Author Topic: Valérien Ismaël leaves WBA  (Read 463973 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

wappingbaggie

  • Youth Baggie

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 381
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #825 on: September 25, 2021, 09:15:38 AM »


Anyway huge for the Manager.  Without tonight's turnaround he'd have been under colossal pressure at Cardiff & Stoke.
[/quote]

What a bizarre claim to make....where do you get your ideas from?   .. I know we are not the best run or stable club in the country but even we don't sack a manager 12 games into a season when in top 5

Oldbury24

  • Youth Baggie

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 859
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #826 on: September 25, 2021, 09:24:06 AM »
I think the equaliser could be a game changer in the season.  In truth we never looked like scoring for 77 mins.  We must assert our authority quicker in games, can't afford to concede the opening goal to inferior teams.

If you look at it from QPR's side, their game plan has worked to perfection for those 77 mins.

I stick my neck out and say we are not creating enough centrally.  Surely Castro has a part to play this season.  0-6 away to a Premier League's reserves is seriously impressive.

Anyway huge for the Manager.  Without tonight's turnaround he'd have been under colossal pressure at Cardiff & Stoke.
[/b]

Only from impatient fans.....he as a four year deal and is competing at top of the division.  He AINT going nowhere soon unless he chooses to.

Dan

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 7356
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #827 on: September 25, 2021, 09:48:15 AM »
He's doing a good job with a fairly limited squad, sometimes our players could look to put their foot on the ball a bit more (particularly when leading) but otherwise he's doing fine. We're second for goals expected, and bottom for expected goals against so statistically we're stacking up right where he'd want us to be, keep us on those trends and we will be promoted.

He has probably the worst attack we've had at this level since who knows when, at least the Megson years and possibly earlier. Not his fault. Does the best he can under those constraints.

boinging_along

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 7115
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #828 on: September 25, 2021, 11:08:58 AM »
He's doing a good job with a fairly limited squad, sometimes our players could look to put their foot on the ball a bit more (particularly when leading) but otherwise he's doing fine. We're second for goals expected, and bottom for expected goals against so statistically we're stacking up right where he'd want us to be, keep us on those trends and we will be promoted.

He has probably the worst attack we've had at this level since who knows when, at least the Megson years and possibly earlier. Not his fault. Does the best he can under those constraints.

If our attack is so bad why are the tactics "hoof it forward and let the attackers sort it out"?

I'd suggest Diangana, Robbo, Grant, Phillips aren't that bad and a couple of those would get into most teams in this division. 

When other teams just launch it forward as well we suffer from the tactics not really being a good fit for the qualities our attack.

GREGMT

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1231
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #829 on: September 25, 2021, 12:01:38 PM »

Anyway huge for the Manager.  Without tonight's turnaround he'd have been under colossal pressure at Cardiff & Stoke.


What a bizarre claim to make....where do you get your ideas from?   .. I know we are not the best run or stable club in the country but even we don't sack a manager 12 games into a season when in top 5

We were headed for a certain 0-1 loss, until a terrible goalkeeping error that make Johnstone's look minor in comparison.  We never looked like scoring. 

I'm not happy with a couple of things - we don't have a natural goalscorer anywhere in the team / the centre midfield doesn't create anywhere near enough goal scoring chances.

The knives were out for Ismael all across the "in play chat" (so not just me BTW).

KN22

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3003
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #830 on: September 25, 2021, 12:05:53 PM »
The in play chat is, in my humble view, the very worst place to gauge a situation. People’s views are instant and not, normally, considered.

boinging_along

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 7115
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #831 on: September 25, 2021, 12:25:22 PM »
The in play chat is, in my humble view, the very worst place to gauge a situation. People’s views are instant and not, normally, considered.

It's a commentary about what happens at the time.  In some ways it's more honest.  It would be easy to come away from yesterday's game and the emotion of the result and late goal and be all "another win, we're back top, amazing" but for most of that match we weren't very good and failed to create much.

CL3MO

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 2939
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #832 on: September 25, 2021, 12:55:35 PM »
I thought it was telling - after reading his post-match comments, clearly irked by the fans voicing their displeasure at taking Grady off - that he didn’t appear to walk around with the players and clap the fans, like he usually does.

Although I didn’t boo, I was extremely unhappy with that change - I’ve been critical of Grady this year and even though his final delivery or pass was woeful, he looked our biggest threat out of the front three. Yet, on the outcome of the game, the manager got it right (with a little bit of help from Dieng  ;D).

SirTonyM

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1033
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #833 on: September 25, 2021, 01:15:56 PM »
5 wins and 4 draws in 9 games and top. If I was the manager of a new team, trying to implement a new style, with not a lot of investment and unbeaten and was getting pelters I’d be unhappy too. Oh and he hardly took over a team high on confidence from the end of last season....
So much to say about the modern era of football, entitlement and “myths” of how football should be played etc.
I rate Diangana and he’s playing better. On the flip side when was the last time he scored or even set up a goal?
The twitter thread of Albion fans on line was embarrassing and funny. 25 mins left Grants horrendous, terrible, the worst player we have had at Albion”. At full time “always knew he’d come good, class finisher, only finisher we have got” :)

Dan

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 7356
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #834 on: September 25, 2021, 01:23:39 PM »
If our attack is so bad why are the tactics "hoof it forward and let the attackers sort it out"?

I'd suggest Diangana, Robbo, Grant, Phillips aren't that bad and a couple of those would get into most teams in this division. 

When other teams just launch it forward as well we suffer from the tactics not really being a good fit for the qualities our attack.

The stats suggest it works, second highest expected goals in the league.

I didn't say the attack was bad just that compared to our previous attacks it is certainly lacking a lot and that's not Ismael's fault. Previously at least 03/04 onwards we've always had good creators at that level, be that Koumas, Gera, Brunt, Dorrans, Pereira.... We don't have anyone in that mould now and neither do we have a natural 20 goal a season striker in the vain of a Kamara, Phillips or Gayle. People should perhaps temper their expectations in light of that.

Ismael has been dealt the toughest hand a manager has been dealt for us since Megson. He's doing a very solid job so far. Can't really see how people expect him to be doing much better.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2021, 01:25:26 PM by Dan »

WorcsWBA

  • Site Donator
  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 5486
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #835 on: September 25, 2021, 01:33:11 PM »
For all those thinking we're not creating enough, worrying about our fragile defence, believing Valerien doesn't know what he's doing and/or generally feeling that all involved are rubbish, here are some shot stats for and against from our league games this season:

OpponentsShots ForShots For
On Target
Shots AgainstShots Against
On Target
Bournemouth (A)15574
Luton (H)186115
Sheff Utd (H)12451
Blackburn (A)231172
Peterborough (A)19351
Millwall (H)112134
Derby (H)25940
Preston (A)12382
QPR (H)18574
Totals153486723
Average per game175.37.42.5

Source: www.whoscored.com

Valerien has stated that he wants to see our shot accuracy improve, so we'll see how that pans out in the coming weeks.

Perhaps things might not seem quite so awful now, and those who are readily booing at the games might consider being more patient?
« Last Edit: September 25, 2021, 01:39:16 PM by WorcsWBA »

baggie82

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 4122
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #836 on: September 25, 2021, 01:56:56 PM »
Weren't the fans booing the decision to sub Grady rather than anything else?

alex1

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 5941
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #837 on: September 25, 2021, 01:58:43 PM »
The in play chat is, in my humble view, the very worst place to gauge a situation. People’s views are instant and not, normally, considered.
Completly agree. Too many fans judge a performance, and players, solely on the current scoreline and nothing else.  That's how you get 180 degree changes in opinion over the timespan of a few minutes. In any match luck is a factor, but luck tends to even itself over a longer timescale, like a season.
Einstein: A definition of insanity- someone who takes the same action time after time, even though previously it's always ended in failure

CL3MO

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 2939
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #838 on: September 25, 2021, 02:14:36 PM »
Weren't the fans booing the decision to sub Grady rather than anything else?

100%, I have no doubt about that. Yet, I'm sure the manager saw it as a reflection on his judgement and decisions; hence his comments in the after-match presser.

boinging_along

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 7115
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #839 on: September 25, 2021, 02:16:47 PM »
Completly agree. Too many fans judge a performance, and players, solely on the current scoreline and nothing else.  That's how you get 180 degree changes in opinion over the timespan of a few minutes. In any match luck is a factor, but luck tends to even itself over a longer timescale, like a season.

I'm sure when fans are at the ground they don't discuss the match or comment on what they're seeing on the pitch.

Hunnington Baggie

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3851
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #840 on: September 25, 2021, 02:28:07 PM »
I'm sure when fans are at the ground they don't discuss the match or comment on what they're seeing on the pitch.
but much like any other public space, it's usually filled by people who have no idea  what they're talking about. It's like a room of antivaxxers sometimes construing real event to suit their narrative.

you just have to remember that fans are morons and have no idea how football works, then you can syphon out the actually useful info from the sea of (usually negative but sometimes happy clapper) dross.

WorcsWBA

  • Site Donator
  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 5486
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #841 on: September 25, 2021, 02:56:40 PM »
Weren't the fans booing the decision to sub Grady rather than anything else?
There were also boos at half-time.

baggie82

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 4122
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #842 on: September 25, 2021, 05:21:24 PM »
He was definitely upset with the fans at the final whistle, straight down the tunnel without acknowledging the crowd. Probably been building since the boos at the end of the Derby game. He's probably right to get the huff - given we are unbeaten and second. Some of the crowd are too inpatient and too quick to turn.

KYA

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 5749
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #843 on: September 25, 2021, 05:42:45 PM »
I don't think Albion fans are alone in being too quick to criticise I think it's a reflection of society where people are too quick to moan and pass blame , everything is blown out of proportion.
The wife has just told me two women were fighting at a petrol forecourt brainless comes to mind.

PartisanBaggie

  • Youth Baggie

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 767
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #844 on: September 25, 2021, 06:36:53 PM »
I’m not necessarily condoning the boos but given the amount of money it costs football fans to follow their club, I do understand why they’d feel frustrated if the football being served up is unacceptable.

Hunnington Baggie

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3851
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #845 on: September 25, 2021, 06:46:49 PM »
I’m not necessarily condoning the boos but given the amount of money it costs football fans to follow their club, I do understand why they’d feel frustrated if the football being served up is unacceptable.
which is fine, so long as they're prepared to accept the look and sound like a petty child while doing it.

baggie82

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 4122
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #846 on: September 25, 2021, 06:54:50 PM »
Spot on Hunnington, the minority who boo are entitled to do so and the rest of us are entitled to criticise them for it.  Be interesting to see if the press ask Valérien about his reaction at the final whistle.

PartisanBaggie

  • Youth Baggie

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 767
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #847 on: September 25, 2021, 06:59:34 PM »
which is fine, so long as they're prepared to accept the look and sound like a petty child while doing it.

I doubt they care what they may be perceived as. They’re annoyed aren’t they!

WorcsWBA

  • Site Donator
  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 5486
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #848 on: September 25, 2021, 07:05:05 PM »
I’m not necessarily condoning the boos but given the amount of money it costs football fans to follow their club, I do understand why they’d feel frustrated if the football being served up is unacceptable.
It rather comes down to what they regard as being unacceptable then and how reasonable it is for them to feel that way?

Going back to the start of the season, remember that Valerien was talking about wanting the fans and players to combine to make The Hawthorns a fortress and an unpleasant place for opponents to play at. I'm sure he didn't have in mind the team being booed off at half-time and him being booed when making substitutions. It's also pretty likely that he's not experienced it before, as I very much doubt it happened at either LASK or Barnsley. That might explain to some extent why he was clearly miffed about the booing, despite us winning in the end. That we were unbeaten in our first 8 games prior to this one might also have been in his mind.

baggie82

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 4122
Re: Valérien Ismaël - Head Coach
« Reply #849 on: September 25, 2021, 07:18:01 PM »
It rather comes down to what they regard as being unacceptable then and how reasonable it is for them to feel that way?

Going back to the start of the season, remember that Valerien was talking about wanting the fans and players to combine to make The Hawthorns a fortress and an unpleasant place for opponents to play at. I'm sure he didn't have in mind the team being booed off at half-time and him being booed when making substitutions. It's also pretty likely that he's not experienced it before, as I very much doubt it happened at either LASK or Barnsley. That might explain to some extent why he was clearly miffed about the booing, despite us winning in the end. That we were unbeaten in our first 8 games prior to this one might also have been in his mind.

You summarise the position well. I think VI was right to be annoyed and the fans who booed let themselves down.