug his heels in as the transfer window went on to get Grant over the line rather than moving on to other targets (we can't be 100% sure if this is a fact as I can't recall Bilic saying much in the press but the patch journos have heard it from somewhere).

B, Did not feel that Defensive midfield, full back or goalkeeper were as high priority as other areas. Again, we can't know if this is true for sure, but the fact the local journo's predictions came true and we didn't improve on these areas lends weight to their statements. If it was true, Bilic was proven right about the goal keeper but half of this forum has defensive mid as their highest priority and I'd argue they have all been proven correct over the first half of this season.

That however doesn't make Bilic fully responsible. Luke Dowling is his boss and Dowling signed off on any decisions Bilic got his own way on. Dowling's decisions will also have had an impact on Bilic's decisions, with the best example being Dowling's purchase of Cedric Kipre because he came available at a good price, despite the fact he probably wasn't what we needed and the knock on was that Bilic then ended up asking for Ivanovic meaning 2 bad signings rather than us getting 1 good one.

The way I see it, there are areas that are the clubs responsibility (Dowling's) or both Dowling & Bilic. There are none that are solely Bilic.


So what exactly was Bilic sacked for, if the responsibility for player recruitment rests with Dowling?  In essence you're only calling out the Manager for poor tactics, formations, bad results?

The budget we are operating with is basically the lowest in the Division, therefore we should be expected to finish bottom, so currently we are exceeding expectations!

I watched Lorient beat PSG today 3-2, I bet their players are on £10,000 per week max.  Shame we haven't recruited from clubs like this.

As regards vouching for defensive midfield reinforcements, I've been very vocal about it from the start.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: leeiswba on January 31, 2021, 09:44:56 PM
So what exactly was Bilic sacked for, if the responsibility for player recruitment rests with Dowling?  In essence you're only calling out the Manager for poor tactics, formations, bad results?

The budget we are operating with is basically the lowest in the Division, therefore we should be expected to finish bottom, so currently we are exceeding expectations!

I watched Lorient beat PSG today 3-2, I bet their players are on £10,000 per week max.  Shame we haven't recruited from clubs like this.

As regards vouching for defensive midfield reinforcements, I've been very vocal about it from the start.

Agree entirely, one of Dowlings major downfalls is focusing too much on the British market which for a club like us with hardly any money to spend is pointless, much better value for money abroad.

Look at how we established ourselves last time; olsson, Mulimbu, yacob, odemwingie etc, all great players and affordable prices as they were from abroad
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 01, 2021, 11:16:23 PM
Some good work done by Cool-Hand Luke. Credit due I think , brilliant window , possible best ever for minimal outlay. Well done Sam for talking these players in.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 01, 2021, 11:21:14 PM
He’s done well in getting the deals over the line - this is exactly what many were advocating in the summer. A clever use of resources. We’ve improved the team massively this month and have barely spent a penny. We spent big in the summer and have received nothing in return.

Tonight just highlights how rubbish and ill thought out our summer recruitment was.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WBArgo on February 01, 2021, 11:22:01 PM
Agree entirely, one of Dowlings major downfalls is focusing too much on the British market which for a club like us with hardly any money to spend is pointless, much better value for money abroad.

Look at how we established ourselves last time; olsson, Mulimbu, yacob, odemwingie etc, all great players and affordable prices as they were from abroad

That's not really true though, we also had plenty of British and Irish players too, i.e. Brunt, Morrison, Dorrans, McAuley, Jones, Long, Reid, Shorey all came at a similar time and all did well.

In fairness to Dowling a lot of our signings have done well since he came.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on February 01, 2021, 11:22:51 PM
The worst thing is the board knew their relationship with Bilic was unworkable and now we are in the rubbish because of it.

The club bottled it big time.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on February 01, 2021, 11:34:25 PM
I can't say I know a lot about most of the new signings, but on paper and the level of the clubs they come from, this has been an excellent window. When you consider it must have been achieved within a limited budget.  Credit to Dowling and whoever identified the players. Having said that, I hope they won't now disappoint.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on February 01, 2021, 11:36:51 PM
I can't say I know a lot about most of the new signings, but on paper and the level of the clubs they come from, this has been an excellent window. When you consider it must have been achieved within a limited budget.  Credit to Dowling and whoever identified the players. Having said that, I hope they won't now disappoint.
The overseas lads have to be Allardyce surely ?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 01, 2021, 11:39:30 PM
The overseas lads have to be Allardyce surely ?

You would have thought so - all of our overseas signings in recent years under Dowling have been lead by the manager.

Hopefully it’s something Dowling can make use of going forwards if we’re operating with limited resources
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on February 02, 2021, 12:04:23 AM
Personally, I’m really conflicted by this window. On the one hand, we have backed Allardyce and brought in 4 (probably 5) new faces for the first team to give him the best opportunity to some how perform a miracle (even if it does feel a bit too late in the month).

On the other hand, by the time Musa signs we will likely have spent a (conservative estimate) of £10m on short term deals this January. If we were within touching distance of 17th then it would be a good gamble, but with us requiring a premier league record recovery it starts looking like we have just eaten into next years budget, money we are going to need to replace the raft of players who will be out of contract and at the end of the season, we may well have nothing left to show for it other than a near 34 year old Robert Snodgrass. It feels a bit like we have lost a few hundred betting and have decided to gamble even more to try to get even by putting it on a 100-1 horse.

We came into the day talking about getting a defender but instead bought somebody who wants to play midfield. As I’ve said on another thread, we now have a ton of midfielders (3 alone signed this month) when you could argue some of that money would have been better spent on areas such as full back and central defence. Players we will rely on next season will likely not feature much for the rest of this one (Diangana, Sawyers, Robinson, Grant) while Connor Gallagher who had been our outfield player of the season up until a few weeks ago now looks likely to also be sidelined when there is at this stage little evidence that Maitland-Niles is a better central midfielder (he is a great full back but Arsenal fans have questions about the midfield role).

Dowling deserves credit for his negotiating skills, it is one area I probably don’t credit him with enough but he does get a lot of deals done like this and I should acknowledge that.

I just feel a bit uneasy about the longer term implications of this January gamble.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: wba_1996 on February 02, 2021, 12:52:15 AM
Completely agree with the above post. We might turn things around now and have a respectable end to the season, but realistically we’re still going to be relegated. The club is run on a short term basis and if the intention is to let Allardyce walk in the summer then we’ve just wasted a good chunk of money that could have been put towards rebuilding under a new head coach.

Massive rebuild is due yet again in the summer and some difficult decisions to be made, I’d release pretty much all of the out of contract players but there’s no way we can afford to replace them.

But hey ho, looking at the positives at least I’ve got 4 months of not seeing Livermore in central midfield.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Standaman on February 02, 2021, 12:57:27 AM
This window is entirely agent lead. I wouldn't credit anybody at the club for identifying the players concerned. Although I would credit Dowling for getting the deals done at all.  They are short term fixes which in the context of where we are is to degree understandable and an entirely logical consequence of appointing Allardyce.

If hasn't cost us nothing and I don't think Baggies estimate of £10m is going to be too wide of the mark. It won't save us (nothing was going to do that after about 10 games) but the long term issues with the squad are starting to pile up.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on February 02, 2021, 07:23:34 AM
Completely agree with the above post. We might turn things around now and have a respectable end to the season, but realistically we’re still going to be relegated. The club is run on a short term basis and if the intention is to let Allardyce walk in the summer then we’ve just wasted a good chunk of money that could have been put towards rebuilding under a new head coach.

Massive rebuild is due yet again in the summer and some difficult decisions to be made, I’d release pretty much all of the out of contract players but there’s no way we can afford to replace them.

But hey ho, looking at the positives at least I’ve got 4 months of not seeing Livermore in central midfield.

After tonight!  ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiebof on February 02, 2021, 08:30:09 AM
Glad to see we have picked up some players in the two keep positions we had to sort out, as others have echoed, it would have been nice to have strengthened the defence.

I think we should await judgment on whether the window is a success or not until we see how the players get on, on paper I am pleased with Yokuslu and Maitland-Niles and less so with Diagne and Snodgrass but let's see.

Agree with calls above, this looks entirely agent led which I personally find disappointing. Finally the shouts of why couldn't we sign these players in the summer, they weren't necessarily available,  it isn't as easy as that. Obviously we all agree though that these positions should have been filled in the summer but it might not have been with these players as they likely weren't available.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 02, 2021, 08:37:03 AM
This thread 🙄
When a signing doesn’t work out for us it’s because Downing is rubbish, when they do it’s because the manager is great.
He gets the blame for everything and very very little credit.
He is a facilitator, it’s not his job to pick/train/motivate the team....all clubs make bad signings ....or signings that don’t particularly workout for them....look at Charlie Austin, we were desperate for a proper number nine with a record that suggested goals goals goals , he had that , it’s not Dowlings fault that he just dipped off the fitness cliff and couldn’t run (but still finished top scorer)
I really don’t get why so many “experts” on here can’t wait to crucify him.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: darbolina on February 02, 2021, 09:10:58 AM
 Dowling does a high profile job and is part of the main football decision making processes at the club. In the time he's been here, there have been some successes on the pitch (promotion in spite of low investment, signing of Pereira) and some poor decisions (based on the results) this season in particular. Compare us with say Leeds, Sheff Utd, Fulham and Brighton this season or Norwich overall. Are we punching at or above our weight or are we under par. I'd say we're under par overall compared to those teams who generally invested better or in the case of Sheff Utd and Norwich, have a longer term vision to go down and build upon what they already have with a coach they trust or a system they trust.

In terms of strategy, we're either erratic or it's non-existent ( I think it's more the latter).

Overall, it's Lai's fault (or true owner if different), Dowling's fault and of course the players/ head coaches fault.

Dowling cannot escape his key role in this seasons poor recruitment and horrendous showing in the premier league which is way worse than my pre season negative expectations overall. At this stage, I thought we'd be in a pack of five at the bottom but we're well adrift already.

The biggest criticism I have of Dowling is that if he's supposed to be the owner of the 'football' DNA of the club at the moment (it ain't Lai or the other directors) then the vision is short term, erratic and panicky. Compare with Dan Ashworth who is building something (again) at Brighton which will have a long term impact. In the past couple of years, our academy has lost a lot of coaches and players for example. We've lurched from one first team head coach to another. Our recruitment has been , well erratic again (including the journey from Bilic to SA with a squad just not suited to SA) . These areas are Dowlings main area as far as I can see.......... I give him 3/10 this season so far, last season was an 8/10 based on the fact we got up
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiebof on February 02, 2021, 09:31:20 AM
This thread 🙄
When a signing doesn’t work out for us it’s because Downing is rubbish, when they do it’s because the manager is great.
He gets the blame for everything and very very little credit.
He is a facilitator, it’s not his job to pick/train/motivate the team....all clubs make bad signings ....or signings that don’t particularly workout for them....look at Charlie Austin, we were desperate for a proper number nine with a record that suggested goals goals goals , he had that , it’s not Dowlings fault that he just dipped off the fitness cliff and couldn’t run (but still finished top scorer)
I really don’t get why so many “experts” on here can’t wait to crucify him.

We can't wait to crucify him because he in an important job and we can see his limitations, much the same with Lai and managers too for that matter. I wouldn't say that he doesn't get credit when it is due either, most on here have been impressed with his negotiation skills and he also got praise for lowering the average age of the squad in summer 2019. He has also had some praise in loaning out some youngsters, granted most have picked up injuries but that isn't down to him.

No he doesn't pick, train or motivate the team but he does oversee recruitment and plenty of the criticisms on here have been fair and proven correct. Even Austin, you'll have seen a fair few of us thought it was a poor signing at the time, I wouldn't say we were unlucky that his fitness fell off a cliff, it was obvious. You could point to him scoring a couple of goals at QPR and question that but he is now playing in a system with two up top and wing-backs, where he can stay central, doesn't have to run the channels or link play, which suits him now. It was obvious that Bilic would play one up top, he has most of his career so it was an even poorer signing. You could argue that is Bilic's fault but Dowling should have done his due diligence. I think that's an example of people's issues in a nutshell, he doesn't do enough diligence, doesn't think outside of the box or work smart enough.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on February 02, 2021, 09:35:16 AM

The biggest criticism I have of Dowling is that if he's supposed to be the owner of the 'football' DNA of the club at the moment (it ain't Lai or the other directors) then the vision is short term, erratic and panicky. Compare with Dan Ashworth who is building something (again) at Brighton which will have a long term impact. In the past couple of years, our academy has lost a lot of coaches and players for example. We've lurched from one first team head coach to another. Our recruitment has been , well erratic again (including the journey from Bilic to SA with a squad just not suited to SA) . These areas are Dowlings main area as far as I can see.......... I give him 3/10 this season so far, last season was an 8/10 based on the fact we got up

There are at least some reports knocking about that Dowling had quite a big affect on the academy staff leaving. When he should have come in and looked to cement the one part of the club that seemed to be progressing at a steady rate.



Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: wba_1996 on February 02, 2021, 08:21:59 PM
Completely agree with the above post. We might turn things around now and have a respectable end to the season, but realistically we’re still going to be relegated. The club is run on a short term basis and if the intention is to let Allardyce walk in the summer then we’ve just wasted a good chunk of money that could have been put towards rebuilding under a new head coach.

Massive rebuild is due yet again in the summer and some difficult decisions to be made, I’d release pretty much all of the out of contract players but there’s no way we can afford to replace them.

But hey ho, looking at the positives at least I’ve got 4 months of not seeing Livermore in central midfield.

Going back to my post from last night, how do fans feel about wasting money on these signings for an awful manager when none of them will be here next season in the Championship?

How does Maitland-Niles help us win promotion?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Aztech on February 02, 2021, 08:24:42 PM
Going back to my post from last night, how do fans feel about wasting money on these signings for an awful manager when none of them will be here next season in the Championship?

How does Maitland-Niles help us win promotion?

Unfortunately I agree it will be money wasted.

I hope they prove me wrong but in my opinion as soon as they decided to release Bilic they should have appointed someone with a long term plan and allow them to sign some young up and coming players who are not quite ready for the premier league.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on February 02, 2021, 08:27:59 PM
It's why Dowling needs to intervene and stop the madness of wasting further money on Ahmed Musa now. Either Allardyce performs a miracle with the squad as it is, or he doesn't.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 02, 2021, 08:31:16 PM
It's why Dowling needs to intervene and stop the madness of wasting further money on Ahmed Musa now. Either Allardyce performs a miracle with the squad as it is, or he doesn't.
Spot on mate, and please Mr Dowling , tell Allardyce to play Grosicki, or pay his wages from his own salary
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: wba_1996 on February 02, 2021, 08:32:33 PM
It's why Dowling needs to intervene and stop the madness of wasting further money on Ahmed Musa now. Either Allardyce performs a miracle with the squad as it is, or he doesn't.

Spot on. We’ve already got 5 left wingers, what’s the point in wasting wages on a 6th?

When Jenkins left he said we wouldn’t be doing a Norwich. I’d have been over the moon to have done a Norwich. They’re miles ahead of us now.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SirTonyM on February 02, 2021, 08:40:00 PM
It’s probably for another thread but don’t know which....The owner doesn’t care, The manager is a firefighter who seems to have no water supply and the players aren’t very good...Back to square one again? I love football but it does seem pretty depressing and disheartening at the moment. Back to the champ to attempt to get back up to 17th again (although 17th seems so far off!)
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2021, 08:41:13 PM
It's why Dowling needs to intervene and stop the madness of wasting further money on Ahmed Musa now. Either Allardyce performs a miracle with the squad as it is, or he doesn't.
If it means not bringing HRK on I'll set up a Go Fund me page .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggies_24 on February 02, 2021, 08:46:16 PM
Allardyce was Dowling’s man & based on that he should be shown the door when the inevitable happens in 5 weeks time & Sam walks out of the door.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2021, 08:48:25 PM
You just know if Dowling's still here next season HRK , Livermore , Phillips and probably a couple more will be key players on fat contracts.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on February 02, 2021, 08:49:54 PM
You just know if Dowling's still here next season HRK , Livermore , Phillips and probably a couple more will be key players on fat contracts.

PLEASE GOD NO
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2021, 08:50:42 PM
PLEASE GOD NO
All so easy , you watch.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Atomic on February 02, 2021, 08:52:56 PM
In slight defence of Dowling none of us know what instructions he's been given by those above him. We cant even pay a PL wage it seems.

The buck stops with Lai ultimately.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2021, 08:57:06 PM
In slight defence of Dowling none of us know what instructions he's been given by those above him. We cant even pay a PL wage it seems.

The buck stops with Lai ultimately.
Would you have handed both Phillips and Livermore long new contracts last season ?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: ex coseley kid on February 02, 2021, 08:59:07 PM
Got an idea for a movie:

Bring Me The Head Of Luke Dowling

with apologies to the younger ones amongst us.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Atomic on February 02, 2021, 09:00:46 PM
Would you have handed both Phillips and Livermore long new contracts last season ?

You're joking.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2021, 09:01:48 PM
You're joking.
In the heat of tonight but I'm sure they both got them.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on February 02, 2021, 09:01:57 PM
It's a gamble signing new players, they may or may not work. To reward our deadweight with new deals is not a gamble its sheer stupidity.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Atomic on February 02, 2021, 09:03:06 PM
In the heat of tonight but I'm sure they both got them.

I'm far from a fan of Dowling but our problems start higher up than him.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on February 02, 2021, 09:04:04 PM
In the heat of tonight but I'm sure they both got them.

Philip's did after his good start to the season
Wasnt he our top scorer in October?
Dont think Livermore got one
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2021, 09:05:31 PM
I'm far from a fan of Dowling but our problems start higher up than him.
Agreed , appointing him for starters with his obssesion for lower league players .
Out of his depth at this level.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on February 02, 2021, 09:05:33 PM
Philip's did after his good start to the season
Wasnt he our top scorer in October?
Dont think Livermore got one

Livermore offered new deal Dec 2018. Luke Dowling said his contract extension was throughly deserved    :o    ;D

https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/december/livermore-commits-to-hawthorns-future


SWEET MOTHER MARY JOSEPH
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2021, 09:09:45 PM
Livermore offered new deal Dec 2018. Luke Dowling said his contract extension was throughly deserved    :o    ;D

https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/december/livermore-commits-to-hawthorns-future


SWEET MOTHER MARY JOSEPH
I knew I wasn't far off , Dowling can go too .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on February 02, 2021, 09:11:22 PM
Dowling can go. His dealings will crucify us.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on February 03, 2021, 12:05:22 AM
I can't say I know a lot about most of the new signings, but on paper and the level of the clubs they come from, this has been an excellent window. When you consider it must have been achieved within a limited budget.  Credit to Dowling and whoever identified the players. Having said that, I hope they won't now disappoint.
Sorry but that is non-sensical, how can it be judged as excellent? Yet ?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: tex on February 03, 2021, 01:56:50 AM
Luke Dowlings track record is abysmal. i am not sure if this is because of the constraints he is working under or if he is just not the right person. He is symptomatic of the leadership at our club, means well generally but incompetent at the job.  it looks like he had his own agenda in the summer , buy cheap players with potential for profit, and the manager was not on board. I don't think Slaven covered himself in glory either.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on February 03, 2021, 10:42:52 AM
Not directly related to Dowling but a mirror example of what should have happened with us to prevent this seasons disaster.

AVB didnt want Ntchem but Marseille did so once they went against his wishes and signed Ntchem AVB has offered his resignation. Harsh on Bilic but common sense says he should have done the same.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11810/12206496/andre-villas-boas-offers-resignation-as-marseille-manager-after-disagreement-over-olivier-ntcham-signing

It's vital the DOF and Manager/coach work together not against each other. Especially when there is little money to go around.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WBASPE77 on February 03, 2021, 11:03:57 AM
Dowling is the one that should be held most accountable for. The way he sacked Billic was a disgrace and the Hegazi deal isn't far behind. The club got so much stick for the way those were handled and rightly so as it was nothing short of a disgrace

Kipre, ivanovic , Krov, Zohore , all look like badly handled transfers without any real plan or strategy . The club itself has no long term vision, no plan. Clubs like Norwich have. Farke has been at Norwich longer than our last four managers combined.

On what grounds does Dowling this he is better at recruiting players than someone like Billic.

He is the route of the biggest problems at this club. The sooner he goes the better.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on February 03, 2021, 11:05:26 AM
Dowling is the one that should be held most accountable for. The way he sacked Billic was a disgrace and the Hegazi deal isn't far behind. The club got so much stick for the way those were handled and rightly so as it was nothing short of a disgrace

Kipre, ivanovic , Krov, Zohore , all look like badly handled transfers without any real plan or strategy . The club itself has no long term vision, no plan. Clubs like Norwich have. Farke has been at Norwich longer than our last four managers combined.

On what grounds does Dowling this he is better at recruiting players than someone like Billic.

He is the route of the biggest problems at this club. The sooner he goes the better.


I agree the board are to blame but they won't be leaving, the only one that would get moved would be Bilic.

My point is that everyone and his dog knew the situation was unworkable (not Bilic fault) so Bilic should have left with his head held high and left these idiots to it. He didn't need the money to stay.


Now the club is suffering badly and all this nonsense was inevitable.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggies_24 on February 03, 2021, 11:19:41 AM
The summer business looks more of a shambles each passing week. Signing Grant after we’d signed Grady & Robinson has left us with 3 left wingers 2 of which have cost the best part of £32m, even if Bilic was pushing for Grant Dowling should have overruled him & if reports are true Bilic didn’t want Grady & thought the money should have been distributed around the team but was overruled by Dowling.

He then sacks Bilic for Allardyce which is becoming clearer with each week this team isn’t suited to play Allardyce’s football & has now blown what very little remaining budget we had on loans to get Allardyce’s players for 6 months when we are dead & buried which is now going to impact the summer budget. It’s all short term plugs there’s zero long term planning, we lurch from one style to another we need a defined style of playing and to recruit & hire managers that fit that style, that’s all down to Dowling we’ve gone from big Dave, the Jimmy Shan fiasco, Bilic to Allardyce massive swings in style.

I guarantee if Dowling is here in the summer the next manager will be John Terry I’ll put my house on it.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on February 03, 2021, 12:19:51 PM

I agree the board are to blame but they won't be leaving, the only one that would get moved would be Bilic.

My point is that everyone and his dog knew the situation was unworkable (not Bilic fault) so Bilic should have left with his head held high and left these idiots to it. He didn't need the money to stay.


Now the club is suffering badly and all this nonsense was inevitable.

its not just Bilic though is it? if he walks his team has to walk with him or stay and be sacked as Julian Dicks did, (which must have cost the club more money.) I don't know how many people or how much they were paid but no-one in footballs front room is paid less than well.

A major part of the DoF's job has to be creating a team environment for all the staff including the head coach and his staff
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on February 03, 2021, 12:22:23 PM
TBF Bilic didnt mind treating the players he didnt want with disrespect when they were signed. BIlic should have walked and then his staff get paid off. It was what happened and was inevitable.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: skyclad99 on February 03, 2021, 12:22:43 PM
The summer business looks more of a shambles each passing week. Signing Grant after we’d signed Grady & Robinson has left us with 3 left wingers 2 of which have cost the best part of £32m, even if Bilic was pushing for Grant Dowling should have overruled him & if reports are true Bilic didn’t want Grady & thought the money should have been distributed around the team but was overruled by Dowling.

He then sacks Bilic for Allardyce which is becoming clearer with each week this team isn’t suited to play Allardyce’s football & has now blown what very little remaining budget we had on loans to get Allardyce’s players for 6 months when we are dead & buried which is now going to impact the summer budget. It’s all short term plugs there’s zero long term planning, we lurch from one style to another we need a defined style of playing and to recruit & hire managers that fit that style, that’s all down to Dowling we’ve gone from big Dave, the Jimmy Shan fiasco, Bilic to Allardyce massive swings in style.

I guarantee if Dowling is here in the summer the next manager will be John Terry I’ll put my house on it.

Can you send me a picture of your house as I am interested in that bet....... ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: GREGMT on February 03, 2021, 12:45:21 PM
The summer business looks more of a shambles each passing week. Signing Grant after we’d signed Grady & Robinson has left us with 3 left wingers 2 of which have cost the best part of £32m, even if Bilic was pushing for Grant Dowling should have overruled him & if reports are true Bilic didn’t want Grady & thought the money should have been distributed around the team but was overruled by Dowling.

He then sacks Bilic for Allardyce which is becoming clearer with each week this team isn’t suited to play Allardyce’s football & has now blown what very little remaining budget we had on loans to get Allardyce’s players for 6 months when we are dead & buried which is now going to impact the summer budget. It’s all short term plugs there’s zero long term planning, we lurch from one style to another we need a defined style of playing and to recruit & hire managers that fit that style, that’s all down to Dowling we’ve gone from big Dave, the Jimmy Shan fiasco, Bilic to Allardyce massive swings in style.

I guarantee if Dowling is here in the summer the next manager will be John Terry I’ll put my house on it.

It's ridiculous people are getting fixated about the Summer budget and how much we spent on each player.

£24m for Pereira & Grant = about right.
£19m for Diangana & Ajayi = about right.
FREE Ivanovic = dead right.

You win some / lose some.  What's clear is that Bilic was given nowhere near enough money.  But its gone now and time to look forwards.

The sole focus is on how Allardyce delivers improved performces and results with resources that are better than Bilic started with last September.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: darbolina on February 03, 2021, 01:16:06 PM
It's ridiculous people are getting fixated about the Summer budget and how much we spent on each player.

£24m for Pereira & Grant = about right.
£19m for Diangana & Ajayi = about right.
FREE Ivanovic = dead right.

You win some / lose some.  What's clear is that Bilic was given nowhere near enough money.  But its gone now and time to look forwards.

The sole focus is on how Allardyce delivers improved performces and results with resources that are better than Bilic started with last September.

You could also say 43m on a squad which lacks quality in defence, midfield and upfront is a waste of opportunity. Dowling should be paid to get the most from the resources we have and it's clear we didn't by the awful team we've assembled which are wholly unprepared for the premier league and more importantly for me have zero character to go down fighting.  Dowling has failed and so have Bilic and Allardyce as well as the players
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: GREGMT on February 03, 2021, 01:25:02 PM
You could also say 43m on a squad which lacks quality in defence, midfield and upfront is a waste of opportunity. Dowling should be paid to get the most from the resources we have and it's clear we didn't by the awful team we've assembled which are wholly unprepared for the premier league and more importantly for me have zero character to go down fighting.  Dowling has failed and so have Bilic and Allardyce as well as the players

It's not a Premier League budget!  How much did Dean Smith spend last year?

Allardyce sure as hell is struggling, picking renowned failures such as Livermore, Phillips, HRK, Grant when we have better options available.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on February 03, 2021, 02:07:04 PM
Sorry but that is non-sensical, how can it be judged as excellent? Yet ?
I did say "on paper" and given the standard of clubs the new signings came from. With any set of new signings nobody can conclusively say they were a success until they've had time to bed in, but I'm optimistic they will improve us. Why were so many other clubs after AMN? And who else in the Prem league got more done in this transfer window?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: hardtobeat on February 03, 2021, 02:16:00 PM
Dowling needs to be one of the first out of the door ! He hasn’t shown any sign of being able to plan for more than a six month term. To bring in Allardyce after Bilic shows a total lack of footballing knowledge and competence . Signings I would give a bit more leeway on but the going behind Bilics back to sign Kipre and sell Hegazi was unforgivable.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 03, 2021, 02:18:41 PM
Sorry but that is non-sensical, how can it be judged as excellent? Yet ?

Well its probably why Alex1 said "on paper" isn't it??

Edit: Just seen Alex' response but the point still remains.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: darbolina on February 03, 2021, 02:19:51 PM
It's not a Premier League budget!  How much did Dean Smith spend last year?

Allardyce sure as hell is struggling, picking renowned failures such as Livermore, Phillips, HRK, Grant when we have better options available.

Budget is a red herring. I compare us to Leeds, Fulham, Sheff Utd, Burnley and Brighton who all tap into the markets with a clear plan of how to build a team over a few years. We just don't seem to have a lucid plan to progress (Norwich have a plan to go down and keep coming up until they strengthen enough to stay up just as we did in the past). This is Dowling's fault - if this is not his role what is he doing as DoF - managing contracts, making the tea, dismantling the academy?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: leeiswba on February 03, 2021, 02:22:56 PM
It's ridiculous people are getting fixated about the Summer budget and how much we spent on each player.

£24m for Pereira & Grant = about right.
£19m for Diangana & Ajayi = about right.
FREE Ivanovic = dead right.

You win some / lose some.  What's clear is that Bilic was given nowhere near enough money.  But its gone now and time to look forwards.

The sole focus is on how Allardyce delivers improved performces and results with resources that are better than Bilic started with last September.

The problem I have is that they are only ‘right’ because they are British based. We could have used that money on more players and probably better than that lot if we had some kind of scouting network outside the uk

Probably get 3 players from the continent if you did enough homework all better than grant and for the same amount combined
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggies_24 on February 03, 2021, 02:40:35 PM
It's ridiculous people are getting fixated about the Summer budget and how much we spent on each player.

£24m for Pereira & Grant = about right.
£19m for Diangana & Ajayi = about right.
FREE Ivanovic = dead right.

You win some / lose some.  What's clear is that Bilic was given nowhere near enough money.  But its gone now and time to look forwards.

The sole focus is on how Allardyce delivers improved performces and results with resources that are better than Bilic started with last September.



We had a very tight budget which was made clear & we’ve gone & spent what 80% of that budget on 2 players who play in the same / similar position to each other (not even taking into account we also had Grosicki, Edwards & Robinson also on the books who play in that same position. Even if you take the money out of it it’s ludicrous you can only play with 1 left winger / wide forward why do we need 5.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: skyclad99 on February 03, 2021, 03:07:49 PM
Luke Dowlings track record is abysmal. i am not sure if this is because of the constraints he is working under or if he is just not the right person. He is symptomatic of the leadership at our club, means well generally but incompetent at the job.  it looks like he had his own agenda in the summer , buy cheap players with potential for profit, and the manager was not on board. I don't think Slaven covered himself in glory either.

That's an interesting comment, do you actually know what he has done?

My point is that recently when we have signed someone we have attributed him to either Dowling or Bilic. If he was good then it was definitely Slaven, and if he was bad it was definitely a Dowling signing. The same is going to happen with BS for sure.

I very much doubt that he has got free reign to sign who he wants, and as I understand it he sorts the deals out. I am actually of the opinion that Dowling will probably walk in the not too distant due to the restrictions that seem to be coming down from the owners.

I am not having a go at you, I am just wondering if you actually know what he has done to class him as abysmal? For me there seems to be a lot of assumptions about him.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 03, 2021, 03:13:13 PM
That's an interesting comment, do you actually know what he has done?

My point is that recently when we have signed someone we have attributed him to either Dowling or Bilic. If he was good then it was definitely Slaven, and if he was bad it was definitely a Dowling signing.
The same is going to happen with BS for sure.

I very much doubt that he has got free reign to sign who he wants, and as I understand it he sorts the deals out. I am actually of the opinion that Dowling will probably walk in the not too distant due to the restrictions that seem to be coming down from the owners.

I am not having a go at you, I am just wondering if you actually know what he has done to class him as abysmal? For me there seems to be a lot of assumptions about him.

I don't think that's true. I do think it's easy to delineate which signings are manager driven and which are Dowling driven. Ivanović and Grant were Bilić signings and the general consensus is they're poor buys.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Mikkyk on February 03, 2021, 03:16:54 PM
Even if we're not able to attribute certain signings to certain people (which I think we are but not the point) and we take the signings as a whole package, which it's fair to do for technical & sporting director, then I think it's a fail overall.

That failing can be, and should be, directed at Dowling.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: tex on February 03, 2021, 03:26:57 PM
Dowling is a symptom of a broken model that JP left us with. Lai seems to be fumbling for the right pieces to rebuild the JP castle. like any company, structure cannot make up for poor management. 
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on February 03, 2021, 04:40:00 PM
I don’t rate dowling, but I’m sure he wants to be successful and does his best. I don’t blame or praise him for all of the signings either. However I do think we can take a reasonable stab at who pushed for who.

Given the way most clubs operate now, I think you are always likely to get a blend of between manager signings and club signings and I don’t think you can avoid that. What you do need is for manager and club to understand each other’s position and communicate, discuss and compromise. Like employees would in most businesses.

However I just don’t see how Dowling is qualified to do probably the biggest and toughest job at the  club. 

As far as I can tell, 10 years ago he was a scout at a none league club. He then had scouting / recruitment positions at a number of clubs, never for particularly long, for a few years before landing a job as sporting director at Watford in 2014. Now I don’t know what that entailed, but I think that was around the time the owners seemed to be steering most things. He was there for three years, before getting sacked, then joined forest for 6 months before turning up here.

It seems like he had a job title on his cv and other clubs were sold by that. There is nothing really that suggests he has that much experience (and none successful) in pretty much overseeing every operation at a club. Scouting, transfers, managers, youth development etc.  It seems reasonable to suggest he didn’t really control scouting, transfers or managers at Watford as Pozzo clearly did it.

As I say, I’m sure he does his best and wants to be successful, but I don’t  see the credentials beyond the fact others gave him a go. 

I work with contracts and have a reasonable understanding of contract law, so I could get a player contract sorted at a football club. The PFA has standardised much of that anyway! Praising him for getting a deal done isn’t enough, he has to do far far more than that.




Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: hardtobeat on February 03, 2021, 04:53:56 PM
The more I think about Dowling the more questions I have . His getting rid of the likes of Harper , Leko ,Field , Edwards could have gone to but for an alternative signing  seems very shortsighted given our current circumstances . All of the above would be n asset in the Championship where teams are going to have to look increasingly to their own as it is going to be much harder for those below elite level to go shopping abroad .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: darbolina on February 03, 2021, 05:00:41 PM
The more I think about Dowling the more questions I have . His getting rid of the likes of Harper , Leko ,Field , Edwards could have gone to but for an alternative signing  seems very shortsighted given our current circumstances . All of the above would be n asset in the Championship where teams are going to have to look increasingly to their own as it is going to be much harder for those below elite level to go shopping abroad .

Yes, good point. The academy under Dowling seems to have died a death really. Very short sighted
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: GREGMT on February 03, 2021, 05:06:46 PM
The more I think about Dowling the more questions I have . His getting rid of the likes of Harper , Leko ,Field , Edwards could have gone to but for an alternative signing  seems very shortsighted given our current circumstances . All of the above would be n asset in the Championship where teams are going to have to look increasingly to their own as it is going to be much harder for those below elite level to go shopping abroad .

Maybe they are not good enough for the Premier League.  Why criticise recruiting players in January, don't understand that? 
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: skyclad99 on February 03, 2021, 05:21:00 PM
The more I think about Dowling the more questions I have . His getting rid of the likes of Harper , Leko ,Field , Edwards could have gone to but for an alternative signing  seems very shortsighted given our current circumstances . All of the above would be n asset in the Championship where teams are going to have to look increasingly to their own as it is going to be much harder for those below elite level to go shopping abroad .

Maybe he had to move them on because a) they are not good enough for the PL, and b) he had to free up the wages in order to recruit new players who were deemed better.

All good players but Leko struggled in the Championship with us, Field was injured and was in and out, and the other two may well be back with us when we are back in the Championship, and will hopefully gain match experience this year at someone else's expense. Good business.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on February 03, 2021, 05:26:33 PM
The academy staff had Rico Richards, Morgan Rogers and Louie Barry coming through, all had been at the club since about 8 years old.

They academy has been excited by players before, but nothing like they were for those three from the little insight I have in to our youth set up. Yet now all the staff are gone, we sold Rogers (who reportedly it’s suggested could have been tempted to stay) and Barry went to join the staff who he knew.

Hard to blame Dowling completely but it’s something else that seems like it’s fallen apart under his watch.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: skyclad99 on February 03, 2021, 05:33:13 PM
The academy staff had Rico Richards, Morgan Rogers and Louie Barry coming through, all had been at the club since about 8 years old.

They academy has been excited by players before, but nothing like they were for those three from the little insight I have in to our youth set up. Yet now all the staff are gone, we sold Rogers (who reportedly it’s suggested could have been tempted to stay) and Barry went to join the staff who he knew.

Hard to blame Dowling completely but it’s something else that seems like it’s fallen apart under his watch.

We may as well blame him for the long queues at half time for the tea/coffee as well........
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on February 03, 2021, 05:39:44 PM
We may as well blame him for the long queues at half time for the tea/coffee as well........

Yeah let’s consider one element which should be a major part of his remit, with another that shouldn’t  :-\.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: hardtobeat on February 03, 2021, 05:49:05 PM
Maybe they are not good enough for the Premier League.  Why criticise recruiting players in January, don't understand that?
Probably not good enough for Prem but they would be welcome next season in the championship . Listen to Fields interview and it comes across as he has no future here whatever division we are in . If we wanted him back why put an option to buy clause in the loan deal.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Adder on February 03, 2021, 06:14:55 PM
The academy staff had Rico Richards, Morgan Rogers and Louie Barry coming through, all had been at the club since about 8 years old.

They academy has been excited by players before, but nothing like they were for those three from the little insight I have in to our youth set up. Yet now all the staff are gone, we sold Rogers (who reportedly it’s suggested could have been tempted to stay) and Barry went to join the staff who he knew.

Hard to blame Dowling completely but it’s something else that seems like it’s fallen apart under his watch.
Barry went to Barcelona not straight to Villa. 'Rogers could have been tempted to stay' is a bit vague and I'm sure we'd have tried to get him to stay....and we've successfully got Richards to stay. Maybe it was time for our academy staff to have a bit of an overhaul anyway - Dowling recruited Richard Stevens from Coventry who is highly rated - James Maddison and Callum Wilson two of the players that went through that academy.  It'll be a few years yet before we can judge what the new team have brought to us.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SmethDan on February 03, 2021, 06:18:56 PM
We may as well blame him for the long queues at half time for the tea/coffee as well........

Tea and coffee are overrated as half time beverages in my opinion and I am happy to report that I haven't had to queue for a beer from my fridge once this season. I categorically refuse to give Dowling any credit for this though  ;D .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on February 03, 2021, 06:47:47 PM
Barry went to Barcelona not straight to Villa. 'Rogers could have been tempted to stay' is a bit vague and I'm sure we'd have tried to get him to stay....and we've successfully got Richards to stay. Maybe it was time for our academy staff to have a bit of an overhaul anyway - Dowling recruited Richard Stevens from Coventry who is highly rated - James Maddison and Callum Wilson two of the players that went through that academy.  It'll be a few years yet before we can judge what the new team have brought to us.

I know it will be a few years, but the academy was one area that did seem to be getting better and better. So to date Dowlings has precided over a return to less certain waters. I said it’s tough to judge and I may be being a bit harsh, but its hardly a tick next to him. As I said in a prior post, he hasn’t got any real experience in that area it seems although. He mate not need it if he makes smart decisions (like Richard Steven may be).

Also in terms of Barry, the club thought he would end up at Villa all along. I appreciate you don’t have to take my word on that, but I heard it direct from a young coach who coached both Barry and Rogers.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SmethDan on February 03, 2021, 07:03:09 PM
....... in terms of Barry, the club thought he would end up at Villa all along. I appreciate you don’t have to take my word on that, but I heard it direct from a young coach who coached both Barry and Rogers.

From what I've been told by a couple of his mates his dad 'may' have been expecting it too..... I'll leave it there ;) .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on February 03, 2021, 07:36:10 PM
We may as well blame him for the long queues at half time for the tea/coffee as well........

Johnny Cash isn't wrlng about the academy point though is he, Dowling's changes did lead to a number of our top academy staff leaving. That's not a guess, it's out in the open and has been written about extensively by the local press.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Tony Goddens Gloves on February 03, 2021, 07:44:43 PM
Down to him why all the academy staff buggered off to Vile
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on February 03, 2021, 08:57:05 PM
Yes forgotten under his bizarre deals is the fact hes driven the entire academy away. That will take a while to rebuild. Hes cost us years.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Adder on February 03, 2021, 09:17:19 PM
OK so what's the proof here, do we know the facts ?

An alternative scenario to Dowling driving them out is that Villa under their new owners who are mega rich and have deep pockets as their player spending demonstrates. It's just a possibility that Villa will have looked at Harrison and Hopcroft and lured them away with the sort of money they were never going to get with us....and after 12 years with us they may have felt it was 'time for a change'.

I don't know the truth on this but we have recruited an academy manager with a good past record and reputation to replace Harrison.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on February 03, 2021, 10:22:53 PM
We know from several local journalists that new stricter rules were brought in which saw the academy separated from the first team, both in terms of mingling at lunch times and car parking. We know the rationalle for this was that we were unusual as a club in allowing this practice to happen and Dowling (among others) felt this was poor practice. We know that the parking issue in particular caused consternation with academy staff as it was not just the players who were given new restrictions - it was the academy staff as well. We then know that in the proceeding few months, 3 or 4 of the main people all upped and left with the academy changes quoted by different journalists.

The journos could be wrong/making it up (there is no proof of this at all) or it could have all been a coincidence, but it would be naive to just dismiss it when the odds are that these changes were the precursor for the academy exodus.

In fairness, many journos did say that we were unusual in allowing players to mix and this wasn't a radical change as such, but you feel it could have been handled better and there doesn't seem a good reason to **** off a number of your good academy staff.

As you say, the replacement from Cov has a good pedigree and could be the best thing to happen to the academy, but that doesn't stop it being the case that Dowling and the academy did have a disagreement which in all likelihood lead to the big changes behind the scenes.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on February 03, 2021, 10:35:22 PM
It was in all the papers that Dowling wanted the Academy ran very differenly from the way it had been run years prior. Dowling made it clear it was his way or the highway so the old academy staff knew they were incompatible and so they quit.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: paulosull on February 03, 2021, 10:35:39 PM
Dowling would of been better of loaning out HRK, Sawyers, Phillips and Livermore than sending out our younger player's.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Adder on February 04, 2021, 08:20:56 AM
We know from several local journalists that new stricter rules were brought in which saw the academy separated from the first team, both in terms of mingling at lunch times and car parking. We know the rationalle for this was that we were unusual as a club in allowing this practice to happen and Dowling (among others) felt this was poor practice. We know that the parking issue in particular caused consternation with academy staff as it was not just the players who were given new restrictions - it was the academy staff as well. We then know that in the proceeding few months, 3 or 4 of the main people all upped and left with the academy changes quoted by different journalists.

The journos could be wrong/making it up (there is no proof of this at all) or it could have all been a coincidence, but it would be naive to just dismiss it when the odds are that these changes were the precursor for the academy exodus.

In fairness, many journos did say that we were unusual in allowing players to mix and this wasn't a radical change as such, but you feel it could have been handled better and there doesn't seem a good reason to p*** off a number of your good academy staff.

As you say, the replacement from Cov has a good pedigree and could be the best thing to happen to the academy, but that doesn't stop it being the case that Dowling and the academy did have a disagreement which in all likelihood lead to the big changes behind the scenes.
OK I'll concede that there does seem to have been an element of Dowling peeing off the academy staff with the changes. Villa probably sensed this and head-hunted Harrison and Hopcroft, no doubt offering substantially more money also. The idea that we've set the academy back years as someone has mentioned is finger in the air stuff. We could see benefits from a change of ideas under new academy management.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on February 04, 2021, 09:00:59 AM
If key academy staff left because of changes in car park arrangements, just think how our players must feel when the head coach constantly tells them they're not good enough.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: hardtobeat on February 04, 2021, 09:18:35 AM
OK I'll concede that there does seem to have been an element of Dowling peeing off the academy staff with the changes. Villa probably sensed this and head-hunted Harrison and Hopcroft, no doubt offering substantially more money also. The idea that we've set the academy back years as someone has mentioned is finger in the air stuff. We could see benefits from a change of ideas under new academy management.
Not if we continue to not give the younger players a chance in the first team whatever division nor if we continue to cash in on them at the earliest available opportunity.
Fields interview is very revealing in that somebody that is an Albion fan feels he needs a permanent move away from the club with at least 7 players in front of him of whom at least 3 aren’t our players and are highly unlikely ever to be so
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: skyclad99 on February 04, 2021, 09:48:38 AM
Johnny Cash isn't wrlng about the academy point though is he, Dowling's changes did lead to a number of our top academy staff leaving. That's not a guess, it's out in the open and has been written about extensively by the local press.

Correct, Dowling did change the academy set up and several staff left. In the interview with Mark Harrison he confirms that he was poached by the Villa 'Band of Brothers' and he was sold 'a vision'. Lets face it, after 13 years at our place, there was no vision, or no plan by the looks of it, so he welcomed the change. Others also left, and reference is made to the changes at the Academy.

It would be good to have the full picture here. Perhaps Dowling identified a lack of discipline or some other issue that was potentially affecting development. We may never know but sometimes when changes are made, some folk look elsewhere because they don't like being managed, or taken out of their 'comfort zone'. Dowling introduced a clear division between the first team and the u/23s etc. by separating them, which was not popular. Familiarity breeds contempt and it may be that Dowling saw that. It is interesting to note that the staff who left our academy seem to have gone onto bigger and better things.

Sometimes change is good, only time will tell whether Dowling's overhaul of the Academy set up worked.

He does need to look at the coffee and tea facilities at half time though..... ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Adder on February 04, 2021, 11:56:54 AM
Not if we continue to not give the younger players a chance in the first team whatever division nor if we continue to cash in on them at the earliest available opportunity.
Fields interview is very revealing in that somebody that is an Albion fan feels he needs a permanent move away from the club with at least 7 players in front of him of whom at least 3 aren’t our players and are highly unlikely ever to be so
I agree certain players should have had more opportunities and weren't any worse than the people they would have been replacing. That applies to Field and Edwards anyway. As far as cashing in on them at the earliest goes, I'm not sure if you are talking Barry and Rogers but there will always be that moment where we hope players will sign a pro contract but we are powerless if they choose to look elsewhere. It would obviously help with retaining players if they were confident they'd be given opportunities but even then the grass is greener (and more money) when Barcelona or Man City come knocking.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SmethDan on February 04, 2021, 12:51:46 PM
No problem with the academy set up at the training ground being redrawn but then I wasn't part of the staff and it had no impact on me. I do remember seeing an interview with Darren Fletcher though.

He was surprised to see our youth set up mingling so openly with the first team squad in the canteen and treatment room etc. At Utd being near the first team squad was seen as a privilege to be earned rather than an entitlement.

Maybe that's where we've had a drop off from ages 16 to 20. A sense of entitlement and an 'I've made it' attitude when in real terms they've largely done the square root  of f' all.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on February 07, 2021, 05:26:18 PM
Really bothers me Dowling will probably still be in a job in the Summer and he'll have a major say in our next manager .
Back to cheap lower league signings made to fit rather than players the manager actaully wants .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: FallOutBoy on February 07, 2021, 05:49:23 PM
Really bothers me Dowling will probably still be in a job in the Summer and he'll have a major say in our next manager .
Back to cheap lower league signings made to fit rather than players the manager actually wants .

Yeah, whoever has recommended the targets, this guy has presided over the assembly of one of the worst Albion squads in top-flight history, and probably one of the worst the the 25 years I've been going. I thought we'd be short on quality this season, but this lot have been turgid, slow, and lazy.

He was about to get the sack from Forest when we signed him. Says it all really.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: ex coseley kid on February 07, 2021, 05:55:33 PM
I'd send a letter saying he needs to go but it would probably be his letter opener that got to it first.

He's an absolute joke and arguably of greater concern to our future than Lai - who let's face it has been dependent on this clown's 'expertise'.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SirTonyM on February 07, 2021, 05:55:43 PM
Really bothers me Dowling will probably still be in a job in the Summer and he'll have a major say in our next manager .
Back to cheap lower league signings made to fit rather than players the manager actaully wants .

Didn’t Cloughie say “if the manager gets the sack, the bloke who appointed him should go too”....we would need a revolving door at the Albion ;)
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggies_24 on February 07, 2021, 06:00:32 PM
When Allardyce gets the chop or walks Dowling should also be shown the door, infact he should be handed his P45 now so we can get someone through the door to put the necessary system in place for the summers rebuild.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on February 07, 2021, 06:05:53 PM
When Allardyce gets the chop or walks Dowling should also be shown the door, infact he should be handed his P45 now so we can get someone through the door to put the necessary system in place for the summers rebuild.

Well Lai did sack Hammond and William's so it wouldn't surprise me to see him sack Sam and Luke at the same time
Enter Jenkins once more...
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: beechyboy90 on February 07, 2021, 06:06:23 PM
He has to go his decisions have been poor.

He signed peltier who resigned peltier.
He signed kipre when manager didnt want him.
He signed button when manager didnt want him.
He has given grant a 6 year deal.
He sacked billic after a big point at man city when players were very much playing for him.
He appointed alladyce who has been a terrible appointment.
He went through both summer and winter windows without signing a right back. We didnt sign a striker until Jan.

New dof and some long term planning is very much needed
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: ex coseley kid on February 07, 2021, 06:10:02 PM
When Allardyce gets the chop or walks Dowling should also be shown the door, infact he should be handed his P45 now so we can get someone through the door to put the necessary system in place for the summers rebuild.

Agreed, both need to happen now - in fact I think team morale would actually lift!
We could get the NO manager bounce.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on February 07, 2021, 06:34:28 PM
We need a techical director who works with a manager , not one signing players who might be ok or one that can attack but not defend ( Furlong ) .
Lai  is stuck with us so he might as well invest decent money in this to build a stucture going forward.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on February 07, 2021, 06:45:26 PM
We need a techical director who works with a manager , not one signing players who might be ok or one that can attack but not defend ( Furlong ) .
Lai stuck with us so he might as well invest decent money in this to build a stucture going forward.

I’m with you on that one Dex.

I’ve seen Luke Dowling’s abilities as a technical director and he isn’t what we need, especially not in the long-term. That being said, the shadow cast by the marvellous Dan Ashworth needs to be vanquished. WBA need to really look who’s out there instead of trying to replicate Dan Ashworth and coming up short over and over again. The club needs to find a new identity in terms of it being operated successfully under a new technical director with fresh ideas.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on February 07, 2021, 06:50:31 PM
I’m with you on that one Dex.

I’ve seen Luke Dowling’s abilities as a technical director and he isn’t what we need, especially not in the long-term. That being said, the shadow cast by the marvellous Dan Ashworth needs to be vanquished. WBA need to really look who’s out there instead of trying to replicate Dan Ashworth and coming up short over and over again. The club needs to find a new identity in terms of it being operated successfully with a new technical director with fresh ideas.
Utter mess mate , you look back at Furlong who I don't dislike and Sawyers ( i believe that was Dowling ) .
Add Grosiki and Peltier to that , there will be more including handing out long contracts to Livermore and co .
Where was Bilic's say on this ? .
Theres just no future planning on this.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on February 07, 2021, 06:54:45 PM
Dowlings strategy seems to be throw enough rubbish at the wall and some of it will stick. In this case it slid right off.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: hardtobeat on February 07, 2021, 06:57:35 PM
I agree Dowling needs replacing but just whos left to identify and appoint his successor? From the outside it looks as though Dowling is the only active member up of the higher ups.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on February 07, 2021, 07:03:08 PM
I agree Dowling needs replacing but just whos left to identify and appoint his successor? From the outside it looks as though Dowling is the only active member up of the higher ups.
Thats a good point , hopefully they take these dead rubber months to consult the right people .
With our finances having a DOF not interested in overseas markets is beyond stupid .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on February 07, 2021, 07:13:01 PM
Thats a good point , hopefully they take these dead rubber months to consult the right people .
With our finances having a DOF not interested in overseas markets is beyond stupid .


Wouldn't hold your breath, the last specialist Lai brought in wasn't a raging succcess
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on February 07, 2021, 07:41:07 PM

Wouldn't hold your breath, the last specialist Lai brought in wasn't a raging succcess
Hence why i said take these next few months ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Tony Goddens Gloves on February 07, 2021, 07:48:08 PM
Who is “they” and what qualifications do they have to appoint a great dof “they” are the problem so what is the solution
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on February 07, 2021, 08:35:07 PM
Hence why i said take these next few months ;D

I wouldn't know GL if I met him in the street, but from his profile in the UK media, he doesn't appear to have a great deal of knowledge about either the UK or European football industry.
Nor, for that matter, do his lieutenants.
So I'm not sure a few months would make much difference.


IMO, as others have said, Lai needs advice from somebody who knows the ropes, & that's likely to be Mark Jenkins.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on February 07, 2021, 09:17:07 PM
I wouldn't know GL if I met him in the street, but from his profile in the UK media, he doesn't appear to have a great deal of knowledge about either the UK or European football industry.
Nor, for that matter, do his lieutenants.
So I'm not sure a few months would make much difference.


IMO, as others have said, Lai needs advice from somebody who knows the ropes, & that's likely to be Mark Jenkins.
I'm not sure Jenkins is the answer either , unless he's cutting his losses Lai needs to get hands on and rebuild this .
This Ken who runs it day to day , sit back and look at other clubs here and in Europe .All we are is a loop at the minute which ends in old school managers then goes again and so on.
Dowlings had more than his fair go imo .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on February 07, 2021, 09:34:26 PM
I'm not sure Jenkins is the answer either , unless he's cutting his losses Lai needs to get hands on and rebuild this .
This Ken who runs it day to day , sit back and look at other clubs here and in Europe .All we are is a loop at the minute which ends in old school managers then goes again and so on.

I don't think Lai or any of his team have the experience to be "hands on".

Standaman wrote an interesting scenario on the way forward recently which makes a lot of sense to me, but it's based on the assumption that Lai has the freedom to make some choices.

What we don't know, is the pressure & scrutiny that Lai is under in China.

The sensible option would be to re-group & work to increase the value of the club over a period of time, but the sacking of SB & introduction of SA smacks of desperation to me, & I'm really not sure where that takes us.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on February 07, 2021, 10:19:00 PM
I don't think Lai or any of his team have the experience to be "hands on".

Standaman wrote an interesting scenario on the way forward recently which makes a lot of sense to me, but it's based on the assumption that Lai has the freedom to make some choices.

What we don't know, is the pressure & scrutiny that Lai is under in China.

The sensible option would be to re-group & work to increase the value of the club over a period of time, but the sacking of SB & introduction of SA smacks of desperation to me, & I'm really not sure where that takes us.
It takes you nowhere John unless Lai and co are ready to take a hit and sell up .
Again while I'm not suggesting Lai , Ken or even Jenkins take charge and push us in a new direction I would suggest they look into finding a football specialist if they are not selling up .
One bad experience shouldn't put them off and seeing as we are nearly down and its only Feb there is plenty of time to do this . Dowling has wasted plenty of cash on poor players and handed out contracts to players who should have been phased out or moved on , instead we've ended up with a joke of a season recruitment wise which again lowers the value of the club .
All that said lets not kid ourselves as its fairly clear they want out , a very unhappy marriage right now .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WorcsWBA on February 07, 2021, 11:02:33 PM
IMO, as others have said, Lai needs advice from somebody who knows the ropes, & that's likely to be Mark Jenkins.
I wouldn't want Jenkins back for a third time and I don't think he's want to come anyway. Was Jenkins here when Dowling was brought in, because he has some culpability too if so?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on February 07, 2021, 11:19:51 PM
Utter mess mate , you look back at Furlong who I don't dislike and Sawyers ( i believe that was Dowling ) .
Add Grosiki and Peltier to that , there will be more including handing out long contracts to Livermore and co .
Where was Bilic's say on this ? .
Theres just no future planning on this.

Agreed Dex.

Guochan Lai, Li Piyue, Xu Ke and Luke Dowling = USELESS
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SmethDan on February 08, 2021, 12:36:53 PM
Must be a tough job working for a club who've turned Barcelona's model of recruitment on it's head by admitting to selling clubs up front that we don't have the money to pay them before a player's actually signed.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on February 08, 2021, 03:17:38 PM
I think the Austin deal is worth a look , again stand to be corrected . I believe Dowling led this one but Bilic Ok'd it after speaking to people who had worked with Charlie .
First of all I enjoyed Austin's character while with us , no doubt he tried his best and didn't come here to sit on his backside .
We signed him knowing he had little pace and would only be of real use for a crossing side , well one thing we didn't really do under Bilic was cross balls into the box . He certainly wasn't going to keep up with Diang , Phillips or Edwards and looking the other way he wasn't the sort to hold a ball up .
So all in all we signed Austin on good money when he didn't really fit the way Bilic played , with the best will his legs had gone for the Premier League if we got there and by all accounts he got a decent boost in wages when we went up .
Thats a good example of why the majority of our transfers have failed and as if I suspect its Dowling led then he should be gone .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Standaman on February 09, 2021, 09:39:59 AM
I picked up an interesting and somewhat enlightening snippet from Joe Masi's podcast. You may question Masi's insight but whatever he does put out there is generally well sourced and he doesn't take flyers on bits of ill-informed gossip.

His understanding of how recruitment works is that the Head Coach gives Dowling a list of players and it is Dowling's job to get the players. If for whatever reason he can't get a player on the list then it is down to Dowling to suggest an alternative . To get further insight Masi has tried to get an interview with Ian Pearce Albion's head of recruitment but apparently Pearce does not do media.

I am fairly certain this is how Pulis worked with Hammond. Equally it kind of makes sense of  our recruitment across the last couple of seasons.

It is wrong on many levels. Why is it like this? I'm not sure but I suspect it goes back to the ownership and what they inherited from the Pulis era and was reinforced by Williams. It might and should have changed under Jenkins but maybe there were other fires to put out and without the ability to do something else Head Coach led recruitment is the default.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiebof on February 09, 2021, 10:41:44 AM
I picked up an interesting and somewhat enlightening snippet from Joe Masi's podcast. You may question Masi's insight but whatever he does put out there is generally well sourced and he doesn't take flyers on bits of ill-informed gossip.

His understanding of how recruitment works is that the Head Coach gives Dowling a list of players and it is Dowling's job to get the players. If for whatever reason he can't get a player on the list then it is down to Dowling to suggest an alternative . To get further insight Masi has tried to get an interview with Ian Pearce Albion's head of recruitment but apparently Pearce does not do media.

I am fairly certain this is how Pulis worked with Hammond. Equally it kind of makes sense of the our recruitment across the last couple of seasons.

It is wrong on many levels. Why is it like this? I'm not sure but I suspect it goes back to the ownership and what they inherited from the Pulis era and was reinforced by Williams. It might and should have changed under Jenkins but maybe there were other fires to put out and without the ability to do something else Head Coach led recruitment is the default.

If true it's concerning but equally, makes sense looking at our transfer activity.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 09, 2021, 11:26:55 AM
I picked up an interesting and somewhat enlightening snippet from Joe Masi's podcast. You may question Masi's insight but whatever he does put out there is generally well sourced and he doesn't take flyers on bits of ill-informed gossip.

His understanding of how recruitment works is that the Head Coach gives Dowling a list of players and it is Dowling's job to get the players. If for whatever reason he can't get a player on the list then it is down to Dowling to suggest an alternative . To get further insight Masi has tried to get an interview with Ian Pearce Albion's head of recruitment but apparently Pearce does not do media.

I am fairly certain this is how Pulis worked with Hammond. Equally it kind of makes sense of  our recruitment across the last couple of seasons.

It is wrong on many levels. Why is it like this? I'm not sure but I suspect it goes back to the ownership and what they inherited from the Pulis era and was reinforced by Williams. It might and should have changed under Jenkins but maybe there were other fires to put out and without the ability to do something else Head Coach led recruitment is the default.

I have to say Stan I thought this was obviously the case and didn't really need confirmation. Dowling isn't capable of a more traditional technical director/head coach set up imo.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: seteefeet on February 09, 2021, 11:35:52 AM
I picked up an interesting and somewhat enlightening snippet from Joe Masi's podcast. You may question Masi's insight but whatever he does put out there is generally well sourced and he doesn't take flyers on bits of ill-informed gossip.

His understanding of how recruitment works is that the Head Coach gives Dowling a list of players and it is Dowling's job to get the players. If for whatever reason he can't get a player on the list then it is down to Dowling to suggest an alternative . To get further insight Masi has tried to get an interview with Ian Pearce Albion's head of recruitment but apparently Pearce does not do media.

I am fairly certain this is how Pulis worked with Hammond. Equally it kind of makes sense of the our recruitment across the last couple of seasons.

It is wrong on many levels. Why is it like this? I'm not sure but I suspect it goes back to the ownership and what they inherited from the Pulis era and was reinforced by Williams. It might and should have changed under Jenkins but maybe there were other fires to put out and without the ability to do something else Head Coach led recruitment is the default.
Who should it be then, the coach or the DoF? Surely a collaborative approach is the way to go.

If the coach has autonomy and requests players that we can't afford (Watkins), or don't want to come (Robinson), then where do we go? He would have to spend so much time drawing up his list of alternatives to alternatives etc. he would have no time for the players he already has.

If the DoF has autonomy then the coach will be constantly outraged by decisions made "over his head" and players he didn't want (Grosicki / Kipre)

The two most prominent examples of both this season:
Bilic held out for Grant despite him being over-priced and ultimately not suited to our style.
Hegazi sold without Bilic's knowledge.

What we need is a clear plan and structure, where the coach and DoF work as a team, they are on the same side after all.
We need DoF with a clear philosophy, who recruits accordingly whilst the coach has to become interchangeable as, if we do badly he will be sacked, if we do well he could be poached. The only way we have a manager long term is if we become incredibly mediocre, so we need a system that allows us to change coach with minimum disruption. It's all a bit "Brentford" on the face of it, but, one crucial part that is missing for them is that they haven't tried it in the Premier League.......yet.

To end on a positive though, next season is the optimum time to change. We have a manager out of contract, we have maximum parachute payments, we have saleable, but replaceable, assets and the nucleus of a squad that has achieved promotion before. Just get a competent, forward thinking DoF and the sky's the limit.  :D

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on February 09, 2021, 11:37:47 AM
Kipre , Grosicki and Zohore alternatives then if true and appalling ones to in terms of Bilic wouldn't touch two of them .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: wodenson46 on February 09, 2021, 12:19:44 PM
A cooperation between professional people should be possible but we all know that when it comes down to football opinions it will be difficult more often than easy, one has to have the final say, surely, and make the decision on who and what and how. For me it ought to be the head coach. Obviously that is not the case, but in the event of the major disaster, it seems to be the coach that most often carries the can. Oh and if the situation is the case as Masi describes, what is the point of 'head of recruitment' ? or is he just the bean counting management stooge that seems to proliferate in most unsuccessful business operations. You know, the guy that causes most problems, gets the least flak and seems to survive under the radar even when the dirty stuff hits the rotating mechanical stuff, and none of sticks to him. Pearson 'doesn't do media' indeed! He should be forced to do media or forced out. If he is 'head' of recruitment then he has a lot to answer for. Get him up there, the Purdey bolt action Safari's are loaded and ready to go.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Standaman on February 09, 2021, 01:03:23 PM
If I was designing this with a blank sheet of paper with nobody in situ I would start with Director of Football. They build everything around a basic style template the club's budget and it's short to medium term objectives.

In terms of recruitment it is wholly in the DoF's court. They run the recruitment team of scouts and analysts that work to the style template compile lists of alternatives targets. They also manage the pathways to the first team for academy graduates.

The DoF also hires the Head Coach again they work to a basic style template so their style is compatible with the players on the books and the likely recruits. The Head Coach works with the squad they have a role in recruitment but is largely restricted to assessing the existing players. The dialogue is largely about the positions and roles that need strengthening not the who.

Ultimately if a player needs to be sold because of financial or contractual reasons that is down to the DoF and this is not done "over the Coach's head" it isn't his call. 
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: stuvetti on February 09, 2021, 01:26:34 PM
If I was designing this with a blank sheet of paper with nobody in situ I would start with Director of Football. They build everything around a basic style template the club's budget and it's short to medium term objectives.

In terms of recruitment it is wholly in the DoF's court. They run the recruitment team of scouts and analysts that work to the style template compile lists of alternatives targets. They also manage the pathways to the first team for academy graduates.

The DoF also hires the Head Coach again they work to a basic style template so their style is compatible with the players on the books and the likely recruits. The Head Coach works with the squad they have a role in recruitment but is largely restricted to assessing the existing players. The dialogue is largely about the positions and roles that need strengthening not the who.

Ultimately if a player needs to be sold because of financial or contractual reasons that is down to the DoF and this is not done "over the Coach's head" it isn't his call.

Excellent contribution and really what we had in the days of Dan Ashworth. Peace recognised that if the Coach made all the decisions about selection and style of play, the next man in might possibly bin that and the financial consequences are then huge. If the incoming manager doesn't fancy the cohort of players he inherits there is then a "fire sale" and the costs of re-recruitment, which are then considerable.

We need to get back to that model, but as above it starts with a good DOF and a style of play that will endure.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 09, 2021, 01:28:32 PM
If I was designing this with a blank sheet of paper with nobody in situ I would start with Director of Football. They build everything around a basic style template the club's budget and it's short to medium term objectives.

In terms of recruitment it is wholly in the DoF's court. They run the recruitment team of scouts and analysts that work to the style template compile lists of alternatives targets. They also manage the pathways to the first team for academy graduates.

The DoF also hires the Head Coach again they work to a basic style template so their style is compatible with the players on the books and the likely recruits. The Head Coach works with the squad they have a role in recruitment but is largely restricted to assessing the existing players. The dialogue is largely about the positions and roles that need strengthening not the who.

Ultimately if a player needs to be sold because of financial or contractual reasons that is down to the DoF and this is not done "over the Coach's head" it isn't his call.
Exactly. In this instance though Stan, who identifies the DoF?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: wodenson46 on February 09, 2021, 02:08:06 PM
If I was designing this with a blank sheet of paper with nobody in situ I would start with Director of Football. They build everything around a basic style template the club's budget and it's short to medium term objectives.

In terms of recruitment it is wholly in the DoF's court. They run the recruitment team of scouts and analysts that work to the style template compile lists of alternatives targets. They also manage the pathways to the first team for academy graduates.

The DoF also hires the Head Coach again they work to a basic style template so their style is compatible with the players on the books and the likely recruits. The Head Coach works with the squad they have a role in recruitment but is largely restricted to assessing the existing players. The dialogue is largely about the positions and roles that need strengthening not the who.

Ultimately if a player needs to be sold because of financial or contractual reasons that is down to the DoF and this is not done "over the Coach's head" it isn't his call.

Straightforward common sense as usual Standaman Sir!

Except for one thing. Is it possible our beloved football club could ever contemplate arranging anything so relatively simple and workable, let alone get the right people in the right places.

Something similar must have been in place with Dan Ashworth and eventually uncle Roy for a while, but was under JP so was very limited, but good whilst it lasted. What you describe could be even better if the initial appointments were of the required standard, made by an interested and more than solvent ownership. The change we urgently need starts right at the top. Fancy a go?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: seteefeet on February 09, 2021, 02:25:35 PM
Exactly. In this instance though Stan, who identifies the DoF?
That is the million dollar question!
Would have been Jenkins but now should be Ken, I guess, but exactly what qualifications does he have to oversee such an appointment? Seems Dowling has found himself a very favourable position but doesn't have the intelligence to play it out.
The right way forward is to build around the DoF and, with the people above him being clueless, Dowling has the potential to build something around his role and make himself almost indispensable, yet instead he lurches from one disaster to another. That in itself suggests he's not the man for the job!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on February 09, 2021, 04:36:53 PM
The Director of Football ideally needs to be a 'football' man with a deep understanding of the game and the industry, and who has business management skills. Sorry if people are bored of me giving the example,  but Bayern Munich have got it spot on. (Rumminigge, Hoeness and and now Oliver Kahn). Their Directors of Football are all ex top footballers, with roots at the club, and who have business management experience. So they are able to assess football talent, understand the football recruitment market and have a business finance backround.

Ideally we'd have somebody like Bomber Brown, but sadly, like nearly all ex players, they don't go on to develop their business management skills.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SmethDan on February 09, 2021, 04:45:11 PM
The Director of Football ideally needs to be a 'football' man with a deep understanding of the game and the industry, and who has business management skills .......... Ideally we'd have somebody like Bomber Brown, but sadly, like nearly all ex players, they don't go on to develop their business management skills.

If any new DoF requires the opening skill set I think we can safely assume that Jonathan Greening is very firmly out of the running regardless of further training or whether he'd want the gig or not. Don't let him near the till ;D .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Standaman on February 09, 2021, 06:15:16 PM
As everyone is falling over themselves to point out the DoF is appointed by the CEO and the board.

Plainly there is a lack of confidence in the current ownership. There are two factors firstly ensuring the operating parameters are set and each role within the hierarchy has the right level of authority and autonomy. Secondly appointing the right person to the post of DOF.

To some extent the two issues are entwined. Without the right structures in place you won't find the right candidate for the role I wouldn't sign up to the current hotchpotch arrangement nor would a heavyweight DOF.

Finding the right candidate does not require those making the appointment to be steeped in football folklore. There are plenty of DOF's and while not having the public profile of Head Coaches they aren't exactly hidden. Albion even in the Championship is an attractive proposition maybe not for the Rangnick's of this world but for many other competent practitioners.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: EastYorksAlbion on February 09, 2021, 06:16:55 PM
I have thought for a while that alongside encouraging players to get their coaching  badges whilst still playing; that the more academic and better suited should be encouraged and helped to get qualifications and training perhaps a Business or Management degree, to channel them into the boardroom side of the game. That way the next generation of DoF are qualified academically whilst having the footballing knowledge to go with it.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: seteefeet on February 09, 2021, 06:33:50 PM
I have thought for a while that alongside encouraging players to get their coaching  badges whilst still playing; that the more academic and better suited should be encouraged and helped to get qualifications and training perhaps a Business or Management degree, to channel them into the boardroom side of the game. That way the next generation of DoF are qualified academically whilst having the footballing knowledge to go with it.
Give it Robson-Kanu then, can't be any worse than seeing him warm up on the hour mark.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 09, 2021, 06:55:47 PM
With our demise, it was Bilic and Dowling also Allardyce and Dowling.
Common denominator? I shall leave it for yourselves to decide.
Why can't Lai see it?

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 09, 2021, 07:08:17 PM
With our demise, it was Bilic and Dowling also Allardyce and Dowling.
Common denominator? I shall leave it for yourselves to decide.
Why can't Lai see it?

The common denominator is probably the budget. But it appears that none of the 4 mentioned in your post are good enough either, though I still have hopes for Allardyce now he's got the 4 players in.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on March 07, 2021, 04:06:50 PM
Hopefully packing his bags , more than played his part in this mess and several rubbish costly signings in the last few seasons .The thought of him sat with a new manager grinning makes me feel sick .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggies_24 on March 07, 2021, 04:11:49 PM
Just seen on Twitter the u18’s got spanked by Palace 7-1 yesterday & the U21’s are bottom of the league. Dowlings academy restructure is going well then.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on March 07, 2021, 04:19:00 PM
To think how much free reign we gave this man and look what he gave us back in return. I dont think his higherups have any clue who to replace him with though.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: paulosull on March 07, 2021, 04:19:54 PM
Has he gone yet, I see his predecessor is doing a stirring job at Celtic.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on March 07, 2021, 04:21:46 PM
To think how much free reign we gave this man and look what he gave us back in return. I dont think his higherups have any clue who to replace him with though.
Thats the biggest issue for me , they don't know where to turn . He still want's outing though .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Bilston Dan on March 07, 2021, 04:21:56 PM
To think how much free reign we gave this man and look what he gave us back in return. I dont think his higherups have any clue who to replace him with though.

I guess in essence we are back to square one aren't we? The way the club is run is a joke. Modern Football is rubbish  :D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on March 07, 2021, 04:23:27 PM
Thats the biggest issue for me , they don't know where to turn . He still want's outing though .

Absolutely. Not a football wise-head above him. Thats why we are in the doo-doo.

I guess in essence we are back to square one aren't we? The way the club is run is a joke. Modern Football is rubbish  :D


Seems that way sadly. They need to appoint someone who has got a clue about football, not more number crunchers.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: FallOutBoy on March 07, 2021, 05:33:54 PM
Has he improved the quality of the squad since he's been here? No, it's gone backwards.

With Bilic gone in January, did he provide the quality of signing necessary for a survival fight? No, they all came from Allardyce.

Since his changes to the Academy, have we improved any? No, we've gone backwards. At an alarming rate.

This man is part of the problem at the club, and we need a solution.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: lewisant on March 07, 2021, 06:46:42 PM
Has he improved the quality of the squad since he's been here? No, it's gone backwards.

With Bilic gone in January, did he provide the quality of signing necessary for a survival fight? No, they all came from Allardyce.

Since his changes to the Academy, have we improved any? No, we've gone backwards. At an alarming rate.

This man is part of the problem at the club, and we need a solution.

100% agree with this. And who is profiting from the Academy restrcuture - Villa.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: FallOutBoy on March 07, 2021, 06:50:59 PM
& arguably we're not even getting a return on investment by player sales

We got £1m from Leko, we'll probably get the same for Sam Field. Rodgers went to City for a decent fee. We've had fees for the likes of Tyler Roberts, Kemar Roofe, Chris Wood, etc that keep the academy in business.

The answer isn't getting rid of the position either, it's having a joined-up, long-term approach.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on March 07, 2021, 06:57:20 PM
We got £1m from Leko, we'll probably get the same for Sam Field. Rodgers went to City for a decent fee. We've had fees for the likes of Tyler Roberts, Kemar Roofe, Chris Wood, etc that keep the academy in business.

The answer isn't getting rid of the position either, it's having a joined-up, long-term approach.

When the academy was first set up, it was costing us £3 million a year (might be more than that now). I would doubt very much that we have broken even on the academy.

It's only here because Lai bought into the idea for his project in China.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it broken up if we get new owners.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Adder on March 07, 2021, 11:00:03 PM
It's about 2 or 3 years minimum and more like 5 or 6 before any valid judgement can be made regarding the academy restructure.

Don't forget we got about £15m for Berahino and about £3m for George Thorne to add to the players mentioned above.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on March 08, 2021, 08:39:03 AM
It's about 2 or 3 years minimum and more like 5 or 6 before any valid judgement can be made regarding the academy restructure.

Don't forget we got about £15m for Berahino and about £3m for George Thorne to add to the players mentioned above.

Personally, I would stay with the DoF & academy model, but I can also understand an argument for an experienced Manager overseeing a flatter footballing structure.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on March 08, 2021, 03:18:06 PM
Personally, I would stay with the DoF & academy model, but I can also understand an argument for an experienced Manager overseeing a flatter footballing structure.
No issue with staying with D.O.F structure , I just don't want a repeat of players bought in that the manager clearly won't touch like Kipre , Grosicki or Zohore .
There's line to cross and IMO Dowling has done that too many times .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on March 08, 2021, 03:55:29 PM
No issue with staying with D.O.F structure , I just don't want a repeat of players bought in that the manager clearly won't touch like Kipre , Grosicki or Zohore .
There's line to cross and IMO Dowling has done that too many times .
Plus the Hegazi loan deal !   Straw that broke the camels back that one !  (see what i did,   analogy apropos the situation)
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gerry m on March 08, 2021, 04:03:55 PM
No issue with staying with D.O.F structure , I just don't want a repeat of players bought in that the manager clearly won't touch like Kipre , Grosicki or Zohore .
There's line to cross and IMO Dowling has done that too many times .

Exactly Dexy. Sounds like 'I've got you these players so get on with it'.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on March 08, 2021, 04:09:21 PM
Exactly Dexy. Sounds like 'I've got you these players so get on with it'.

which is what Brentford do, its exactly that which warburton walked out over, if those are the terms under which you take the job on, its entirely reasonable and the basis for continuity IMO.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: stuvetti on March 08, 2021, 04:20:51 PM
It is hard to imagine anyone who could do a worse job.
The bulk of the close season expenditure was potentially £30m on Grady and Grant, plus Kipre, Button, Robinson,Ivanovic & Krovinovic (loan).
Add to that other recent purchases of Austin, Grosicki, Zohore, Sawyers who are all still on the books and guess what..... not a single one made the starting line up yesterday.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on March 08, 2021, 04:42:45 PM
which is what Brentford do, its exactly that which warburton walked out over, if those are the terms under which you take the job on, its entirely reasonable and the basis for continuity IMO.
The key to that is A. Buying players that fit the way the manager plays and B. Not buying players who are no better than what you already .
Those wages and fees plus Austin's wage as Dowling lead that deal would make your eyes water , we'll see very little return on any of them if at all .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on March 08, 2021, 04:44:26 PM
It is hard to imagine anyone who could do a worse job.
The bulk of the close season expenditure was potentially £30m on Grady and Grant, plus Kipre, Button, Robinson,Ivanovic & Krovinovic (loan).
Add to that other recent purchases of Austin, Grosicki, Zohore, Sawyers who are all still on the books and guess what..... not a single one made the starting line up yesterday.
Grant , Krov and Ivanovic were Bilic signing mate , point taken and agreed with on the rest .
How Dowling still has a job is beyond me .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on March 08, 2021, 04:45:56 PM
When the academy was first set up, it was costing us £3 million a year (might be more than that now). I would doubt very much that we have broken even on the academy.

It's only here because Lai bought into the idea for his project in China.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it broken up if we get new owners.

I dont believe it is quite that much.

When it was first set up the category structure wasnt in place.  When the academy categories were born, Cat 1 required investments of £2m per year, which was touted as a significant additional cost for many of those than wanted to be in that category.  I think its gone up to £2.5m now though.

The academy is probably washing its face at least, but its an area we obviously need to try and get more.

The compensation amounts are still a joke though. £2.5m per year minimum spend, 90% of the players that go through won't make it, but a decent kid who has spent 8 years in it can be snatched for £250k at 15. How does that add up? I don't understand why clubs aren't battering the FA to fix it.



Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SmethDan on March 08, 2021, 07:00:42 PM
It is hard to imagine anyone who could do a worse job........

McDoughnut in conjunction with Burton and later on Dolmio Man (whose real name escapes me) when Darren Moore took over full time spring immediately to mind. Didn't need to give it a moment's thought, sadly.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: hardtobeat on March 08, 2021, 07:35:37 PM
The key to that is A. Buying players that fit the way the manager plays and B. Not buying players who are no better than what you already .
Those wages and fees plus Austin's wage as Dowling lead that deal would make your eyes water , we'll see very little return on any of them if at all .
you may like to add a ‘C’  Don’t keep getting rid of managers for those of a different style as this leads to an increase in turnover of players .It also enables a club to play the same way throughout including academy/ age group teams , which should lead to a more beneficial use to the club of academy players !
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on March 08, 2021, 07:46:42 PM
you may like to add a ‘C’  Don’t keep getting rid of managers for those of a different style as this leads to an increase in turnover of players .It also enables a club to play the same way throughout including academy/ age group teams , which should lead to a more beneficial use to the club of academy players !
We don't think that far in front , last bloke tried that was Alan Buckley I think ! ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 08, 2021, 08:18:58 PM
McDoughnut in conjunction with Burton and later on Dolmio Man (whose real name escapes me) when Darren Moore took over full time spring immediately to mind. Didn't need to give it a moment's thought, sadly.

Giuliano Terraneo...  ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SmethDan on March 08, 2021, 09:58:09 PM
Giuliano Terraneo...  ;D

Bet you found that easier to type (or cut and paste) than you ever would to pronounce  ;D .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: hardtobeat on March 08, 2021, 10:02:24 PM
We don't think that far in front , last bloke tried that was Alan Buckley I think ! ;D
I Actually thought it was Giles era when we won the Youth Cup ,and that ends tonight’s history lesson !
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 08, 2021, 10:59:21 PM
Bet you found that easier to type (or cut and paste) than you ever would to pronounce  ;D .

I originally called him Gianluigi - the benefit of the modify button allowing me to correct the error of my ways  :D

I’m not sure it’s a name suited to my dulcet Black Country tones.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 09, 2021, 12:33:14 AM
Someone pointed out that of the signings Dowling and Bilić made in summer 2019, January 2020 and summer 2020 only Darnell Furlong, Connor Gallagher and Matheus Pereira is still involved in the first XI, in DF's case it appears this is solely because there is no alternative.

Absolutely damning.

Here's the hall of shame: Zohore, Austin, Sawyers, Ajayi, Grosicki, Al Habsi, Diangana, Krovinović, Willock, Robinson, Grant, Kipre, Button and Ivanović.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Mikkyk on March 09, 2021, 03:17:34 AM
Jesus.

And I thought the Varela/Samaras etc. summer would be the worst one I'd see in a long time.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on March 09, 2021, 05:30:44 AM
Someone pointed out that of the signings Dowling and Bilić made in summer 2019, January 2020 and summer 2020 only Darnell Furlong, Connor Gallagher and Matheus Pereira is still involved in the first XI, in DF's case it appears this is solely because there is no alternative.

Absolutely damning.

Here's the hall of shame: Zohore, Austin, Sawyers, Ajayi, Grosicki, Al Habsi, Diangana, Krovinović, Willock, Robinson, Grant, Kipre, Button and Ivanović.
You can go back a bit further and add some crackers under Moore , Murphy / Sakho/ Wes H / Montero .
These and the above from the Bilic era might not be all Dowling but as Technical Director he's shaped nothing over the last few seasons . We will now be stuck next season with an injury prone , unhappy Grady and Grant on big fees and wages who isnt a winger or a striker so the team will have to be made to fit to him . There's no forward thinking at all .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie38 on March 09, 2021, 06:23:49 AM
The sporting and technical director has the responsibility of holding and creating the clubs mindset for the years to come. You have three options in my opinion when it comes to player recruitment in football:

Loans and lots of them:Most of our business has been so poor through the summer transfer windows under Dowling that we have had no other option than to mindlessly stroll from window to window pleading with bigger clubs than ourselves to loan some of their cast offs. These players have neither the heart of care for the club as they are only here on a short term basis and for the most part they aren't good enough.

Signing the more experienced player :

I understand signing experienced players such as Snodgrass and even Ivanovic on paper as they are supposed to bring certain qualities you simply can't get from a 23 year old player playing in the league below or overseas. Another reason they are brought in is for their leadership and to rub off on the other players but again we have relied on this a little to much under Dowling. Giving Barry another contract last season was a mind boggling decision and let's be blunt about this Chris Brunt was here two years to many. Then we move onto last summer Ivanovic has been one big expensive disaster and snodgrass has been brought in to help hide some of Dowling and Billics mistakes last summer.

Third option is sign alot of players in their mid twenties thirsty to prove themselves and promote youth but only if its right to. Over the course of the last 5/6 years we have seen alot of youth come through who have either 1 not been good enough and we have kept them around for to long or 2 have been good enough but havent treated them properly. A good example of Dowling not treating the academy right is the well documented move Dowling made last summer to move the academy players to another part of the clubs training ground even making them train and work away from the first team. This is making alot of club staff feel low and unwanted I have that on good authority. Over the years we have brought through the likes of Saido Berahino, Nathan Ferguson, Dara OShea, Rekeem Harper, Sam Field, Kyle Edwards and we have a few promising youth players on the verge of making the cut it seems in Alex Palmer and Azaz who are having successful loans this season but Dowling doesn't treat youth with the credit and respect it deserves. Peace spent millions making a category A academy for the club to produce and then sell on its high talents for a high price but Dowling acts slow in getting these young promising players new deals or loans out to clubs to gain valuable experience and put themselves in the shop window.

Billic answered for his poor choices last summer it's about time Dowling did the same. Any decent owner or chairman would of pulled the trigger by now. For all the stick and criticism he gets peace would of sacked Dowling a good 12 months ago had he been here but our clueless board and club continue to employ a bloke who before we appointed was on the verge of being sacked by Nottingham forest only for us to come in and take him off their hands just days before they could sack him. If he isn't good enough for forest as big as they are let's face it they are a club who just about aims for the play offs in the second tier of English football then he isn't good enough for us. Sack him before the seasons out and get a new sporting and technical director in with a forward thinking plan and not somebody who just walks around in the dark from window to window signing dross.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 09, 2021, 08:21:14 AM
Someone pointed out that of the signings Dowling and Bilić made in summer 2019, January 2020 and summer 2020 only Darnell Furlong, Connor Gallagher and Matheus Pereira is still involved in the first XI, in DF's case it appears this is solely because there is no alternative.

Absolutely damning.

Here's the hall of shame: Zohore, Austin, Sawyers, Ajayi, Grosicki, Al Habsi, Diangana, Krovinović, Willock, Robinson, Grant, Kipre, Button and Ivanović.

Dexy beat me to it - throw in the likes of Murphy, Montero, Johansen and Sako to that list.

He cannot be trusted with the long term future of the club.

He should have gone following the sacking of Moore and the debacle that followed to appoint his successor
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WBA.R.K on March 09, 2021, 08:54:24 AM
Someone pointed out that of the signings Dowling and Bilić made in summer 2019, January 2020 and summer 2020 only Darnell Furlong, Connor Gallagher and Matheus Pereira is still involved in the first XI, in DF's case it appears this is solely because there is no alternative.

Absolutely damning.

Here's the hall of shame: Zohore, Austin, Sawyers, Ajayi, Grosicki, Al Habsi, Diangana, Krovinović, Willock, Robinson, Grant, Kipre, Button and Ivanović.

Harsh to include Ajayi there.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on March 09, 2021, 09:14:06 AM
At 1.3m or whatever yeah i would not be putting Ajayi in that list. More than good enough to get us bakc up. Would ok as a backup for the PL considering our financial limitations.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 09, 2021, 10:27:38 AM
The list is merely players not included in the starting XI for Newcastle. Ajayi has lost his place to OShea after the red card.

Let's face it if we're saying Ajayi is good enough for the Championship then so is Kipre and some of the signings aren't that bad...

But we aren't in the Championship,  yet.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on March 09, 2021, 10:43:07 AM
I genuinely do like the positivity on here. Mines gone so any good news is a pleasant surprise
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: stuvetti on March 09, 2021, 11:16:51 AM
Billic answered for his poor choices last summer it's about time Dowling did the same. Any decent owner or chairman would of pulled the trigger by now. For all the stick and criticism he gets peace would of sacked Dowling a good 12 months ago had he been here but our clueless board and club continue to employ a bloke who before we appointed was on the verge of being sacked by Nottingham forest only for us to come in and take him off their hands just days before they could sack him. If he isn't good enough for forest as big as they are let's face it they are a club who just about aims for the play offs in the second tier of English football then he isn't good enough for us. Sack him before the seasons out and get a new sporting and technical director in with a forward thinking plan and not somebody who just walks around in the dark from window to window signing dross.


Correct, but the problem is that they have left themselves in the situation where if they sack Dowling the board consists of Ken and errr?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on March 09, 2021, 12:07:29 PM
That's it. If they sack Dowling there's literally no one with any clue whatsoever left. They are almost dependent on him staying because he's the best for they have yet appointed which isnt saying a lot.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on March 09, 2021, 12:25:32 PM
That's it. If they sack Dowling there's literally no one with any clue whatsoever left. They are almost dependent on him stayujg because he's the best for they have yet appointed which is t saying a lot.

Quite a nice position he has got himself in there.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: smethwickw on March 09, 2021, 12:26:34 PM
I'm no fan of Dowling at all and feel he should be moved on ASAP. However looking down that list of players the majority were signed to get us out of the Champ which we achieved at the first attempt under Bilic. The real problem has been our summer recruitment. I'd say that the majority of fans were happy with the signings of Pereira, Diangana, Krov & Grant at the time. Even Robinson (I wouldn't have signed him but it helped get Burke off the books). Unfortunately we needed to add players with more top flight experience to these which is what Bilic kept saying all along.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on March 09, 2021, 12:28:29 PM
Quite a nice position he has got himself in there.

Agreed, employed by default because his superiors are completely useless.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie38 on March 09, 2021, 03:31:40 PM

Correct, but the problem is that they have left themselves in the situation where if they sack Dowling the board consists of Ken and errr?

Ken, Mark Miles, Lee Cooper, Ken, Simon King, Li Pyue.

None of which are football people. They would recruit a new technical director just as they did when Ashworth left when Burton left and when Hammond left.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on March 09, 2021, 04:35:14 PM
Ken, Mark Miles, Lee Cooper, Ken, Simon King, Li Pyue.

None of which are football people. They would recruit a new technical director just as they did when Ashworth left when Burton left and when Hammond left.

Starring, Mark Miles, Lee Cooper & Simon King,
sounds like the line up from a 1970's detective series.  with Ken and Li Puyue as the inscrutable enemies
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Hull Baggie on March 10, 2021, 08:38:04 AM
Starring, Mark Miles, Lee Cooper & Simon King,
sounds like the line up from a 1970's detective series.  with Ken and Li Puyue as the inscrutable enemies

The (Un)Professionals maybe?   :D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: zippyandbungle on March 10, 2021, 06:33:20 PM
Someone pointed out that of the signings Dowling and Bilić made in summer 2019, January 2020 and summer 2020 only Darnell Furlong, Connor Gallagher and Matheus Pereira is still involved in the first XI, in DF's case it appears this is solely because there is no alternative.

Absolutely damning.

Here's the hall of shame: Zohore, Austin, Sawyers, Ajayi, Grosicki, Al Habsi, Diangana, Krovinović, Willock, Robinson, Grant, Kipre, Button and Ivanović.

I expect a bit better from you here
Austin finished top scorer last season
Ajayi is more than competent as long as those around him are...and he cost 1.3m...that’s small even for a champ defender
Sawyers ...low cost, good in champ IF surrounded by legs
Grosiki....personality clash , it happens
Al habsi....was never signed to play as a regular
Diangana ,...previous manager vanity purchase, although had a good season last year and should recoup cost
Krov....I’d still have here
Robinson....now hers a thing, fast, can finish, 100% effort, I’ve never seen him have a bad game, played out of position all last season, until the last match, scores and assists.....clearly loves being here....BUT is always the fall guy in any personal/formation change
Grant....still to early
Kipre ...imo a very adequate defender .....doesn’t help when the manager publicly makes it clear he doesn’t want you
Button did alright when in, and maybe a factor in pushing butterfingers to improve
Ivaanovic...all clubs need a mascot ?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: MarkW on March 10, 2021, 07:13:33 PM
I expect a bit better from you here
Austin finished top scorer last season
Ajayi is more than competent as long as those around him are...and he cost 1.3m...that’s small even for a champ defender
Sawyers ...low cost, good in champ IF surrounded by legs
Grosiki....personality clash , it happens
Al habsi....was never signed to play as a regular
Diangana ,...previous manager vanity purchase, although had a good season last year and should recoup cost
Krov....I’d still have here
Robinson....now hers a thing, fast, can finish, 100% effort, I’ve never seen him have a bad game, played out of position all last season, until the last match, scores and assists.....clearly loves being here....BUT is always the fall guy in any personal/formation change
Grant....still to early
Kipre ...imo a very adequate defender .....doesn’t help when the manager publicly makes it clear he doesn’t want you
Button did alright when in, and maybe a factor in pushing butterfingers to improve
Ivaanovic...all clubs need a mascot ?

Except it's been widely reported Bilic didn't want to buy him - he thought we could loan him later in the window. It was Dowling who wanted a 'marquee signing' and so ended up buying him.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on March 13, 2021, 05:07:18 PM
The thought of this bloke rebuilding us next season is utterly frightning .
Do the decent thing and resign .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on March 13, 2021, 05:10:28 PM
The thought of this bloke rebuilding us next season is utterly frightning .
Do the decent thing and resign

He will resign alright. Resign Gibbs, HRK and co.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: lewisant on March 13, 2021, 05:12:36 PM
Yep, i want him gone. We've been severely mismanaged! This Bilic obsession of "getting the band back together" should never have been entertained once the budget was so restrained. I understand the Diangana and Robinson (a swap for Burke) deals but back Bilic with the Grant deal then getting rid of Bilic.

We now see these players warming the bench and Krov not even at the club.

Such poor management. If we were going to do what we did then Bilic should have gone last summer, with the relationship broken.

Dowling out!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on March 13, 2021, 05:14:57 PM
Desperate for Dowling to be sacked but I can't even begin to imagine who the clueless ones in charge would appoint next.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: costa blanca baggie on March 13, 2021, 05:44:48 PM
Are we allowed to discuss possible replacements? If so, do any of our learned friends know anything? There seems to be a few that understand the ‘double pivot' all of a sudden. 🤗
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on March 13, 2021, 07:21:19 PM
Just been reminded on Twitter this clown allowed 3 left sided players in Diang , Robinson and Grant to be signed in one window .You could argue Bilic tried to convert Grant to a lone forward but that for me makes it worse .
Out of his depth totally .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 13, 2021, 07:43:00 PM
I don’t trust the bloke to oversee our summer transfer window and next managerial appointment..

He should not remain in his job on the basis of Ken and Lai being naive and clueless.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on March 13, 2021, 07:45:17 PM
Just been reminded on Twitter this clown allowed 3 left sided players in Diang , Robinson and Grant to be signed in one window .You could argue Bilic tried to convert Grant to a lone forward but that for me makes it worse .
Out of his depth totally .

Nearly 30m guaranteed and more in bonuses!!! Mind boggling.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 13, 2021, 07:48:02 PM
I don’t trust the bloke to oversee our summer transfer window and next managerial appointment..

He should not remain in his job on the basis of Ken and Lai being naive and clueless.

As pointed out on Twitter by CL when someone responded to my suggestion of sacking Dowling that Ken didn't know enough to appoint a replacement we would just use a headhunter/agent to source his successor.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on March 13, 2021, 08:21:54 PM
Just been reminded on Twitter this clown allowed 3 left sided players in Diang , Robinson and Grant to be signed in one window .You could argue Bilic tried to convert Grant to a lone forward but that for me makes it worse .
Out of his depth totally .
Edit ....forgot Grosicki was at the club from the previous Winter window so make that 4 .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on March 13, 2021, 08:23:55 PM
4 left wide players, 3 attacking centre mids and not one bugger who could tackle. What a squad build that was.

The Bilic and Dowling combo was an utter, utter failure.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Aztech on March 13, 2021, 08:42:40 PM
4 left wide players, 3 attacking centre mids and not one bugger who could tackle. What a squad build that was.

The Bilic and Dowling combo was an utter, utter failure.

First time I have heard Promotion to the premier league being described as utter, utter failure.

Let’s hope we utterly fail again next season 😂
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on March 13, 2021, 08:44:14 PM
First time I have heard Promotion to the premier league being described as utter, utter failure.

Let’s hope we utterly fail again next season 😂

Who mentioned promotion? I'm clearly referring to the transfer aspect.

We were lucky to get promoted, Brentford bottled it. Obviously i'll take the promotion but lets not kid ourselves.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: smethwickw on March 14, 2021, 10:49:41 AM
Needs to go ASAP. The appointment of Big Sam has been a failure. Yokuslu aside the January business is looking very poor too.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 02, 2021, 12:08:44 AM
Was out and about Today so only saw on Twitter ( I think ) a complete list of every signing and loan signing since Dowling has been at the club .
Granted some were manager signings but dear me , the fee's / wages against value for money was eye opening . Some were totally non fitting of the style we played just to make it worse .
If Allardyce goes I can only hope Dowling is quickly gone too .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on May 02, 2021, 09:29:59 AM
Who mentioned promotion? I'm clearly referring to the transfer aspect.

We were lucky to get promoted, Brentford bottled it. Obviously i'll take the promotion but lets not kid ourselves.

We were the 2nd best team over 46 games. End of
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 02, 2021, 09:35:54 AM
We were the 2nd best team over 46 games. End of
Sorry mate thats the attitude that's got us in this mess further down the line in my view .
Wheels were falling off before we got up , for Dowling and Bilic to not see the midfield issue for example was a disgrace . Fell over the line and have barely been able to stand back up .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on May 02, 2021, 12:45:26 PM
We were the 2nd best team over 46 games. End of

That fact is undisputable if we look at it in black and white mate but from the restart we were absolutely pants let's be honest. Things went from bad to worse between Bilic and the board and then nothing changed in the summer, it was just an awful period for us as a club.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: zippyandbungle on May 02, 2021, 01:31:32 PM
Sorry mate thats the attitude that's got us in this mess further down the line in my view .
Wheels were falling off before we got up , for Dowling and Bilic to not see the midfield issue for example was a disgrace . Fell over the line and have barely been able to stand back up .
But if it’s factual then it’s not based on attitude?
I think we looked to shoot ourselves in the foot in the run in, but we won’t up.....1 year in to a 2 year target.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 02, 2021, 02:29:51 PM
But if it’s factual then it’s not based on attitude?
I think we looked to shoot ourselves in the foot in the run in, but we won’t up.....1 year in to a 2 year target.
The wheels were falling off mate , teams had figured out our midfield was weak and could easily be  out worked.
1 year target or 2 theres no excuse for not dealing with the obvious in front of you especially Dowling who had seen a lot of the players the year before .
Let's be real , we got up because Brentford blew at the final two games . Couldn't even beat a half bothered QPR at home !
For me I can accept him staying if Allardyce does but if not I'd prefer a new person with fresh ideas and a new start .
Matter of days until H.R.K gets a new contract ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SmethDan on May 02, 2021, 03:58:34 PM
I'm still trying to work out why we signed wide attacking players and then started the season playing with three central defenders doing little to strengthen what was playing in front of them.

If your central defensive partnership isn't strong enough you strengthen the central defensive pairing. You don't reduce the numbers in front of it, 'reinforce' it with ageing legs and invite the opposition onto an area of perceived weakness.

That's like investing in triple glazed French windows for better insulation and leaving them open when it's cold, or fitting an intruder light and security camera because you're wary of burglaries and not plugging them in.

I probably need to stop thinking about it because it bugs the excrement out of me. Think it's time we moved away from the blindfold scatter gun approach to player recruitment and moved forward with coherence.

Time for another Staropramen.......
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on May 03, 2021, 06:44:38 PM
So according to the commentator on sky tonight Diagne, Okay and Snodgrass were all on
our list in the summer so are we to totally blame Slaven for our summer signings or lack
of them? Big Sam wasn't behind any of them apparently...
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on May 03, 2021, 06:49:52 PM
So according to the commentator on sky tonight Diagne, Okay and Snodgrass were all on
our list in the summer so are we to totally blame Slaven for our summer signings or lack
of them? Big Sam wasn't behind any of them apparently...

Interesting. Who didn't want them then? Dowling or Bilic. Dowling is here and so are they so sounds like Bilic didnt want them.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 03, 2021, 06:50:16 PM
So according to the commentator on sky tonight Diagne, Okay and Snodgrass were all on
our list in the summer so are we to totally blame Slaven for our summer signings or lack
of them? Big Sam wasn't behind any of them apparently...

I don't believe it for a second.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: KN22 on May 03, 2021, 06:50:44 PM
Or the club failed to support the deals?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on May 03, 2021, 07:02:15 PM
I don't believe it for a second.

Don't shoot the messenger  ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 03, 2021, 07:04:27 PM
Don't shoot the messenger  ;D

Comms team briefed by Dowling. Means we PASSED on them in the summer if true which is arguably worse than not knowing about them.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: FallOutBoy on May 03, 2021, 07:04:51 PM
So according to the commentator on sky tonight Diagne, Okay and Snodgrass were all on
our list in the summer so are we to totally blame Slaven for our summer signings or lack
of them? Big Sam wasn't behind any of them apparently...

I think that's balls. The Luke Dowling spin machine in action.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 03, 2021, 08:14:37 PM
There is a hell of a lot of whinging on this thread for the sake of it, without any recognition that Dowling was handed a shoe string budget in the summer and left to beg and borrow for players. There were clubs with more resources who we finished above to get promotion last season and we went into this season with a tin-pot budget. Some of our signings have worked, some haven't, that's football for you.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 03, 2021, 09:09:10 PM
There is a hell of a lot of whinging on this thread for the sake of it, without any recognition that Dowling was handed a shoe string budget in the summer and left to beg and borrow for players. There were clubs with more resources who we finished above to get promotion last season and we went into this season with a tin-pot budget. Some of our signings have worked, some haven't, that's football for you.
What clubs were they then ? .
You say shoe string and yes it wasn't enough but look at our two big signings Grady and Grant both dumped on the bench after below par seasons . Diange and Okay aren't perfect but a big improvement on what we had , both loan deals .....the sort of deals we needed back in Summer but as usual Dowling prefers the British market . 
Instead under Dowling's watch we signed 3 players who all play left side in one window , lets not forget that blew 99% of our budget . Evidence is there , the blokes woeful .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 03, 2021, 09:18:25 PM
What clubs were they then ? .

We got relegated with Swansea and Stoke in 2018. Stoke in particular spent a fortune since then. We all had the same parachute budgets. They of course have owner pumping money in. We were the only club to get promoted out of the teams that came down with us, although it took us two years. Last season the relegated clubs from 2019 all had bigger parachute payments than we did, as the payouts decline every year. Leeds and Fulham also spent a lot more than we did. If you look at the premiership relegation sides, us and Fulham are the only sides to go back up since 2017. Most have trapped themselves into the championship. Then this season our budget was 20th.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 03, 2021, 09:22:24 PM
We got relegated with Swansea and Stoke in 2018. Stoke in particular spent a fortune since then. We all had the same parachute budgets. They of course have owner pumping money in. We were the only club to get promoted out of the teams that came down with us, although it took us two years. Last season the relegated clubs from 2019 all had bigger parachute payments than we did, as the payouts decline every year. Leeds and Fulham also spent a lot more than we did. If you look at the premiership relegation sides, us and Fulham are the only sides to go back up since 2017. Most have trapped themselves into the championship. Then this season our budget was 20th.
Not sure on Stoke and Swansea , think they had started massive cut backs by then .
Fulham and Leeds you are probably correct on .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 03, 2021, 09:26:23 PM
What clubs were they then ? .
You say shoe string and yes it wasn't enough but look at our two big signings Grady and Grant both dumped on the bench after below par seasons . Diange and Okay aren't perfect but a big improvement on what we had , both loan deals .....the sort of deals we needed back in Summer but as usual Dowling prefers the British market . 
Instead under Dowling's watch we signed 3 players who all play left side in one window , lets not forget that blew 99% of our budget . Evidence is there , the blokes woeful .

I still think Diangana is a class player and you would not have found an Albion fan who wasn't delighted when we signed him in the summer. It's a crying shame Allardyce won't give him ten minutes to do something. Hopefully next season he gets to rip it up for us. As for Grant, I was always less convinced on him. Part of the problem is the decision to keep switching managers as each have their own way of playing and preference. It is a bit crazy to spend most of your meagre budget on two young players, then change coaching staff to a manager who doesn't want them.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 03, 2021, 09:36:03 PM
I still think Diangana is a class player and you would not have found an Albion fan who wasn't delighted when we signed him in the summer. It's a crying shame Allardyce won't give him ten minutes to do something. Hopefully next season he gets to rip it up for us. As for Grant, I was always less convinced on him. Part of the problem is the decision to keep switching managers as each have their own way of playing and preference. It is a bit crazy to spend most of your meagre budget on two young players, then change coaching staff to a manager who doesn't want them.
You've found one in me , Gradys injuries concerned me . Young bloke with the dreaded hamstring /calf / back combo should have rang alarm bells plus more to the point I along with 95% of Albion fans saw that midfield get found out  just before the lockdown .To not address that or have anybody in the squad ready to step in is shocking in my book , that where money needed spending .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: beechyboy90 on May 03, 2021, 09:40:16 PM
Can earn some credit by releasing;
Grosicki peltier hrk austin Ivanovic and HRK
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 03, 2021, 09:42:28 PM
You've found one in me , Gradys injuries concerned me . Young bloke with the dreaded hamstring /calf / back combo should have rang alarm bells plus more to the point I along with 95% of Albion fans saw that midfield get found out  just before the lockdown .To not address that or have anybody in the squad ready to step in is shocking in my book , that where money needed spending .

I think the main problem is that there were just too many holes to plug against the budget we had. It was like trying to cover an elephant with a kids duvet.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 03, 2021, 09:45:32 PM
I think the main problem is that there were just too many holes to plug against the budget we had. It was like trying to cover an elephant with a kids duvet.
Then there was no way Dowling should be allowing 3 players in the same position to be signed , two of which took up the budget .You couldn't make that up.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 03, 2021, 09:48:39 PM
Then there was no way Dowling should be allowing 3 players in the same position to be signed , two of which took up the budget .You couldn't make that up.

Callum Robinson was a fantastic signing, has been criminally under used and Chris Wilder should hang his head in shame for swapping him with Oliver Burke. That was a great bit of business by Dowling.

Grant was signed to play upfront, not left midfield like Grady was. He was our cheaper version of Ollie Watkins. Sadly when you sign an imitation you often get what you pay for.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 03, 2021, 09:57:55 PM
Callum Robinson was a fantastic signing, has been criminally under used and Chris Wilder should hang his head in shame for swapping him with Oliver Burke. That was a great bit of business by Dowling.

Grant was signed to play upfront, not left midfield like Grady was. He was our cheaper version of Ollie Watkins. Sadly when you sign an imitation you often get what you pay for.
We got lucky Wilder was daft enough to do that( one reason I don't want him here ) , Robinson was a Bilic pick first off .
See the Grant thing ....as Technical Director Dowling should not  be allowing that signing imo . A player whose natural position is anything but a lone forward , signed on a long deal for a big chunk of our budget . Add to that he has limited top flight experience and has looked a limited player whenever I've seen him .
Dowling hangs himself with his British first shopping , look at Diange ...another level to Grant in that role . That deal or someone like could have been done in the Summer instead of this problem we now have on much less money and not a 6 year deal .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 03, 2021, 10:12:59 PM
We got lucky Wilder was daft enough to do that( one reason I don't want him here ) , Robinson was a Bilic pick first off .
See the Grant thing ....as Technical Director Dowling should not  be allowing that signing imo . A player whose natural position is anything but a lone forward , signed on a long deal for a big chunk of our budget . Add to that he has limited top flight experience and has looked a limited player whenever I've seen him .
Dowling hangs himself with his British first shopping , look at Diange ...another level to Grant in that role . That deal or someone like could have been done in the Summer instead of this problem we now have on much less money and not a 6 year deal .

Robinson and Grant were both Bilic picks, one worked and one failed.  I don't rate Grant much either, although from what has been reported Bilic wanted him in sooner. The fact we are paying the transfer fee over six years it a benefit to us - i.e. good negotiations from our technical director. We can only second guess what goes on behind the scenes. What I find amusing is fans trying to assign players they like to managers they prefer and signings they don't onto Dowling. I'm sure Allardyce does have a decent agent phonebook and contacts which have helped. I recall several players Bilic wanted in the summer that sadly our budget at that time would not sanction.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 03, 2021, 10:27:42 PM
Robinson and Grant were both Bilic picks, one worked and one failed.  I don't rate Grant much either, although from what has been reported Bilic wanted him in sooner. The fact we are paying the transfer fee over six years it a benefit to us - i.e. good negotiations from our technical director. We can only second guess what goes on behind the scenes. What I find amusing is fans trying to assign players they like to managers they prefer and signings they don't onto Dowling. I'm sure Allardyce does have a decent agent phonebook and contacts which have helped. I recall several players Bilic wanted in the summer that sadly our budget at that time would not sanction.
Your getting away from the point , Grady I can handle although I made my view on his potential injuries earlier .
If i was a manager and I came to you in the Summer before a top flight season and said I want to spend a big percentage of our transfer budget on a wide forward and play him in a lone role he's not used to would you allow it like Dowling did ?  When theres much better value elsewhere ? . No I don't think you would having seen your other posts on here .
We could go on all night , limited funds yes but I and quite a few others have had enough of Dowling ...he's had his go IMO . He's out of his depth at this level if we ever return and his British first attitude kills us before we start .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: paulosull on May 03, 2021, 10:46:03 PM
If this bloke wanted to sign Snodgrass, Okay and Diagne in summer then it's another reason I don't want him here next season. He's head of recruitment but bowed to pressure from Bilic to sign Grant and Krovinovic instead bloke is weak willed which is not what you want from sporting director.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 03, 2021, 11:13:20 PM
Hopefully in the absence of him losing his job, he sits down with Sam, gets told how it is and how it's going to be, and out of pure self preservation accedes to any and all demands, gives him a 3 year deal and this time in 2 years we're midtable Premier League and a saleable asset once again.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 03, 2021, 11:21:38 PM
Your getting away from the point , Grady I can handle although I made my view on his potential injuries earlier. If i was a manager and I came to you in the Summer before a top flight season and said I want to spend a big percentage of our transfer budget on a wide forward and play him in a lone role he's not used to would you allow it like Dowling did ?  When theres much better value elsewhere ? . No I don't think you would having seen your other posts on here . We could go on all night , limited funds yes but I and quite a few others have had enough of Dowling ...he's had his go IMO . He's out of his depth at this level if we ever return and his British first attitude kills us before we start .

Everyone seems to think our January business was pretty good and that is under Dowling and Allardyce, so I don't see this huge problem that you see. Over the years we have signed plenty of trash from aboard as well as from the UK market. Remember Zuiverloon and Bifouma? Or Sebastian Blanco? Or Rosenberg or Varela? Then there was Gamboa, the midget full back. Brown Ideye who cost a fortune and was useless worth a mention as well. Plenty of signings don't work out, that has always been the case. Overall over the last two season we have done more than okay compared to what we have spent. Pereira alone this summer could attract a transfer fee equal to our budget over the last two years.

The budget this season was way too short in the summer. I can't say that the club has underperformed against that. The technical director, managers, coaches and players have delivered what I would have expected, a reasonably go at things but found to be lacking.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: MarkW on May 03, 2021, 11:49:56 PM
Dowling came in in late September 2018, so after Darren Moore's summer window. Dowling's first window was January 2019. I started a big post taking each window apart and seeing not only how the players did for us, but also since moving on, as sometimes you can bring the right player in but it just doesn't work out (see many Villa players under Sherwood).

To cut a long story short, in less than three years we've reduced the age of the squad by a good margin, but neglected to strengthen properly in some key areas. I was certainly hoping for more from Dowling
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: webral on May 04, 2021, 02:10:39 AM
I'm no huge fan of Dowling but if he goes, I'd be concerned about who's selecting his replacement?

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 04, 2021, 05:26:56 AM
Everyone seems to think our January business was pretty good and that is under Dowling and Allardyce, so I don't see this huge problem that you see. Over the years we have signed plenty of trash from aboard as well as from the UK market. Remember Zuiverloon and Bifouma? Or Sebastian Blanco? Or Rosenberg or Varela? Then there was Gamboa, the midget full back. Brown Ideye who cost a fortune and was useless worth a mention as well. Plenty of signings don't work out, that has always been the case. Overall over the last two season we have done more than okay compared to what we have spent. Pereira alone this summer could attract a transfer fee equal to our budget over the last two years.

The budget this season was way too short in the summer. I can't say that the club has underperformed against that. The technical director, managers, coaches and players have delivered what I would have expected, a reasonably go at things but found to be lacking.
The Winter window signings were impressive but lets not kid ourselves thats Allardyce pushing for those , the frustrating thing is those are the sort of players that needed adding during the Summer not the sort who arrived .Lets not forget we had to out Austin , Zohore and tried with Grosiki before we could do the Winter deals. Who was behind all three of those deals? .....yes thats right Dowling .
If your short on budget then you have to use what you have wisely , its my view he didn't and to not use the unlimited overseas loan market was asking for this mess on top of Grant .
Bottom line is no Tech Director worth his salt allows his side to go into a Premier season with so many areas that were clearly failing months before , certainly the axis of Livermore and Sawyers is unforgivable .
As Jacko says the only way Dowling should survive is if Allardyce stays and even then I'm not sure on that .
Edit please don't try and bring Pereira into it , all Bilic's doing . He's everything Dowling tries to avoid in a signing .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: California Dreaming on May 04, 2021, 06:43:03 AM
Hopefully in the absence of him losing his job, he sits down with Sam, gets told how it is and how it's going to be, and out of pure self preservation accedes to any and all demands, gives him a 3 year deal and this time in 2 years we're midtable Premier League and a saleable asset once again.
Or ... we’re stuck in the Championship with an aging squad full of journeymen with no money playing mind numbing football but grinding out some great draws against Coventry, Blues, Peterborough......
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 04, 2021, 11:02:30 AM
Or ... we’re stuck in the Championship with an aging squad full of journeymen with no money playing mind numbing football but grinding out some great draws against Coventry, Blues, Peterborough......

This is far more likely if we go down the new manager route...
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Fritzl Palace on May 04, 2021, 11:21:43 AM
This is far more likely if we go down the new manager route...

If we go down the new manager route the only thing I can guarantee is that we will start the season with a midfield two of Livermore and Sawyers.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Atomic on May 04, 2021, 11:38:35 AM
If we go down the new manager route the only thing I can guarantee is that we will start the season with a midfield two of Livermore and Sawyers.

Allardyce is worth keeping for that reason alone. I cant stand another season of those pair in midfield.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Adder on May 04, 2021, 12:53:51 PM
Where did the idea that it was Dowling not Bilic who wanted Diangana signed permanently actually come from ? I distinctly remember Bilic talking about recruitment pre season saying the likes of 'it's important we first secure the people who got us up'. From that I would assume Pereira, Krov and Diangana.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WBA.R.K on May 04, 2021, 12:55:39 PM
Where did the idea that it was Dowling not Bilic who wanted Diangana signed permanently actually come from ? I distinctly remember Bilic talking about recruitment pre season saying the likes of 'it's important we first secure the people who got us up'. From that I would assume Pereira, Krov and Diangana.

If I am remembering correctly it came from Steve Madeley.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 04, 2021, 12:57:10 PM
Where did the idea that it was Dowling not Bilic who wanted Diangana signed permanently actually come from ? I distinctly remember Bilic talking about recruitment pre season saying the likes of 'it's important we first secure the people who got us up'. From that I would assume Pereira, Krov and Diangana.

There was a story going round virtually as soon as the window closed that Dowling insisted on Diangana as a statement signing amid tenuous links to Villa, while Bilić thought he'd be able to get him on loan nearer the end of the window.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Adder on May 04, 2021, 01:01:06 PM
There was a story going round virtually as soon as the window closed that Dowling insisted on Diangana as a statement signing amid tenuous links to Villa, while Bilić thought he'd be able to get him on loan nearer the end of the window.
OK so a story going around.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 04, 2021, 01:03:17 PM
OK so a story going around.

As someone said, possibly Madeley but definitely an actual written story. Why don't you look back through the thread to find out?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Adder on May 04, 2021, 01:20:00 PM
As someone said, possibly Madeley but definitely an actual written story. Why don't you look back through the thread to find out?
People have stated it recently so maybe they could look back through the thread. If it happened so be it but its the type of thing that you wonder who would be the source who actually says to a journalist  'Slaven only wanted him on loan but this is Dowling's statement signing'. 
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: boinging_along on May 04, 2021, 01:49:59 PM
I've no issue with the signing of Diangana - he was one of our star players the previous season and we thought we had no chance to sign him.  Just looking at the reaction from the West Ham fans (and players) show how he was held in high regard. 

He struggled early on - as did all the team - and for some reason Sam won't give him any minutes.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on May 04, 2021, 02:05:13 PM
People have stated it recently so maybe they could look back through the thread. If it happened so be it but its the type of thing that you wonder who would be the source who actually says to a journalist  'Slaven only wanted him on loan but this is Dowling's statement signing'.

If I recall correctly, it was Bilic himself (when he left) who said he was happy to wait for Dianagana on loan, but Dowling thought he would be a good investment, so chose to buy him at a significant cost (Around £18 million I believe)

There's a line about it here....

Quote
interestingly, Bilic also had doubts over West Brom’s decision to make Grady Diangana’s loan deal permanent for £18 million, fearing such a massive outlay would inhibit his ability to bring in other arrivals.


Read more here
https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2020/12/18/report-bilic-didnt-want-dowling-signing-at-west-brom-also-rejected-experienced-pl-man/ (https://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2020/12/18/report-bilic-didnt-want-dowling-signing-at-west-brom-also-rejected-experienced-pl-man/)


As I understand it, that's why the deal for Grant had to be structured, also, the commentary team last night confirmed that Okay & Diagne were identified in the summer, but there are allegations that the cost of the Diangana purchase prevented us from pursuing them until January.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Adder on May 04, 2021, 06:32:25 PM
OK cheers, at least I know where that came from. Bilic obviously wanted him as indicated by his statements about securing the players who got us up....but not at that price it seems.
I really hope Diangana can get his fitness and confidence back, suspect the two go hand in hand with him.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on May 04, 2021, 09:34:52 PM
What concerns me about relegation is that we will probably lose 6 of our best players from this season. There is absolutely no guarentee about their replacements. That's why its daft to make definite predictions about where we will finish.  Most of the midfield and forward departments will need to be replaced or re-structured and probably a new keeper brought in. Only the back line looks fairly settled.   
From the existing midfielders and forwards in our first team squad, I think that only Diangana, Phillips, Robinson and maybe Edwards are at a level we can use regularly.

Getting the right new players in will be absolutely crucial.  I'd feel a bit more confident of getting the right players in with a manager who has a more expansive attacking philosophy than Allardyce. In practice, what kind of players would SA want to attract?   
Experienced players, probably nearing the end of their careers?

But in practice there are no gurarentees about whether the players brought in will deliver, irrespective of whether its Allardyce. Having sufficient funds available is  important, but its no guarentee,  Grant being a good example of that.
Sometimes cheaper players may do a better job.
Dowling, with whoever is manager, have got some crucial decisions to make.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on May 04, 2021, 11:13:49 PM
I've no issue with the signing of Diangana - he was one of our star players the previous season and we thought we had no chance to sign him.  Just looking at the reaction from the West Ham fans (and players) show how he was held in high regard. 

He struggled early on - as did all the team - and for some reason Sam won't give him any minutes.

On paper it was a good signing but it further demonstrated the disconnect between Dowling and Bilic.

There was no use in blowing a significant portion of our budget on GD only for the head coach to adopt a three at the back policy which nullified all three of our forward acquisitions (GD, MP, KG and to an extent CR).

The money would have been better used elsewhere if that was the case but those should have been discussions ironed out by Dowling and Bilic.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: MarkW on May 05, 2021, 10:14:49 AM
My biggest gripe with Dowling is the lack of a clear plan to create a long-standing play-style. We went from a squad largely made up of those who got us relegated under Pulis/Pardew, to a non-descript possession based team under Moore and Bilic, and have since used those players plus some loanees to get us to a point where we play Allardyce football with limited success.

As I said previously, he has lowered the age of the squad, which is a huge positive. But if you looked at the squad we had, and the squad we have now, can you really say much progress has been made?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on May 05, 2021, 11:12:39 AM
Agree Mark, he has shown very few signs of future planning in his time here, other than the policy to lower the average age.

I sound like a broken record, but look at Ashworth, both here and now at Brighton. In addition to the normal signings, he would always make 1 or 2 signings a year with an eye on a few years later. There were misses (Allan, Worrall, Haber), but there were many successes (Dorrans, Dawson, Mulumbu). This for me is future planning, not just looking 1 season at a time.

Apart from raiding the football league, I can't really pick what Dowling's transfer strategy is meant to be, where as Ashworth had many clear strands ("players for the future" signings, the best free agents, a mix of domestic and foreign signings etc).

He isn't going to be cutting edge enough to establish us in the premier league, in fact I wouldn't be shocked to see us fall behind Brentford and Barnsley in the next few years.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on May 05, 2021, 11:32:03 AM
My biggest gripe with Dowling is the lack of a clear plan to create a long-standing play-style. We went from a squad largely made up of those who got us relegated under Pulis/Pardew, to a non-descript possession based team under Moore and Bilic, and have since used those players plus some loanees to get us to a point where we play Allardyce football with limited success.

As I said previously, he has lowered the age of the squad, which is a huge positive. But if you looked at the squad we had, and the squad we have now, can you really say much progress has been made?

What you say makes a lot of sense, if LD was the top man, but he has a boss, who also has a boss.

I believe the owner has a lot more input than we think.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: MarkW on May 05, 2021, 01:01:53 PM
What you say makes a lot of sense, if LD was the top man, but he has a boss, who also has a boss.

I believe the owner has a lot more input than we think.

In what way do you think Lai is influencing Dowling directly?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on May 05, 2021, 01:07:29 PM
In what way do you think Lai is influencing Dowling directly?

Let's put it this way, allegedly, Lai had a major say in employing Darren Moore as head coach, when Jenkins et al wanted a more experienced coach.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on May 05, 2021, 01:43:57 PM
I’ve heard that Lai/his representatives did like Moore, I think that has been repeated by a few people who cover the club, but I very much doubt they have any role in the players we sign. I doubt Lai actually watches any football if I’m honest.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Adder on May 05, 2021, 02:55:12 PM
There has to be a good chance that Lai's ears pricked up when the famed Allardyce 'never been relegated' bit was mentioned.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 09, 2021, 10:38:25 PM
Can't let relegation night go by without this chap getting a mention . :o
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on May 09, 2021, 10:54:48 PM
A traitor to all Albion supporters.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on May 09, 2021, 11:01:09 PM
He’s lucky that the people above him are even more incompetent than he is..
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 09, 2021, 11:09:01 PM
My favourite bit this season was signing three left sided players in Robinson , Grady and Grant in the Summer Window to go with the Dowling lead Grosiki .
Beyond belief as Technical Director to let that happen.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on May 09, 2021, 11:11:12 PM
He’s lucky that the people above him are even more incompetent than he is..

Ah yes, the old ‘promoted to your own level of incompetence’ proverb.

On the whole, I’ve been very underwhelmed during the four transfer windows he’s been our technical director.

Then again, look at the owner, chairman and CEO he’s working with. Pretty hopeless situation all round really.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SmethDan on May 19, 2021, 10:15:43 AM
Luke Dowling has never been seen in the same room as Erling Haaland (probably). He may never be seen in the same postcode either. We aren't signing his face double any time soon so we may as well give him a run out up front during preseason and take it from there. We may even attract some attention for his services elsewhere. Ya nevva know.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 19, 2021, 10:24:06 PM
A picture surfaced Today of Zohore having had a hair transplant this week or so , a reminder of Luke's calibre of signing ......
This idiot should be gone now Allardyce has walked .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: kirk on May 19, 2021, 10:28:29 PM
Another one who should be going
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on May 19, 2021, 10:33:22 PM
Would be happy to see the back of this fella. Hopefully he gets his marching orders.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 19, 2021, 10:34:32 PM
Surely , surely thats Dowling done .
Hugely out of his depth .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on May 19, 2021, 10:36:51 PM
At what point do the owners realise they have hired a bloke out of his depth.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on May 19, 2021, 10:41:17 PM
At what point do the owners realise they have hired a bloke out of his depth.

When they get an idea about football between them. Don't hold your breath.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Fritzl Palace on May 19, 2021, 10:42:55 PM
They have continuously hired blokes out of their depth. John Williams was the first appointment who persisted with Pulis for far too long and it cost us our place in the Premier League to begin with. We are owned by an utter shambles I’m afraid chaps
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: wba_1996 on May 19, 2021, 10:44:46 PM
I’ve said it many times. I’d do his job better than he does for half the money. Guouchan if you’re reading this drop me a PM.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on May 19, 2021, 10:45:23 PM
At what point do the owners realise they have hired a bloke out of his depth.

When they make either no money or lose money.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: BaggieNick on May 19, 2021, 10:46:30 PM
A picture surfaced Today of Zohore having had a hair transplant this week or so , a reminder of Luke's calibre of signing ......
This idiot should be gone now Allardyce has walked .

Bang on!

This blokes been a disaster.

Time for him to admit his faults and leave.

Anyone else worried about Sam going? Does this mean we're going to do it in the cheap aagai n?  That works...
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on May 19, 2021, 10:46:50 PM
If I were Lai or Ken, I would have had a long chat with a successful, experienced man who knows the english game intimately and can tell them how to put a structure in place.

Enter Mr Hodgson, let him take Dowlings role and put a proper structure in place.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: darbolina on May 19, 2021, 10:56:48 PM
Great shout by Albionic for Roy to take over from Dowling who simply has no idea in my humble
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on May 19, 2021, 10:56:58 PM
He lukes like a bloke who flounders a lot.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on May 19, 2021, 10:57:56 PM
Great shout by Albionic for Roy to take over from Dowling who simply has no idea in my humble

We can but dream. Great idea though 😃👍🏻
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on May 19, 2021, 10:58:45 PM
If I were Lai or Ken, I would have had a long chat with a successful, experienced man who knows the english game intimately and can tell them how to put a structure in place.

Enter Mr Hodgson, let him take Dowlings role and put a proper structure in place.

He'd certainly have experience, contacts, scouts etc. I don't know what the DOF does day to day but if Dowling can do it anyone can.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on May 19, 2021, 11:02:45 PM
Sam

“The club have asked for my opinion on the qualities my successor will require and I have been more than happy to offer my thoughts."


If the club are asking him to help choose shows how little faith they have in Dowling and if Dowlings asking him to help he's clearly out of his depth.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WorcsWBA on May 19, 2021, 11:09:05 PM
If the club are asking him to help choose shows how little faith they have in Dowling and if Dowlings asking him to help he's clearly out of his depth.
First time I've agreed with you in a while!  ;D

Dowling has to go.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: darbolina on May 19, 2021, 11:10:26 PM
First time I've agreed with you in a while!  ;D

Dowling has to go.

Ha ha sums up Dowling, what a joke, next he'll dismantle a top quality youth system, oh wait!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on May 19, 2021, 11:11:21 PM
First time I've agreed with you in a while!  ;D

Dowling has to go.

Glad to have you on board  8)

In all seriousness whilst Lai is problem number 1 we can't shift him so we need to get rid of problem 2 which is Dowling whom we can shift.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 19, 2021, 11:11:42 PM
We can but dream. Great idea though 😃👍🏻

A pensioner as DOF? Wouldn’t work.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 19, 2021, 11:12:57 PM
Sam

“The club have asked for my opinion on the qualities my successor will require and I have been more than happy to offer my thoughts."


If the club are asking him to help choose shows how little faith they have in Dowling and if Dowlings asking him to help he's clearly out of his depth.

It was Dowling that appointed Allardyce so we can’t have it both ways.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on May 19, 2021, 11:16:40 PM
It was Dowling that appointed Allardyce so we can’t have it both ways.

Yes the only call he's made that i agreed with. Maybe his superiors are opening their eyes or been watching some football games.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on May 19, 2021, 11:20:44 PM
Glad to have you on board  8)

In all seriousness whilst Lai is problem number 1 we can't shift him so we need to get rid of problem 2 which is Dowling whom we can shift.

Dowling needs to go Gaz. I hope the Chinese can see that, I really do.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on May 19, 2021, 11:34:20 PM
Dowling needs to go Gaz. I hope the Chinese can see that, I really do.

I hope so too made. Praying for a Dowling club statement this week
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: BaggieNick on May 19, 2021, 11:40:17 PM
I hope so too made. Praying for a Dowling club statement this week

Got my mat out.

Here's hoping!

Oversaw the signings of Diangana and Grant - both useless at Prem level  and stupidly expensive. And that woeful squad to start the season.


Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on May 19, 2021, 11:43:04 PM
Got my mat out.

Here's hoping!

Oversaw the signings of Diangana and Grant - both useless at Prem level  and stupidly expensive. And that woeful squad to start the season.

Plus the likes of kipre and Grosiki who have vanished from the club
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on May 19, 2021, 11:47:15 PM
I hope so too made. Praying for a Dowling club statement this week

I shudder at the very thought of what garbage he’ll sign for us next season.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on May 19, 2021, 11:48:48 PM
I shudder at the very thought of what garbage he’ll sign for us next season.

Dread to think of the price he will pay for them too
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on May 19, 2021, 11:49:26 PM
Plus the likes of kipre and Grosiki who have vanished from the club

The £8million he set fire to by signing Kenneth Zohore is right up there for me 🔥💷
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: ex coseley kid on May 19, 2021, 11:50:30 PM
Do you think this forum gets translated into Chinese?

I   B L O O D Y  hope so!!!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on May 19, 2021, 11:51:39 PM
This bloke wasn't rated at Forest or Watford was he? I genuinely don't know. I will state that I don't rate him here for clarity.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on May 19, 2021, 11:51:47 PM
Dread to think of the price he will pay for them too

Or dare I say their weekly wage demands!

*cough Chazza Austin at £50k a week to warm our bench*
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: ttree30 on May 19, 2021, 11:52:31 PM
He doesn’t seem to be much good, does he?

I’d sooner have a DoF who had a track record as a successful scout and manager - an Allardyce or a Hodgson - than someone who seems to be greatly their inferior, but is somehow placed in a position as their boss.

By what possible criteria could he be considered more capable and knowledgeable than someone like Allardyce? It’s almost unbelievable.

Maybe he is working under huge constraints. Maybe he is a far-sighted genius hampered by circumstances.

But I’m waiting for the evidence. He seems to have been hugely over-promoted.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on May 19, 2021, 11:54:24 PM
When you look at his signings regardless of EFL or PL they have been disastrous overall. A far sighted genius would be very flattering I think
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Mister AT on May 19, 2021, 11:54:59 PM
He doesn’t seem to be much good, does he?

I’d sooner have a DoF who had a track record as a successful scout and manager - an Allardyce or a Hodgson - than someone who seems to be greatly their inferior, but is somehow placed in a position as their boss.

By what possible criteria could he be considered more capable and knowledgeable than someone like Allardyce? It’s almost unbelievable.

Maybe he is working under huge constraints. Maybe he is a far-sighted genius hampered by circumstances.

But I’m waiting for the evidence. He seems to have been hugely over-promoted.

Big Sam as DOF and a young manager in the coach role would work. Would never happen, but it would be better than Dowling.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on May 19, 2021, 11:55:21 PM
He doesn’t seem to be much good, does he?

I’d sooner have a DoF who had a track record as a successful scout and manager - an Allardyce or a Hodgson - than someone who seems to be greatly their inferior, but is somehow placed in a position as their boss.

By what possible criteria could he be considered more capable and knowledgeable than someone like Allardyce? It’s almost unbelievable.

Maybe he is working under huge constraints. Maybe he is a far-sighted genius hampered by circumstances.

But I’m waiting for the evidence. He seems to have been hugely over-promoted.

He looks like a sleazy football agent. Probably just bull****s his way through these jobs.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on May 19, 2021, 11:56:02 PM
I could handle that suggestion. Sam as DOF with a new manager
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: wbasoprano on May 19, 2021, 11:57:10 PM
The £8million he set fire to by signing Kenneth Zohore is right up there for me 🔥💷

That was the panic buy to top all panic buys. Absolutely dreadful piece of business.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: wba_1996 on May 20, 2021, 12:05:50 AM
I'm waiting with excitement to find out who will be the latest in the line of ancient free agent past-it right backs - Mears > Peltier > Ivanovic > ?

That's a little signature Dowling touch on a transfer window - sign at least 1 player so obviously old and out of his depth that it's actually embarrassing. I moaned about all 3 being old, useless wastes of wages and was proven right each time.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on May 20, 2021, 12:07:18 AM
A Football Director needs to have a combination of commercial skills, organisation and adminstration skills and football knowledge. The football knowledge bit is definitely as important. Ability to assess players and managers. Does Dowling have these qualities? 
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: BaggieNick on May 20, 2021, 12:08:36 AM
That was the panic buy to top all panic buys. Absolutely dreadful piece of business.

I'll see your Zohore and raise you Karlan Grant payable over SIX years.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: wbasoprano on May 20, 2021, 12:12:38 AM
I'll see your Zohore and raise you Karlan Grant payable over SIX years.

Slight difference being Grant might actually do something in the Championship. Zohore doesn't look like he could do it in the conference.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: BaggieNick on May 20, 2021, 12:20:45 AM
Slight difference being Grant might actually do something in the Championship. Zohore doesn't look like he could do it in the conference.

Agree, joking aside.

Problem is is that we have a player not good enough the season after next if we do go up and four more years to pay the fee.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 20, 2021, 12:21:54 AM
I'll see your Zohore and raise you Karlan Grant payable over SIX years.

Staggering the fee over six years is good for us and bad for Huddersfield.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: BaggieNick on May 20, 2021, 12:25:42 AM
Staggering the fee over six years is good for us and bad for Huddersfield.

Huddersfield will get 15m. Will we get a 15m player?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 20, 2021, 12:32:56 AM
Huddersfield will get 15m. Will we get a 15m player?

That’s not the same issue. I hope Grant thrives next season. If he scores 20 and we go up he’s paid his fee back plus some. Or he might flop. My point was that the staggering of his transfer fee was not a negative, it took a lot of arm twisting to get that done.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: BaggieNick on May 20, 2021, 12:43:54 AM
That’s not the same issue. I hope Grant thrives next season. If he scores 20 and we go up he’s paid his fee back plus some. Or he might flop. My point was that the staggering of his transfer fee was not a negative, it took a lot of arm twisting to get that done.

Maybe. He won't be any worse than this season.

I still see the paying for a player who may not be good enough next season having had a poor season this season with five years left to pay as a negative.

We'll see but I hope we recruit  better forwards in the summer.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: beechyboy90 on May 20, 2021, 03:24:43 AM
Dowling successes: billic, furlong and ajayi for the money spent. Austin worth the gamble did job but stupid money. Big sam was a good appointment.

Failures: grant crazy money, diangana. (However both may come good) kipre never figured, grosicki 18 months in bomb squad, Zohore 8m. Contract extensions phillips hrk HRK Livermore. Big sam leaving leaves egg on his face. This is only over 2 years im sure theres more

Would happily take roy or sam as a DOF this guy only
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 20, 2021, 05:24:46 AM
That’s not the same issue. I hope Grant thrives next season. If he scores 20 and we go up he’s paid his fee back plus some. Or he might flop. My point was that the staggering of his transfer fee was not a negative, it took a lot of arm twisting to get that done.
Should never have been done in the first place , a Ok wide forward from the 2nd tier trying to be converted into a lone forward in the Premier . What sort of a D.O.F / Tech Director allows that ? .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: DaveWBA on May 20, 2021, 05:55:55 AM
Should never have been done in the first place , a Ok wide forward from the 2nd tier trying to be converted into a lone forward in the Premier . What sort of a D.O.F / Tech Director allows that ? .

One who's manager spends 9 months begging for it.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on May 20, 2021, 05:57:27 AM
Should never have been done in the first place , a Ok wide forward from the 2nd tier trying to be converted into a lone forward in the Premier . What sort of a D.O.F / Tech Director allows that ? .

The sort who then hires a new manager who he knows will make said signing obsolete - along with a few other big money signings.

He is staggeringly bad.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on May 20, 2021, 09:16:46 AM
Staggering the fee over six years is good for us and bad for Huddersfield.

Can you explain that one to me?

Huddersfield can get instant payment, by using our staggered repayments as a guarantee against a loan.

We, on the other hand are committed to expenditure of around £2 million a year for 6 years. £2 million will be a significant sum if we have an extended period in the championship & parachute payments run out.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on May 20, 2021, 09:25:05 AM
Dowling successes: billic, furlong and ajayi for the money spent. Austin worth the gamble did job but stupid money. Big sam was a good appointment.

Failures: grant crazy money, diangana. (However both may come good) kipre never figured, grosicki 18 months in bomb squad, Zohore 8m. Contract extensions phillips hrk HRK Livermore. Big sam leaving leaves egg on his face. This is only over 2 years im sure theres more

Would happily take roy or sam as a DOF this guy only

Good points made 👍🏻

Personally, I can’t say Chazza Austin was a success for the £4million transfer fee plus £50k a week wages he was paid. Not for the 10 goals he scored.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: paulosull on May 20, 2021, 11:07:39 AM
Well if Allardyce is helping to identify new coach then those above Dowling might have realised that he's not all that. When Sam goes could Luke follow.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 20, 2021, 11:49:58 AM
Can you explain that one to me? Huddersfield can get instant payment, by using our staggered repayments as a guarantee against a loan. We, on the other hand are committed to expenditure of around £2 million a year for 6 years. £2 million will be a significant sum if we have an extended period in the championship & parachute payments run out.

I'm surprised you can't work this out for yourself.  The reason we couldn't get the signing over the line sooner was because Huddersfield wanted more money upfront and we wanted to stagger it as far out as possible, doesn't that tell you something? It's also the same reason that most people get a mortgage on a house.

Huddersfield would have to pay interest on any loan taken out, diluting their income. By paying the fee off over six years we were able to spread our meagre resources around. Had we paid the fee off sooner it would have blown a massive hole in our tiny budget and restricted other players coming in, both last summer and this summer.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: skyclad99 on May 20, 2021, 11:53:27 AM
Well if Allardyce is helping to identify new coach then those above Dowling might have realised that he's not all that. When Sam goes could Luke follow.

Fingers and toes very much crossed ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 20, 2021, 11:58:53 AM
Personally, I can’t say Chazza Austin was a success for the £4million transfer fee plus £50k a week wages he was paid. Not for the 10 goals he scored.

£4m outlay was very respectable for what we got in return. Football players are expensive. I very much doubt he was paid £50k a week in the championship. But regardless of that, without him we would not have got promoted which earned the club several hundred million pounds so yes it was a success.

The other point I find amusing in this debate about success / failures of signings is that nobody wants to mention Pereira, you know that guy who has lit up the league recently and is worth a fortune. Presumably posters who like to blame Luke Dowling for all of the signings not working and relegation will say that was down to Bilic. Yet many of those same posters wanted Bilic gone after like Big Sam he couldn't work a miracle and who appointed Bilic in the first place? Step forward Luke Dowling. The same guy who also appointed Sam Allarydyce.

The criticism of Dowling is massively overblown IMV. Nobody can reasonably say the club has underperformed over the last two seasons. We did brilliant to get automatic promotion and had little to no chance of survival with our budget.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on May 20, 2021, 12:08:24 PM
A staggered fee over 6 years isn't really particularly bad for Huddesfield. There is a relatively low risk of us going bust and they can use factoring to get any  early if they need to. It would probably cost them about 8% but we probably paid more than that over the odds to split it anyway.

I'm not sure its particularly great for us though. Suggests our cash flow and finances are quite strained to be honest.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: skyclad99 on May 20, 2021, 12:29:10 PM
£4m outlay was very respectable for what we got in return. Football players are expensive. I very much doubt he was paid £50k a week in the championship. But regardless of that, without him we would not have got promoted which earned the club several hundred million pounds so yes it was a success.

The other point I find amusing in this debate about success / failures of signings is that nobody wants to mention Pereira, you know that guy who has lit up the league recently and is worth a fortune. Presumably posters who like to blame Luke Dowling for all of the signings not working and relegation will say that was down to Bilic. Yet many of those same posters wanted Bilic gone after like Big Sam he couldn't work a miracle and who appointed Bilic in the first place? Step forward Luke Dowling. The same guy who also appointed Sam Allarydyce.

The criticism of Dowling is massively overblown IMV. Nobody can reasonably say the club has underperformed over the last two seasons. We did brilliant to get automatic promotion and had little to no chance of survival with our budget.

I am very happy to mention Pereira, and I really would like to know the provenance of the signing. Whilst I fully accept that LD signed him, who actually 'identified' him? or was it just a case of his agent contacting us?

Like you I have always been bemused by this 'good signing = Bilic, bad signing = Dowling'. Some are documented I know, but personally now I think the time has come for fresh thinking at his level.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: kirk on May 20, 2021, 01:01:48 PM
Huddersfield will get 15m. Will we get a 15m player?

Yes if he scores the amount of goals in the championship which ensures promotion to the premier league
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: smethwickw on May 20, 2021, 01:03:22 PM
I'm no fan of Dowling but his two managerial appointments have been decent to be fair to him. One got us promoted at the first attempt and the other is someone a large portion of our fans wanted to stay on. We've made far worse appointments in the past like Mel and Irvine. I'm confident we'll get someone decent in. Dowling's biggest issue has been his transfer dealings and his insistence on buying British based players.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 20, 2021, 02:01:21 PM
I am very happy to mention Pereira, and I really would like to know the provenance of the signing. Whilst I fully accept that LD signed him, who actually 'identified' him? or was it just a case of his agent contacting us?

Like you I have always been bemused by this 'good signing = Bilic, bad signing = Dowling'. Some are documented I know, but personally now I think the time has come for fresh thinking at his level.
Bilic scouted Periera , number one target .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: skyclad99 on May 20, 2021, 02:03:38 PM
Bilic scouted Periera , number one target .

Good to know, thanks Dexy
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 20, 2021, 02:08:39 PM
£4m outlay was very respectable for what we got in return. Football players are expensive. I very much doubt he was paid £50k a week in the championship. But regardless of that, without him we would not have got promoted which earned the club several hundred million pounds so yes it was a success.

The other point I find amusing in this debate about success / failures of signings is that nobody wants to mention Pereira, you know that guy who has lit up the league recently and is worth a fortune. Presumably posters who like to blame Luke Dowling for all of the signings not working and relegation will say that was down to Bilic. Yet many of those same posters wanted Bilic gone after like Big Sam he couldn't work a miracle and who appointed Bilic in the first place? Step forward Luke Dowling. The same guy who also appointed Sam Allarydyce.

The criticism of Dowling is massively overblown IMV. Nobody can reasonably say the club has underperformed over the last two seasons. We did brilliant to get automatic promotion and had little to no chance of survival with our budget.
The trouble with the Austin deal was the short sighted side to it , he didn't truly fit how Bilic wanted to play for a start . He was huffing and puffing pretty much early on in his Albion career , I wouldn't say he was finished as such but signs were there . You then get to promotion and he got a few goals in fairness , clearly at this point he wouldn't be starting games in the Premier yet with our limited budget he got a decent raise for us to go up meaning it was even harder to get him out the door .
Its all so short sighted , Grosiki I think was the same sort of  deal . Those are two typical Dowling deals , I think he's had his go and it's time for a fresh approach .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on May 20, 2021, 04:03:37 PM
I'm surprised you can't work this out for yourself.  The reason we couldn't get the signing over the line sooner was because Huddersfield wanted more money upfront and we wanted to stagger it as far out as possible, doesn't that tell you something? It's also the same reason that most people get a mortgage on a house.

Huddersfield would have to pay interest on any loan taken out, diluting their income. By paying the fee off over six years we were able to spread our meagre resources around. Had we paid the fee off sooner it would have blown a massive hole in our tiny budget and restricted other players coming in, both last summer and this summer.

Think you're missing the point.

You said

Quote
Staggering the fee over six years is good for us and bad for Huddersfield.


Struggling to understand the logic to be honest
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 20, 2021, 06:00:44 PM
Read a old article on him earlier , said his best buys were Glen Murray and Ben Watson . :o
Out of interest I asked 4 Forest fans I know ( 2 of them STHs) if they knew of Dowling , not one did .
I know Forest are a basket case of a club especially back then but I find that worrying .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on May 20, 2021, 08:31:22 PM
These are his signings during his time at this football club

2018/2019

Stefan Johansen - loan - meh
Jefferson Montero - loan - failure
Mason Holgate - loan - success
Jacob Murphy - loan - failure
Bakery Sako - short term deal - failure

2019/20

Kenneth Zohore - £8m - failure
Charlie Austin - £4m - meh
Romaine Sawyers - £3m - meh
Darnel Furlong - £1.5m - meh
Semi Ajayi - £1.5m - meh
Matheus Pereira - loan - success
Ali Al Habsi- short term deal
Filip Krovinovic- meh
Grady Diangana - loan - success
Chris Willock - loan - failure
Kamil Grosicki - £750k - failure
Lee Peltier - free - failure
Callum Robinson - loan - meh

2020/21

Karlan Grant - £15m - failure
Grady Diangana - £14m - failure
Matheus Pereira - £8m - success
David Button - £1m - meh
Cedric Kipre - £1m - failure
Bran Ivanovic - free - failure
Callum Robinson - swap - failure
Conor Gallagher - success
Filip Krovinovic - loan - failure
Mbaye Diange - loan - meh
Robert Snodgrass - £1m - failure
Maitland Niles - loan - success
Andy Lonergsn - free - meh
Okay Yokuslu - loan - success

That is 32 signings under his stewardship - there are 7 successes and you can argue that Pereira (x2) Diangana, Yokuslu and AMN were heavily manager influenced.

What a thoroughly uninspiring piece of recruitment.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on May 20, 2021, 08:33:07 PM
What an awful transfer record. Not just the fees but the absurd wages too.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: caravanc58 on May 20, 2021, 08:48:57 PM
These are his signings during his time at this football club

2018/2019

Stefan Johansen - loan - meh
Jefferson Montero - loan - failure
Mason Holgate - loan - success
Jacob Murphy - loan - failure
Bakery Sako - short term deal - failure

2019/20

Kenneth Zohore - £8m - failure
Charlie Austin - £4m - meh
Romaine Sawyers - £3m - meh
Darnel Furlong - £1.5m - meh
Semi Ajayi - £1.5m - meh
Matheus Pereira - loan - success
Ali Al Habsi- short term deal
Filip Krovinovic- meh
Grady Diangana - loan - success
Chris Willock - loan - failure
Kamil Grosicki - £750k - failure
Lee Peltier - free - failure
Callum Robinson - loan - meh

2020/21

Karlan Grant - £15m - failure
Grady Diangana - £14m - failure
Matheus Pereira - £8m - success
David Button - £1m - meh
Cedric Kipre - £1m - failure
Bran Ivanovic - free - failure
Callum Robinson - swap - failure
Conor Gallagher - success
Filip Krovinovic - loan - failure
Mbaye Diange - loan - meh
Robert Snodgrass - £1m - failure
Maitland Niles - loan - success
Andy Lonergsn - free - meh
Okay Yokuslu - loan - success

That is 32 signings under his stewardship - there are 7 successes and you can argue that Pereira (x2) Diangana, Yokuslu and AMN were heavily manager influenced.

What a thoroughly uninspiring piece of recruitment.
I'd
For the money involved Liam Grosicki wasn't a failure for me, put in some good displays and underused.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on May 20, 2021, 08:51:59 PM
I'd
For the money involved Liam Grosicki wasn't a failure for me, put in some good displays and underused.

That’s partly why I added him as a failure - rarely used for someone who came on such massive wages. That constitutes a failure for me.

I did consider Ajayi and Furlong as successes given their minimal outlay.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: caravanc58 on May 20, 2021, 08:55:06 PM
That’s partly why I added him as a failure - rarely used for someone who came on such massive wages. That constitutes a failure for me.

I did consider Ajayi and Furlong as successes given their minimal outlay.
Is the French striker Diaby still at the club?
There was high expectations when signed
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on May 20, 2021, 08:57:15 PM
Is the French striker Diaby still at the club?
There was high expectations when signed

I didn’t know we had a french striker called Diaby  ;D

He can’t be much cop if he can’t even get a look in this season given our options  ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 20, 2021, 08:59:21 PM
I didn’t know we had a french striker called Diaby  ;D

He can’t be much cop if he can’t even get a look in this season given our options  ;D

In the u23s. Misses a lot of games though.

Out of contract at the end of June.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 20, 2021, 09:15:44 PM
These are his signings during his time at this football club

2018/2019

Stefan Johansen - loan - meh
Jefferson Montero - loan - failure
Mason Holgate - loan - success
Jacob Murphy - loan - failure
Bakery Sako - short term deal - failure

2019/20

Kenneth Zohore - £8m - failure
Charlie Austin - £4m - meh
Romaine Sawyers - £3m - meh
Darnel Furlong - £1.5m - meh
Semi Ajayi - £1.5m - meh
Matheus Pereira - loan - success
Ali Al Habsi- short term deal
Filip Krovinovic- meh
Grady Diangana - loan - success
Chris Willock - loan - failure
Kamil Grosicki - £750k - failure
Lee Peltier - free - failure
Callum Robinson - loan - meh

2020/21

Karlan Grant - £15m - failure
Grady Diangana - £14m - failure
Matheus Pereira - £8m - success
David Button - £1m - meh
Cedric Kipre - £1m - failure
Bran Ivanovic - free - failure
Callum Robinson - swap - failure
Conor Gallagher - success
Filip Krovinovic - loan - failure
Mbaye Diange - loan - meh
Robert Snodgrass - £1m - failure
Maitland Niles - loan - success
Andy Lonergsn - free - meh
Okay Yokuslu - loan - success

That is 32 signings under his stewardship - there are 7 successes and you can argue that Pereira (x2) Diangana, Yokuslu and AMN were heavily manager influenced.

What a thoroughly uninspiring piece of recruitment.
Dear me , thats even poorer than I thought .
Some good money gone there too , very little return on that lot .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WorcsWBA on May 20, 2021, 09:29:13 PM
For the money involved Liam Grosicki wasn't a failure for me, put in some good displays and underused.
I agree. His lack of appearances under both Bilic and Allardyce is shameful given the rubbish served up by those who were preferred to him.

I'm sure it won't happen but, assuming suitable wages could be negotiated, I'd offer Grosicki a further 12 month contract now that Allardyce has gone. I think he'd be able to make a much more telling contribution in the Championship than the likes of Phillips, Robson-Kanu and Snodgrass. After the appalling way he's been treated though, even in the unlikely event that we wanted him to stay, I'm sure he just wants to get as far away from the club as possible now. Being frozen out at Albion will have greatly probably diminished his chances of appearing at the Euros for the last time in his career.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: BaggieNick on May 20, 2021, 10:43:14 PM
These are his signings during his time at this football club

2018/2019

Stefan Johansen - loan - meh
Jefferson Montero - loan - failure
Mason Holgate - loan - success
Jacob Murphy - loan - failure
Bakery Sako - short term deal - failure

2019/20

Kenneth Zohore - £8m - failure
Charlie Austin - £4m - meh
Romaine Sawyers - £3m - meh
Darnel Furlong - £1.5m - meh
Semi Ajayi - £1.5m - meh
Matheus Pereira - loan - success
Ali Al Habsi- short term deal
Filip Krovinovic- meh
Grady Diangana - loan - success
Chris Willock - loan - failure
Kamil Grosicki - £750k - failure
Lee Peltier - free - failure
Callum Robinson - loan - meh

2020/21

Karlan Grant - £15m - failure
Grady Diangana - £14m - failure
Matheus Pereira - £8m - success
David Button - £1m - meh
Cedric Kipre - £1m - failure
Bran Ivanovic - free - failure
Callum Robinson - swap - failure
Conor Gallagher - success
Filip Krovinovic - loan - failure
Mbaye Diange - loan - meh
Robert Snodgrass - £1m - failure
Maitland Niles - loan - success
Andy Lonergsn - free - meh
Okay Yokuslu - loan - success

That is 32 signings under his stewardship - there are 7 successes and you can argue that Pereira (x2) Diangana, Yokuslu and AMN were heavily manager influenced.

What a thoroughly uninspiring piece of recruitment.

What a post and thanks for the ti.e to do.it!

The idiot has to go.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on May 20, 2021, 10:48:39 PM
I agree. His lack of appearances under both Bilic and Allardyce is shameful given the rubbish served up by those who were preferred to him.

I'm sure it won't happen but, assuming suitable wages could be negotiated, I'd offer Grosicki a further 12 month contract now that Allardyce has gone. I think he'd be able to make a much more telling contribution in the Championship than the likes of Phillips, Robson-Kanu and Snodgrass. After the appalling way he's been treated though, even in the unlikely event that we wanted him to stay, I'm sure he just wants to get as far away from the club as possible now. Being frozen out at Albion will have greatly probably diminished his chances of appearing at the Euros for the last time in his career.

Signing Grosicki on a new contract would be the worst decision we could make if our intentions are to appoint Wilder. It would largely make him and our fellow wide men pretty redundant.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on May 21, 2021, 01:08:21 AM
100 times more important than any player he's signed, will be his choice as next manager. A bit revealing that he's asked Allardyce what characteristics his successor should have.  First time I've ever heard of a boss asking a departing employee who his replacement should be.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: paulosull on May 21, 2021, 07:30:39 AM
Unrelated to next manager but was watching west ham game and they panned to Luke in a nice Albion suite. Noticed what I thought was tats protruding from under cuff of shirt, does Dowling have Baggies Tattoos?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: skyclad99 on May 21, 2021, 07:57:44 AM
I wont copy it again but thank you Liam for taking the time to collate the list of 'Dowling's dealings'

That makes for depressing reading really doesn't it.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggieboy79 on May 21, 2021, 08:08:22 AM
These are his signings during his time at this football club

2018/2019

Stefan Johansen - loan - meh
Jefferson Montero - loan - failure
Mason Holgate - loan - success
Jacob Murphy - loan - failure
Bakery Sako - short term deal - failure

2019/20

Kenneth Zohore - £8m - failure
Charlie Austin - £4m - meh
Romaine Sawyers - £3m - meh
Darnel Furlong - £1.5m - meh
Semi Ajayi - £1.5m - meh
Matheus Pereira - loan - success
Ali Al Habsi- short term deal
Filip Krovinovic- meh
Grady Diangana - loan - success
Chris Willock - loan - failure
Kamil Grosicki - £750k - failure
Lee Peltier - free - failure
Callum Robinson - loan - meh

2020/21

Karlan Grant - £15m - failure
Grady Diangana - £14m - failure
Matheus Pereira - £8m - success
David Button - £1m - meh
Cedric Kipre - £1m - failure
Bran Ivanovic - free - failure
Callum Robinson - swap - failure
Conor Gallagher - success
Filip Krovinovic - loan - failure
Mbaye Diange - loan - meh
Robert Snodgrass - £1m - failure
Maitland Niles - loan - success
Andy Lonergsn - free - meh
Okay Yokuslu - loan - success

That is 32 signings under his stewardship - there are 7 successes and you can argue that Pereira (x2) Diangana, Yokuslu and AMN were heavily manager influenced.

What a thoroughly uninspiring piece of recruitment.

This just shows what's happened to the club since Ashworth left.  A thoroughly depressing list of failures with a few lucky successes in there.  The trouble with being a club at our level and financial setup is the ones who are a success will inevitably leave, so we need the person who is in charge of recruitment to be a lot better at finding the good ones.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on May 21, 2021, 09:03:09 AM
These are his signings during his time at this football club

2018/2019

Stefan Johansen - loan - meh
Jefferson Montero - loan - failure
Mason Holgate - loan - success
Jacob Murphy - loan - failure
Bakery Sako - short term deal - failure

2019/20

Kenneth Zohore - £8m - failure
Charlie Austin - £4m - meh
Romaine Sawyers - £3m - meh
Darnel Furlong - £1.5m - meh
Semi Ajayi - £1.5m - meh
Matheus Pereira - loan - success
Ali Al Habsi- short term deal
Filip Krovinovic- meh
Grady Diangana - loan - success
Chris Willock - loan - failure
Kamil Grosicki - £750k - failure
Lee Peltier - free - failure
Callum Robinson - loan - meh

2020/21

Karlan Grant - £15m - failure
Grady Diangana - £14m - failure
Matheus Pereira - £8m - success
David Button - £1m - meh
Cedric Kipre - £1m - failure
Bran Ivanovic - free - failure
Callum Robinson - swap - failure
Conor Gallagher - success
Filip Krovinovic - loan - failure
Mbaye Diange - loan - meh
Robert Snodgrass - £1m - failure
Maitland Niles - loan - success
Andy Lonergsn - free - meh
Okay Yokuslu - loan - success

That is 32 signings under his stewardship - there are 7 successes and you can argue that Pereira (x2) Diangana, Yokuslu and AMN were heavily manager influenced.

What a thoroughly uninspiring piece of recruitment.

Thank you for taking the time to put this together Liam.

Just one observation, it might have been better without your opinions on the players.

For example, Jacob Murphy was a decent player when he came to us, & has had a terrific season back at Newcastle. Was his performance with us down to Dowling or our coaches?

Over 2 seasons, only £19 million was spent on transfer fees, & that included a promotion season.

This season, we spent £40 million on transfer fees, £29 million of that on two players who can't get into the team.

Interestingly our improvement began after spending £1 million in transfer fees in January.

I believe there has to be a question marks against Dowling & Bilic on the £29 million spent on Diangana & Grant.

IMO, the fundamental mistake was spending a limited budget on transfer fees, we could have brought in some pretty decent players on frees & loans for that money, as was shown in January.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SmethDan on May 21, 2021, 09:08:50 AM
These are his signings during his time at this football club.....

I've been reading through this thread wondering if some of the criticisms directed towards him have been a little harsh given circumstances faced along the way, but when you put it like that......  several things stuck in my mind following a supporters do and an audience with Luke Dowling.

One of which was a comment he made about how Darren Moore's squad retention and summer recruitment was perhaps geared with the Premier League in mind as opposed to one needing to gain promotion from the grind of the Championship.

That we needed to recruit with the here and now in mind. Whatever else we can say about Luke if he's got a long term plan he's keeping it very close to his chest  ;D .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on May 21, 2021, 09:17:39 AM
Thank you for taking the time to put this together Liam.

Just one observation, it might have been better without your opinions on the players.

For example, Jacob Murphy was a decent player when he came to us, & has had a terrific season back at Newcastle. Was his performance with us down to Dowling or our coaches?


Jacob Murphy’s loan period with us was not a particularly successful one. I saw every single game he played in for the Albion and I can back up Liam’s summary of his time with us.

Out of the loan signings that joined us in January 2019 (Johansen, Murphy and Montero) it was Johansen who turned out to be the better loan signing overall. It was a shame it took him so many games to get his match sharpness up after spending his season on the bench for Fulham. He peaked a little too late.

In true Albion fashion though, it had to be Murphy crossing the ball in to Gayle at St. James for the Magpies to grab their winner earlier this season. Typical Albion 😏
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: skyclad99 on May 21, 2021, 09:18:32 AM
Thank you for taking the time to put this together Liam.

Just one observation, it might have been better without your opinions on the players.

For example, Jacob Murphy was a decent player when he came to us, & has had a terrific season back at Newcastle. Was his performance with us down to Dowling or our coaches?

Over 2 seasons, only £19 million was spent on transfer fees, & that included a promotion season.

This season, we spent £40 million on transfer fees, £29 million of that on two players who can't get into the team.

Interestingly our improvement began after spending £1 million in transfer fees in January.

I believe there has to be a question marks against Dowling & Bilic on the £29 million spent on Diangana & Grant.

IMO, the fundamental mistake was spending a limited budget on transfer fees, we could have brought in some pretty decent players on frees & loans for that money, as was shown in January.

There are a few players on there that have done good elsewhere, I think that Liam has graded them about right. From memory Murphy had big boots to fill as Barnes had just returned to Leicester, so perhaps some saw him as Barnes replacement. I don't think he did any good at all with us at all so for me was a failure. He has looked much better in the Newcastle side and you do have to wonder whether it is us.......

I agree with you about the Grant & Grady deals. Not sure about anyone else but when we bought those I was under the misguided impression that there were more quality players to follow, but I was wrong. So to blow the majority of your budget on two untested PL players is remarkably stupid.

If you were to grade the list as 'have they been good at other clubs' it would look a lot different, so it does make you think.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on May 21, 2021, 09:35:56 AM
These are his signings during his time at this football club

2018/2019

Stefan Johansen - loan - meh
Jefferson Montero - loan - failure
Mason Holgate - loan - success
Jacob Murphy - loan - failure
Bakery Sako - short term deal - failure

2019/20

Kenneth Zohore - £8m - failure
Charlie Austin - £4m - meh
Romaine Sawyers - £3m - meh
Darnel Furlong - £1.5m - meh
Semi Ajayi - £1.5m - meh
Matheus Pereira - loan - success
Ali Al Habsi- short term deal
Filip Krovinovic- meh
Grady Diangana - loan - success
Chris Willock - loan - failure
Kamil Grosicki - £750k - failure
Lee Peltier - free - failure
Callum Robinson - loan - meh

2020/21

Karlan Grant - £15m - failure
Grady Diangana - £14m - failure
Matheus Pereira - £8m - success
David Button - £1m - meh
Cedric Kipre - £1m - failure
Bran Ivanovic - free - failure
Callum Robinson - swap - failure
Conor Gallagher - success
Filip Krovinovic - loan - failure
Mbaye Diange - loan - meh
Robert Snodgrass - £1m - failure
Maitland Niles - loan - success
Andy Lonergsn - free - meh
Okay Yokuslu - loan - success

That is 32 signings under his stewardship - there are 7 successes and you can argue that Pereira (x2) Diangana, Yokuslu and AMN were heavily manager influenced.

What a thoroughly uninspiring piece of recruitment.

I wouldn't class Robinson as a failure. When given a chance he has done alright. Don't know why Sam didn't use him more. Same goes for Grosicki in my opinion.
Diangana was a sensible purchase based on his loan spell. This year has been a disaster for the lad for whatever reason.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on May 21, 2021, 09:47:53 AM
I've been reading through this thread wondering if some of the criticisms directed towards him have been a little harsh given circumstances faced along the way, but when you put it like that......  several things stuck in my mind following a supporters do and an audience with Luke Dowling.

One of which was a comment he made about how Darren Moore's squad retention and summer recruitment was perhaps geared with the Premier League in mind as opposed to one needing to gain promotion from the grind of the Championship.

That we needed to recruit with the here and now in mind. Whatever else we can say about Luke if he's got a long term plan he's keeping it very close to his chest  ;D .

Thats just crazy talk, how can that be reconciled with 3 year contracts or 6 year payment terms. For this idiocy alone he should get sacked.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: smethwickw on May 21, 2021, 10:08:41 AM
I'd say that Sawyers, Ajayi, Furlong and Krov were all successes. All signed for minimal outlay and for the purpose of getting us out of the Champ which was achieved. The failure was not replacing them with better quality once we went up.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on May 21, 2021, 10:27:06 AM
I'd say that Sawyers, Ajayi, Furlong and Krov were all successes. All signed for minimal outlay and for the purpose of getting us out of the Champ which was achieved. The failure was not replacing them with better quality once we went up.

minimal outlay / success or not they will have signed 3 year contracts on decent money (fantastic money by my standards) and we were therefore committed beyond their usefulness, barking mad. Besides being financial millstones they take up spaces and will be negative factors around the club if not utilised.

Buying cheap and for the future is damned difficult, a 50% success rate would be great but its hard to say Dowling has more than 1 success in this bracket (Townsend) he is a failure.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SmethDan on May 21, 2021, 10:32:48 AM
Thats just crazy talk, how can that be reconciled with 3 year contracts or 6 year payment terms. For this idiocy alone he should get sacked.

He's also said don't be afraid to sell at the right time and for the right price. If the moves come off you still sell at a profit. We're paying for as yet unfulfilled potential with an eye to future profit on the back of performances and results.

We're currently not getting performances, results or potential profits. Luke's longer term plans (if there  are any) and future budgets hinge very highly on any new boss getting a tune out of them. High risk for the monies being paid all be it over long term payments.

(Ed: it's also worth noting that he said that when Diangana was a loan player and long before we bought Grant).
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on May 21, 2021, 10:41:27 AM
He's also said don't be afraid to sell at the right time and for the right price. If the moves come off you still sell at a profit. We're paying for as yet unfulfilled potential with an eye to future profit on the back of performances and results.

We're currently not getting performances, results or potential profits. Luke's longer term plans (if there  are any) and future budgets hinge very highly on any new boss getting a tune out of them. High risk for the monies being paid all be it over long term payments.

(Ed: it's also worth noting that he said that when Diangana was a loan player and long before we bought Grant).

You can only sell at the right price if the player is successful, having them
a) failing
b) not being selected
is not going to engender sales, its a valid theory "buy cheap / sell high" but it totally relies on the commodity being in demand,
He has largely failed to identify the potential and thats fundamental to his modus operandi - Sack him.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SmethDan on May 21, 2021, 10:46:33 AM
You can only sell at the right price if the player is successful, having them
a) failing
b) not being selected
is not going to engender sales, its a valid theory "buy cheap / sell high" but it totally relies on the commodity being in demand,
He has largely failed to identify the potential and thats fundamental to his modus operandi......

I haven't suggested it's working..... yet  ;D .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on May 21, 2021, 10:57:13 AM
I wouldnt say Robinson is a failure but Grosicki certainly is.

That is not to say it is all his fault, although im sure he should take some blame, but a senior pro on his wages that cannot get a game has to be considered a failed / poor signing.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on May 21, 2021, 11:00:43 AM
I wouldn't class Robinson as a failure. When given a chance he has done alright. Don't know why Sam didn't use him more. Same goes for Grosicki in my opinion.
Diangana was a sensible purchase based on his loan spell. This year has been a disaster for the lad for whatever reason.

I had classed Robinson as a failure on the basis of his limited contribution both this season and last season. I think the same applies to Grosicki really. It also littered us with wide men when our priorities should have been elsewhere

I did mark Diangana as a success last season as he was excellent from start to finish.

I've recorded him as a failure this year for a number of reasons:
- His performance have not reached what we expected and he has largely been anonymous until we have been relegated
- Despite being signed on a sizeable fee, he did not fit Bilic's plans as his preference was three at the back which negated the majority of our summer signings.

Bilic and Dowling should have been singing from the same hymn sheet - if Bilic wanted to pursue a 3-5-2 then we needed to sign players who could contribute to those methods. Instead we ended up with Diangana, Pereira and Grant on big money contracts only for them to look out of place the second the season started as the manager opted for a formation that negated all of them.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 21, 2021, 11:04:56 AM
I had classed Robinson as a failure on the basis of his limited contribution both this season and last season. I think the same applies to Grosicki really.

I did mark Diangana as a success last season as he was excellent from start to finish.

I've recorded him as a failure this year for a number of reasons:
- His performance have not reached what we expected and he has largely been anonymous until we have been relegated
- Despite being signed on a sizeable fee, he did not fit Bilic's plans as his preference was three at the back which negated the majority of our summer signings.

Bilic and Dowling should have been singing from the same hymn sheet - if Bilic wanted to pursue a 3-5-2 then we needed to sign players who could contribute to those methods. Instead we ended up with Diangana, Pereira and Grant on big money contracts only for them to look out of place the second the season started as the manager opted for a formation that negated all of them.

Haven't seen anything that would give a STRONG argument against your assessment of any of those players.

If I HAD to make a case for someone it would probably be Diagne who has given us a focal point and been a major reason for our uptick in performances and looking like we belong in the division. Shame he's probably 2 or 3 goals shy.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Oldbury24 on May 21, 2021, 11:05:12 AM
I'd say that Sawyers, Ajayi, Furlong and Krov were all successes. All signed for minimal outlay and for the purpose of getting us out of the Champ which was achieved. The failure was not replacing them with better quality once we went up.

Yep.  And none would be sold at a loss if they went tomorrow.  I would suggest that of all the signings made...taking into account outlay and return on investment, only Zohore has been a complete failure.  Even Austin did his bit.

Even looking at what seems a disastrous window last summer, few questioned the signing of Grady (and i do think he could still go onto prove his worth) and Robinson was swapped for Burke, which was a no brainer.   Grant was a Billic signing by all accounts and I guess after the success of Pez and Grady they let him take a punt.

At this point, as Smeth points out, the problem wasn't who he then bought in but the players he didn't for CD and CM.  Was this decision manager led?  And if it was should he have either pulled rank or got out the P45.  Difficult with a manager who's just won you promotion, it would have been seen by most as insanely ruthless.

I'm not suggesting the fella has done a brilliant job by any means, I just don't think it's as bad as painted by some.  Difficult circumstances, small budget.  If he's staying on let's hope lessons have been learnt.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on May 21, 2021, 11:18:21 AM
minimal outlay / success or not they will have signed 3 year contracts on decent money (fantastic money by my standards) and we were therefore committed beyond their usefulness, barking mad. Besides being financial millstones they take up spaces and will be negative factors around the club if not utilised.

Buying cheap and for the future is damned difficult, a 50% success rate would be great but its hard to say Dowling has more than 1 success in this bracket (Townsend) he is a failure.

I wouldn't condemn Dowling for his Buy Cheap" deals. Most of the players listed have been in and around the first team, & I suspect we would at least get our money back on most of them.

I do, however, have serious reservations about spending £29 million in transfer fees on two players who can't get a game.
As things stand there is no way we would get a return on either player.

The value of transfer fees on Liam's list sums to £59 million, of that, £29 million was spent on Grant & Diangana.

I'd say by & large, we've had decent value for money on player recruitment up to August last year.

Pretty sure there was a policy that said transfer fees are dead money, & WBA would look to low transfer fee, but high wage deals.
It looks as though there was a change in policy about transfer fees & it's failed.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 21, 2021, 12:08:26 PM
Thank you for taking the time to put this together Liam.

Just one observation, it might have been better without your opinions on the players.

For example, Jacob Murphy was a decent player when he came to us, & has had a terrific season back at Newcastle. Was his performance with us down to Dowling or our coaches?

Over 2 seasons, only £19 million was spent on transfer fees, & that included a promotion season.

This season, we spent £40 million on transfer fees, £29 million of that on two players who can't get into the team.

Interestingly our improvement began after spending £1 million in transfer fees in January.

I believe there has to be a question marks against Dowling & Bilic on the £29 million spent on Diangana & Grant.

IMO, the fundamental mistake was spending a limited budget on transfer fees, we could have brought in some pretty decent players on frees & loans for that money, as was shown in January.
Firstly I think Liam was right to look back and grade them , a signing is only a success if they deliver while wearing our colours in all fairness and if in any doubt we shouldn't be signing them .
I do think you hit the nail on the head regarding the loan signings rather than bigger sums , I've no issue signing Grady although I believe Grant was stupid as I've posted elsewhere . Although Diagne has been a bit 50/50 and Okay a success I believe we haven't used that overseas market well enough at all . Granted they won't all work out but its a huge market , Dowling's continued British first policy killed us in this market really . Compare the money committed to Grant's transfer to what we could have got , yes Huddersfield allowed it structured but others clubs need to do deals too .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SmethDan on May 21, 2021, 12:20:47 PM
......Bilic's plans as his preference was three at the back which negated the majority of our summer signings.

Bilic and Dowling should have been singing from the same hymn sheet - if Bilic wanted to pursue a 3-5-2 then we needed to sign players who could contribute to those methods. Instead we ended up with Diangana, Pereira and Grant on big money contracts only for them to look out of place the second the season started as the manager opted for a formation that negated all of them.

I've mentioned this before and it really rankles with me. I appreciate plans change as players are ruled in or out but there seemed little if any coherent thought process or strategy to the summer window. It was like chucking a jigsaw puzzle in the air and hoping it would land as a completed picture.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: smethwickw on May 21, 2021, 12:25:20 PM
I've mentioned this before and it really rankles with me. I appreciate plans change as players are ruled in or out but there seemed little if any coherent thought process or strategy to the summer window. It was like chucking a jigsaw puzzle in the air and hoping it would land as a completed picture.

When have we ever had one of these?  :D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on May 21, 2021, 02:20:04 PM
Firstly I think Liam was right to look back and grade them , a signing is only a success if they deliver while wearing our colours in all fairness and if in any doubt we shouldn't be signing them .

I'm not disputing right or wrong, It's just Liam's opinion on a player isn't necessarily the same as mine. & therefore his opinion on the players value for money is not the same as mine.

When you're buying on a limited budget, there are always risks, it would be interesting to do a similar exercise with Chelsea (for example) to see how much they've spent on transfer fees for players that didn't work out

Quote
I do think you hit the nail on the head regarding the loan signings rather than bigger sums , I've no issue signing Grady although I believe Grant was stupid as I've posted elsewhere . Although Diagne has been a bit 50/50 and Okay a success I believe we haven't used that overseas market well enough at all . Granted they won't all work out but its a huge market , Dowling's continued British first policy killed us in this market really . Compare the money committed to Grant's transfer to what we could have got , yes Huddersfield allowed it structured but others clubs need to do deals too .

I'm yet to be convinced that the Grant deal was anything other than risky. We have 3 years of parachute payments & then we rely on generating our own income. Our revenue from ticket sales is around £7 million a year, from 2004 we will have to use £2 million of that to continue to pay Huddersfield for another 3 years.
Somebody asked yesterday if we're a well run club, with deals like that we're teetering on the brink.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: MarkW on May 21, 2021, 02:30:48 PM
I'm not disputing right or wrong, It's just Liam's opinion on a player isn't necessarily the same as mine. & therefore his opinion on the players value for money is not the same as mine.

When you're buying on a limited budget, there are always risks, it would be interesting to do a similar exercise with Chelsea (for example) to see how much they've spent on transfer fees for players that didn't work out

I'm yet to be convinced that the Grant deal was anything other than risky. We have 3 years of parachute payments & then we rely on generating our own income. Our revenue from ticket sales is around £7 million a year, from 2004 we will have to use £2 million of that to continue to pay Huddersfield for another 3 years.
Somebody asked yesterday if we're a well run club, with deals like that we're teetering on the brink.

Minor point but we don't get the third year of parachute payments as we were only in the Premier League for a single season.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on May 21, 2021, 02:53:05 PM
I think its fair to say Dowling has made mistakes with player recruitment. I come back to what characteristics go into making a competent Football Director. Business and commercial skills, organisation and administrative competence and last but not least, in depth knowledge of the football industry and the judging of footballing skills. I get the impression he may be competent on most of those, but judging of football skills is the big one.

The ideal is that you find a Football Director who was an ex player at a high level, who has a strong affiliation to the club, and who has gone on to develop their business skills after retirement. Someone like Bomber Brown would tick all the boxes for in depth knowledge of the game, and a strong affiliation to this club, but sadly, he probably never went on to develop business or commercial skills after retirement. I'm not saying that is anything but par for the course for ex-professional footballers in this country.
But that's basically how we end up with the Dowlings of this world.
 
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: seteefeet on May 21, 2021, 03:08:08 PM
I think its fair to say Dowling has made mistakes with player recruitment. I come back to what characteristics go into making a competent Football Director. Business and commercial skills, organisation and administrative competence and last but not least, in depth knowledge of the football industry and the judging of footballing skills. I get the impression he may be competent on most of those, but judging of football skills is the big one.

The ideal is that you find a Football Director who was an ex player at a high level, who has a strong affiliation to the club, and who has gone on to develop their business skills after retirement. Someone like Bomber Brown would tick all the boxes for in depth knowledge of the game, and a strong affiliation to this club, but sadly, he probably never went on to develop business or commercial skills after retirement. I'm not saying that is anything but par for the course for ex-professional footballers in this country.
But that's basically how we end up with the Dowlings of this world.
 

How many relegations does he have on his CV? Any with his previous teams?
With our limited budget, DoF is such a key role, someone more competent could be the signing of the decade.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Mooncat on May 21, 2021, 03:11:24 PM
@Alex1
sound like a case for Paul Scharner given his recent interview with the Liquidator podcast - he'd be ideal
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: tambag on May 21, 2021, 03:12:11 PM
Two years ago most of our permanent signings were from clubs where the players had 12 months left on their contracts.

I can see him using this same policy again for most of the signings required.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 21, 2021, 03:17:47 PM
I'm not disputing right or wrong, It's just Liam's opinion on a player isn't necessarily the same as mine. & therefore his opinion on the players value for money is not the same as mine.

When you're buying on a limited budget, there are always risks, it would be interesting to do a similar exercise with Chelsea (for example) to see how much they've spent on transfer fees for players that didn't work out

I'm yet to be convinced that the Grant deal was anything other than risky. We have 3 years of parachute payments & then we rely on generating our own income. Our revenue from ticket sales is around £7 million a year, from 2004 we will have to use £2 million of that to continue to pay Huddersfield for another 3 years.
Somebody asked yesterday if we're a well run club, with deals like that we're teetering on the brink.
I have to say John in this case these signings are pretty clear , I'd say 95% would agree with Liam .
In theory you have a case but in practice its pretty clear .
Its also clear from the list we have no structure or plan , handing out contracts that go up in wage when we got promoted to the likes of Austin and Grosicki who offered little is bad business and just makes it harder for ourselves .You highlighted the Grant deal , I fully agree it has the recipe for a poor deal . I don't think at this point its unfair to say Dowling is lucky to be in a job .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: hardtobeat on May 21, 2021, 04:02:01 PM
We can say what we want ,hope for whatever we like but I just can’t see a way of getting shot of Dowling. From what I can see he is just about in charge of this football club so unless he sacks himself .......
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on May 21, 2021, 04:18:12 PM
We can say what we want ,hope for whatever we like but I just can’t see a way of getting shot of Dowling. From what I can see he is just about in charge of this football club so unless he sacks himself .......
But he obviously doesn't trust his own judgement on recruitment , hence why he is allowing Allardyce to advise him on the new manager. Allardyce is no longer on our books. He decided to walk, so he should have no part in the appointment of his succesor. I read that he is advising against a recrutment without English league experience. So Daniel Farke, Hassnhuttl wouldn't have got a look in.
If Allardyce is advising Dowling, you might as well invite Pulis and Pardew to form a joint advisory team with Allardyce.   
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on May 21, 2021, 05:56:35 PM
But he obviously doesn't trust his own judgement on recruitment , hence why he is allowing Allardyce to advise him on the new manager. Allardyce is no longer on our books. He decided to walk, so he should have no part in the appointment of his succesor. I read that he is advising against a recrutment without English league experience. So Daniel Farke, Hassnhuttl wouldn't have got a look in.
If Allardyce is advising Dowling, you might as well invite Pulis and Pardew to form a joint advisory team with Allardyce.

There's an old saying.......................

Advisors Advise: Managers Manage.


Nothing wrong in my view asking for an opinion from an experienced SA.

If SA has advised against an appointment without English League experience, I would ask him to explain the rationale. I would only act on it if it made sense.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: EastYorksAlbion on May 21, 2021, 06:00:34 PM
I think its fair to say Dowling has made mistakes with player recruitment. I come back to what characteristics go into making a competent Football Director. Business and commercial skills, organisation and administrative competence and last but not least, in depth knowledge of the football industry and the judging of footballing skills. I get the impression he may be competent on most of those, but judging of football skills is the big one.

The ideal is that you find a Football Director who was an ex player at a high level, who has a strong affiliation to the club, and who has gone on to develop their business skills after retirement. Someone like Bomber Brown would tick all the boxes for in depth knowledge of the game, and a strong affiliation to this club, but sadly, he probably never went on to develop business or commercial skills after retirement. I'm not saying that is anything but par for the course for ex-professional footballers in this country.
But that's basically how we end up with the Dowlings of this world.
 
In that case, what about what Appleton brings yo the job as manager. He hasnt rested on his laurels and has hone out and improved himself, and has a Masters in Sports Directorship.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: chippyclarke on May 22, 2021, 09:28:04 AM
People say that Dowling will only buy British players - has he actually stated that at some time and if so when?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on May 22, 2021, 09:35:58 AM
I think its fair to say Dowling has made mistakes with player recruitment. I come back to what characteristics go into making a competent Football Director. Business and commercial skills, organisation and administrative competence and last but not least, in depth knowledge of the football industry and the judging of footballing skills. I get the impression he may be competent on most of those, but judging of football skills is the big one.
 

As little as 7/8 years ago Dowling was a scout as far as I can tell. Seemingly overnight he then gets a job in charge of our entire club. I’m not sure how it happened and I’d not assume his competence in the business, commercial or organisation departments either.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on May 22, 2021, 09:44:03 AM
People say that Dowling will only buy British players - has he actually stated that at some time and if so when?

It is not so much British players but the British market in general.

He doesn’t need to state it - the evidence is quite clear that he focuses on the UK market and will not broaden his horizons elsewhere.

Our most recent signings from oversees have been entirely manager/agent driven.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on May 22, 2021, 12:18:01 PM
It is not so much British players but the British market in general.

He doesn’t need to state it - the evidence is quite clear that he focuses on the UK market and will not broaden his horizons elsewhere.

Our most recent signings from oversees have been entirely manager/agent driven.

Some members of this forum have quite extensive knowledge of the new rules on employing non uk people following the changes this year.
From what they have said, a high percentage of overseas players do not fit the new criteria for working in this country.
Wouldn't that go some way to explaining why we have a preference for UK based players?

I have absolutely no knowledge of the inner workings for player recruitment, but in the modern era, I'd be surprised if we didn't have access to a global database of players.
The position of DoF, whoever was in post, would attract a network of selling & buying agents.
The club's coaching network would have access to knowledge about players, players talk amongst themselves, & finally, traditional scouts would find players.

Given the complexity of recruitment, I find it difficult to accept that "Fred's" unearthed a gem that we didn't already know about.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: hardtobeat on May 22, 2021, 12:22:04 PM
This is the first summer window that the new rules will have impacted on so any prior preference for UK based players will surely have been by choice .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on May 22, 2021, 12:27:45 PM
This is the first summer window that the new rules will have impacted on so any prior preference for UK based players will surely have been by choice .

TBH I'm not sure.

The new rules came into play in January, but how that impacted on contacts that were signed before then, but extended beyond then, I'm not sure.
Perhaps someone with more detailed knowledge can help?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 22, 2021, 12:59:39 PM
It is not so much British players but the British market in general.

He doesn’t need to state it - the evidence is quite clear that he focuses on the UK market and will not broaden his horizons elsewhere.

Our most recent signings from oversees have been entirely manager/agent driven.
Dowling considers his best ever signings Ben Watson and Glen Murray , that tells you everything .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 22, 2021, 01:07:50 PM
Some members of this forum have quite extensive knowledge of the new rules on employing non uk people following the changes this year.
From what they have said, a high percentage of overseas players do not fit the new criteria for working in this country.
Wouldn't that go some way to explaining why we have a preference for UK based players?

I have absolutely no knowledge of the inner workings for player recruitment, but in the modern era, I'd be surprised if we didn't have access to a global database of players.
The position of DoF, whoever was in post, would attract a network of selling & buying agents.
The club's coaching network would have access to knowledge about players, players talk amongst themselves, & finally, traditional scouts would find players.

Given the complexity of recruitment, I find it difficult to accept that "Fred's" unearthed a gem that we didn't already know about.
From memory (and I'd have to dig it out) but I believe the European / World scouting was pretty much scrapped / down graded during the Pulis era .
Ian Pearce is the head scout and from I've heard is told the markets to look in from above which as we know has been British based since Dowling came in .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on May 22, 2021, 01:19:27 PM
Dowling considers his best ever signings Ben Watson and Glen Murray , that tells you everything .

I’ve just looked to see when exactly he signed Murray as well. It was when Murray was on a free having just scored 22 goals in league one. So basically Dowling took him to Palace in the the Champ when I expect most Champjonship clubs would have been interested but Palace probably had the benefit of him not needing to up root.  Hardly plucked from nowhere.

Glenn Murray goes on to have a very unusual degree of success  in his mid 30s but it’s some years and a number of moves after Dowling signed him.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: paulosull on May 23, 2021, 10:22:08 AM
Have said it for a while we should relieve this bloke of his post as he's clearly in over his head. We should have or should poach the Brentford head of recruitment as he has proved year in year out that he can spot talent.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: hardtobeat on May 23, 2021, 10:26:12 AM
Just can’t see who can get rid of him? We seem to have nobody in overall charge. Ken is just a go between, doubts over ownership etc who exactly is numero uno ?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: MarkW on May 23, 2021, 10:28:56 AM
Have said it for a while we should relieve this bloke of his post as he's clearly in over his head. We should have or should poach the Brentford head of recruitment as he has proved year in year out that he can spot talent.

You would have to poach the entire setup, including the chairman, as it's the chairman's data company that drives their recruitment strategy. It's not as some as "Dowling bad, Lee Dykes good"
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: paulosull on May 23, 2021, 10:35:01 AM
You would have to poach the entire setup, including the chairman, as it's the chairman's data company that drives their recruitment strategy. It's not as some as "Dowling bad, Lee Dykes good"
only person you need is the one Analysing Data and picking the gem's
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 23, 2021, 10:45:00 AM
Our head of scouting is Ian Pearce, yet his name never gets brought up. We must have our own analytical team as well.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 23, 2021, 10:49:48 AM
Our head of scouting is Ian Pearce, yet his name never gets brought up. We must have our own analytical team as well.
See my post earlier , he's guided where to shop or at best he's being ignored .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: MarkW on May 23, 2021, 11:42:12 AM
only person you need is the one Analysing Data and picking the gem's

So we just need to buy Smartodds...cool

https://www.smartodds.co.uk/

There's no quick fix to go from where we are to where Brentford are, sadly.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: paulosull on May 23, 2021, 11:56:11 AM
So we just need to buy Smartodds...cool

https://www.smartodds.co.uk/

There's no quick fix to go from where we are to where Brentford are, sadly.
we ain't a basket case if Brentford fail to get promoted then if overtures were made to their personal in recruitment then I think they would see us as a better opportunity to succeed. So I say come on you Swans
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 23, 2021, 12:01:03 PM
Ian Pearce:
See my post earlier , he's guided where to shop or at best he's being ignored .

I presume this is just fan speculation and second guessing. None of us actually know each twist and turn that has gone on behind the scenes regarding transfers. Dowling seems like an easy fall guy and person to blame for the club finishing where it deserves to given the limited resources made available. I also find it interesting that Big Sam (who many are praising) seems to have enjoyed working with Dowling.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 23, 2021, 12:27:11 PM
I presume this is just fan speculation and second guessing. None of us actually know each twist and turn that has gone on behind the scenes regarding transfers. Dowling seems like an easy fall guy and person to blame for the club finishing where it deserves to given the limited resources made available. I also find it interesting that Big Sam (who many are praising) seems to have enjoyed working with Dowling.
He would do , same agency according to quite a few .
Doesn't need speculation  , the evidence is there regarding Dowling and his British first policy both at the Albion and other clubs he's been at . Correct me if I'm wrong but Pearce wasn't at those clubs with Dowling too was he ? .
I don't think anybody would argue about lack of funds but many including myself look back on the deals since Dowling arrived and in general the club going backwards .
When he arrived he spoke of plans , Ashworth and Albion DNA ....then we sign the likes of Mears , Montero and Peltier .
Its not all his fault but for me he's had long enough now , I'd like a fresh approach .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 23, 2021, 01:06:33 PM
He would do , same agency according to quite a few .
Doesn't need speculation  , the evidence is there regarding Dowling and his British first policy both at the Albion and other clubs he's been at . Correct me if I'm wrong but Pearce wasn't at those clubs with Dowling too was he? I don't think anybody would argue about lack of funds but many including myself look back on the deals since Dowling arrived and in general the club going backwards .
When he arrived he spoke of plans , Ashworth and Albion DNA ....then we sign the likes of Mears , Montero and Peltier. Its not all his fault but for me he's had long enough now , I'd like a fresh approach .

Yeah, I'm not really with you on that, we have had plenty of successful signings and failures over the past two years. Mears , Montero and Peltier are all irrelevant squad players.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 23, 2021, 02:16:14 PM
Yeah, I'm not really with you on that, we have had plenty of successful signings and failures over the past two years. Mears , Montero and Peltier are all irrelevant squad players.
Think it was 4 from 27 on a list in this thread , I don't call that anywhere near good enough . No signing is irrelevant , every bit of wage counts for clubs like us .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on May 23, 2021, 03:30:27 PM
As said before.
The wilderness years beckon.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: costa blanca baggie on May 23, 2021, 03:35:21 PM
As said before.
The wilderness years beckon.
Or the Wilderless. ☺️
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 23, 2021, 03:38:15 PM
As said before.
The wilderness years beckon.

Maybe but on the flip side Grady on right, Grant on the left, Pereira in the middle and a strong target man up front would reek havoc in the championship. Sign Okay to sit in front of the back four and replace Johnstone. Overall the squad is very light to sustain 46 games, that is probably the risk, and just goes to show how well the old coaching staff did.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on May 23, 2021, 03:39:38 PM
As said before.
The wilderness years beckon.

At least we will win more matches in league 1 and 2 in some fans eyes.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: wbasoprano on May 23, 2021, 06:18:02 PM
Maybe but on the flip side Grady on right, Grant on the left, Pereira in the middle and a strong target man up front would reek havoc in the championship. Sign Okay to sit in front of the back four and replace Johnstone. Overall the squad is very light to sustain 46 games, that is probably the risk, and just goes to show how well the old coaching staff did.

Sounds good except Pereira won't be here next season
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 23, 2021, 06:24:19 PM
Sounds good except Pereira won't be here next season

Three years left on his contract, whether we sell or not is the club's choice.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: wbasoprano on May 23, 2021, 06:26:49 PM
Three years left on his contract, whether we sell or not is the club's choice.
Agreed and the club will sell him
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on May 23, 2021, 06:29:37 PM
He would do , same agency according to quite a few .
Doesn't need speculation  , the evidence is there regarding Dowling and his British first policy both at the Albion and other clubs he's been at . Correct me if I'm wrong but Pearce wasn't at those clubs with Dowling too was he ? .
I don't think anybody would argue about lack of funds but many including myself look back on the deals since Dowling arrived and in general the club going backwards .
When he arrived he spoke of plans , Ashworth and Albion DNA ....then we sign the likes of Mears , Montero and Peltier .
Its not all his fault but for me he's had long enough now , I'd like a fresh approach .

Perfect time for a fresh approach to be taken by the Albion now.

New manager and a new director of football needed.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: FallOutBoy on May 23, 2021, 06:30:37 PM
I don't trust this guy to rebuild our squad, especially given the budget constraints.

Every window he's had with us the quality of the squad has gotten worse, until this past January when it was obvious Sam sorted us out.

He was about to get the sack from Forest for building a team not good enough for promotion when we inexplicably paid money to hire him, I would imagine he'll leave us similarly adrift of the Premier League before he's done.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on May 23, 2021, 07:21:32 PM
Why does he hire players, who the manager/coach won't play?
A total waste of money.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on May 23, 2021, 07:26:25 PM
Can’t believe he’s still in a job.

The Chinese must really think the sun shines out of his ****hole.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Aztech on May 23, 2021, 07:28:09 PM
Can’t believe he’s still on a job.

The Chinese must really think the sun shines out of his ****hole.

Let’s face it the owners don’t have a clue what’s required and probably think he’s doing a wonderful job.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 23, 2021, 07:53:19 PM
Let’s face it the owners don’t have a clue what’s required and probably think he’s doing a wonderful job.
Thats the only reason he's still in a job lets be honest . That list Liam put up of the signings under Dowlings watch should be a sackable offence .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on May 23, 2021, 08:00:02 PM
He is floundering and out of his depth.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggies_24 on May 23, 2021, 08:20:41 PM
Thats the only reason he's still in a job lets be honest . That list Liam put up of the signings under Dowlings watch should be a sackable offence .

Completely this, how Lai or his investment group have managed to run successful multi million pound businesses is beyond me. Lai doesn’t need to be a football expert but you’d expect them to be able to be able to have had some grasp by now what’s needed at boardroom level to start running a football club.

This season has been an abject failure, we all pretty much knew we’d be relegated but we’ve finished 13 points off 17th & only 3 infront of Sheffield United who were been labelled at one point the worst team in Premier League history. Allardyce was Dowlings call & has failed he should loose his job for it, the fact he’s still in charge shows how utterly clueless Lai / the board are. 
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: ex coseley kid on May 23, 2021, 08:39:45 PM
DOWLING OUT t shirts next season?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on May 23, 2021, 08:57:34 PM
Let’s face it the owners don’t have a clue what’s required and probably think he’s doing a wonderful job.

Shows how blinkered the Chinese really are if they think Luke Dowling’s presiding as DoF during the crawling over the promotion finishing line in 19/20 season and the disgrace of the 20/21 season is doing a wonderful job 👎🏻
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: tambag on May 23, 2021, 09:05:13 PM
His signings have been very questionable - Zohore as an example.  The most successful signings when were last in the championship were Pereira and Diagana and they were both Bilic signings.

I have doubts about him being able to appoint a new head coach especially if you are having to ask the leaving head coach for his opinion.  Thats his job to do not the head coach !

As for signings this summer I can see him going through the list of players who have 12 months left on their contracts and try and sign some of those, thats what did mainly two years ago.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dan on May 23, 2021, 09:08:34 PM
One of the things he needs to stop doing is being so reliant on loans. Loans with view to a permanent deal like Pereira are fine but it was obvious this season was doomed when we appeared to be spending most our time and money just trying to re-sign loan players from last season. We need to focus on building a team rather than having to keep plugging holes left by the loans every year. Not to mention relying on loans leaves at at the mercy of them being taken by the club if they do well come January. Now for next season the central midfield we've been playing for the last half a season are now all going back to their parent clubs leaving us with a massive rebuilding job there.....probably filled by more loans.

It says it all that in 3 years at the club he's still to find us anything approaching a decent permanent signing at centre forward. Grant you have to question if we even scouted given he was predomiantly a wide forward. Then the less said about the Zohore situation the better - was there a single fan of either Cardiff or West Brom who thought that was a decent deal? If we end up with another championship season reliant on Robson-Kanu up front, we'll deserve everything that happens.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: zippyandbungle on May 23, 2021, 11:49:30 PM
One of the things he needs to stop doing is being so reliant on loans. Loans with view to a permanent deal like Pereira are fine but it was obvious this season was doomed when we appeared to be spending most our time and money just trying to re-sign loan players from last season. We need to focus on building a team rather than having to keep plugging holes left by the loans every year. Not to mention relying on loans leaves at at the mercy of them being taken by the club if they do well come January. Now for next season the central midfield we've been playing for the last half a season are now all going back to their parent clubs leaving us with a massive rebuilding job there.....probably filled by more loans.

It says it all that in 3 years at the club he's still to find us anything approaching a decent permanent signing at centre forward. Grant you have to question if we even scouted given he was predomiantly a wide forward. Then the less said about the Zohore situation the better - was there a single fan of either Cardiff or West Brom who thought that was a decent deal? If we end up with another championship season reliant on Robson-Kanu up front, we'll deserve everything that happens.
Lukaku wasn’t loan to permanent.
What happened last time HRK was leading the line in the championship?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Mister AT on May 24, 2021, 12:14:42 AM
Lukaku wasn’t loan to permanent.
What happened last time HRK was leading the line in the championship?

We limped over the finish line with some help from Brentford being unable to capitalise.

We were fortunate that we had the goals shared across the team with Pereira, Austin etc all grabbing some.

If we go into next year with HRK as our main man, we will struggle to push for promotion. He’s a more than capable squad player but shouldn’t be expected to start 30-35games.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dan on May 24, 2021, 10:33:25 AM
Lukaku wasn’t loan to permanent.
What happened last time HRK was leading the line in the championship?

The difference is Lukaku was one player and we weren't left having to try and replace a 1/3 of the team every season because of loans.

HRK didn't manage a single shot on target March onwards last season and we would have blown promotion but for one of the great bottling acts by Brentford.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 24, 2021, 12:29:48 PM
The difference is Lukaku was one player and we weren't left having to try and replace a 1/3 of the team every season because of loans.

HRK didn't manage a single shot on target March onwards last season and we would have blown promotion but for one of the great bottling acts by Brentford.

This all comes back to finances. The reason we have had so many loan players in over the past two seasons is because we couldn’t afford to buy them permanently or they weren’t for sale. Good examples being Dwight Gayle and Harvey Barnes. We have used the loan market pretty astutely in my view. Hence our success in getting promotion.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: KN22 on May 24, 2021, 12:47:02 PM
This all comes back to finances. The reason we have had so many loan players in over the past two seasons is because we couldn’t afford to buy them permanently or they weren’t for sale. Good examples being Dwight Gayle and Harvey Barnes. We have used the loan market pretty astutely in my view. Hence our success in getting promotion.

Agreed. The one thing we have done well over the last few years is to use the loan system to our advantage.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 24, 2021, 12:58:19 PM
Agreed. The one thing we have done well over the last few years is to use the loan system to our advantage.
Does come back to the short term vision of the club right now  , not all the loans have worked out though . Montero and Murphy didn't add much .
We also now have to replace 4 players from pretty much our regular 11 in recent months , that's not good planning at all . Its like ripping a plaster off and putting a new one on each season with this lot in charge at the minute.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: MarkW on May 24, 2021, 12:59:23 PM
There's always a balance with loans. One or two players of quality to augment what we already have? Great. Papering over major squad deficiencies? Terrible.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 24, 2021, 01:03:51 PM
Theresa always a balance with loans. One or two players of quality to augment what we already have? Great. Papering over major squad deficiencies? Terrible.
One of the reason's we have to paper over the cracks is because the bloke who this topic is about has had too many transfers under his watch not work out and worse contracts go up in wages when those players weren't even playing in the likes of Austin/Grosiki .
Nothing personal but I'd like a fresh set of eyes and new direction on this now .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on May 24, 2021, 01:14:41 PM
He keeps proving his inabilities.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on May 24, 2021, 01:16:55 PM
Agree with everything you've said there Dexy, especially the plaster analogy.

Like Mark says, a couple of loan deals to supplement full time recruitment is fine but the amount we rely in the loan market just makes Dowling look like Del Boy, which is quite apt, because I see him as a town centre market trader rather than a big city businessman.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WBA on May 24, 2021, 02:25:51 PM
When do we get the 'state of the nation' press release and 2021/2 battle-cry? 
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on May 24, 2021, 02:42:04 PM
Does come back to the short term vision of the club right now  , not all the loans have worked out though . Montero and Murphy didn't add much .
We also now have to replace 4 players from pretty much our regular 11 in recent months , that's not good planning at all . Its like ripping a plaster off and putting a new one on each season with this lot in charge at the minute.

While there's no cash input from the owner, I think it's likely we'll use the loan market quite extensively again this summer.

Although the players are not yours, there is no long term commitment either, so, in some ways, there's an element of safety built in if they fail.
As you say, we have 4 loan players that we now have to replace, but had we stayed up, the chances are we would have retained them.

I'm confident that this season's loanees will be replaced by 4 other loanees suitable for a season in the Championship.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 24, 2021, 03:16:01 PM
He keeps proving his inabilities.

Last season on the back of everyone's efforts we got automatic promotion and this season we got what we deserved an immediate relegation. It's not realistic to expect a club with our budget over the past 24 months to compete in the premiership, and everyone on here throwing mud at the director of football would do well to remember that and be more realistic in their expectations. I see comments like "not all loan signings have worked out though" which is a fanciful and bizarre mindset. How many players did Alex Ferguson sign that were terrible? The reason I'm reluctant to throw much shade at our DOF is that the clubs performance over the last three seasons has been above or at least consistent with what could be expected given our meagre resources.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on May 24, 2021, 03:19:39 PM
I'd be interested to know what our "churn rate' is compared to other clubs, off to google....
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on May 24, 2021, 04:42:43 PM
Last season on the back of everyone's efforts we got automatic promotion and this season we got what we deserved an immediate relegation. It's not realistic to expect a club with our budget over the past 24 months to compete in the premiership, and everyone on here throwing mud at the director of football would do well to remember that and be more realistic in their expectations. I see comments like "not all loan signings have worked out though" which is a fanciful and bizarre mindset. How many players did Alex Ferguson sign that were terrible? The reason I'm reluctant to throw much shade at our DOF is that the clubs performance over the last three seasons has been above or at least consistent with what could be expected given our meagre resources.

I can't argue about the meagre resources, but, as I've said before, I'm not sure I'd have gone into the transfer market with only £20 odd million to spend.

In January, we brought in reinforcements for transfer fees of around £1 million, the rest of the spend was on loan fees & wages.

Think you've used the analogy of buying a house in arguments in the past, perhaps last summer was the time to rent instead.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Oldbury24 on May 24, 2021, 04:48:25 PM
I can't argue about the meagre resources, but, as I've said before, I'm not sure I'd have gone into the transfer market with only £20 odd million to spend.

In January, we brought in reinforcements for transfer fees of around £1 million, the rest of the spend was on loan fees & wages.

Think you've used the analogy of buying a house in arguments in the past, perhaps last summer was the time to rent instead.

You can please all of the people etc......Another thread on here is bemoaning the amount of loans we use to bolster the squad. 

For a club of our status, which is currently in yoyo land, loans and at best loans to perm will be vital.  The key is which loan shark you use....Dowling needs to show he can really use the international market better next year.  We did this to an extent under SA bringing in OK and Diagne so there is hope.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: boinging_along on May 24, 2021, 05:15:34 PM
You can please all of the people etc......Another thread on here is bemoaning the amount of loans we use to bolster the squad. 

For a club of our status, which is currently in yoyo land, loans and at best loans to perm will be vital.  The key is which loan shark you use....Dowling needs to show he can really use the international market better next year.  We did this to an extent under SA bringing in OK and Diagne so there is hope.

It's difficult though if the loans are a failure then odds on you've not done well.  If they succeed then you start the next season behind the line - you need to spend just to get yourselves back to the promotion squad.

I'm not sure there's an answer really.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on May 24, 2021, 05:16:46 PM
You can please all of the people etc......Another thread on here is bemoaning the amount of loans we use to bolster the squad. 

For a club of our status, which is currently in yoyo land, loans and at best loans to perm will be vital.  The key is which loan shark you use....Dowling needs to show he can really use the international market better next year.  We did this to an extent under SA bringing in OK and Diagne so there is hope.

It really depends on the quality of players available in the loans market. At the moment, due to covid, & clubs are trying to unload cost of wages, there's some really good players about even if you restrict yourself to the UK market.
Pretty sure it was the loans market that Jenkins was referring to when he said there would be some bargains to be had.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 24, 2021, 05:26:47 PM
It really depends on the quality of players available in the loans market. At the moment, due to covid, & clubs are trying to unload cost of wages, there's some really good players about even if you restrict yourself to the UK market. Pretty sure it was the loans market that Jenkins was referring to when he said there would be some bargains to be had.

It makes sense to case the net as far and wide as possible but that doesn't mean that international market is the holy grail and the answer to all of our problems. The scouting systems of clubs is far improved from the early 2000s when it was easier to pick up a Mulumbu, Yacob and Odemwinge overlooked by others. Allardyce explained that we made enquires for over 200 players in the January window alone. Nobody complained that Harvey Barnes was recruited from Leicester. Ultimately, all we care about is getting the right quality of player in. Although it would help if the club stopped switching managers every summer so that we gave a manager the time and space to build a squad rather than sacking / hiring coaches that don't want to work with the players we have and/or play to their strengths.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on May 24, 2021, 05:41:08 PM
Personally I’ve no problem with loans, but they should be a supplement to a squad and not be the core of it. Too much of the team we finished the season with was on loan, which was out of necessity in the end but poor planning and spending elsewhere created that situation.

If I were DOF I’d have a plan to address the first 11 over a three / four year period. It won’t always be possible to follow that plan either but I’d have one in mind.  Any manager would need to buy in to it albeit id also need to be flexible to the managers wants and needs at times too.  That’s one or two times a year though, not 5 signings a window.

The times it’s not possible to follow the plan it is hopefully because a player has excelled and a good fee has come in but some signings will fail.  Loans can help supplement the failures.

 

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Oldbury24 on May 24, 2021, 06:00:53 PM
Personally I’ve no problem with loans, but they should be a supplement to a squad and not be the core of it. Too much of the team we finished the season with was on loan, which was out of necessity in the end but poor planning and spending elsewhere created that situation.

If I were DOF I’d have a plan to address the first 11 over a three / four year period. It won’t always be possible to follow that plan either but I’d have one in mind.  Any manager would need to buy in to it albeit id also need to be flexible to the managers wants and needs at times too.  That’s one or two times a year though, not 5 signings a window.

The times it’s not possible to follow the plan it is hopefully because a player has excelled and a good fee has come in but some signings will fail.  Loans can help supplement the failures.

This does come back to a point I was making earlier.  Are we operating on a DOF model with a coach supporting OR a more traditional model with the manager arranging his own recruitment. Both have worked well for us in the past but what doesn't work is a half arsed version where no one person seem a to be in charge...which is where we ended up last season.

Either trust your DOF and recruitment team to get in the right players for a coach to work with or give that role to a manager   We need to understand where the buck stops.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: boinging_along on May 24, 2021, 06:04:48 PM
I suppose one fix for the loans is to do what we did with Pierera and have a buy clause built in at a reasonable value.

It'll really limit your loan market though.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 24, 2021, 11:10:55 PM
Last season on the back of everyone's efforts we got automatic promotion and this season we got what we deserved an immediate relegation. It's not realistic to expect a club with our budget over the past 24 months to compete in the premiership, and everyone on here throwing mud at the director of football would do well to remember that and be more realistic in their expectations. I see comments like "not all loan signings have worked out though" which is a fanciful and bizarre mindset. How many players did Alex Ferguson sign that were terrible? The reason I'm reluctant to throw much shade at our DOF is that the clubs performance over the last three seasons has been above or at least consistent with what could be expected given our meagre resources.
We fell over the line and only because Brentford blew up , I don't see many throwing mud in all fairness but I do see a list of signings a few pages back since Dowling has been here that the majority are A. Not good enough and B . Poor value for money although net wise that will be masked with SJ and MP leaving and neither were anything to do with Dowling.
You can bring up Barnes ( Dowling wasn't here was then was he ? ) just as I can offer you a Montero or Murphy as his replacement when Leicester recalled him in the Winter window.
Nobody would argue about our lack of Summer funds but I would point back to the season before , Zohore / Grosiki / Austin all on decent money . 2 of those have done very little and we will see a poor return both money wise and on the pitch . I like Austin but bringing him here on a 2 year deal with a one year option and a decent rise if we got up is poor business , its worse when he didn't really suit Bilic's style and eventually lost his place to HRK . There is the arguement we got up so the riches came in but thats not a lot of fun on a matchday when he's not even making the bench and like Zohore we have to pay a big wedge just to get them out on loan .
I wouldn't mind if Dowling had a clear plan but one minute its Austins(short term )then when we need somebody its one for the squad like Kipre who Bilic and Sam wouldn't touch at all .
I can't be the only one worried about a large rebuild via the SJ and MP money with this bloke lurking .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: MarkW on May 25, 2021, 08:56:01 AM
We fell over the line and only because Brentford blew up , I don't see many throwing mud in all fairness but I do see a list of signings a few pages back since Dowling has been here that the majority are A. Not good enough and B . Poor value for money although net wise that will be masked with SJ and MP leaving and neither were anything to do with Dowling.
You can bring up Barnes ( Dowling wasn't here was then was he ? ) just as I can offer you a Montero or Murphy as his replacement when Leicester recalled him in the Winter window.
Nobody would argue about our lack of Summer funds but I would point back to the season before , Zohore / Grosiki / Austin all on decent money . 2 of those have done very little and we will see a poor return both money wise and on the pitch . I like Austin but bringing him here on a 2 year deal with a one year option and a decent rise if we got up is poor business , its worse when he didn't really suit Bilic's style and eventually lost his place to HRK . There is the arguement we got up so the riches came in but thats not a lot of fun on a matchday when he's not even making the bench and like Zohore we have to pay a big wedge just to get them out on loan .
I wouldn't mind if Dowling had a clear plan but one minute its Austins(short term )then when we need somebody its one for the squad like Kipre who Bilic and Sam wouldn't touch at all .
I can't be the only one worried about a large rebuild via the SJ and MP money with this bloke lurking .

You're right - Barnes came in the summer before Dowling was appointed. All of Big Dave's summer signings were before Dowling came in.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: boinging_along on May 25, 2021, 10:45:17 AM
My worry is that we get the cash for SJ and MP in but it's not really added to a war chest, just that the same amount will be available and the money will just be absorbed.  Obviously it would never happen, but would be nice for the club to say "we have a £15m budget plus whatever we get on player sales".
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 25, 2021, 10:46:59 AM
My worry is that we get the cash for SJ and MP in but it's not really added to a war chest, just that the same amount will be available and the money will just be absorbed.  Obviously it would never happen, but would be nice for the club to say "we have a £15m budget plus whatever we get on player sales".
More than anything I think the short term solutions need to stop .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 25, 2021, 10:56:54 AM
While there's no cash input from the owner, I think it's likely we'll use the loan market quite extensively again this summer.

Although the players are not yours, there is no long term commitment either, so, in some ways, there's an element of safety built in if they fail.
As you say, we have 4 loan players that we now have to replace, but had we stayed up, the chances are we would have retained them.

I'm confident that this season's loanees will be replaced by 4 other loanees suitable for a season in the Championship.
From a business point of view that makes perfect sense John but actually loading up your squad with loan players each year wouldn't be healthy .
Our better sides in recent years have had a solid spine of longer term players .
To build a base / spine then add a few loan players is the way to go .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 25, 2021, 12:29:20 PM
We fell over the line and only because Brentford blew up

It's called success Dexy. I can only pray we fall over the line this season.

I chopped out the rest of your post commenting on the merits of the players we have signed as a) I think your expectations on how successful our transfer activity should be against our resources are unrealistic, b) I don't agree with you on the success of players like Austin etc and c) we have talked about this a million times so don't want to go around the houses again.

The only thing I can guarantee is that whoever we sign this summer that turns out to be a success will be met with cries in a year of "that was nothing to do with Dowling"....as many forum members have a direct line into the club scouting department and transfer negotiations, or that's the impression they like to pass off.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 25, 2021, 12:41:10 PM
It's called success Dexy. I can only pray we fall over the line this season.

I chopped out the rest of your post commenting on the merits of the players we have signed as a) I think your expectations on how successful our transfer activity should be against our resources are unrealistic, b) I don't agree with you on the success of players like Austin etc and c) we have talked about this a million times so don't want to go around the houses again.

The only thing I can guarantee is that whoever we sign this summer that turns out to be a success will be met with cries in a year of "that was nothing to do with Dowling"....as many forum members have a direct line into the club scouting department and transfer negotiations, or that's the impression they like to pass off.
I called it a warning , one that between Dowling and Slav they made a mess of in the Summer. If your going to debate with me have the manners not to chop my post , it doesn't look good on you Baggie 82 .  You think Austin , Grosiki and Zohore were good business from Dowling ? Ok if thats your view , that list of signings since Dowling arrived both from him and ones he has over seen says it all and I'm not alone in saying that .
Point B , resources ....biggest budget in the Champs and yes we got up but had players like Austin , Zohore and Grosiki not playing the next season . Zohore barely got a game in that league , all on good deals . That impacts on the next season Premier budget hugely for a club like ours.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 25, 2021, 12:50:20 PM
I called it a warning , one that between Dowling and Slav they made a mess of in the Summer. If your going to debate with me have the manners not to chop my post , it doesn't look good on you Baggie 82 .  You think Austin , Grosiki and Zohore were good business from Dowling ? Ok if thats your view , that list of signings since Dowling arrived both from him and ones he has over seen says it all and I'm not alone in saying that .


To answer your query on the three signings your have cherry picked:
-Austin: Without him we would not have got promoted, he was a success, brought in to score the goals to get us up and he pretty much did that.
-Zohore: Failure and waste of money, reeked of a panic buy.
-Grosicki: Very talented player, criminally underused. No substantial transfer fee spent on him. Again he played his part in our promotion season at a point when the squad was declining. There was clearly something going on with his contract and wages last season and there was that farce with him being sold after deadline day in January. We paid £800k for Grosicki - how many times do you a Polish international with 100 appearances for that.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 25, 2021, 01:05:17 PM

To answer your query on the three signings your have cherry picked:
-Austin: Without him we would not have got promoted, he was a success, brought in to score the goals to get us up and he pretty much did that.
-Zohore: Failure and waste of money, reeked of a panic buy.
-Grosicki: Very talented player, criminally underused. No substantial transfer fee spent on him. Again he played his part in our promotion season at a point when the squad was declining. There was clearly something going on with his contract and wages last season and there was that farce with him being sold after deadline day in January. We paid £800k for Grosicki - how many times do you a Polish international with 100 appearances for that.
I haven't cherry picked anybody , I use those 3 as they are Dowling lead . We had some usage from Austin but really it was a bad fit from day one on good money .I think saying Grosiki played his part is pushing it other than Hull at home , another decent money that went up in and we'll see little return hence why the club tried to unload him to Forest.
There's a huge list of deals other than those three a few pages back , I'm not saying anything that isn't clearly right there . You can call it mud slinging or what you want , it isn't from me . No structure , no pattern of signings, no forward thinking . Its putting bigger and bigger plasters over weak areas each window .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 25, 2021, 01:18:40 PM
I haven't cherry picked anybody , I use those 3 as they are Dowling lead . We had some usage from Austin but really it was a bad fit from day one on good money .I think saying Grosiki played his part is pushing it other than Hull at home , another decent money that went up in and we'll see little return hence why the club tried to unload him to Forest.
There's a huge list of deals other than those three a few pages back , I'm not saying anything that isn't clearly right there . You can call it mud slinging or what you want , it isn't from me . No structure , no pattern of signings, no forward thinking . Its putting bigger and bigger plasters over weak areas each window .

It's all about opinions. If we now sold all the players we have bought over the past two seasons we would end up with a lot more money in than we have paid out and these signings are part of a promotion team.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: GREGMT on May 25, 2021, 01:20:48 PM
In 2019/20 Bilic earnt WBA a £100m+ pay day.  This wasn't achieved in 2018/19 under Moore and Shan.

People picking holes about whether signings for £5m or less were VFM is small time IMO.

Facts:

- Smith kept Villa up by skin of their teeth spending £100m in one season.
- Parker has spent £100m+ this season and relegated Fulham.
- How were WBA going tostay up this season with a £20m net spend?  Near Impossible.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on May 25, 2021, 01:23:10 PM
It's all about opinions. If we now sold all the players we have bought over the past two seasons we would end up with a lot more money in than we have paid out and these signings are part of a promotion team.

I would normally be more aligned to your view 82, BUT,

1 exceptional talent tips the scales dramatically in that equation, remove Periera and then judge?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 25, 2021, 01:26:50 PM
In 2019/20 Bilic earnt WBA a £100m+ pay day.  This wasn't achieved in 2018/19 under Moore and Shan.

People picking holes about whether signings for £5m or less were VFM is small time IMO.

Facts:

- Smith kept Villa up by skin of their teeth spending £100m in one season.
- Parker has spent £100m+ this season and relegated Fulham.
- How were WBA going tostay up this season with a £20m net spend?  Near Impossible.

Well said GREGMT. When standing back and looking at everything as whole I don't see any correlation between the attitude of some on here to our DOF and what is realistic. Alex Ferguson, the greatest manager of all time signed Bebe, Kleberson, Taibi, Diouf, Obertan & Djemba-Djemba.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WorcsWBA on May 25, 2021, 01:47:02 PM
As Dowling's still here, I assume they're not going to sack him before a new manager is appointed and, presumably, not this summer. As he's the only one on the Board that knows anything at all about football. perhaps they don't want to be having to replace him and the manager at the same time?

Getting rid of Dowling now would easily delay the appointment of a manger by a month or even longer. He should really have gone a month ago.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: GREGMT on May 25, 2021, 01:47:09 PM
Well said GREGMT. When standing back and looking at everything as whole I don't see any correlation between the attitude of some on here to our DOF and what is realistic. Alex Ferguson, the greatest manager of all time signed Bebe, Kleberson, Taibi, Diouf, Obertan & Djemba-Djemba.

Exactly. 

How can all signings at a football club be a success?  It's impossible! 

Just highlights what an exceptional job Dan Ashworth did in that 8 year period.

Trouble is people are expecting this as the norm, when instead it was an exceptional set of circumstances.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 26, 2021, 11:02:02 AM
These are his signings during his time at this football club

2018/2019

Stefan Johansen - loan -
Jefferson Montero - loan -
Mason Holgate - loan -
Jacob Murphy - loan -
Bakery Sako - short term deal -

2019/20

Kenneth Zohore - £5m -
Charlie Austin - £4m -
Romaine Sawyers - £3m -
Darnel Furlong - £1.5m -
Semi Ajayi - £1.5m -
Matheus Pereira - loan -
Ali Al Habsi- short term deal
Filip Krovinovic-
Grady Diangana - loan -
Chris Willock - loan -
Kamil Grosicki - £750k -
Lee Peltier - free -
Callum Robinson - loan

2020/21

Karlan Grant - £15m -
Grady Diangana - £14m -
Matheus Pereira - £8m -
David Button - £1m -
Cedric Kipre - £1m -
Bran Ivanovic - free -
Callum Robinson - swap -
Conor Gallagher - loan
Filip Krovinovic - loan -
Mbaye Diange - loan -
Robert Snodgrass - £1m -
Maitland Niles - loan -
Andy Lonergsn - free -
Okay Yokuslu - loan -

That is 32 signings under his stewardship - there are 7 successes and you can argue that Pereira (x2) Diangana, Yokuslu and AMN were heavily manager influenced.

What a thoroughly uninspiring piece of recruitment.
Just a reminder of the list since Dowling took over , I don't see much return from that other than SJ (bought before Dowling ) , Grady / MP (Bilic ) . Grant maybe but I'm not convinced and nothing like the deal agreed for him .
While I know it's not all Dowling's fault he is a key cog in the way things are run , in fairness I haven't bought up the Academy issues and the staff falling out with him because I don't know enough about it .
I've nothing personal against Dowling but the above is not good reading and while nobody expects every transfer to work I'd hope for a better record than that . I hear he's all over Joe Worrell at Forest who is no better than what we have but as Dowling appears to be staying lets hope he learns from the last 3 years both in terms of on the pitch and how he lays finance out .Short term deals / ageing players are not the answer .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 26, 2021, 11:14:01 AM
It's all about opinions. If we now sold all the players we have bought over the past two seasons we would end up with a lot more money in than we have paid out and these signings are part of a promotion team.
I don't see a lot of return in that lot or the wage bill , SJ/MP are going to mask a lot .
All about opinions as you say but I'm not filled with confidence in Dowling right now .
2019/20

Kenneth Zohore - £8m - failure
Charlie Austin - £4m - meh
Romaine Sawyers - £3m - meh
Darnel Furlong - £1.5m - meh
Semi Ajayi - £1.5m - meh
Matheus Pereira - loan - success
Ali Al Habsi- short term deal
Filip Krovinovic- meh
Grady Diangana - loan - success
Chris Willock - loan - failure
Kamil Grosicki - £750k - failure
Lee Peltier - free - failure
Callum Robinson - loan - meh

2020/21

Karlan Grant - £15m - failure
Grady Diangana - £14m - failure
Matheus Pereira - £8m - success
David Button - £1m - meh
Cedric Kipre - £1m - failure
Bran Ivanovic - free - failure
Callum Robinson - swap - failure
Conor Gallagher - success
Filip Krovinovic - loan - failure
Mbaye Diange - loan - meh
Robert Snodgrass - £1m - failure
Maitland Niles - loan - success
Andy Lonergsn - free - meh
Okay Yokuslu - loan - success
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SmethDan on May 26, 2021, 11:32:01 AM
Zohore cost nowhere near £8,000,000. From memory it's about half of that thus far with the rest dependent on a series of clauses which are unlikely to be met in full all be it one of them would have been promotion. His contract will be a bind but he did at least bang a few penalties in which added to the points total.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on May 26, 2021, 11:36:15 AM
A bit off topic but I love how people always pick well publicised poor Fergie signings across a 30 year spell  to demonstrate how everyone gets it wrong. 

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on May 26, 2021, 11:36:51 AM
I'm not going to say who led what deal, be it Bilic / Dowling or Allardyce or SmethDan is irrelevant as they signed for WBAFC ltd, that said, individual successes or failures, I am prepared to accept that the list could be heavily weighted with players who were "judged worth a punt" BUT having now seen them perform there are few "were worth a punt".

Dowling who surely holds the veto is therefore clearly not a good judge of potential or for that matter experience (Bran / Peltier / Button / Snod) and cannot be allowed to continue to fritter away our future.

I have long advocated a DoF - continuity model, BUT, despite us having a DoF in place, looking at that list that is so obviously influenced by lurches in management approach, I do wonder if its impossible to have a head coach who buys into a squad and club ethos and will therefore leaving a legacy like that is inevitable, or is it simply that Dowling hasn't been capable / strong enough ???


i'm rambling, but bottom line is Lai / Ken / GKW cannot let this continue ad nauseum
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: AidantheBaggies on May 26, 2021, 11:37:54 AM
If there was any accountability at the club then Dowling would be gone. The man has been a disaster, surely now is a good time to bring someone new in with fresh ideas to work with the new head coach?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on May 26, 2021, 11:43:36 AM
Zohore cost nowhere near £8,000,000. From memory it's about half of that thus far with the rest dependent on a series of clauses which are unlikely to be met in full all be it one of them would have been promotion. His contract will be a bind but he did at least bang a few penalties in which added to the points total.
Fair point Dan but you'd be lucky to get 3m for him now.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on May 26, 2021, 11:46:46 AM
Although it’s true we will never know the full ins and outs of all deals I don’t accept that there isn’t enough information available publicly to apportion some signings and make educated guesses. Some of the more obvious ones include:

Pereira - Bilic.   He is on record as saying Pereira was recommended to him by a contact of his.
Krov - Bilic. Young Croatian player I who is highly likely to have been known to Bilic.
Diangana - Bilic. Again I believe is on record as saying he knew him from his time at West Ham.
Kipre - Dowling. Kipre is on record saying Bilic never even spoke to him when he signed.
Zohore - Dowling. Local reporters have suggested as much and Bilic never seemed to favour him.

There is some ‘good signing manager, bad signing dowling’  belief it seems but there’s also some good reasons why that attitude has taken hold.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on May 26, 2021, 11:50:17 AM
If there was any accountability at the club then Dowling would be gone. The man has been a disaster, surely now is a good time to bring someone new in with fresh ideas to work with the new head coach?


You'd think so. We are screaming out for it but the people above Dowling know less about football than anyone.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on May 26, 2021, 11:54:18 AM
Although it’s true we will never know the full ins and outs of all deals I don’t accept that there isn’t enough information available publicly to apportion some signings and make educated guesses. Some of the more obvious ones include:

Pereira - Bilic.   He is on record as saying Pereira was recommended to him by a contact of his.
Krov - Bilic. Young Croatian player I who is highly likely to have been known to Bilic.
Diangana - Bilic. Again I believe is on record as saying he knew him from his time at West Ham.
Kipre - Dowling. Kipre is on record saying Bilic never even spoke to him when he signed.
Zohore - Dowling. Local reporters have suggested as much and Bilic never seemed to favour him.

There is some ‘good signing manager, bad signing dowling’  belief it seems but there’s also some good reasons why that attitude has taken hold.

I agree Johnny, but I was trying to get my personal blinkers off, and not start another Bilic / Allardyce / Dowling responsibility debate.  I am pondering if its a Dowling or the DoF model thats root cause  or indeed just lack of cash
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: AidantheBaggies on May 26, 2021, 11:54:48 AM

You'd think so. We are screaming out for it but the people above Dowling know less about football than anyone.

Absolutely…..which is why I have no faith in the management of the club what so ever. Has 'Ken' ever done an interview? It would be interesting to hear what he has to say.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on May 26, 2021, 11:56:14 AM
Absolutely…..which is why I have no faith in the management of the club what so ever. Has 'Ken' ever done an interview? It would be interesting to hear what he has to say.

I would be interested in what any of them have to say but they know they are out of their depth so they won't gain anything from speaking.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: smethwickw on May 26, 2021, 12:07:54 PM
I agree Johnny, but I was trying to get my personal blinkers off, and not start another Bilic / Allardyce / Dowling responsibility debate.  I am pondering if its a Dowling or the DoF model thats root cause  or indeed just lack of cash

We did OK in the past with Ashworth in charge. I think Dowling has been poor and his reluctance to look abroad is very frustrating. Especially with the lack of cash you'd think that would be the first place to look.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on May 26, 2021, 12:09:32 PM
I agree Johnny, but I was trying to get my personal blinkers off, and not start another Bilic / Allardyce / Dowling responsibility debate.  I am pondering if its a Dowling or the DoF model thats root cause  or indeed just lack of cash


There is a lack of cash at the PL obviously but the money that was spent was spent pretty poorly. Dowling is, essentially, supposed to be getting us value for money signings. He's not doing that.
Title: Luke Dowlings tenure
Post by: Albionic on May 26, 2021, 12:28:58 PM
I have opened the above poll for 10 days
Title: Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on May 26, 2021, 12:34:27 PM
So far. Not a glowing report.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: seteefeet on May 26, 2021, 02:13:34 PM
We did OK in the past with Ashworth in charge. I think Dowling has been poor and his reluctance to look abroad is very frustrating. Especially with the lack of cash you'd think that would be the first place to look.
Playing devil's advocate.
In Ashworth's first 3 seasons we went up, down, up

In Dowling's first 3 we lost in play offs, went up, went down.

Not a great deal of difference really. Ashworth's value really showed when he kept us up, but he didn't do that until the second time of asking.

By no means a fan of Dowling's just highlighting the fact that it is not all doom and gloom, as some are making out, and Ashworth had us on a similar trajectory.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SmethDan on May 26, 2021, 04:13:57 PM
Fair point Dan but you'd be lucky to get 3m for him now.

Despite the value of the points gained his value to West Bromwich Albion has effectively dropped since he put pen to paper. It dropped even further following a handful of performances and cameos despite the occasional glimpse of life. I'd be interested to know if Millwall paid a loan fee or just covered some of his wages.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 26, 2021, 06:25:42 PM
Playing devil's advocate.
In Ashworth's first 3 seasons we went up, down, up

In Dowling's first 3 we lost in play offs, went up, went down.

Not a great deal of difference really. Ashworth's value really showed when he kept us up, but he didn't do that until the second time of asking.

By no means a fan of Dowling's just highlighting the fact that it is not all doom and gloom, as some are making out, and Ashworth had us on a similar trajectory.

Under DA the squad gradually improved/took shape. Have got to look beyond absolutes like season outcomes when discussing a DOF imo.

Nothing wrong with the model unless you get the wrong person in situ and seemingly can't or won't remove them.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: FallOutBoy on May 26, 2021, 07:27:34 PM
Under DA the squad gradually improved/took shape. Have got to look beyond absolutes like season outcomes when discussing a DOF imo.

Nothing wrong with the model unless you get the wrong person in situ and seemingly can't or won't remove them.

This exactly. We may have had a mixed bag season-on-season, but overall the team / squad was improving all the time.

Look at the team when Dowling took the job and look at it now. The quality has dropped off a cliff.
Title: Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
Post by: baggie82 on May 26, 2021, 09:05:16 PM
So far. Not a glowing report.

Just goes to show that a lot of fans have unrealistic expectations. As seteefeet said, in three seasons, play offs, promotion and nailed-on relegation. Pretty impressive with our budget. Dexy has posted a big list of the all signings from 19/20 and he marked most of them as failures. We got automatic promotion of the back off that transfer window earning the club hundreds of millions of pounds! It's laughable.
Title: Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
Post by: baggie38 on May 26, 2021, 09:23:53 PM
Just goes to show that a lot of fans have unrealistic expectations. As seteefeet said, in three seasons, play offs, promotion and nailed-on relegation. Pretty impressive with our budget. Dexy has posted a big list of the all signings from 19/20 and he marked most of them as failures. We got automatic promotion of the back off that transfer window earning the club hundreds of millions of pounds! It's laughable.

It wasn't just Dowlings signings that got us up was it there was a squad of players here from previous seasons and when you strip the squad down the majority of them have been poor even embarrassing. The two notable successes weren't even his signings in MP and GD. Look at last summer what he and Billic brought in was a farce


Krovinovic - lasted 6 months of the season only to have his loan terminated.
Ivanovic - embarrassing. One of the worst bits of businesses we have ever done.
Karlan Grant - massive flop given the fee we are paying.
Pereira - Repeat business
Diangana - Hasn't worked yet and he went against Billic advice by buying him instead of getting him on loan.


Dowling is a farce and sooner he is gone the better.
Title: Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
Post by: Dexy on May 26, 2021, 09:35:34 PM
Just goes to show that a lot of fans have unrealistic expectations. As seteefeet said, in three seasons, play offs, promotion and nailed-on relegation. Pretty impressive with our budget. Dexy has posted a big list of the all signings from 19/20 and he marked most of them as failures. We got automatic promotion of the back off that transfer window earning the club hundreds of millions of pounds! It's laughable.
I think you are the only one with unrealistic expectations mate , again you play the budget card yet that promotion season had a lot of funds . As hard as it maybe is we need players with a view to getting up and coping with the Premier League not gambling money on Austin , Zohore and the likes .
Again nobody argues last Summers funds were poor but as I and many have posted to you those funds could have been used better , Dowling's falling out with Bilic and British first policy killed us before a ball was kicked .
He isn't going anywhere so I can only hope he looks back and learns .
Oh by the way I didn't  mark those players but I do agree with 99% of it .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: BaggieNick on May 26, 2021, 11:47:36 PM
I'm still puzzled as to how anyone an defend his incompetence. I would also ask the folk who voted for the 'ok given what he has to work with' option what they think of the fact he blew almost our entire transfer budget on two players who couldn't get a game.

At the best I hope he goes at worst I hope he learns from the shambles of last summer.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: boinging_along on May 27, 2021, 09:51:10 AM
I would also ask the folk who voted for the 'ok given what he has to work with' option what they think of the fact he blew almost our entire transfer budget on two players who couldn't get a game.

More a damning indictment of the manager for me.  Diangana should definitely have been given more of a run out.  He criminally underused Robinson, and Grant's hardly been given a chance.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WorcsWBA on May 27, 2021, 11:32:37 AM
Absolutely…..which is why I have no faith in the management of the club what so ever. Has 'Ken' ever done an interview? It would be interesting to hear what he has to say.
The rare, lesser-spotted Ken was seen on Tuesday evening - presenting awards to Albion's U11/12 girl players! Link (https://twitter.com/WBAWomen/status/1397648787540226048)
Title: Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on May 27, 2021, 12:24:07 PM
Just goes to show that a lot of fans have unrealistic expectations. As seteefeet said, in three seasons, play offs, promotion and nailed-on relegation. Pretty impressive with our budget. Dexy has posted a big list of the all signings from 19/20 and he marked most of them as failures. We got automatic promotion of the back off that transfer window earning the club hundreds of millions of pounds! It's laughable.

Whether a matter is unrealistic is a matter of your personal opinion, but we cannot just sit here and blaming the budget and the finances to mask what some may consider an appalling job he is doing.

How much money does he have to be given before we can judge his performance accordingly?

Lets face it - this club has not been awash with money and the fans have been able to judge the likes of Ashworth, Garlick, Hammond and Terraneo despite working to similar constraints.

Both 2019/20 and 2020/21 have seen us spend monies - whether you agree with the allocated amounts - which could have been used smartly to address the weaknesses within this squad.

2019/20

The two real successful signings of that season are Pereira and Diangana who are both widely attributed to be Bilic signings.

The rest of very much of a muchness - there are no stand out talents, just merely average footballers who will likely spend the majority of their careers playing championship (or lower level football).

I'm not even going to comment on the pathetic waste of monies on Zohore. Austin might have came for a fee and high wages but at least he provided a contribution.

The comparison was drawn to Ashworth - but he built a side which could succeed in the championship but had the nucleus of being a Premier League side (as an example, Brunt, Morrison, Mulumu, Olsson, Tamas). He then added to it with the smart recruitment of the likes of Odemwingie for peanuts whereas we opted for nigh on £15m for Grant and both players are not comparable.

How much of our current crop do you reckon we can form a side that could enable to survive in the PL? Ajayi, Furlong, Sawyers are not PL quality and that is the difference between the two.

As for last season:

The pursual of getting the old band back together which from December onwards limped towards promotion - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Krovinovic despite him being a second rate star of our championship season - Dowling takes responsibility for that in not putting his foot down.

The failure to address the weaknesses in central midfield - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The appointment of a manager that was not entirely suited to this group of players - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Diangana - against his managers wishes - for nigh on £15m when he doesn't fit into the managers methods of playing - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Grant - who is nowhere near a centre forward for £15m - Dowling takes responsibility for that. He should have over-ruled Bilic given Dowling is in charge of our club going forwards.

Cedric Kipre - can anyone from the top of their heads recall what country he is currently playing in let alone team he plays for?

The decimation of our academy staff to that lot down the road - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

---

We might not be the richest club in the world, you might not agree with the budget that is set - but clubs like us have to box clever. They have to maximise their resources. We do not do that. We fall from one season to the other with no forward planning unlike clubs like Norwich, Brentford, Barnsley who are reaping the benefits of their patience and forward planning - and two of those may be swapping divisions with us.
Title: Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
Post by: baggie82 on May 27, 2021, 01:36:21 PM
Whether a matter is unrealistic is a matter of your personal opinion, but we cannot just sit here and blaming the budget and the finances to mask what some may consider an appalling job he is doing.

Liam, you have got the wrong end of the stick. I think Dowling has done a very decent job with the limited tools available to him. Some posters think he's done a terrible job, that's their view. I have never suggested that Dowling has done a poor job due to the limited resources. I think he has got more right than wrong with the tools available to him.

Our transfer business in 2019/20 was being lauded at the time and we got promotion of the back of it. Romain Saywers was touted as the signing of the season. Ajayi similar. After relegation from the premiership fans like to vent and have someone to blame, so of course now all those plaudits from the 19/20 season are in the distance and we have this revisionism that our dealings that in those championship windows was ****-poor, which doesn't any make sense as we got promoted.

I see comments like we could have spent the money better, which never acknowledge that some signings work and some don't, it's fairyland stuff. Grady is a very good example. He was unbelievable in the Championship and flopped in the Prem. There was a riot at West Ham when he was sold. Now Dowling is getting criticised for signing him. Fast forward a year and it might have gone full circle again, and Grady is back on top.

What has been our net spend over the past two seasons? How much did promotion get us, £200m?

I don't think any fan can rationally argue that promotion and relegation with our budget over the past two years against our competitors is unreasonable.
Title: Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
Post by: Atomic on May 27, 2021, 01:41:14 PM
Liam, you have got the wrong end of the stick. I think Dowling has done a very decent job with the limited tools available to him. Some posters think he's done a terrible job, that's their view. I have never suggested that Dowling has done a poor job due to the limited resources. I think he has got more right than wrong with the tools available to him.

Our transfer business in 2019/20 was being lauded at the time and we got promotion of the back of it. Romain Saywers was touted as the signing of the season. Ajayi similar. After relegation from the premiership fans like to vent and have someone to blame, so of course now all those plaudits from the 19/20 season are in the distance and we have this revisionism that our dealings that in those championship windows was ****-poor, which doesn't any make sense as we got promoted.

I see comments like we could have spent the money better, which never acknowledge that some signings work and some don't, it's fairyland stuff. Grady is a very good example. He was unbelievable in the Championship and flopped in the Prem. There was a riot at West Ham when he was sold. Now Dowling is getting criticised for signing him. Fast forward a year and it might have gone full circle again, and Grady is back on top.

What has been our net spend over the past two seasons? How much did promotion get us, £200m?

I don't think any fan can rationally argue that promotion and relegation with our budget over the past two years against our competitors is unreasonable.

Blimey that's a long post. However two immediate points:

Grady was not UNBELIEVABLE in the Championship, he was Ok to good, no better than that.

And there was no RIOT at West Ham. Mark Noble came out and moaned a bit and then........ West Ham had their best season since the mid 1980's. It's all suddenly gone very quiet.
Title: Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
Post by: baggie82 on May 27, 2021, 02:47:16 PM
Blimey that's a long post. However two immediate points:

Grady was not UNBELIEVABLE in the Championship, he was Ok to good, no better than that. And there was no RIOT at West Ham. Mark Noble came out and moaned a bit and then........ West Ham had their best season since the mid 1980's. It's all suddenly gone very quiet.

You beat me to it, I was going to say that Mark Noble wants a word. Their club captain was on sky news slagging their board off for selling Grady to us. It was big news at the time. Then like you say it's was all forgotten about after West Ham's relative success. That's football for you. I hope Diangana gets back to his best again and we can spend our time next summer arguing if we can afford to keep him or not.
Title: Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
Post by: wbasoprano on May 27, 2021, 03:08:18 PM
You beat me to it, I was going to say that Mark Noble wants a word. Their club captain was on sky news slagging their board off for selling Grady to us. It was big news at the time. Then like you say it's was all forgotten about after West Ham's relative success. That's football for you. I hope Diangana gets back to his best again and we can spend our time next summer arguing if we can afford to keep him or not.

If we get back up the debate should be do we want to keep him, not can we afford to, going by his efforts this season. Yeah he had injuries and was possibly under used by Sam but there was very little contribution over the season. When he banged that one in at Everton I thought here we go... but unfortunately that was his last meaningful contribution.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: wodenson46 on May 27, 2021, 03:35:21 PM
Just from what I saw on a few televised full games and highlights, every time Grady played,  especially under Allardyce, he spent an inordinate amount of time playing very deep trying to help out defensively. Not I am sure most will agree his natural game. The early form, playing well forward, with MP and Krovi he looked a lot more effective until his injuries. He is not an auxiliary full back, and I doubt very much that Dowling/Bilic signed him to be one.
Title: Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
Post by: BaggieNick on May 27, 2021, 06:18:31 PM
If we get back up the debate should be do we want to keep him, not can we afford to, going by his efforts this season. Yeah he had injuries and was possibly under used by Sam but there was very little contribution over the season. When he banged that one in at Everton I thought here we go... but unfortunately that was his last meaningful contribution.

Not a Prem player by any stretch but should be good enough to see us through next season.

As for West Ham they just needed a season away from their vile, moaning supporters to show what a genuinely good manager can achieve.

I wonder if they want Grady back now...........
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on May 27, 2021, 07:52:04 PM
His next decision is potentially his biggest. If its for Wilder, Dowling can't expect anything but criticism, especially if it turns out that there were more progressive, footballing managers available. 
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: lewisant on May 27, 2021, 08:10:45 PM
His next decision is potentially his biggest. If its for Wilder, Dowling can't expect anything but criticism, especially if it turns out that there were more progressive, footballing managers available.

From you maybe...from me - Wilder is the obvious choice. Sometimes the simple answer is the best.
Title: Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
Post by: johnny Cash on May 27, 2021, 08:38:12 PM
Whether a matter is unrealistic is a matter of your personal opinion, but we cannot just sit here and blaming the budget and the finances to mask what some may consider an appalling job he is doing.

How much money does he have to be given before we can judge his performance accordingly?

Lets face it - this club has not been awash with money and the fans have been able to judge the likes of Ashworth, Garlick, Hammond and Terraneo despite working to similar constraints.

Both 2019/20 and 2020/21 have seen us spend monies - whether you agree with the allocated amounts - which could have been used smartly to address the weaknesses within this squad.

2019/20

The two real successful signings of that season are Pereira and Diangana who are both widely attributed to be Bilic signings.

The rest of very much of a muchness - there are no stand out talents, just merely average footballers who will likely spend the majority of their careers playing championship (or lower level football).

I'm not even going to comment on the pathetic waste of monies on Zohore. Austin might have came for a fee and high wages but at least he provided a contribution.

The comparison was drawn to Ashworth - but he built a side which could succeed in the championship but had the nucleus of being a Premier League side (as an example, Brunt, Morrison, Mulumu, Olsson, Tamas). He then added to it with the smart recruitment of the likes of Odemwingie for peanuts whereas we opted for nigh on £15m for Grant and both players are not comparable.

How much of our current crop do you reckon we can form a side that could enable to survive in the PL? Ajayi, Furlong, Sawyers are not PL quality and that is the difference between the two.

As for last season:

The pursual of getting the old band back together which from December onwards limped towards promotion - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Krovinovic despite him being a second rate star of our championship season - Dowling takes responsibility for that in not putting his foot down.

The failure to address the weaknesses in central midfield - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The appointment of a manager that was not entirely suited to this group of players - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Diangana - against his managers wishes - for nigh on £15m when he doesn't fit into the managers methods of playing - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Grant - who is nowhere near a centre forward for £15m - Dowling takes responsibility for that. He should have over-ruled Bilic given Dowling is in charge of our club going forwards.

Cedric Kipre - can anyone from the top of their heads recall what country he is currently playing in let alone team he plays for?

The decimation of our academy staff to that lot down the road - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

---

We might not be the richest club in the world, you might not agree with the budget that is set - but clubs like us have to box clever. They have to maximise their resources. We do not do that. We fall from one season to the other with no forward planning unlike clubs like Norwich, Brentford, Barnsley who are reaping the benefits of their patience and forward planning - and two of those may be swapping divisions with us.

I agree with a lot of what you say on Dowling Liam but it doesn’t seem fair on one hand say Dowling should have put his foot down on Krov and told Bilic to do one  but then on the other he should have listened about only loaning Diangana.

People seem to want a clear divide where either a manager makes signing or the DOF does. It can’t be that clear, you have to allow the manager some input but they are too short term now to have all of it.

In that respect allowing a manager a day got us Pereira. Allowing him a loan of Krov if he was adamant is not a major problem on its own.

What dowling is responsible for is the collective though. Not addressing centre mid, not seeing the squad improve, to many short term fixes, blowing the budget we did have on two players who barely plated and players who want to play the same position.

He will also be to blame if he can’t see past wilder and wants to shoe horn him in to the squad.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on May 27, 2021, 09:55:35 PM
Everybody's assuming the owner has no input into decision making at the club, yet it's on record that he insisted on Darren Moore.
Title: Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
Post by: Dexy on May 27, 2021, 10:07:46 PM
Whether a matter is unrealistic is a matter of your personal opinion, but we cannot just sit here and blaming the budget and the finances to mask what some may consider an appalling job he is doing.

How much money does he have to be given before we can judge his performance accordingly?

Lets face it - this club has not been awash with money and the fans have been able to judge the likes of Ashworth, Garlick, Hammond and Terraneo despite working to similar constraints.

Both 2019/20 and 2020/21 have seen us spend monies - whether you agree with the allocated amounts - which could have been used smartly to address the weaknesses within this squad.

2019/20

The two real successful signings of that season are Pereira and Diangana who are both widely attributed to be Bilic signings.

The rest of very much of a muchness - there are no stand out talents, just merely average footballers who will likely spend the majority of their careers playing championship (or lower level football).

I'm not even going to comment on the pathetic waste of monies on Zohore. Austin might have came for a fee and high wages but at least he provided a contribution.

The comparison was drawn to Ashworth - but he built a side which could succeed in the championship but had the nucleus of being a Premier League side (as an example, Brunt, Morrison, Mulumu, Olsson, Tamas). He then added to it with the smart recruitment of the likes of Odemwingie for peanuts whereas we opted for nigh on £15m for Grant and both players are not comparable.

How much of our current crop do you reckon we can form a side that could enable to survive in the PL? Ajayi, Furlong, Sawyers are not PL quality and that is the difference between the two.

As for last season:

The pursual of getting the old band back together which from December onwards limped towards promotion - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Krovinovic despite him being a second rate star of our championship season - Dowling takes responsibility for that in not putting his foot down.

The failure to address the weaknesses in central midfield - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The appointment of a manager that was not entirely suited to this group of players - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Diangana - against his managers wishes - for nigh on £15m when he doesn't fit into the managers methods of playing - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Grant - who is nowhere near a centre forward for £15m - Dowling takes responsibility for that. He should have over-ruled Bilic given Dowling is in charge of our club going forwards.

Cedric Kipre - can anyone from the top of their heads recall what country he is currently playing in let alone team he plays for?

The decimation of our academy staff to that lot down the road - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

---

We might not be the richest club in the world, you might not agree with the budget that is set - but clubs like us have to box clever. They have to maximise their resources. We do not do that. We fall from one season to the other with no forward planning unlike clubs like Norwich, Brentford, Barnsley who are reaping the benefits of their patience and forward planning - and two of those may be swapping divisions with us.
Agree with nearly all of this , the Krov issue I can accept as you do have to bend within reason . I wouldn't have got him back but at least it was a loan .
Totally correct on standing up to the Grant signing and with problems elsewhere I had mixed feeling lumping that amount on Grady . Above is money that could have been used better clearly , talking of money I see both Austin and Grosiki have Today gone so thats no return money wise and not huge amounts on the pitch . We have got to get away from signing players with not much left /  early 30's .
Solid points on the rest of it and no I have no idea of where Kipre is from . ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
Post by: BaggieNick on May 27, 2021, 10:56:02 PM
Agree with nearly all of this , the Krov issue I can accept as you do have to bend within reason . I wouldn't have got him back but at least it was a loan .
Totally correct on standing up to the Grant signing and with problems elsewhere I had mixed feeling lumping that amount on Grady . Above is money that could have been used better clearly , talking of money I see both Austin and Grosiki have Today gone so thats no return money wise and not huge amounts on the pitch . We have got to get away from signing players with not much left /  early 30's .
Solid points on the rest of it and no I have no idea of where Kipre is from . ;D

Grant and Grady.

It's really that simple.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Hull Baggie on May 31, 2021, 07:46:39 PM
I knew that Kipre was on loan at Charleroi as it's the same team as Berahino is also on loan at. No idea how well Kipre did for them though!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: hardtobeat on May 31, 2021, 08:00:11 PM
From what I can tell Kipre made just 5 starts for Charleroi
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Hull Baggie on May 31, 2021, 08:02:40 PM
From what I can tell Kipre made just 5 starts for Charleroi

Yeah, I had a quick look on Transfermarkt after I'd posted. 5 appearances 4 on the bench and 3 yellow cards!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 31, 2021, 09:16:33 PM
Yet based on his performances for Wigan, he's arguably our best centre back.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: mulliganstired on May 31, 2021, 09:17:47 PM
Yeah, I had a quick look on Transfermarkt after I'd posted. 5 appearances 4 on the bench and 3 yellow cards!
Puts his foot in then
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on May 31, 2021, 10:51:10 PM
For all the criticism of our recruitment under Dowling it’s a hell of a lot better than what Chris Wilder did at Sheff Utd after spending £120m net.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: iwastherein68 on June 01, 2021, 05:22:00 AM
Yet based on his performances for Wigan, he's arguably our best centre back.
He is indeed
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on June 01, 2021, 08:52:29 AM
For all the criticism of our recruitment under Dowling it’s a hell of a lot better than what Chris Wilder did at Sheff Utd after spending £120m net.
Great pair these two will make .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: AidantheBaggies on June 03, 2021, 11:38:48 AM
Our once great youth set up was stripped by Dowling, they are now doing a pretty good job over at the Villa.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on June 03, 2021, 12:03:51 PM
We just need to believe in Dowling  :-\ :-X
Title: Re: Luke Dowlings tenure
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on June 03, 2021, 12:10:52 PM
Whether a matter is unrealistic is a matter of your personal opinion, but we cannot just sit here and blaming the budget and the finances to mask what some may consider an appalling job he is doing.

How much money does he have to be given before we can judge his performance accordingly?

Lets face it - this club has not been awash with money and the fans have been able to judge the likes of Ashworth, Garlick, Hammond and Terraneo despite working to similar constraints.

Both 2019/20 and 2020/21 have seen us spend monies - whether you agree with the allocated amounts - which could have been used smartly to address the weaknesses within this squad.

2019/20

The two real successful signings of that season are Pereira and Diangana who are both widely attributed to be Bilic signings.

The rest of very much of a muchness - there are no stand out talents, just merely average footballers who will likely spend the majority of their careers playing championship (or lower level football).

I'm not even going to comment on the pathetic waste of monies on Zohore. Austin might have came for a fee and high wages but at least he provided a contribution.

The comparison was drawn to Ashworth - but he built a side which could succeed in the championship but had the nucleus of being a Premier League side (as an example, Brunt, Morrison, Mulumu, Olsson, Tamas). He then added to it with the smart recruitment of the likes of Odemwingie for peanuts whereas we opted for nigh on £15m for Grant and both players are not comparable.

How much of our current crop do you reckon we can form a side that could enable to survive in the PL? Ajayi, Furlong, Sawyers are not PL quality and that is the difference between the two.

As for last season:

The pursual of getting the old band back together which from December onwards limped towards promotion - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Krovinovic despite him being a second rate star of our championship season - Dowling takes responsibility for that in not putting his foot down.

The failure to address the weaknesses in central midfield - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The appointment of a manager that was not entirely suited to this group of players - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Diangana - against his managers wishes - for nigh on £15m when he doesn't fit into the managers methods of playing - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

The pursual of Grant - who is nowhere near a centre forward for £15m - Dowling takes responsibility for that. He should have over-ruled Bilic given Dowling is in charge of our club going forwards.

Cedric Kipre - can anyone from the top of their heads recall what country he is currently playing in let alone team he plays for?

The decimation of our academy staff to that lot down the road - Dowling takes responsibility for that.

---

We might not be the richest club in the world, you might not agree with the budget that is set - but clubs like us have to box clever. They have to maximise their resources. We do not do that. We fall from one season to the other with no forward planning unlike clubs like Norwich, Brentford, Barnsley who are reaping the benefits of their patience and forward planning - and two of those may be swapping divisions with us.
Kipre plays for an African side I think not sure who though edit plays for Ivory Coast who was going to say due to Fifa. He was born in France though
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: graka on June 03, 2021, 09:32:07 PM
Can we blame him for the lack of a new kit available to buy?
Seriously though why are we so slow releasing our kits every year.
Most teams play in their new kit last game of the season.
Until we get a new owner or someone on the board above this muppet who has even the smallest amount of knowledge about football we will continue to lurch from one disaster to the next
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on June 03, 2021, 09:38:03 PM
Can we blame him for the lack of a new kit available to buy?
Seriously though why are we so slow releasing our kits every year.
Most teams play in their new kit last game of the season.
Until we get a new owner or someone on the board above this muppet who has even the smallest amount of knowledge about football we will continue to lurch from one disaster to the next
do they? maybe top 6 but from memory it's not a common occurrence.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Gilsey 56 on June 06, 2021, 10:24:19 PM
I'm hoping our lad Luke pulls a rabbit out the hat with our next manager.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on June 08, 2021, 10:59:49 PM
As well as Baggies post on here I've seen the offer to resign rumour several times elsewhere , while I admire that stance I hope they take him up on that for reasons I've posted before and If true I'm not sure how you work with a new manager after that .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 08, 2021, 11:28:36 PM
As well as Baggies post on here I've seen the offer to resign rumour several times elsewhere , while I admire that stance I hope they take him up on that for reasons I've posted before and If true I'm not sure how you work with a new manager after that .

If he's leaked the Wilder tale to the press I imagine he'll get the tin tack anyway.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 08, 2021, 11:29:15 PM
He has to go for a number of reasons.

His previous history stands alone in itself but there are two additional points

1. He has lost the power battle with Lai who has drawn rank. He’s been shafted as the man overseeing football operations is now working with a man he seemingly does not want.

2. Either Dowling or one of his team have undermined the new head coach by briefing to the media around our refusal to pay compensation towards in work coaches. That has encouraged the sway of ill feeling towards the board which Wagner will carry the can for given he’s the owners man. Their lack of presence at this club puts Wagner in the firing line.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WorcsWBA on June 08, 2021, 11:34:52 PM
He has to go for a number of reasons.

His previous history stands alone in itself but there are two additional points

1. He has lost the power battle with Lai who has drawn rank. He’s been shafted as the man overseeing football operations is now working with a man he seemingly does not want.

2. Either Dowling or one of his team have undermined the new head coach by briefing to the media around our refusal to pay compensation towards in work coaches. That has encouraged the sway of ill feeling towards the board which Wagner will carry the can for given he’s the owners man. Their lack of presence at this club puts Wagner in the firing line.
I agree with this entirely but, unless they have someone already lined up to replace him and who can hit the ground running, it's going to make a hell of a mess of our summer transfer activity.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 08, 2021, 11:38:50 PM
I agree with this entirely but, unless they have someone already lined up to replace him and who can hit the ground running, it's going to make a hell of a mess of our summer transfer activity.

He sacked Nick Hammond without a replacement.

I refuse to believe that Terraneo was ever a worthwhile replacement as he was sacked within two months.

I wonder whether he’s learned his lesson.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on June 09, 2021, 12:07:00 AM
He has to go for a number of reasons.

His previous history stands alone in itself but there are two additional points

1. He has lost the power battle with Lai who has drawn rank. He’s been shafted as the man overseeing football operations is now working with a man he seemingly does not want.

2. Either Dowling or one of his team have undermined the new head coach by briefing to the media around our refusal to pay compensation towards in work coaches. That has encouraged the sway of ill feeling towards the board which Wagner will carry the can for given he’s the owners man. Their lack of presence at this club puts Wagner in the firing line.


Don't think point 1 is necessarily correct. Lai might just have said, i don't want Wilder, get me someone else. In that case, Wagner is still Dowling's man.

Point 2, however is far more serious. Briefing against Lai's decision not to pay compensation undermines Lai far more than Wagner, & if proven, is undoubtedly a sackable offence
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 09, 2021, 07:58:50 AM

Don't think point 1 is necessarily correct. Lai might just have said, i don't want Wilder, get me someone else. In that case, Wagner is still Dowling's man.

Point 2, however is far more serious. Briefing against Lai's decision not to pay compensation undermines Lai far more than Wagner, & if proven, is undoubtedly a sackable offence

Choosing a candidate from an unemployed list does not make him Dowling man when the unanimous choice of the board was to appoint Wilder.

Lai who knows bugger all has drawn rank over the man who is paid to run the football operations of this club.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: AidantheBaggies on June 09, 2021, 08:17:05 AM
Dowling wont go anywhere.....he wont get a gig like this anywhere else. And no doubt he'll have a lot of say over new signings, just like Webber did when Wagner was at Huddersfield.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on June 09, 2021, 08:24:06 AM
Choosing a candidate from an unemployed list does not make him Dowling man when the unanimous choice of the board was to appoint Wilder.

Lai who knows bugger all has drawn rank over the man who is paid to run the football operations of this club.

The board consists of Li Piyue, Ken & Mark Miles.
Dowling is listed as part of the management team. He's also not listed as a director at companies house.
I'm not convinced Wilder was the unanimous choice of the board.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 09, 2021, 08:39:50 AM
The board consists of Li Piyue, Ken & Mark Miles.
Dowling is listed as part of the management team. He's also not listed as a director at companies house.
I'm not convinced Wilder was the unanimous choice of the board.

You’re playing semantics with job titles.

It has been reported by both Masi and Percy that Wilder was the unanimous choice of the board.

That appointment was vetoed by Lai

I am not sure why you’re taking a wholly different approach because there is nothing out there to support it.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on June 09, 2021, 08:44:05 AM
I wonder if Dowling has partly had the Wilder option taken away as the Allardyce tenure didn't work out which was also  a Dowling option .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on June 09, 2021, 08:47:55 AM
You’re playing semantics with job titles.

It has been reported by both Masi and Percy that Wilder was the unanimous choice of the board.

That appointment was vetoed by Lai

I am not sure why you’re taking a wholly different approach because there is nothing out there to support it.
Just to add to this Liam I posted 2 weeks ago Dowling was pushing for Wilder from a solid ITK , the owners wanted Lampard or the like . Looks pretty much like the ITK was correct and no it wasn't our mate off Twitter ;D .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: AidantheBaggies on June 09, 2021, 08:48:15 AM
I wonder if Dowling has partly had the Wilder option taken away as the Allardyce tenure didn't work out which was also  a Dowling option .

Then Lai should get rid of him.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Fritzl Palace on June 09, 2021, 08:48:46 AM
His position seems to be becoming fairly untenable as far as I can see it. If he has been appointed to deal with football related activities on behalf of Lai and he has been overruled in the managerial appointment, i.e. the bloke he will have to work with on a daily basis on all facets of the team, it does not bode well.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 09, 2021, 08:49:01 AM
I wonder if Dowling has partly had the Wilder option taken away as the Allardyce tenure didn't work out which was also  a Dowling option .

If that’s the case then he needs to be sacked.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on June 09, 2021, 08:49:22 AM
I wonder if Dowling has partly had the Wilder option taken away as the Allardyce tenure didn't work out which was also  a Dowling option .

yes, if i was Lai, i wouldnt take LD's recommendations seriously, but neither can i imagine a process where Wagner comes out top of the list.

Whoever wrote Wagners CV, can you please take a look at mine?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on June 09, 2021, 08:51:37 AM
If that’s the case then he needs to be sacked.
You know my view , should have been outed as soon as we got relegated .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 09, 2021, 08:52:34 AM
You know my view , should have been outed as soon as we got relegated .

I think you need to stop sitting on the fence mate and tell us how you really feel  :D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on June 09, 2021, 08:55:05 AM
If Lai will not pay anything for a manager to come in, why do we expect him to sack Dowling and incur those costs?  He will wait for LD to walk, could be a long wait though, which achieves what exactly ?? 

The farce is in danger of turning into a tragedy
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: skyclad99 on June 09, 2021, 09:01:04 AM
I wonder if Dowling has partly had the Wilder option taken away as the Allardyce tenure didn't work out which was also  a Dowling option .

To be fair Dexy, the appointment of Allardyce was logical given our dire position at the time, most of us would have gone with that given any alternatives available.

It is likely to be the failed Allardyce appointment that ultimately costs him I think.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on June 09, 2021, 09:04:28 AM
If Lai will not pay anything for a manager to come in, why do we expect him to sack Dowling and incur those costs?  He will wait for LD to walk, could be a long wait though, which achieves what exactly ?? 

The farce is in danger of turning into a tragedy
Dowling would be on a lot less than any manager and Lai soon outed Williams and Goodman .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on June 09, 2021, 09:05:47 AM
To be fair Dexy, the appointment of Allardyce was logical given our dire position at the time, most of us would have gone with that given any alternatives available.

It is likely to be the failed Allardyce appointment that ultimately costs him I think.
Totally agree mate , no issue on that but from Lai's view it was another costly failure .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on June 09, 2021, 09:07:04 AM
I think you need to stop sitting on the fence mate and tell us how you really feel  :D
I like to keep my cards close ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: tuamigos on June 09, 2021, 09:49:11 AM
Can't see how he could operate in the roll that he is supposed to now it has come to light that he's been spanked by the Chairman.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on June 09, 2021, 09:51:21 AM
Yep if i was him i'd be walking and that's outside of my personal view that i'd like him sacked.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Standaman on June 09, 2021, 10:49:58 AM
If Dowling gets fired for mishandling this appointment then it is entirely his own fault. If he feels obliged to resign again that is on him nobody else.

The way collective responsibility in the boardroom works is you argue your case on any decision if that decision goes against you either live with it and get behind it publicly or you don't and resign. You don't leak to the press and expect to be in a job the following day.   
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on June 09, 2021, 10:53:59 AM
You’re playing semantics with job titles.

It has been reported by both Masi and Percy that Wilder was the unanimous choice of the board.

That appointment was vetoed by Lai

I am not sure why you’re taking a wholly different approach because there is nothing out there to support it.

I am absolutely not playing semantics.

Dowling is not a member of the board of directors, neither is Lai.

Lai however, owns 88% of the business, so it's mainly his money that's at stake. He appointed Li Piyue as chairman & Ken as CEO to look after his interests, who are both members of the board.
It's inconceivable that both of those individuals would not have consulted with Lai on the selection process.

Other members of this forum have also suggested that the board & Dowling were not on the same page.

It's looking increasingly likely that Dowling was responsible for the leak, & he's the one with egg on his face, as Standaman said last night, we're in a mess.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie38 on June 09, 2021, 11:15:56 AM
It's almost certainly Dowling who has been talking to the press isnt it? I know if I were in his shoes and I had been done over like this by Lai I'd hand in my resignation.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: mrmojorisin on June 09, 2021, 12:01:41 PM
I very much doubt he will resign. I expect he will bite the bullet and keep going. After all, if he does resign is any other decent club likely to give him a job?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Mooncat on June 09, 2021, 12:16:15 PM
If LD is the source of the leak to the press (although proving that will be near impossible) the surely if Lai was so opposed to Wilder on the basis of 'lack of respect for the hierarchy' as has been suggested, then surely this would rank higher on the list of "things likely to upset GL".
A lot of ifs but surely a leak from inside the club, with only a few obvious candidates is likely to incur the wrath of our owner?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gerry m on June 09, 2021, 12:43:11 PM
I very much doubt he will resign. I expect he will bite the bullet and keep going. After all, if he does resign is any other decent club likely to give him a job?

Agree with that. If he eventually gets fired he would get a nice payday
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: hardtobeat on June 09, 2021, 12:56:58 PM
You’re playing semantics with job titles.

It has been reported by both Masi and Percy that Wilder was the unanimous choice of the board.

That appointment was vetoed by Lai

I am not sure why you’re taking a wholly different approach because there is nothing out there to support it.
The key word here is board . The statement by Masi and Percy makes no sense to me . The two Chinamen on the board will not have made many decisions without consulting Lai first and as far as I am aware the only other board member is Myles. As such it can have come as no shock that Lai vetoed the appointment . It is entirely possible they packaged it as Dowlings recommendation but no more than that.
At a slight tangent didn’t Jenkins say he would be around as a kind of consultant/sounding board if needed ,if so I wonder if had any input unlikely but this is the Albion !
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on June 09, 2021, 03:16:51 PM
Dowling gets blamed by some for everything that happens at our club and no credit whatsoever for any success. I'd be amazed if he left us at this stage given we need him to work with the new manager and scouts to oversee a hectic summer transfer window.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 09, 2021, 03:40:13 PM
Dowling gets blamed by some for everything that happens at our club and no credit whatsoever for any success. I'd be amazed if he left us at this stage given we need him to work with the new manager and scouts to oversee a hectic summer transfer window.

I see what you're doing. After that Wagner post yesterday... fingers crossed he's gone by 10pm 😂
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on June 09, 2021, 04:53:02 PM
I see what you're doing. After that Wagner post yesterday... fingers crossed he's gone by 10pm 😂

😂 My posts do have an uncanny knack for making things happen, in a couple of match day threads this season I guaranteed we had no chance of scoring, only for us to then immediately bang in a couple of goals. In all seriousness I'd be much happier having Dowling work alongside Wagner in this summer's transfer window than not having a director of football in charge at all. I'm in the minority, in that I think his transfer business has been decent anyway given the resources available to him.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: wodenson46 on June 09, 2021, 07:25:48 PM
Dowling should be sacked for the Allardyce adventure alone. Anything else just compounds the issue.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Gilsey 56 on June 09, 2021, 07:41:16 PM
Can't see how he could operate in the roll that he is supposed to now it has come to light that he's been spanked by the Chairman.
Totally agree mate, unless you're really thick skinned .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on June 09, 2021, 11:41:41 PM
Dowling should be sacked for the Allardyce adventure alone. Anything else just compounds the issue.

Yeah, I was fuming with the change of manager rather than committing to what we had but for all we know that may have been Lai driven as well. Water under the bridge now. Vital summer ahead of us and it's not the time to sack the director of football. We got promoted last time with him at the helm and I remember everyone was lauding our transfer business for Sawyers, Furlong, Krov, Grady, Pereira, Austin, Ajayi etc, Romaine was held as the bargain signing of the season. The mood music changes so quickly. Fact is in the championship we are a relatively big draw and can make deals happen. In the premiership we are the bottom of the pack, left to pick up the scrapes that nobody else wanted. Yet a lot of fans expect wondrous transfer business in both leagues, regardless, and even with a shoestring budget. We need to be a bit more realistic.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on June 10, 2021, 08:19:50 AM
Totally agree mate, unless you're really thick skinned .

You can be undermined by the chairman / owner over-ruling your recommendation if you have mutual respect for each others position. AND as the sub-ordinate you can point to other decisions / strategies you have implemented successfully meeting owner / boards objectives , these being acknowledged by the Chair.
None of us are privy to the Lai / Dowling relationship (if one even exists) but my impression is that Lai simply NEEDS us to maintain a premier league status and that is the over-riding objective of everyone at WBAFC, in that respect LD has failed and will be judged on that basis (I think)
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on June 10, 2021, 08:37:37 AM
Yeah, I was fuming with the change of manager rather than committing to what we had but for all we know that may have been Lai driven as well. Water under the bridge now. Vital summer ahead of us and it's not the time to sack the director of football. We got promoted last time with him at the helm and I remember everyone was lauding our transfer business for Sawyers, Furlong, Krov, Grady, Pereira, Austin, Ajayi etc, Romaine was held as the bargain signing of the season. The mood music changes so quickly. Fact is in the championship we are a relatively big draw and can make deals happen. In the premiership we are the bottom of the pack, left to pick up the scrapes that nobody else wanted. Yet a lot of fans expect wondrous transfer business in both leagues, regardless, and even with a shoestring budget. We need to be a bit more realistic.
If he is still here he needs to buy players that A. Fit the style the manager wants , B. Not be on their last legs , C . Have some resale value and D. Don't commit to stupid contracts and big rises If we go up to players who don't play and are the wrong side of 30 .
The above would be a start .
I'll also point out 3 of the names you list were Bilic picks , Ajayi , Furlong , Sawyers and Austin are good examples of Dowlings work . All signings from British clubs , most of them poor last season . I know its not easy but we need to be looking for players who can handle the league we are in and a good chance of the Premier . This is where Dowling's British first policy kills him for me , narrowing the market for a club like us is suicide .
I don't know much about Wagner's Huddersfield squad but from memory there was a influx of foriegn players , I have no idea how that will work with Dowling .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: darbolina on June 10, 2021, 08:52:54 AM
I think Dowling's biggest failures are around not supporting the academy (we've lost loads of staff and players in his time which seems to speak volumes) plus not providing any kind of joined up strategy on the football side - other than appointing a 'name' as HC and hoping for the best. There have been worrying stories that he's signed players the respective coach didn't want/ need (rumours re Zohore and Diangana) - what's the point in that for anyone if true?

I just think we badly need fresh impetus in this (football side of the club) area. barnsely, Brentford, Swansea and others are stealing a march on us by being more open minded and creative with recruitment and football strategy so we need to wake up and catch up before it's too late and we become another Sheff Wed or Derby, sleepwalking down the Championship over time..............
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on June 10, 2021, 03:46:38 PM
If he is still here he needs to buy players that A. Fit the style the manager wants , B. Not be on their last legs , C . Have some resale value and D. Don't commit to stupid contracts and big rises If we go up to players who don't play and are the wrong side of 30 .
The above would be a start .
I'll also point out 3 of the names you list were Bilic picks , Ajayi , Furlong , Sawyers and Austin are good examples of Dowlings work . All signings from British clubs , most of them poor last season . I know its not easy but we need to be looking for players who can handle the league we are in and a good chance of the Premier . This is where Dowling's British first policy kills him for me , narrowing the market for a club like us is suicide .
I don't know much about Wagner's Huddersfield squad but from memory there was a influx of foriegn players , I have no idea how that will work with Dowling .

I agree with you re no point spending big on players the wrong side of 30, but let's also appreciate that we did a decent job two years ago in the last championship summer transfer window of lowering the age of the squad; as it was a proper OAP shambles at the time.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on June 10, 2021, 04:58:55 PM
I agree with you re no point spending big on players the wrong side of 30, but let's also appreciate that we did a decent job two years ago in the last championship summer transfer window of lowering the age of the squad; as it was a proper OAP shambles at the time.
I'll struggle to appreciate getting older ones out and bringing two in on hefty money , you know my view and dont have to show you that list again .
That Wagner / Dowling point lasted well ;D
Edit 3 older players , I forgot Peltier .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WBA.R.K on June 14, 2021, 11:40:10 AM
Believe me, I am in no way a fan of Dowling but surely the man must be near the end of his rope?
He must be getting more frustrated as each day goes on and Lai keeps making his job more and more difficult.
At what point does he just call it quits? He could easily get another job elsewhere.
If that were to happen, god help us with whoever Lai decides to bring in this time  ???
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 14, 2021, 11:48:46 AM
Believe me, I am in no way a fan of Dowling but surely the man must be near the end of his rope?
He must be getting more frustrated as each day goes on and Lai keeps making his job more and more difficult.
At what point does he just call it quits? He could easily get another job elsewhere.
If that were to happen, god help us with whoever Lai decides to bring in this time  ???

Asda?

Let's not beat about the bush. He's never working at this level again.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on June 14, 2021, 12:01:17 PM
Asda?

If that's the case. I won't be shopping at ASDA.
He would mix up the caviar with cabbages. I would then end up with a cabbage.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on June 14, 2021, 12:12:16 PM
Presumably he is sanctioning the £1million Harper is reportedly valued at. So has he got a replacement lined up which will be better value for money? Not holding my breath.
Or do we go into the Championship season with one less central midfielder?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: KN22 on June 14, 2021, 12:53:36 PM
Presumably he is sanctioning the £1million Harper is reportedly valued at. So has he got a replacement lined up which will be better value for money? Not holding my breath.
Or do we go into the Championship season with one less central midfielder?

I wont personally criticise him for the Harper sale. I believe the price we are getting is the best we could possibly hope for.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on June 14, 2021, 01:19:00 PM
I wont personally criticise him for the Harper sale. I believe the price we are getting is the best we could possibly hope for.
So are we overloaded with central midfielders, assuming Pereira is not staying? Its not just about whether Harper is worth more than a million, which in today's market he is, its whether we have sufficient quality midfielders ready for a 46 match season.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Mister AT on June 14, 2021, 03:02:51 PM
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/club-statement-luke-dowling


He’s gone!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on June 14, 2021, 03:02:56 PM
HES GONE!!


John Percy
@JPercyTelegraph
·
1m
#wba technical & sporting director Luke Dowling leaves the club by mutual consent. Dowling was leading the search for a new manager, with the club’s owner vetoing appointment of Chris Wilder. #Lincoln manager Michael Appleton no longer an option and remains committed to the club
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on June 14, 2021, 03:03:36 PM
Great. No manager and no technical director. Wonderful preparation for the season ahead.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: AlbionFan on June 14, 2021, 03:03:42 PM
John Percy Tweeted

#wba technical & sporting director Luke Dowling leaves the club by mutual consent. Dowling was leading the search for a new manager, with the club’s owner vetoing appointment of Chris Wilder. #Lincoln manager Michael Appleton no longer an option and remains committed to the club
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on June 14, 2021, 03:04:12 PM
Should have gone weeks ago , best wishes in the future .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on June 14, 2021, 03:05:28 PM
His position had been untenable since the Wilder fiasco. Sensible move for all.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: AlbionFan on June 14, 2021, 03:05:38 PM
Joseph Masi Tweeted

Huge news coming out of Albion as Luke Dowling leaves by mutual consent. You could argue his role had become untenable with it understood the former technical director wanted Chris Wilder as boss. Chief Executive Xu Ke will later release a statement on the manager search #wba
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Mister AT on June 14, 2021, 03:06:05 PM
Be interesting to see what Ken says later today regarding the manager search.

Can only assume the Wilder scenario finished Dowling off.

From the outside, we look a mess!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: MarkW on June 14, 2021, 03:06:14 PM
What on earth?! Genuinely baffled, and not because I didn't want him to go, but because I have no idea where that leaves us this summer.

No manager, no DOF... it's not looking good
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: AlbionFan on June 14, 2021, 03:06:33 PM
Joseph Masi Tweeted

Reports from BBC's
@sistoney67
 that owner Guochuan Lai had lost faith in Dowling... #wba
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Mister AT on June 14, 2021, 03:07:01 PM
Sporting director Luke Dowling leaves @WBA by mutual consent. Been told previously owner Guochuan Lai had lost faith in Dowling.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 14, 2021, 03:07:51 PM
This is an absolute mess. No manager, no squad, no head coach.

Dowling needed to go but it is appalling timing goes really.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Mister AT on June 14, 2021, 03:08:41 PM
Fully expect Lai to go running back to Jenkins.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Blowee on June 14, 2021, 03:08:59 PM
Actually think he’s done the honourable thing here. It seems fairly clear that Lai wants to make the decisions over his head. Lai now has a serious problem. His ego is going to cost him dearly and he’s taking us down with him.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on June 14, 2021, 03:10:22 PM
Actually think he’s done the honourable thing here. It seems fairly clear that Lai wants to make the decisions over his head. Lai now has a serious problem. His ego is going to cost him dearly and he’s taking us down with him.


Spot on, i think he's realised he's about to see his money go down the drain and is going to become more invovled which is not hard to be fair. Lai needs to get the next DOF right, it's crucial.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: AlbionFan on June 14, 2021, 03:10:54 PM
Fully expect Lai to go running back to Jenkins.

Lets hops so as we have no one, who knows the club, to turn to and lets hope JRP is also approached
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 14, 2021, 03:12:21 PM
Fully expect Lai to go running back to Jenkins.

I think this might be inevitable at the moment...
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on June 14, 2021, 03:14:18 PM
Makes a lot of sense if he's clearly been overruled by Lai and the board. However, leaves us with another massive vacuum to fill. Oh for someone like Dan Ashworth being available. I think best for the club now is Mark Jenkins, if he's willing to stabilise things. 
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 14, 2021, 03:14:41 PM
This is fantastic news, there is no other way to spin it. The guy is a disaster and this gives us a completely clean slate. I'm absolutely delighted.

There are plenty of sports management consultancies that the guys at the top of the club can access to move forward. Big no to a 3rd spell of Jenkins too.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Blowee on June 14, 2021, 03:14:51 PM
Fully expect Lai to go running back to Jenkins.
Jenkins looked mightily relieved when we were promoted under Bilic. To me he looked like a man who couldn’t wait to get out of there. I can’t see him coming back in a hurry.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on June 14, 2021, 03:15:15 PM
No surprise, felt inevitable. Awful timing but there has been a breakdown of trust there.

Hope a new man is lined up quickly.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on June 14, 2021, 03:15:33 PM
I get the feeling we might see a move to working without a DoF & the reappearance of "unemployed from Newport".
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on June 14, 2021, 03:15:54 PM
Whoever Lai brings in is almost certain to want a manager that needs compo paying though. Lai's bloody-minded nature has done us no favours.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WBA.R.K on June 14, 2021, 03:16:34 PM
Believe me, I am in no way a fan of Dowling but surely the man must be near the end of his rope?
He must be getting more frustrated as each day goes on and Lai keeps making his job more and more difficult.
At what point does he just call it quits? He could easily get another job elsewhere.
If that were to happen, god help us with whoever Lai decides to bring in this time  ???

I guess at this point...
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Blowee on June 14, 2021, 03:17:37 PM
Well at least the pressure is off to find a Head Coach! We can now spend the rest of the month looking for a DOF!!!!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on June 14, 2021, 03:18:33 PM
Fully out of his depth , the list of signings and the scatter gun approach backs that up .
Should have been axed well before and that's on Lai and Co  , the only surprise is it didn't happen after Allardyce failed .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie38 on June 14, 2021, 03:18:48 PM
Good riddance. Don't let the door hit you on the way out Luke.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggies_24 on June 14, 2021, 03:19:46 PM
Joseph Masi Tweeted

Reports from BBC's
@sistoney67
 that owner Guochuan Lai had lost faith in Dowling... #wba

Which is fine but why leave it this late to get rid of him he should have gone as soon as relegation was confirmed with a new guy coming in to replace him almost straight away.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Standaman on June 14, 2021, 03:20:10 PM
This has been inevitable since the blow by blow of the manager search was leaked. The timing sucks but at least we are shot of Dowling who even with the best will in the world was at best lumpen.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Blowee on June 14, 2021, 03:20:27 PM
Good riddance. Don't let the door hit you on the way out Luke.
Think the door has been removed due to all of the comings and goings!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: hardtobeat on June 14, 2021, 03:20:43 PM
The warning lights that were flashing are now on full beam. Going cap in hand to Jenkins would seem to be the obvious move now. What is it 3 weeks until the players are due to report back , things need sorting quickly before then . If we get a manager in the loss of DoF can be overcome initially
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: wing wizard on June 14, 2021, 03:20:58 PM
great timing...not..!!..quite where we go from here i don't know...Jacko states there are plenty of Sports advisers out there....I wouldn't trust this lot to even think of that....the lunatics have well and truly taken over the asylum... :-\
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TLMS17 on June 14, 2021, 03:21:37 PM
Regardless what you think of Dowling, it just sums up how much of a **** show it is right now and just one less thing we could have done with IMO
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: cads_ap_albion on June 14, 2021, 03:22:38 PM
So we will pay compensation to sack Dowling but not compensation for a manager.

We are rudderless and about to have an uninformed and directionless transfer window.

We are at the edge of a precipice. I hope JP is enjoying his retirement
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: paulosull on June 14, 2021, 03:24:09 PM
Best news I've heard today now if the owner would do one I'd be well happy.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Groovephil on June 14, 2021, 03:25:56 PM
He was useless, sure it isn’t what we need now but I didn’t fancy another Transfer Window under his supervision.

Makes the manager situation even more messy mind.

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Mister AT on June 14, 2021, 03:27:06 PM
Can we tempt the academy staff back now he’s gone?

In all seriousness though, I’m not bothered about him leaving, the timing probably isn’t the best but it is what it is. If we can get a mew DoF in with the new manager, both will be eager to impress.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WBArgo on June 14, 2021, 03:27:15 PM
For those saying good riddance etc...John Percy and Masi have both said that he wanted Wilder, which Lai overturned.

I'm not the biggest fan of Dowling and think he was a bit of a loudmouth. However, that would have been the best deal we'd have done all window. Now we are looking in the bargain basement. It also potentially moves more power to the owners...perhaps with Dowling staying it was better the devil you know. Who on earth would want to work with us right now, wether as a dof or manager?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Blowee on June 14, 2021, 03:28:00 PM
Looking forward to Chief Executive Xu Ke‘s statement! Perhaps they have a manager from China planned - remember Sammy Chung anyone?!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 14, 2021, 03:28:50 PM
Here's a novel idea. Just get a manager, not a head coach. Maybe removing Dowling is a prelude to this.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie38 on June 14, 2021, 03:30:13 PM
Think the door has been removed due to all of the comings and goings!

They won't shell out for a new one either.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on June 14, 2021, 03:31:09 PM
This is fantastic news, there is no other way to spin it. The guy is a disaster and this gives us a completely clean slate. I'm absolutely delighted.

There are plenty of sports management consultancies that the guys at the top of the club can access to move forward. Big no to a 3rd spell of Jenkins too.
On the one hand pleased to see Dowling gone, but who are these sports management consultancies, and what qualifications do you need to run one? 
I would have thought knowing the club culture was an important qualification, which gives Jenkins a head start.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: paulosull on June 14, 2021, 03:34:54 PM
For those saying good riddance etc...John Percy and Masi have both said that he wanted Wilder, which Lai overturned.

I'm not the biggest fan of Dowling and think he was a bit of a loudmouth. However, that would have been the best deal we'd have done all window. Now we are looking in the bargain basement. It also potentially moves more power to the owners...perhaps with Dowling staying it was better the devil you know. Who on earth would want to work with us right now, wether as a dof or manager?
bloke was in over his head Jenkins probably covered his limitations as he appointed Slaven. Allardyce was no brainer when owner lost faith in Bilic and it appears he wanted Wilder even when those that employ him told him no.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: tommcneill on June 14, 2021, 03:35:52 PM
Shocked. Not shocked.

He had to go.

I’m very happy about this personally
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Blowee on June 14, 2021, 03:36:08 PM
Perhaps the stadium caretaker (Miles?) who apparently blocked Wilder could be the new DOF - we could do with a clean sweep at the club!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on June 14, 2021, 03:36:15 PM
He was useless, sure it isn’t what we need now but I didn’t fancy another Transfer Window under his supervision.

Makes the manager situation even more messy mind.
Exactly this , poor from the club but another Window of poor signings and short term thinking ? No thanks.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: BlackCountryPride68 on June 14, 2021, 03:38:27 PM
We really are a shambles.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: wba_1996 on June 14, 2021, 03:39:13 PM
Great news, shame Lai (or whoever actually owns us) isn’t following him.

We need a complete overhaul of this club, unfortunately there’s no chance these owners appoint anyone useful to replace him.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: mrmojorisin on June 14, 2021, 03:39:56 PM
All this goes to show what a mess the club is in. I think we can probably already say goodbye to promotion and hope for a sensible (ha ha) season of rebuilding
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggie79 on June 14, 2021, 03:41:05 PM
We really are a shambles.

If only we were that good.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: wba1993dave on June 14, 2021, 03:41:11 PM
Wouldn't be surprised if that's the end of the DOF model. Let's be honest it's been a total disaster since Ashworth left.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on June 14, 2021, 03:44:52 PM
Wouldn't be surprised if that's the end of the DOF model. Let's be honest it's been a total disaster since Ashworth left.

Most of the successful clubs in the last few years have had one though. It’s a bit like us saying “out head coach hIres have been **** recently so let’s do away with the role and let the players pick themselves”.

We just need to get the right one.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Blowee on June 14, 2021, 03:46:20 PM
Xu Ke set to release major West Brom statement on manager hunt:

“We have no idea what we are doing!” Xu Ke.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on June 14, 2021, 03:47:19 PM
Xu Ke set to release major West Brom statement on manager hunt:

“We have no idea what we are doing!” Xu Ke.

 ;D   ;D

Things are that bad here that i took that as an official statement for a brief second.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: phbaggies on June 14, 2021, 03:48:51 PM
HRK and Kipre ****housing Dowling by liking the announcement on Instagram  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: wbasoprano on June 14, 2021, 03:49:23 PM
Great news he has gone, way out his depth.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on June 14, 2021, 03:49:38 PM
HRK and Kipre ****housing Dowling by liking the announcement on Instagram  ;D ;D

Really? I dont know whether to laugh or cry or both.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: wbasoprano on June 14, 2021, 03:49:47 PM
HRK and Kipre ****housing Dowling by liking the announcement on Instagram  ;D ;D

Class haha
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: kirk on June 14, 2021, 03:51:22 PM
The man has done a terrific job with the youth set up and academy he has totally transformed both … at Villa
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on June 14, 2021, 03:52:33 PM
The man has done a terrific job with the youth set up and academy he has totally transformed both … at Villa

TBF has he played a blinder for them. As we all thought all along his damage to our academy was not worth it.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: phbaggies on June 14, 2021, 03:53:24 PM
Roy Hodgson to replace him?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggie79 on June 14, 2021, 03:53:28 PM
The whole of football are laughing at this joke of a football club. Can it get worse? Probably!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on June 14, 2021, 03:54:10 PM
The whole of football are laughing at this joke of a football club. Can it get worse? Probably!

Almost certainly now Lai seems to be having some say in matters.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on June 14, 2021, 03:54:37 PM
This appointment probably as important as the next team manager. Do Lai and Ken know where to look? Hope its not some business contact in China with zero understanding and contacts in the English game. He needs a sound commercial, business background, plus real football knowledge, including being a good judge of players. In theory, he also gets a major say in choosing the next manager.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: seteefeet on June 14, 2021, 03:54:39 PM
I don't see how this is bad timing, it's perfect timing surely?
We can now look to bring in a cohesive team to prepare for the new era. I thought that's what everyone wanted?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 14, 2021, 03:55:03 PM
The whole of football are laughing at this joke of a football club. Can it get worse? Probably!

Not interested in outside opinions. This is the best thing that's happened to the club for months.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 14, 2021, 03:55:38 PM
I don't see how this is bad timing, it's perfect timing surely?
We can now look to bring in a cohesive team to prepare for the new era. I thought that's what everyone wanted?

This.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: albion59 on June 14, 2021, 03:56:18 PM
Perhaps the stadium caretaker (Miles?) who apparently blocked Wilder could be the new DOF - we could do with a clean sweep at the club!
Trust me on this we do not want Mark Miles in charge  if you think Dowling is bad this would be end of story.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: darbolina on June 14, 2021, 03:56:28 PM
The man has done a terrific job with the youth set up and academy he has totally transformed both … at Villa

Quality , exactly. 

Good riddance in my book.

Perfect timing to get a cohesive DoF and Head Coach team in place
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: iwastherein68 on June 14, 2021, 03:57:38 PM
Not interested in outside opinions. This is the best thing that's happened to the club for months.
Agreed , and better now than later.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SirTonyM on June 14, 2021, 03:57:50 PM
Can the last one out please turn off the lights :)
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on June 14, 2021, 03:58:56 PM
Not interested in outside opinions. This is the best thing that's happened to the club for months.

Just seen Luke Dowling’s gone Jacko.

Absolutely fantastic!! Best news we’ve had in months. Brilliant 😃👍🏻
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SirTonyM on June 14, 2021, 04:02:12 PM
Been told previously owner Guochuan Lai had lost faith in Dowling. Simon Stone BBC

Everyone says Lai knows nothing about football...maybe knows more than we thought ;)

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 14, 2021, 04:03:45 PM
Been told previously owner Guochuan Lai had lost faith in Dowling. Simon Stone BBC

Everyone says Lai knows nothing about football...maybe knows more than we thought ;)

Suggests he had faith in him at one time. So knows FA   ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on June 14, 2021, 04:04:05 PM
I don't see how this is bad timing, it's perfect timing surely?
We can now look to bring in a cohesive team to prepare for the new era. I thought that's what everyone wanted?

Ideally a technical director is the one who draws up the blueprint of what type of manager we need, but I doubt they will be in place to hire some body that fits their vision.

We are now deep into planning for next season and have no manager or tech director. It isn’t ideal.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Mister AT on June 14, 2021, 04:04:57 PM
Granted he doesn’t have the experience but Paul Scharner was vocal a few months back about having that role within our club. Guessing he will throw his name in the hat.

Would love us to get Roy in.

Sadly can only see us hiring a businessman with little football knowledge or scrapping the role all together.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SirTonyM on June 14, 2021, 04:05:18 PM
Suggests he had faith in him at one time. So knows FA   ;D

Good point...Better late than never. Thats also the motto for the manager search when Pardew gets it again ;)
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on June 14, 2021, 04:06:33 PM
Been told previously owner Guochuan Lai had lost faith in Dowling. Simon Stone BBC

Everyone says Lai knows nothing about football...maybe knows more than we thought ;)

He knows how to wield his axe 😋
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on June 14, 2021, 04:07:26 PM
Here's a novel idea. Just get a manager, not a head coach. Maybe removing Dowling is a prelude to this.


MMM - See where you're going with this.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 14, 2021, 04:08:11 PM
I don't see how this is bad timing, it's perfect timing surely?
We can now look to bring in a cohesive team to prepare for the new era. I thought that's what everyone wanted?

My preference is that this should have happened last month and not following the press releases of our shoddy search for a new gaffer. Though it’s good news the timing is bad.

This was always going to be busy summer and we needed to make a quick start. We’re now without a manager, playing squad and director of football.

We have two rookies running the club with an absent owner who is suddenly placing his head above the parapet.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: hardtobeat on June 14, 2021, 04:08:46 PM
SFS ......Send For Scharner ! It may not last long but it would be lively ! 8) 8)
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: skyclad99 on June 14, 2021, 04:09:06 PM
For me this is a ‘careful what you wish for’ moment.

How many of you think that this circus is actually capable of recruiting someone better?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on June 14, 2021, 04:09:43 PM
Poor timing but maybe Lai and co have woke themselves up and realised this club is slipping quite quickly , If they want their money then they'll have to put some care and attention in and get the right staff this time . We need a rethink not a contact book , I'd sooner a club with a plan fail rather than a club bumbling along slowly falling to bits .
I've made my views on Dowling clear , for me this is a step in the right direction and another chance for Lai and co to build something , Dowling has had more than enough time and chances .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gazberg on June 14, 2021, 04:10:42 PM
If there is an option to hire a consultant ( if even such a thing exists) to oversee the appointment of our next DOF then do it. This appointment is absolutely crucial to get right.

I think Jacko said something about this earlier and he's right.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: gerry m on June 14, 2021, 04:11:55 PM
Just when you thought this club couldn't get more of a shambles.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on June 14, 2021, 04:12:01 PM
Been told previously owner Guochuan Lai had lost faith in Dowling. Simon Stone BBC

Understandable when Dowling's manager shortlist all came to nothing.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 14, 2021, 04:14:52 PM
For me this is a ‘careful what you wish for’ moment.

How many of you think that this circus is actually capable of recruiting someone better?

A part of me wonders whether we’re going to bin off the DOF position to be honest..

We won’t be recruiting a manager anytime soon if we need to fill this position first.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 14, 2021, 04:15:55 PM
For me this is a ‘careful what you wish for’ moment.

How many of you think that this circus is actually capable of recruiting someone better?

Me. Virtually anyone is better. Dowling was an atrocious appointment who has dismantled the academy. Failed to replace Moore properly. Actively worked against the next permanent head coach and seemed to have carte blanche over the entire club. A man promoted well above his capability. Thank Lai he's gone.

Poor timing but maybe Lai and co have woke themselves up and realised this club is slipping quite quickly , If they want their money then they'll have to put some care and attention in and get the right staff this time . We need a rethink not a contact book , I'd sooner a club with a plan fail rather than a club bumbling along slowly falling to bits .
I've made my views on Dowling clear , for me this is a step in the right direction and another chance for Lai and co to build something , Dowling has had more than enough time and chances .

Think this is far more likely than the chaos suggested by other posters tbh.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WBA.R.K on June 14, 2021, 04:16:00 PM
Don't see Ken or Lai even knowing they can operate without a DOF
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WorcsWBA on June 14, 2021, 04:18:43 PM
Whilst Dowling leaving is good news overall IMO, the timing of it is senseless - he should have gone as soon as it was obvious that we were going down. Unless we're planning to go back to having a manager rather than a head coach, we're now in turmoil with 2 posts to fill and with one of them being dependent on the other being in post. The season starts in 8 weeks.

Dowling was the only "football person" in a senior management position at the Club. Those clamouring for Jenkins to replace him need to bear in mind that Jenkins is a financial specialist. Our Board actually only consists of 3 people:

Chairman: Li Piyue
Chief Executive: Ken
Operations Director: Mark Miles

None of them know anything about the football side (or much else based on the available evidence). Chris Lepkowski has tweeted (https://twitter.com/chrislepkowski/status/1404444077412716551) following the announcement about Dowling: "of course just a few weeks after the Financial Director announced he was also leaving the club, having resigned. Some strange things going on at the top of WBA". He's referring to Lee Cooper and I must admit that it has passed me by if him leaving has previously been reported. It does leave me wondering if the Board actually has a quorum at the moment?

All we can do now is wait for Ken's statement to see if that sheds any light on what appears to have moved on from a farce to a disgraceful shambles.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on June 14, 2021, 04:19:33 PM
SFS ......Send For Scharner ! It may not last long but it would be lively ! 8) 8)
Certainly worth sounding him out. He may not be up to date with what's happening in the Championship, but I thought he had some business experience and would definitely have a strong affinity with the club.   
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Manc Baggie on June 14, 2021, 04:20:15 PM
Dear whoever is left of the WBAFC Board of Directors,

I wish to apply for the recently vacated position of Director of Football at the Hawthornes.

Whilst I have absolutely no previous experience of a Director of Football role, based on the success of the most recent incumbent, I would consider this fact to be a huge advantage.

I am already completely familiar with the existing policies of not giving youth a chance / selling any half decent youth players for peanuts / not doing anything to upset Barcelona, as well as being entirely confident that I could fulfil the player recruitment role in the time honoured, tombola approach to 'over paid has beens’ and 'never were’s’. I am also willing to work with more state of the art systems such as the names on a dartboard method and possibly the Ouija Board method of player selection, although I expect some training will be required with these systems.
I am willing to provide my own player recruitment divining rod if the club’d own divining rod is as broken as seems to be the case based on recent years.
Also, please be assured that I can continue to recruit using the existing method of watching whatever football competition is on freeview over the summer to spot any out of contract donkeys willing to put up with several lucrative contracts for a few years at the club.

Money Management and value for money won’t be an issue as thanks to my Missus, I am a strong believer in the putting money away every week in envelopes for each bill system. I am also very experienced in the one penny challenge method of saving for Christmas, so agreeing multi million pound player contracts will be unlikely to present any difficulties.

Finally, in view of my recent application for the vacant First Team Manager / Player Coach role, I  want to assure you that I am willing to take on both roles simultaneously, again on a part time basis, as the DOF role doesn’t seem to amount to more than a couple of hours work a week, albeit, I acknowledge that more time is needed during the all important watching summer tournament on TV period.

Obviously, some thought will need to be applied to the logistics of appointing me to both roles as this may raise the issue of having to sack myself in a few weeks time, however I feel certain that with our current Fred Carno approach to running the club, this won’t be an issue.

I trust you find this application of interest & I look forward to your favourable reply.
Best regards.
Manc Baggie.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: OhBilics on June 14, 2021, 04:36:02 PM
Granted he doesn’t have the experience but Paul Scharner was vocal a few months back about having that role within our club. Guessing he will throw his name in the hat.
Way too mouthy for Mr Lai's liking, I'm sure!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: AlbionFan on June 14, 2021, 04:36:51 PM
Hopefully, with Dowling's departure, we have reached rock bottom, and now, the only way is up COYB!!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 14, 2021, 04:38:22 PM
Hopefully, with Dowling's departure, we have reached rock bottom, and now, the only way is up COYB!!

I'd argue we reached rock bottom (administerially) on 26 September 2018.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alwaysbilly on June 14, 2021, 04:49:24 PM
Dear whoever is left of the WBAFC Board of Directors,

I wish to apply for the recently vacated position of Director of Football at the Hawthornes.

Whilst I have absolutely no previous experience of a Director of Football role, based on the success of the most recent incumbent, I would consider this fact to be a huge advantage.

I am already completely familiar with the existing policies of not giving youth a chance / selling any half decent youth players for peanuts / not doing anything to upset Barcelona, as well as being entirely confident that I could fulfil the player recruitment role in the time honoured, tombola approach to 'over paid has beens’ and 'never were’s’. I am also willing to work with more state of the art systems such as the names on a dartboard method and possibly the Ouija Board method of player selection, although I expect some training will be required with these systems.
I am willing to provide my own player recruitment divining rod if the club’d own divining rod is as broken as seems to be the case based on recent years.
Also, please be assured that I can continue to recruit using the existing method of watching whatever football competition is on freeview over the summer to spot any out of contract donkeys willing to put up with several lucrative contracts for a few years at the club.

Money Management and value for money won’t be an issue as thanks to my Missus, I am a strong believer in the putting money away every week in envelopes for each bill system. I am also very experienced in the one penny challenge method of saving for Christmas, so agreeing multi million pound player contracts will be unlikely to present any difficulties.

Finally, in view of my recent application for the vacant First Team Manager / Player Coach role, I  want to assure you that I am willing to take on both roles simultaneously, again on a part time basis, as the DOF role doesn’t seem to amount to more than a couple of hours work a week, albeit, I acknowledge that more time is needed during the all important watching summer tournament on TV period.

Obviously, some thought will need to be applied to the logistics of appointing me to both roles as this may raise the issue of having to sack myself in a few weeks time, however I feel certain that with our current Fred Carno approach to running the club, this won’t be an issue.

I trust you find this application of interest & I look forward to your favourable reply.
Best regards.
Manc Baggie.

Provided no compensation I’d say you in with a shout
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: skyclad99 on June 14, 2021, 05:03:15 PM
Whilst Dowling leaving is good news overall IMO, the timing of it is senseless - he should have gone as soon as it was obvious that we were going down. Unless we're planning to go back to having a manager rather than a head coach, we're now in turmoil with 2 posts to fill and with one of them being dependent on the other being in post. The season starts in 8 weeks.

Dowling was the only "football person" in a senior management position at the Club. Those clamouring for Jenkins to replace him need to bear in mind that Jenkins is a financial specialist. Our Board actually only consists of 3 people:

Chairman: Li Piyue
Chief Executive: Ken
Operations Director: Mark Miles

None of them know anything about the football side (or much else based on the available evidence). Chris Lepkowski has tweeted (https://twitter.com/chrislepkowski/status/1404444077412716551) following the announcement about Dowling: "of course just a few weeks after the Financial Director announced he was also leaving the club, having resigned. Some strange things going on at the top of WBA". He's referring to Lee Cooper and I must admit that it has passed me by if him leaving has previously been reported. It does leave me wondering if the Board actually has a quorum at the moment?

All we can do now is wait for Ken's statement to see if that sheds any light on what appears to have moved on from a farce to a disgraceful shambles.

I knew Cooper had gone, as I was trying to wordsmith some 'jeans based' jokes, but eventually gave up. He has been replaced by a former Fosun employee.

I said earlier 'be careful what you wish for'. Whilst most of us wanted Dowling out, it was very difficult to make any progress with the very limited financial resources made available to him, although I will concede that his record was not good. The 'Allardyce gamble' didn't come off, so he is a '3 out of 10, see me' employee in the eyes of Lai.

I am mindful of the document provided on this forum recently in respect of the sale of St Andrews. I noted that all interested parties were from China, and I am wondering if we are fast going in the same direction.

So, to put it bluntly I would not be surprised at all if our next Sporting Director is from China and has a ‘vast amount of experience recruiting/operating in the Chinese league’. 

As I say, careful what you wish for........

Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on June 14, 2021, 05:18:34 PM

I am mindful of the document provided on this forum recently in respect of the sale of St Andrews. I noted that all interested parties were from China, and I am wondering if we are fast going in the same direction.

So, to put it bluntly I would not be surprised at all if our next Sporting Director is from China and has a vast amount of experience recruiting/operating in the Chinese league. 

As I say, careful what you wish for........
If they start trying to make 'football decisions' by someone based in China, that's going to go badly pear-shaped. Things will go quickly from bad to worse. That Chinese player who Lai bought and loaned out to Werder Bremen was a bit of a disaster. I don't think he made a single appeaarnce for their first team.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie38 on June 14, 2021, 05:30:46 PM
I'd love it if we ran with no sporting and technical director and just scrapped the head coach title. Get a manager in and give him full control of transfers etc. The sporting and technical director model hasn't worked since Ashworth left all those years ago. Since then we have had Garlic, Burton, Hammond, The Italian fella and Dowling. All of which have been colossal failures. 1 success to 5 failures. Scrap it now Albion and learn your lessons.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: tuamigos on June 14, 2021, 05:34:56 PM
I don't see how this is bad timing, it's perfect timing surely?
We can now look to bring in a cohesive team to prepare for the new era. I thought that's what everyone wanted?

This is West Brom your talking about
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: seteefeet on June 14, 2021, 05:44:02 PM
This is West Brom your talking about
I'm not in the "we are a shambles" brigade though.
We were promoted the season before last and went down, expectedly, due to lack of finance.
Everyone going on about doing a Sunderland etc. well Sunderland (and Forest, and Sheff wed and Derby and Blues etc. etc.) would love to do a West Brom.
Dowling had to go if he was involved in the leak about Wilder and will not be difficult to replace. Once that's done we get a new head coach in and prepare for August.
Come May we'll be top 6 minimum.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on June 14, 2021, 06:11:13 PM
Does Dan Ashworth earn 7 figures a year with BHA.

If not, go get him, pay what it takes. It’s the best investment Lai could now make. Give him all the authority he wants.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: skyclad99 on June 14, 2021, 06:12:58 PM
Does Dan Ashworth earn 7 figures a year with BHA.

If not, go get him, pay what it takes. It’s the best investment Lai could now make. Give him all the authority he wants.

Brilliant plan JC right up to that point......... ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on June 14, 2021, 06:28:19 PM
I'd love it if we ran with no sporting and technical director and just scrapped the head coach title. Get a manager in and give him full control of transfers etc. The sporting and technical director model hasn't worked since Ashworth left all those years ago. Since then we have had Garlic, Burton, Hammond, The Italian fella and Dowling. All of which have been colossal failures. 1 success to 5 failures. Scrap it now Albion and learn your lessons.

I’m thinking the same as you baggie38. It’s been 10 years since Dan Ashworth left the Albion for the FA. Perhaps it’s time we moved on from the technical director/head coach model. Especially given some of the unmitigated disasters we’ve had since as described in your post.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on June 14, 2021, 06:32:19 PM
I'd love it if we ran with no sporting and technical director and just scrapped the head coach title. Get a manager in and give him full control of transfers etc. The sporting and technical director model hasn't worked since Ashworth left all those years ago. Since then we have had Garlic, Burton, Hammond, The Italian fella and Dowling. All of which have been colossal failures. 1 success to 5 failures. Scrap it now Albion and learn your lessons.

IMO, to do that, you would need to get rid of the academy, it just wouldn't be possible for one man to focus on the first team & the academy.
Lai's eco town project which included football facilities & academies, appears to be dead in the water, so it could be in his mind to dismantle our academy.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: AlbionFan on June 14, 2021, 06:59:45 PM
Alister Jones, ex WBA Sky Fan Zone commentator Tweeted

I never post, I know a lot of what goes on behind the scenes at our club, but we are in trouble. Said for a long time be careful what you wish for. Hope the people who think Dowling was the problem are happy. Desperately worrying times, next Sunderland written all over this
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on June 14, 2021, 07:17:30 PM
Alister Jones, ex WBA Sky Fan Zone commentator Tweeted

I never post, I know a lot of what goes on behind the scenes at our club, but we are in trouble. Said for a long time be careful what you wish for. Hope the people who think Dowling was the problem are happy. Desperately worrying times, next Sunderland written all over this

I agree with him. It is a shambles.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on June 14, 2021, 07:22:05 PM
I agree with him. It is a shambles.
I must admit as much as I've made case against Dowling the timing is strange at best , to allow the retained / released list to be done a few weeks back is odd to say the least .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Gilsey 56 on June 14, 2021, 07:22:59 PM
Lets be honest and I posted at the time , I don't know how he could carry on in his post after the rug was pulled from under him by our owner, so to me it was only a matter of time. he wasn't going to walk but wait until he was shoved and take a nice little hand shake with him.
I reserve my judgement on the goings on until its all done and dusted , but I must say at the moment I feel like I'm hanging over a cliff edge by a piece of cotton.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: mig on June 14, 2021, 07:25:12 PM
For me it's not the model in itself that is the problem, but the people we hire to perform the key role(s) within it. But beyond that, it's becoming more and more evident that there are far greater influences on Lai than the DoF anyway, so it almost doesn't matter who fulfils that role.

The big decisions taken at this club seem to often be reactionary and based on outdated stereotypes. Things like 'Pulis/Allardyce guarantee Prem survival' or 'you need experience over youth / inexperience of the league/country'. Even Allardyce apparently advising on our next appointment by saying the manager needs to have experience in getting promoted from the championship. That's hugely limiting but if it carries weight with Lai then it's what we go with. Unfortunately it seems whoever is influencing Lai tends to hold these outdated views.

Lai of course buys into this because he needs to get back to the Prem asap so that he can sell. It's frustrating because it leads to cheap and short-term decisions which in my opinion are still high risk - and if they fail to work then we will soon find ourselves in a very precarious position.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WBArgo on June 14, 2021, 07:37:48 PM
bloke was in over his head Jenkins probably covered his limitations as he appointed Slaven. Allardyce was no brainer when owner lost faith in Bilic and it appears he wanted Wilder even when those that employ him told him no.

Yes, I get that he may have been over his head - but he's not the main problem here, the owners are.

WHY would you not want Wilder?! What if we bring in Alex Neill? I don't care about Dowling at that point, somethings clearly very wrong and as I say, Dowling is not the main problem, he's barely even a symptom.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie38 on June 14, 2021, 07:38:39 PM
This so called statement is taking its time isn't it
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie96 on June 14, 2021, 08:17:32 PM
Pereira liking posts on Twitter slating Dowling  ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Mister AT on June 14, 2021, 08:30:54 PM
Pereira liking posts on Twitter seating Dowling  ;D

Just seen he liked the wba post announcing Dowling had gone. Robson Kanu and Kipre also liked the post on Instagram.

Seems he wasn’t very liked within the club.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on June 14, 2021, 08:31:47 PM
Pereira liking podsts on Twitter seating Dowling  ;D
Crikey , its genuine too .  :o
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on June 14, 2021, 08:32:40 PM
It’s pretty clear to me that Bilic was building a team, Dowling insisted on adding players Bilic didn’t rate / want and consequently Bilic went, now Dowling has gone the Bilic players are pleased and the outcasts are similarly pleased.
We now enter “need someone to pull the club together territory” last time this happened Darren got the gig, those joking about Mozza / Brunty may not be so far off the mark !!!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on June 14, 2021, 08:35:13 PM
I'd day that the statement this evening strongly suggests we will move away from the technical director model, atleast in the shirt term. Talk of reviewing however structure our football operation. Lai wants more say and hands on control of how things are done. Will be a disaster based on the lack of football nous they have shown so far.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on June 14, 2021, 08:48:18 PM
I'd day that the statement this evening strongly suggests we will move away from the technical director model, atleast in the shirt term. Talk of reviewing however structure our football operation. Lai wants more say and hands on control of how things are done. Will be a disaster based on the lack of football nous they have shown so far.

No evidence of that. He loves to fire people. Just as he kicked Williams and Hammond out, now it is Dowling. What makes you think Lai will be hands on? He's never even in the country.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on June 14, 2021, 08:49:37 PM
It’s pretty clear to me that Bilic was building a team, Dowling insisted on adding players Bilic didn’t rate / want and consequently Bilic went, now Dowling has gone the Bilic players are pleased and the outcasts are similarly pleased.
We now enter “need someone to pull the club together territory” last time this happened Darren got the gig, those joking about Mozza / Brunty may not be so far off the mark !!!

This is rational view, given what we know. The players probably blame Dowling for sacking their manager and are glad to see the back of him.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albionic on June 14, 2021, 08:53:03 PM
This is rational view, given what we know. The players probably blame Dowling for sacking their manager and are glad to see the back of him.
Players will also have seen the academy raped and whilst it wouldn’t affect them directly there will have been relationships which were destroyed, all adds to an atmosphere of general antithesis towards the man responsible
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on June 14, 2021, 09:00:08 PM
Just seen he liked the wba post announcing Dowling had gone. Robson Kanu and Kipre also liked the post on Instagram.

Seems he wasn’t very liked within the club.

I’m glad we’re rid of his filth.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on June 14, 2021, 09:34:21 PM
No evidence of that. He loves to fire people. Just as he kicked Williams and Hammond out, now it is Dowling. What makes you think Lai will be hands on? He's never even in the country.

It's purely my reading of the situation following the goings on of the last few weeks and the statement tonight. It seems Dowling kept trying to push through Wilder against Leo's wishes. Next thing we know, Dowling is gone and the club are announcing a review of how we do our football operations.

I'd say that means Lai is considering doing away with the technical director role and instead having his people make the key decisions and his people only.

We will see.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WorcsWBA on June 14, 2021, 10:00:23 PM
Just seen he liked the wba post announcing Dowling had gone. Robson Kanu and Kipre also liked the post on Instagram.

Seems he wasn’t very liked within the club.
It's an interesting dichotomy between what Alister Jones has said and some players being publicly supportive of Dowling's departure. I'm happy that he's gone, but the blundering and incoherent incompetence of the "strategy" (e.g. the timing of Dowling's departure) being employed by the 3 green bottles still standing on the wall gives me no confidence that optimal decisions will be made going forward. They need to expand the Board by bringing in "proper" experienced football people.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheBaggieMan on June 14, 2021, 10:04:56 PM
Hands on by Lai and Co from China using Zoom meetings?
Coaching via FaceTime?
The whole situation is a joke!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on June 14, 2021, 10:11:20 PM
Experienced football people / person  is the sort of shout I’ve seen a few times.

However, does anyone actually know who these people are?  I didn’t like Dowling, but I do think appointing for this job is harder than appointing the manager.

I’m sure someone could, but I bet most of us couldn’t name 10 experienced football people suitable for our TD job.

You can’t just stick any ex player there and you cannot just stick any ex manager in either. The two I actually know Webber and Ashworth had unique trajectory's in to those positions
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on June 14, 2021, 10:20:13 PM
Experienced football people / person  is the sort of shout I’ve seen a few times.

However, does anyone actually know who these people are?  I didn’t like Dowling, but I do think appointing for this job is harder than appointing the manager.

I’m sure someone could, but I bet most of us couldn’t name 10 experienced football people suitable for our TD job.

You can’t just stick any ex player there and you cannot just stick any ex manager in either. The two I actually know Webber and Ashworth had unique trajectory's in to those positions

Agree, Ashworth started with a very narrow brief, but he was able to sell his ideas to JP & the job developed around him.
I also think Ashworth was in the right place at the right time, & there opporunities just don't come up very often.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: KN22 on June 14, 2021, 10:21:42 PM
So are we overloaded with central midfielders, assuming Pereira is not staying? Its not just about whether Harper is worth more than a million, which in today's market he is, its whether we have sufficient quality midfielders ready for a 46 match season.

Your point is irrelevant when the player in question(Harper) is not good enough. Just my view and no issue if you think differently.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Mister AT on June 14, 2021, 10:52:35 PM
Having a quick scan through the other 23 championship teams they aren’t many clubs set up with a director of football. Also worth noting there are 2-3 clubs owned by Chinese businessmen who don’t have a DoF in their structure.

I have no issue with us not replacing Dowling, providing we bring in a good enough manager/head coach and some supporting staff to have a good stab at building a squad.

The GK positions are ok I feel, with or without Johnstone.

The back 4 are likely to stay the same, adding Kipre as back up and maybe another addition or two.

Midfield is now threadbare, with Harper leaving. The new man only has Livermore and Sawyers available in the middle, possibly Snodgrass too depending on where he will be played and his recovery.

Wingers we seem ok with, Phillips, Grady, Robinson, plus any new additions.

Grant and Zohore available up top. Still think we can get a tune out of KG, but will need to bring in at least 2 more to support.

If we can bring in a new boss soon enough, there are plenty of decent players out of contract, some of which are playing at the Euros so probably won’t sign any contracts until they are knocked out and see what interest is available.

I’ve said before, my biggest concern is trusting Ken and Lai with making the right choice, with no ‘footballing’ brain left on the heirachy we are trusting them to pick the right candidate without really knowing too much about them.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WorcsWBA on June 14, 2021, 11:06:23 PM
So are we overloaded with central midfielders, assuming Pereira is not staying? Its not just about whether Harper is worth more than a million, which in today's market he is, its whether we have sufficient quality midfielders ready for a 46 match season.
Things have changed a lot since you posted this. My view is Harper isn't good enough, so we shouldn't be looking to keep him just because we're lacking in numbers. However, more pertinent now is what's happening regarding the negotiations with Ipswich? Have they been shelved for the time being or, if not, who is conducting them and what knowledge and experience do they have to be able to do that to an acceptable standard?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on June 14, 2021, 11:23:43 PM
Stephen Hopcroft, now of Villa’s academy has just tweeted a picture of Dowling captioned “chaos reigns”, saying “this should have been the headline the day he was appointed”.

Safe to say a lot of people are happy to see him go.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Mister AT on June 14, 2021, 11:29:20 PM
Stephen Hopcroft, now of Villa’s academy has just tweeted a picture of Dowling captioned “chaos reigns”, saying “this should have been the headline the day he was appointed”.

Safe to say a lot of people are happy to see him go.

The major reason majority of our academy staff are at villa park is because of Dowling. Former staff and current players making/liking tweets shows what they really think of him. If we had owners who I had trust in, I’d say it’s a good day for the club.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: ttree30 on June 14, 2021, 11:34:12 PM
Dowling leaves a legacy of precisely nothing.

He appears to have dismantled much of our youth infrastructure (most of which has now decamped to a much more successful Aston Villa), wasted money on many poor signings, made questionable managerial calls and left the club much weaker than he found it.

In his defence he has an owner who must be almost impossible to work with.

But he never inspired any confidence in me that he’d been anything other than over promoted. His departure, however, adds even more to the sense of crisis and chaos - and no belief that the people left behind have the first clue what they’re doing.

I also fear our team is nowhere near as good as some believe, and the signs are increasingly pointing to the end of our 20 years of bouncing back to the EPL.

If ever the club needed some good news….
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: BaggieNick on June 14, 2021, 11:44:46 PM
Fantastic news - at last!

He was completely incompetent.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on June 15, 2021, 12:00:51 AM
It’s still a big positive Dowling’s gone.

He had to answer for the poor decision making he’s made over the last 3 years.

Don’t really know any Albion fans that rated the bloke. I’m relieved he’s been shown the door.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 15, 2021, 12:08:26 AM
It’s still a big positive Dowling’s gone.

He had to answer for the poor decision making he’s made over the last 3 years.

Don’t really know any Albion fans that rated the bloke. I’m relieved he’s been shown the door.

A guy called Warren on Twitter seems pretty upset about his removal... only one I've come across though.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on June 15, 2021, 12:39:56 AM
Even though many are pleased to see the back of Dowling, including some ex coaching staff, its unrealistic to think we can appoint just one manager who can look after everything. The team manager has more than enough on his plate managing the first team, without doing all the jobs a Football Director does. The manager can still have an important input into transfer decisions,  but Ken badly needs someone next to him with in-depth knowledge of the football industry and able to assess players.

Someone like Roy could offer alot of sound football advice and contacts, but there's more to a DoF post than just that. He has to be able to make business decisions, negotiate contracts and be able to organise staff. If its true that Sharner has business experience, he could be the perfect candidate,  so I hope the club at least listen to what he can offer.   

Maybe Ken has some good business experience, but there's no way that he and Lai should be left to identify and assess playing and coaching staff. He needs a proper football man next to him. How that man is found I don't know. I sometimes wonder if the ex Players Association ever do anything to help out the club. Maybe some of them have contacts who could be useful for the club.   



Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: beechyboy90 on June 15, 2021, 12:56:03 AM
Dowling gone thats a good news day.
Scrap manager search DOF next. We should be trying to poach a decent one from somewhere better to blow some wages on a decent dof then a poor one who authorities contracts for mears peltier and some of the other players we wasted thousamds a week on
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on June 15, 2021, 05:18:44 AM
You will never please everyone but its a bit concerning our best youth coach in the last 30 years ( Hopcroft ) and our best player Pereira seem to have quickly stuck the boot in one way or the other .
H.R.K might be sour at being let go but Kipre was a Dowling signing!  :o
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: iwastherein68 on June 15, 2021, 05:56:31 AM
You will never please everyone but its a bit concerning our best youth coach in the last 30 years ( Hopcroft ) and our best player Pereira seem to have quickly stuck the boot in one way or the other .
H.R.K might be sour at being let go but Kipre was a Dowling signing!  :o
Disgraceful treatment of a player, ignored by Bilic, and loaned out to a poor Belgian side where he has hardly played. Innocent victim of the Dowling / Bilic infighting.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Critical Baggie on June 15, 2021, 07:50:36 AM
Can't say Im too heartbroken, his performance has been patchy at best. That said, if it's true Dowling left because Lai wouldn't accept any of Dowling's recommendations for Head Coach, fair play to him for leaving as a matter of principle. I think a fair few of know how it feels to have the kinda boss who one minute is nowhere to been seen then next minute is micro-managing only the things that interest them.

Regardless who comes in, Lai won't change. We will have the same problem of no football knowledge at the top, no budget and no long term vision. Lai is panicking. He's been rinsed out of 200m for an asset on the decline and is now taking matters into his own hands.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 15, 2021, 08:16:08 AM
Stephen Hopcroft, now of Villa’s academy has just tweeted a picture of Dowling captioned “chaos reigns”, saying “this should have been the headline the day he was appointed”.

Safe to say a lot of people are happy to see him go.

This is Dowling’s legacy..
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Baggies on June 15, 2021, 08:35:02 AM
I'm feeling really flat about the Albion this morning. The move away from the tech director model is a step backwards - 17/18 of the 20 prem clubs now have one. Instead we are being run by people who now have no idea about the football side of the business.

No manager, no football director and for me, an expectation that we will be spending the next 4 or 5 years in the championship.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SmethDan on June 15, 2021, 09:31:59 AM
I'm feeling really flat about the Albion this morning.....

Never mind, the sun's shining and it's the start of a brand new day. Pat yourself on the back for being you and smile at what the day has in store. Or not.....  ;D .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: ttree30 on June 15, 2021, 09:55:42 AM
I'm feeling really flat about the Albion this morning. The move away from the tech director model is a step backwards - 17/18 of the 20 prem clubs now have one. Instead we are being run by people who now have no idea about the football side of the business.

No manager, no football director and for me, an expectation that we will be spending the next 4 or 5 years in the championship.

Only 4 or 5 years?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: ashdoy on June 15, 2021, 10:11:30 AM
The E&S piece on Dowling’s departure is spot on.

Careful what you wish for ladies and gents. This ride is about to get a whole lot bumpier.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on June 15, 2021, 11:08:48 AM
E&S sums it up nicely:

"An absent owner. No manager. No structure. A squad in desperate need of additions. And now no sporting and technical director following the news Luke Dowling has left the club by mutual consent. The situation at The Hawthorns is bleak. The club is, very simply, in disarray."

Yet we have some on here praising the lovely the statement released last night and delighted with the news, incredible.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: seteefeet on June 15, 2021, 11:11:28 AM
E&S sums it up nicely:

"An absent owner. No manager. No structure. A squad in desperate need of additions. And now no sporting and technical director following the news Luke Dowling has left the club by mutual consent. The situation at The Hawthorns is bleak. The club is, very simply, in disarray."

Yet we have some on here praising the lovely the statement released last night and delighted with the news, incredible.
A bit like you, they have focussed entirely on the negatives.

Have you always been a fan of the Express and Dingle or only when they support your pessimism?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on June 15, 2021, 11:16:46 AM
The E&S piece on Dowling’s departure is spot on.

Careful what you wish for ladies and gents. This ride is about to get a whole lot bumpier.

It's absolutely not, it's pure conjecture from Masi.

Local journos have become populist, they're telling the fans what they want to hear.

It's clear from reactions of people who knew him that LD was unpopular.
Being unpopular is not a problem if you're getting results, LD wasn't.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggiejohn on June 15, 2021, 11:19:39 AM
Even though many are pleased to see the back of Dowling, including some ex coaching staff, its unrealistic to think we can appoint just one manager who can look after everything. The team manager has more than enough on his plate managing the first team, without doing all the jobs a Football Director does. The manager can still have an important input into transfer decisions,  but Ken badly needs someone next to him with in-depth knowledge of the football industry and able to assess players.

Someone like Roy could offer alot of sound football advice and contacts, but there's more to a DoF post than just that. He has to be able to make business decisions, negotiate contracts and be able to organise staff. If its true that Sharner has business experience, he could be the perfect candidate,  so I hope the club at least listen to what he can offer.   

Maybe Ken has some good business experience, but there's no way that he and Lai should be left to identify and assess playing and coaching staff. He needs a proper football man next to him. How that man is found I don't know. I sometimes wonder if the ex Players Association ever do anything to help out the club. Maybe some of them have contacts who could be useful for the club.   

Roy recommended Terry Burton & Alan Irvine, just saying
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on June 15, 2021, 11:21:39 AM
A bit like you, they have focussed entirely on the negatives.

Have you always been a fan of the Express and Dingle or only when they support your pessimism?

Have you ever considered a career in stand-up? The guy in charge of ticket office has been on a committee of three, now two overseeing the managerial search. The other being a child without any football or executive experience. Their article is very well balanced and written, addressing all the substantive points. It's not just the E&S journalist either. Adrian Goldberg and Chris Lepkowski were equally as scathing, as is Steve Madeley at the Athletic.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Mr Cynical on June 15, 2021, 11:57:30 AM
Glad he's gone.  Never liked him.  Did a Terrible job.  Timing of departure is a nightmare!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: seteefeet on June 15, 2021, 12:02:11 PM
Have you ever considered a career in stand-up? The guy in charge of ticket office has been on a committee of three, now two overseeing the managerial search. The other being a child without any football or executive experience. Their article is very well balanced and written, addressing all the substantive points. It's not just the E&S journalist either. Adrian Goldberg and Chris Lepkowski were equally as scathing, as is Steve Madeley at the Athletic.
So none of the above mentioned the strength of the squad or the size of the budget? Or the fact that Dowling was, in fact, not very good, and not well respected around the club and therefore, is no great loss? Did they pick up on the intention to regroup and re-evaluate the structure, like many have advocated for so long? If not then they are as one-eyed as you. If they did and you omitted it, then you are just accentuating the negatives as usual.

If we believe your narrative we are a lost cause.
We quite simply are not, but, if you truly believe it, then why not give up? You only seem to want to criticise, after all, I don't see any constructive suggestion of what you think we should be doing.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: ashdoy on June 15, 2021, 12:44:28 PM
Bar one season in the Prem where no manager or DoF would/could have succeeded LD helped bring some pride back to Albion.

Some amazing signings in our Bilic era, some good finds last year albeit couple with some poor decisions.

This summer he had Wilder on a plate. Why people are looking beyond Lai as being the problem is beyond me.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 15, 2021, 12:48:52 PM
Bar one season in the Prem where no manager or DoF would/could have succeeded LD helped bring some pride back to Albion.

Some amazing signings in our Bilic era, some good finds last year albeit couple with some poor decisions.

This summer he had Wilder on a plate. Why people are looking beyond Lai as being the problem is beyond me.

Good afternoon Luke. Don't let the door hit you on the way out...  ;D

He contributed virtually nothing to the senior team and destroyed our reputation in youth football.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on June 15, 2021, 01:06:50 PM
Good afternoon Luke. Don't let the door hit you on the way out...  ;D

He contributed virtually nothing to the senior team and destroyed our reputation in youth football.

Dowling put together the squad that won automatic promotion from the championship last time out. I know you hate him but it is a bit churlish to pretend is was all a disaster on his watch. Secondly, didn't we get to the FA Cup semi-final with the academy last season? My biggest gripe with the DOF leaving it the timing, which is as bad as it can be.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 15, 2021, 01:30:55 PM
Dowling put together the squad that won automatic promotion from the championship last time out. I know you hate him but it is a bit churlish to pretend is was all a disaster on his watch. Secondly, didn't we get to the FA Cup semi-final with the academy last season? My biggest gripe with the DOF leaving it the timing, which is as bad as it can be.

There was no bad time to remove Luke Dowling from the club.

Bilić and his signings dragged an average squad over the line with lower midtable form over 6 months.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: ashdoy on June 15, 2021, 01:37:40 PM
Good afternoon Luke. Don't let the door hit you on the way out...  ;D

He contributed virtually nothing to the senior team and destroyed our reputation in youth football.

So finding Sawyers, Ajayi, Furlong, Periera didn’t add anything to our club no?

Jacko, believe it or not, you can be wrong from time to time you know. And others can have an opinion too 👍🏻
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 15, 2021, 01:39:48 PM
So finding Sawyers, Ajayi, Furlong, Periera didn’t add anything to our club no?

Jacko, believe it or not, you can be wrong from time to time you know. And others can have an opinion too 👍🏻

He didn't find Pereira. As for the other 3? What a legacy... Furlong couldn't get in the team under Bilić, Sawyers is dreadful.

So okay. Thanks for signing Ajayi Luke, decent enough in the EFL but a liability in the EPL.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on June 15, 2021, 01:44:11 PM
Roy recommended Terry Burton & Alan Irvine, just saying

Roy also recommend Stale Solbakken to Wolves as well.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on June 15, 2021, 01:44:53 PM
Roy recommended Terry Burton & Alan Irvine, just saying
Not by any means saying Roy is a perfect fit for Football Director, not least because of his age, but I'm struggling to come up with other suitably experienced candidates with some affinity to the club.  As I suggested, Sharner is someone we should sound out. My main point is that Ken badly needs an experienced football person next to him.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: WorcsWBA on June 15, 2021, 02:27:55 PM
Not by any means saying Roy is a perfect fit for Football Director, not least because of his age, but I'm struggling to come up with other suitably experienced candidates with some affinity to the club.  As I suggested, Sharner is someone we should sound out. My main point is that Ken badly needs an experienced football person next to him.
Whoever fills this post (if there's going to be such a post going forward) doesn't need to have any prior affinity to the club, any more than a new manager would, he just needs to be very good at his job.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Dexy on June 15, 2021, 02:32:01 PM
The piece in the Athletic says Dowling was here when Townsend signed  :o . Madeley needs to pull his socks up as well  ;D
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on June 15, 2021, 02:39:06 PM
Whoever fills this post (if there's going to be such a post going forward) doesn't need to have any prior affinity to the club, any more than a new manager would, he just needs to be very good at his job.
The most successful DoF's tend to have a strong affinity to the club, ideally as fans. Bayern Munich have worked on that principle for years and it has served them well. If they have no affinity, they will look at the job more short term and in terms of whats's in it for their CV. 
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: MarkW on June 15, 2021, 02:59:18 PM
The most successful DoF's tend to have a strong affinity to the club, ideally as fans. Bayern Munich have worked on that principle for years and it has served them well. If they have no affinity, they will look at the job more short term and in terms of whats's in it for their CV. 

So we need someone who knows football, who has a link with the club, played to a good standard and maybe even has been a manager/coach so they appreciate the rigours of the job, oh, and they must want to do the role too.

Step forward Michael Appleto-oh, hang on, erm...come back to me.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: seteefeet on June 15, 2021, 03:06:33 PM
The most successful DoF's tend to have a strong affinity to the club, ideally as fans. Bayern Munich have worked on that principle for years and it has served them well. If they have no affinity, they will look at the job more short term and in terms of whats's in it for their CV.
I'm not sure that's true. I don't think Ashworth was a fan of either Albion, nor are the Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool DoF's local lads either, as far as I am aware? I stand to be corrected.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: alex1 on June 15, 2021, 03:28:53 PM
I'm not sure that's true. I don't think Ashworth was a fan of either Albion, nor are the Man Utd, Man City, Liverpool DoF's local lads either, as far as I am aware? I stand to be corrected.
Maybe I'm slightly interchanging DoF's with owners, but its better when you have people at the top of the club who are in it for the long term. They will bring more continuity because they genuinely wish the best for the club.  Many of these short term Mr Fixits are a disaster. We've had a few, that Italian guy and McDoughnut.
Appreciate its very hard finding the right guy, but someone with an attachment to teh club would be a great bonus. Someone like Bomber Brown would be ideal, but sadly there are few ex players who have gained relevant business experience after retiring.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Albion79 on June 15, 2021, 03:45:18 PM
Apparently Forest are poaching Dane Murphy (i think thats his name) from Barnsley to head up their football operations.

He is a young guy, only in his 30’s but is very data focused and modern day thinking and credited with Barnsleys recent successes.

Somebody like that would be ideal for us, good track record, would have an existing database list of coaches and players, could hit the ground running.

However because of how things ended with Dowling where Lai overruling him, the short stint of Terraneo and the sacking of Hammond, i dont think we will be looking at a DOF any time soon.

https://www.barnsleyfc.co.uk/news/2021/april/dane-update/

Having a read of this makes me slightly envious, exploring numerous overseas markets for a start!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 15, 2021, 03:54:43 PM
. Secondly, didn't we get to the FA Cup semi-final with the academy last season?

We did but that was nothing to do with Dowling.

The majority of those players had been courted and coached by the academy set up he royally ****** off and have now ended up at Villa.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on June 15, 2021, 03:58:54 PM
We did but that was nothing to do with Dowling. The majority of those players had been courted and coached by the academy set up he royally ****** off and have now ended up at Villa.

I love it how all signings that work are nothing to do with Dowling and now all academy success is also nothing to do with Dowling. Apparently Richard Stevens heading the academy now (appointed by the bogey man) is going a good job.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on June 15, 2021, 04:05:27 PM
He didn't find Pereira. As for the other 3? What a legacy... Furlong couldn't get in the team under Bilić, Sawyers is dreadful. So okay. Thanks for signing Ajayi Luke, decent enough in the EFL but a liability in the EPL.

Erm Sawyers was lauded as the new Del Piero in the championship (tongue in cheek) and the bargain signing of the season. Fact is Dowling oversaw the rebuild of the squad which got us out of the championship and promoted automatically. Tremendous and main credit to Bilic obviously, but Dowling played an important part. Not to mention that Allardyce credited Dowling with doing as good as job as was possible in this year's January window. So when you try and pretend he got nothing right it doesn't come across as credible.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on June 15, 2021, 04:10:18 PM
I love it how all signings that work are nothing to do with Dowling and now all academy success is also nothing to do with Dowling. Apparently Richard Stevens heading the academy now (appointed by the bogey man) is going a good job.

The success (but likely failures) of Dowling academy changes will not be seen for another five years or more.

The current crop of graduates have all been courted and coached by those who have celebrated his sacking.

You quote Richard Stevens as doing a good job - do you want to share his current successes or what he has done to improve academy football at the Albion?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on June 15, 2021, 04:33:56 PM
The success (but likely failures) of Dowling academy changes will not be seen for another five years or more.

The current crop of graduates have all been courted and coached by those who have celebrated his sacking.

You quote Richard Stevens as doing a good job - do you want to share his current successes or what he has done to improve academy football at the Albion?

I'm just going off Steve Madeley. Richard Stevens was highly regarded at Birmingham and Coventry. Important point is that the academy has a settled staff who aren't all looking to jump ship. It's the one area of the football club left ironically with some football experience. As for what that means over the next five years, who can say. How do you even measure the academy output, by first team players and sales? On that basis it has done okay over the last ten years but not spectacular. But a lot of managers won't give youth team players a chance. Bilic did and brought a few of them on, but that is not the norm.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: paulosull on June 15, 2021, 06:25:11 PM
Signing Zohore on 4 year contract should of seen the end of this bloke, Jenkins leaving exposed him to owner.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: baggie82 on June 15, 2021, 08:00:25 PM
Signing Zohore on 4 year contract should of seen the end of this bloke, Jenkins leaving exposed him to owner.

Is that how you think the club should manage the position of director of football, i.e. sack whoever the DOF is every time we sign a striker for a few million that is a failure? How many DOF do you think we would be hiring and firing on that basis?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: lewisant on June 15, 2021, 08:08:21 PM
Is that how you think the club should manage the position of director of football, i.e. sack whoever the DOF is every time we sign a striker for a few million that is a failure? How many DOF do you think we would be hiring and firing on that basis?

Taking him very literally there. He's just saying that was a terrible terrible decision, one of many and possibly the last he should have been allowed to do.

Pretty certain it does not translate as every time a DOF makes a bad decision they should be fired.

The take away for me is what Paulosull said regarding Jenkins and is probably pretty bang on, and that's no credit to Jenkins.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: OhBilics on June 15, 2021, 08:26:55 PM
Is that how you think the club should manage the position of director of football, i.e. sack whoever the DOF is every time we sign a striker for a few million that is a failure?
I think it could be argued that every time a DoF signs Kenneth Zohore they should be fired!
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Tony Goddens Gloves on June 15, 2021, 08:57:36 PM
Sounds like a lot went on behind the scenes

This should have been the headline the day he got the job.
Image

CHAOS REIGNS

Stephen Hopcroft
@SteveHopcroft
·
10h
Actually I would say in hindsight this is harsh on Luke.
He made decisions that I & a lot of others did not agree with & the consequences are that most of those people left the club.
He had a job to do & he made decisions that I disagreed with however he was the boss at the time
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: paulosull on June 16, 2021, 12:21:01 AM
Sounds like a lot went on behind the scenes

This should have been the headline the day he got the job.
Image

CHAOS REIGNS

Stephen Hopcroft
@SteveHopcroft
·
10h
Actually I would say in hindsight this is harsh on Luke.
He made decisions that I & a lot of others did not agree with & the consequences are that most of those people left the club.
He had a job to do & he made decisions that I disagreed with however he was the boss at the time
Steve Hopcroft at the time went to Premier league club with Seals, his comments come across to me as what took you so long Albion? Dowling should have been working to strengthen first team in areas that a blind man and his dog could see were deficient. After that he could of looked at youth set up, looks from his outburst that Luke was like a bull in a China shop damming indictment from a former respected employ of club.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: hardtobeat on June 16, 2021, 08:11:50 AM
It can also be interpreted as sour grapes from someone with a grudge!
Don't know which side I'm on with that but I would have to ask why wait so long before saying anything and why tweet something like that at around midnight ?.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on June 16, 2021, 08:25:10 AM
I’d say Hopcrofts first post is what he really thought, and his second is probably a bit of professionalism, pragmatism and disappointment in himself that he stooped to the level of airing his feelings on Twitter.

The first reaction speaks far louder than the second.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: seteefeet on June 16, 2021, 09:16:39 AM
I’d say Hopcrofts first post is what he really thought, and his second is probably a bit of professionalism, pragmatism and disappointment in himself that he stooped to the level of airing his feelings on Twitter.

The first reaction speaks far louder than the second.
What did his first post say mate?
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SmethDan on June 16, 2021, 09:26:59 AM
What did his first post say mate?

It was the 'Chaos Reigns' photo and the descriptor that it could have been attached at Luke's appointment (I think).
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: seteefeet on June 16, 2021, 09:36:21 AM
It was the 'Chaos Reigns' photo and the descriptor that it could have been attached at Luke's appointment (I think).
Cheers Dan. Backs up the rumour that he's not well liked. especially with his attitude towards the academy.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: SmethDan on June 16, 2021, 10:19:32 AM
Cheers Dan. Backs up the rumour that he's not well liked. especially with his attitude towards the academy.

It would be ironic (and quite possibly unlikely) if it transpires Luke Dowling was actually the glue that was holding everything together  :-X .
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: seteefeet on June 16, 2021, 10:32:42 AM
It would be ironic (and quite possibly unlikely) if it transpires Luke Dowling was actually the glue that was holding everything together  :-X .
Like rust? You start picking at it and it just turns into a great big hole  :(
As any mechanic will tell you though, it's the only way to fix it long term, anything else is just short term cosmetics.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: PartisanBaggie on June 16, 2021, 11:33:50 AM
I think it could be argued that every time a DoF signs Kenneth Zohore they should be fired!

Jailed, more like.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: Signor_Maresca on June 16, 2021, 02:43:07 PM
Hopcroft should pipe down.  Maybe he isn't whiter than white, especially when it comes to matters of young players leaving for foreign shores only to end up locally 6 months later.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: wodenson46 on June 16, 2021, 06:43:31 PM
Hopcroft should pipe down.  Maybe he isn't whiter than white, especially when it comes to matters of young players leaving for foreign shores only to end up locally 6 months later.

Have no idea and even less proof, but is it possible Hopcroft already had his move pencilled in before the young players were allowed to move???
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: johnny Cash on June 17, 2021, 08:39:13 PM
Hopcroft should pipe down.  Maybe he isn't whiter than white, especially when it comes to matters of young players leaving for foreign shores only to end up locally 6 months later.

Hopcroft was still with us when Barry signed for Villa.

Mark Harrison is the one involved in the Barry saga.
Title: Re: Luke Dowling
Post by: iwastherein68 on June 28, 2021, 06:16:31 AM
Easily manipulated I think best describes Luke. I honestly think he is a decent bloke, did his best but exposed when Jenkins left.
See todays post in the Matheus Pereira thread