[LiamTheBaggie]

The mega thread to discuss our relegation.

What let us down?

What lessons can be learned?

Where do we go from here?

[gazberg]

What let us down?

The board and owner sitting on their hands instead of sacking Bilic pre-season when they already knew they couldn't fully work with him therefore couldn't fully back him.

What lessons can be learnt?

Many but not while these clowns are running the show

Where do we go from here?

Hopefully confirmation of a manager for next season early doors be it Sam or someone else and get rid of Dowling.

[boingboing1989]

Summer transfer window let us down, look at the difference just 3 fairly average players made to this team in january and we couldn't even get one through the door in the summer. Yokuslu in in the summer, a proper striker even someone like Diagne and I reckon we'd of just about stayed up. Fingers need to be pointed at Dowling, even if it was all Bilic's doing, he should be stronger to stand up and say no, this is what we need.

Massive, massive summer window for us now. Even bigger than we went down last time, as apart from MP and SJ we have no saleable assets to even bring in the funds needed for a monumental rebuild.

[Droitwich Baggie]

Common denominator here is "Get shot of Dowling". He is out of his depth and floundering around.

[WBASPE77]

The same mistakes will be made this is just one big circle .

We were pretty much down before we kicked a ball. Shocking transfers made during the summer. The Hegazi departure was strange, and the club made a right balls up of sacking Billic.

Having the likes of Livermore , Sawyers and Robsons Kanu costs us.big time.

We can hope we make millions from Johnstone and Perrira . Get rid of some of the deadwood . Hope we make some decent signings. I feel given the state of a lot Championship teams were in a much better position than those.

[paulosull]

Dowling cost us any Hope of staying up with Bilic and Allardyce having share of blame. Owner also needs to look at himself in mirror if he can reach.
Club needs a good clear out with owners, Dowling, Allardyce and a good few of our first team squad gone.

[baggie82]

Common denominator here is "Get shot of Dowling". He is out of his depth and floundering around.

Don’t agree with you. Dowling is an easy scapegoat for a lack of investment.

[gazberg]

Don’t agree with you. Dowling is an easy scapegoat for a lack of investment.

Theres a lack of investment but Dowlings signings have been poor.

[baggie82]

Dowling cost us any Hope of staying up with Bilic and Allardyce having share of blame. Owner also needs to look at himself in mirror if he can reach.
Club needs a good clear out with owners, Dowling, Allardyce and a good few of our first team squad gone.

So you want the manager gone, the technical director gone, and the players shown the door. Do you seriously think that is a recipe for success this summer?

[Groovephil]

Nothing to learn from this year that club don’t already know.

Let’s hope the rumours of a few serious buyers can strike a deal with Lai and get that sorted ASAP otherwise it’ll be a champ campaign with minimal spending and loans again.

For the record I’d keep Sam as well, my guess he’ll want to see how serous the club are first.

[paulosull]

Yep why reward failure, team will be shadow of the one that played in prem. Loan players will return to parent clubs and our two best players will be sold. You looking forward to Sawyers and Livermore in midfield because I'm not.
Dowling will once again f up in transfer market and Allardyce’s day has long since past.

[LiamTheBaggie]

Don’t agree with you. Dowling is an easy scapegoat for a lack of investment.

You can quote lack of investment but we had the best part of £30 million sitting on the bench the last few months.

Whatever money we had in the summer we spunked up the wall.

[Baggies]

The summer was the main thing that let us down. The failure to get ourselves a defensive midfielder and a centre forward being the most glaring errors, while the summer long aim of bringing back the loanees - loanees who had been part of the flawed side that had limped over the line the season before - was also a strange endeavour. The only new additions we made all flopped, bar an okay showing from Connor Gallagher who never really recovered from Bilic’s sacking and the subsequent change of style.

Lessons that can be learnt - that Luke Dowling isn’t dynamic enough to establish us in the premier league, struggle to make a case fo him really. We need to come up wit( a better strategy but I don’t think we have the right people to implement one at the club.

As for where we go from here, all of the noises suggest the club want to keep Allardyce and many fans and journalists covering the club seem to agree that’s a great move. The fact he has 4 wins in 23 games doesn’t seem to be hurting his reputation, neither does the fact that if we don’t beat Liverpool next time out, his win percentage POST the January transfer window (so with the likes of Yokuslu, AMN, Diagne in the side) will still see him drop below Alan Irvine’s 22%.

I would prefer we look at a more attacking manager, ideally somebody from Germany who for me are currently producing the best club managers but I’m not sure if work permit rules will allow it. I fully expect Allardyce will be here so he can test my theory further that managers who keep clubs in a division aren’t necessarily the best ones to get them out.

[gazberg]

"John Percy
@JPercyTelegraph

Relegation for #wba was sadly inevitable with that budget of around £20m on transfer fees after promotion. Huge impact on finances from Covid but it’s now time for new ownership & some ambition/fresh ideas. Allardyce staying would be a good start"

[baggiejohn]

"John Percy
@JPercyTelegraph

Relegation for #wba was sadly inevitable with that budget of around £20m on transfer fees after promotion. Huge impact on finances from Covid but it’s now time for new ownership & some ambition/fresh ideas. Allardyce staying would be a good start"

It does look as though he knows something

[gazberg]

I hope there is a new owner. Don't need to be rich but just needs to care more than Lai which should not be hard.

[alex1]

I think we need another Dan Ashworth with a long term strategy for the club, but how you find him I don't know. A good Sporting Director, DOF, call him what you will, should establish a proper scouting network, here and in Europe, and get all the staff singing from the same hymn sheet. Good managerial appointments should be a result of having the right Sporting Director. I don't see Allardyce fitting into that, but as a short term panic measure, I expect he'll be kept on.   

[PartisanBaggie]

It does look as though he knows something

Don’t read too much into John Percy’s tweet. He isn’t saying anything we don’t already know.

As for the “new ownership and some fresh ideas/ambition” part, I’d previously heard another party was very interested in buying the Albion but would only submit an offer once our relegation/survival was confirmed. The major sticking point the sale hinged on was what league we’d be playing in.

[LiamTheBaggie]

I hope there is a new owner. Don't need to be rich but just needs to care more than Lai which should not be hard.

Struggle to see much chance of that unless Lai is prepared to take a massive, massive loss. He’d get nowhere near £100m for us now.

[gazberg]

Struggle to see much chance of that unless Lai is prepared to take a massive, massive loss. He’d get nowhere near £100m for us now.

I know mate and it makes me sad. Lai is an absolute mug when it comes to football. Hopefully the chinese government tell him to sell up ASAP.

[PartisanBaggie]

I think we need another Dan Ashworth with a long term strategy for the club, but how you find him I don't know. A good Sporting Director, DOF, call him what you will, should establish a proper scouting network, here and in Europe, and get all the staff singing from the same hymn sheet. Good managerial appointments should be a result of having the right Sporting Director. I don't see Allardyce fitting into that, but as a short term panic measure, I expect he'll be kept on.   

It has to start from the top down Al. An interested, hands-on owner is needed because the DoF can’t do all the above without the direction of a much more involved owner.

[wba_1996]

Lack of ambition, lack of direction, lack of long-term planning and poor recruitment. I knew we’d be relegated this season and had accepted it before a ball was kicked, this club has been far too predictable for years. If we get promoted next season we’ll be straight back down the following season, you need to invest minimum £80m upon promotion nowadays.

Dowling, Ivanovic, Peltier, Kipre, Button, Snodgrass, Lonergan, the fact that a section of our fanbase actively want us to be a Championship club, the fact we’re the only club in the country who’d rather decrease the stadium capacity than increase it. From top to bottom we don’t behave like a Premier League club and it’s pretty embarrassing considering that we’re easily one of the 20 biggest and most successful clubs in the country.

[PartisanBaggie]

Lack of ambition, lack of direction, lack of long-term planning and poor recruitment. I knew we’d be relegated this season and had accepted it before a ball was kicked, this club has been far too predictable for years. If we get promoted next season we’ll be straight back down the following season, you need to invest minimum £80m upon promotion nowadays.

Dowling, Ivanovic, Peltier, Kipre, Button, Snodgrass, Lonergan, the fact that a section of our fanbase actively want us to be a Championship club, the fact we’re the only club in the country who’d rather decrease the stadium capacity than increase it. From top to bottom we don’t behave like a Premier League club and it’s pretty embarrassing considering that we’re easily one of the 20 biggest and most successful clubs in the country.

You’re right in what you say.

A nasty smell from the Jeremy Peace days and his conjuring of fans into the ‘little old Albion’ narrative. Pathetic really.

[Droitwich Baggie]

Dowling and Lai are traitors to the Albion supporters.

[LiamTheBaggie]

There have been some good points raised in this thread and many I agree with.

I still cannot fathom how Bilic and Dowling thought it was acceptable to go into a season in this division with a central midfield pairing of Sawyers and Livermore. A dereliction of duty to neglect such a fundamental area of the pitch. The warning signs had been there the season before and it almost feels like an arrogance that we did not address it.

The majority of our problems stem from that midfield base.

[skyclad99]

You can quote lack of investment but we had the best part of £30 million sitting on the bench the last few months.

Whatever money we had in the summer we spunked up the wall.

You could say we invested wisely for next season Liam😁

[baggie38]

What let us down?

Billic, Dowling, Ken, Lai,

I'm not going to give big sam to much stick because he came in and had pennies to play with. The players we recommended to bring in have been improvements. The problem with alot of loans is clubs won't release them until closer to the end of the window. Those 4 weeks in January and how late they joined had a say in being costly potentially. If we start at the beginning the budget wasn't enough plain and simple you can't go into a division where teams throw money around for fun then join the party and throw wet tissue paper. Billic was to insistent on Krovinovic coming back and chasing Grant oh and the small matter of being persistent in our pursuit of Ivanovic. The mistakes were made last summer and our fate was sealed then. What do we learn from this season? Nothing new. The club lacks ambition and that won't change with the current board or ownership. We will go down lose players and have to replace them no doubt some dross will come in no doubt we will bring in some decent loans. The owner doesn't care and won't care until he is out of here and washed his hands of the club. What we need to do now is look forward immediately and plan. We need an answer from Sam ASAP this week ideally we can't afford to delay or wait on him to give us an answer. This summer is huge for the future of our club. Do we challenge next season or become a average second tier club? One things for sure Dowling is out of his depth and needs to go. Billic paid with his Job in November dowling needs to do one now aswell.

[Dexy]

1 .Don't go up with owners looking to sell
2. Don't go up while falling out behind the scenes
3. Don't sign three left sided players in one window blowing your budget.
4. Don't sign one left sided forward from lower league and try to turn him into a lone forward.
5. Act on clear failing weak areas from the season before ( midfield ) .
Loads more , utter joke of a season.

[boinging_along]

Hiring a manager that is known for a defensive approach with a team that can't defend.

[baggie38]

Hiring a manager that is known for a defensive approach with a team that can't defend.

Rubbish he improved us. If you look at the amount of points we picked up the last 10 games or so it would be enough for us to stay up. We didn't shift Billic out the door quick enough and bring him in quick enough was the issue.

[California Dreaming]

Rubbish he improved us. If you look at the amount of points we picked up the last 10 games or so it would be enough for us to stay up. We didn't shift Billic out the door quick enough and bring him in quick enough was the issue.

Conveniently forgetting that he made us worse before we saw any improvement. The points tally since he arrived would not have kept us up, he failed in his stated task, alienated some players who we will need next season and played some bizarre tactics in games he himself pronounced as ‘must win’. He is not totally to blame, but is certainly not blameless.

[zippyandbungle]

Conveniently forgetting that he made us worse before we saw any improvement. The points tally since he arrived would not have kept us up, he failed in his stated task, alienated some players who we will need next season and played some bizarre tactics in games he himself pronounced as ‘must win’. He is not totally to blame, but is certainly not blameless.

That last sentence is key
I can’t stand allardyce, but whilst there have been some obvious improvements ... there have also been mistakes from him that seem too easily forgotten.
Posters revel in “his” 5-2 demolition of Chelsea....but our defeat at Everton was all about Gibbs being sent off .
In the Chelsea match he also had his “inspired” tactical change almost forced upon him.

[Dexy]

https://theathletic.com/2575351/?amp#click=https://t.co/RT93b6K8it
I'll put this up for now due to being a major topic.
Steve Madeleys take on it .

[Baltic]

Key Reason

-  Totally insufficient budget. Resp Lai

Contributory Reasons

-  In-balanced squad. Resp Dowling/Bilic
-  Poor contribution from signings. Grant, Diangana, Ivanovic. Resp Dowling/Bilic
-  Lack of fitness. Resp Bilic
-  Failure to get deserved points and momentum early on. Resp REF/VAR, Gibbs (Everton), SJ (Spurs/Chelsea) MP (3 game ban)
-  Going backwards before we went forwards. Resp Allardyce

[NJS]

Guochan Lai never promised to shell out lots of money and Leader Xi 's about turn as regards investment would have prevented him anyway.  I don't know whether there will be much pressure to dispose of his risky asset; he might just as easily decide to let its value slowly and quietly decrease.

Dowling's tenure of the DoF position has been a disaster (save for MP).  What we need is a new DoF but as such an appointment is made by the board, I don't know how such a stand-off body could identify one.  Pehaps an old director (Jenkins) will be recalled.

The problem starts at the top but is Allardyce's style too ponderous and unsuited to today's refereeing style which prohibits the more robust forms of defence prevalent when he was in his pomp?

In my view, of his acquisitions, Yokuslu has been a top man, Diagne and Snodgrass old pros who've been OK but haven't really moved the dial. AMN has been good in parts.   I don't know whether Big Sam's conservative mindset is tuned to developing and bringing on young players so that would undermine the reason for having an academy.

Is SA prepared to stay on with the budget we can provide?  Will he just say that he did not get the 'support' he required and walk away?  We need to know quickly.

[seteefeet]

Key Reason

-  Totally insufficient budget. Resp Lai

Contributory Reasons

-  In-balanced squad. Resp Dowling/Bilic
-  Poor contribution from signings. Grant, Diangana, Ivanovic. Resp Dowling/Bilic
-  Lack of fitness. Resp Bilic
-  Failure to get deserved points and momentum early on. Resp REF/VAR, Gibbs (Everton), SJ (Spurs/Chelsea) MP (3 game ban)
-  Going backwards before we went forwards. Resp Allardyce

Nicely summed up mate, saved me some ink! Just missed one factor, and for me, the main one, and that is the Premier League itself.

We could get all the other things right and still fail, simply because we have less money than everyone else and the fault for that lies firmly at the door of the Premier League and the fact that it has allowed, nay encouraged, it to become such a corrupt, unfair, biased, uneven "competition".

We would pretty much have to put ourselves on the brink of extinction to truly compete in that god forsaken league.
GOOD RIDDANCE
Roll on August.

[skyclad99]

Conveniently forgetting that he made us worse before we saw any improvement. The points tally since he arrived would not have kept us up, he failed in his stated task, alienated some players who we will need next season and played some bizarre tactics in games he himself pronounced as ‘must win’. He is not totally to blame, but is certainly not blameless.

Nothing convenient about it Cali. When he arrived he obviously thought the players were OK. It took several games and numerous formation/team changes for him to realise that on the whole we were total rubbish, and that some keys areas [Livermore/Sawyers] were woefully bad. Once the window was open his task was to redress the balance with little more than a jar of buttons - a task he did pretty well in my opinion.
The fact that we got worse is likely down to BS asking players to play to  a different style, something they found difficult to adjust to because they are not that good in the first place.
Lets face it, we have had a car crash of a season, and until the circus that owns us are gone, this is going to continue for the forseeable, regardless who is in the hot seats.
The high price paid by Lai [set by the previous chap] means that we are virtually unbuyable - Lai will have to stomach a loss of something like 50% if he wanted to sell, and I cannot see him doing that. Likewise, we will need some reasonable investment if we are going to get back up next season, and I cannot see him doing that either.
I have to laugh at times when posters come on saying 'we need to get rid and replace, we need to buy a striker, or DM, or anyone else.... with what?

[gazberg]

On a smaller level of self-destructive behaviour internally, whoever believed that there would be transfer bargains galore due to covid and remaining inactive until we realised it wasn't happening setting us even further back should be fired.

[PartisanBaggie]

Nothing convenient about it Cali. When he arrived he obviously thought the players were OK. It took several games and numerous formation/team changes for him to realise that on the whole we were total rubbish, and that some keys areas [Livermore/Sawyers] were woefully bad. Once the window was open his task was to redress the balance with little more than a jar of buttons - a task he did pretty well in my opinion.
The fact that we got worse is likely down to BS asking players to play to  a different style, something they found difficult to adjust to because they are not that good in the first place.
Lets face it, we have had a car crash of a season, and until the circus that owns us are gone, this is going to continue for the forseeable, regardless who is in the hot seats.
The high price paid by Lai [set by the previous chap] means that we are virtually unbuyable - Lai will have to stomach a loss of something like 50% if he wanted to sell, and I cannot see him doing that. Likewise, we will need some reasonable investment if we are going to get back up next season, and I cannot see him doing that either.
I have to laugh at times when posters come on saying 'we need to get rid and replace, we need to buy a striker, or DM, or anyone else.... with what?

What you’re saying is right and I agree with you.

This was spoken about at length a year ago and the bottom line is very simple:

For Lai to sell WBA and recoup as much money as he can, we have to be playing in the Premier League. I can’t personally see him being able to sell our club whilst we’re in the Championship, not for the sort of money he’s asking for anyhow. Any interested party right now will be saying to Lai “we’re prepared to offer you (for example) £50million for West Bromwich Albion because you’re in the second tier of English football and that’s the market valuation given the size of the club, assets, etc.”

Do you think Lai is going to digest a £100+million loss on an investment made only 5 years ago?

We’re right back where we were at the end of the 17/18 season. Only, we’re more used to the situation.

[PartisanBaggie]

On a smaller level of self-destructive behaviour internally, whoever believed that there would be transfer bargains galore due to covid and remaining inactive until we realised it wasn't happening setting us even further back should be fired.

I wonder who that could be Gaz...🤔

[gazberg]

I wonder who that could be Gaz...🤔

I think we have an idea but can't say for sure.

[PartisanBaggie]

I think we have an idea but can't say for sure.

It’s not going to be the owner, chairman or CEO. It’ll be whoever’s in charge of transfer dealings at the club.

I distinctly remember Mark Jenkins’ parting statement in the Express & Dingle just under 12 months ago saying it’ll be much, much harder to do transfer dealing because of COVID-19.

[baggiejohn]

It’s not going to be the owner, chairman or CEO. It’ll be whoever’s in charge of transfer dealings at the club.

I distinctly remember Mark Jenkins’ parting statement in the Express & Dingle just under 12 months ago saying it’ll be much, much harder to do transfer dealing because of COVID-19.

He implied that transfer fees would be lower because clubs would want to off-load players.
Bye & large he was (& still is) correct, as demonstrated in the January window, it's just that we focused on players instead of value for money in the summer.

You can put the blame on Dowling if you want, but there's two tiers above him, & one of them is supposed to be looking after the shareholders interests

Here's the full statement

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/08/06/exclusive-mark-jenkins-on-albions-finances-post-covid-19/

[Adder]

Last summer there was a mis-calculation of certain areas of the squad.
Bilic's major downfall was expecting our midfield to be good enough in the prem. At times we were overrun in the Championship. Bilic was quoted a few times saying that 'some of our players will be better suited to the premier league'. He didn't give names but I can't help suspecting that he meant the likes of Sawyers Pereira and Diangana. Clearly only Pereira has proved himself this year.

It's stating the obvious to say we've looked more at home at prem level since the January additions.

[baggie82]

Very good article in the athletic today by Steve Madeley setting out in further detail what has gone on this season. The pertinent point is that our budget was just £20m with anything else to be staggered over the next few years and that left us with no realistic chance of being able to compete. The writing was on the wall before a ball was kicked:

"The Athletic has learned that even during pre-season senior Albion figures, chatting to others in football, raised serious doubts about their ability to compete in the top flight with the money available."

The club should have been more honest and admitted we were broke and doing a Norwich.

[gazberg]

The club should have been more honest and admitted we were broke and doing a Norwich.

100000% this. Myself and others on here suggested the very same thing before a ball was kicked.

[Albionic]

100000% this. Myself and others on here suggested the very same thing before a ball was kicked.

Yep, but someone would have had to tell the owner, which was a career limiting move !!

[gazberg]

Yep, but someone would have had to tell the owner, which was a career limiting move !!

Great deal of truth in that!

[BaggieBoy04]

Well were to blaim we can blaim Bilic but as I don't want to cause an arguement then I won't say anything but he wasn't perfect.
Sam needed to do what we had done last ten games eairler
Biggest Problem Our board
The quicker these morons leave the better. Were to start
You want to sell a club you got royally ripped off by JP under him we had been In the Prem for 7 years. The same season as our relegation these guys come in sack Pulls after a loss to Chelsea as opposed to say Huddersfield. Bring in a circus act after then Big Dave comes in tries to rescue a sinking ship alternatively fails. They then give him the Job and yes Albion Fans love Big Dave and happily backed him but he was inexperienced anyway Darren has in the play offs the board sack him in a disgusting way. We then get Jimmy Shan for rest of season miss out on Promotion had we had an actual new manager we could have gone up. Anyway Slav comes in amazing how did we get him. He starts of wonderful Covid happens then something happens behind the scenes maybe. Then Slav gets us up in 1 year the board give him 2 clearly showing they want the final year of Parachute payments. Anyway we come up with a criminally low budget. The board spunk most of it on Diangana for the future Slav wanted him back on loan. Then we know the rest. Moral is Lai wanted to sell well put money in to actually secure the status of the club maybe get them pushing for Mid Table keep viable assests invest in Youth to increase the Value then sell.

But since JP washed his hands of us and sold at an overinflated price we have become unstable unable to compete so ultimately JP has a blaim to ultimately now Keep Big Sam he could get us up if we keep MP it won't be pretty but I would much rather go up him then keep us up so these owners can get out of the club or hopefully this 50+1 rule we signed the petition for gets acted on and we get a say. Until either happens well Albion will just keep having our proud name dragged through the mud

[saml30]

Theres a lack of investment but Dowlings signings have been poor.

But go back and see how happy people were with the Grant and Grady signings for instance.

[Dexy]

But go back and see how happy people were with the Grant and Grady signings for instance.

Grady yes , less so Grant especially when it was clear he'd be used as a lone forward .

[gazberg]

But go back and see how happy people were with the Grant and Grady signings for instance.

None of us knew Grady was 'broke' I think he is be it physical or mental (just my opinion of course) Grants record looked ok but he got that record playing a completely different way Bilic thought he could mould him into.

[Baggies]

Very good article in the athletic today by Steve Madeley setting out in further detail what has gone on this season. The pertinent point is that our budget was just £20m with anything else to be staggered over the next few years and that left us with no realistic chance of being able to compete. The writing was on the wall before a ball was kicked:

"The Athletic has learned that even during pre-season senior Albion figures, chatting to others in football, raised serious doubts about their ability to compete in the top flight with the money available."

The club should have been more honest and admitted we were broke and doing a Norwich.

I feel like Norwich had a coherent strategy with a lot more forward planning. They were relegated and were in a stronger position than when they went up.

Sadly I don't think we can say that about us. Very few youngsters breaking through who have been battle hardened in the brief prem stay like Norwich had/have, huge gaps in our squad once all the loanees go back and much like Fulham in 2019, our 2 most expensive signings the summer before have serious question marks over their futures less than a year after signing.

Somebody at the club will eventually need to work out a coherent strategy and stick to it if we are going to have any chance of a prolonged stay in the top flight - that's the only way Lai gets his fanciful £200m valuation met.

[tex]

get a grip, we failed to stay in the prem and have to start again. Just because we failed does not mean you give up or claim that its better to be good at being second class. We had eight years in the EPL, the waste was that we did not build a foundation other than JP's new place in the channel islands. The new owner is desperate to get out but we still will be a favourite to return next year. The key will be to build a squad that can get out of the Championship but does not have to be over run with loans next season.

[BigFrank20]

We might be heading towards being a biggish fish in a pond full of smaller fish where surely we need to grow into a nice big, sustainable and sturdy big fish before jumping back into the big fish pond?
Love an analogy me
COYB

[Standaman]

The seeds of this relegation were sown many years ago with a series of short term fixes to keep us in the Premier League each failed quick fix has weakened the club. Each quick fix has a player contract legacy many of which are still lingering draining the club of resources.

We might complain about how we managed this season and there have been many mistakes but there was a pathway to survival. We had to get everything right and plainly we did not. Allardyce's appointment is another failed quick fix and even if it is rescued by a rapid return it is quite likely that the ground is being prepared for the next aging squad to stumble to the next relegation.

Norwich had a deeper reset and took the time to implement a plan built around youth development and hiring players with development potential. They are on their 2nd iteration of the promotion/relegation I am far from sure they will survive but at least the structures are in place and they are not plunging into a desperate gamble just to stay in the division.

 

[PartisanBaggie]

Norwich had a deeper reset and took the time to implement a plan built around youth development and hiring players with development potential. They are on their 2nd iteration of the promotion/relegation I am far from sure they will survive but at least the structures are in place and they are not plunging into a desperate gamble just to stay in the division.

It’s all very well using Norwich as an example, but the Canaries have been owned by Michael Wynn-Jones and Delia Smith for the past 25 years.

Totally different situation to our ownership.

[WBA]

100000% this. Myself and others on here suggested the very same thing before a ball was kicked.

Actions speak louder than words.  The actions said it all really with Diangana offering a bit of a passifying divergence but kind of ending up as a sacrificial lamb on the altar of failure.

[gazberg]

Actions speak louder than words.  The actions said it all really with Diangana offering a bit of a passifying divergence but kind of ending up as a sacrificial lamb on the altar of failure.

I like the cut of your jib

[MarkW]

The seeds of this relegation were sown many years ago with a series of short term fixes to keep us in the Premier League each failed quick fix has weakened the club. Each quick fix has a player contract legacy many of which are still lingering draining the club of resources.

We might complain about how we managed this season and there have been many mistakes but there was a pathway to survival. We had to get everything right and plainly we did not. Allardyce's appointment is another failed quick fix and even if it is rescued by a rapid return it is quite likely that the ground is being prepared for the next aging squad to stumble to the next relegation.

Norwich had a deeper reset and took the time to implement a plan built around youth development and hiring players with development potential. They are on their 2nd iteration of the promotion/relegation I am far from sure they will survive but at least the structures are in place and they are not plunging into a desperate gamble just to stay in the division.

 

It's like owning a house. You want to improve the house itself, maybe you fit new doors and windows to reduce the draft, maybe a new roof to stop any leaks, a bit of paint to make it more appealing.

But you also have to attend to the foundations. Are cracks starting to appear because the foundations are faulty?

In those final Pulis seasons, we tried sprucing up the house, but at the expense of the foundations we had spent an age tending to, so that we could build our house that fitted into the nice neighborhood.

Now we have an owner who wants to sell up, but won't fix the broken foundations, so he's painted the front door and hired a gardener to make the front garden look nice to those who pass by, but go look a little closer and you realise the only way to get back to where we were is to spend some time fixing the core problems

[Dexy]

Read another Madeley article this morning on Bilic's demand to sign Grant , absolute madness at this level .
I'd have been up in arms as much as the next bloke but maybe we should have done a Watford and parted ways with Slav in the Summer . Clearly both parties were far from happy .

[gazberg]

Read another Madeley article this morning on Bilic's demand to sign Grant , absolute madness at this level .
I'd have been up in arms as much as the next bloke but maybe we should have done a Watford and parted ways with Slav in the Summer . Clearly both parties were far from happy .

This is precisely what should have happened. They knew they couldnt work together. Also confirmed he felt we needed a holding midfielder but felt getting Krov and Grant etc was far more important. Insane.

Slav could have walked away with his head held high and cash in his back pocket and reputation enhanced and we would have a good shot at staying up.

30m quid and 1 completely unbalanced squad later, Bilic got a smaller payoff and created one of the worst sides in PL history.

[BaggieNick]

He was allowed to do this?

Take a bow Mr Dowling.

The likes of Grant and Dianga were woefully inadequate. They'll be okay next season and then...?

Pathetic signings.

[WBA]

He was allowed to do this?

Take a bow Mr Dowling.

The likes of Grant and Dianga were woefully inadequate. They'll be okay next season and then...?

Pathetic signings.

They are both 23 and will become key players for us next season and in the future.  They aren't woefully inadequate but our overall recruitment was,  as we didn't strengthen the areas we needed to - too  .

ps change the record Nick!

[SmethDan]

.......Pathetic signings.

The new (not so) cheap and nasty type  ?

[MarkW]

Read another Madeley article this morning on Bilic's demand to sign Grant , absolute madness at this level .
I'd have been up in arms as much as the next bloke but maybe we should have done a Watford and parted ways with Slav in the Summer . Clearly both parties were far from happy .

Was that the mail bag article? He didn't like my suggestion that Diangana was Dowling's vanity project

What was more worrying was that between Bilic and Dowling they decided to strengthen other areas ahead of Sawyers and Livermore.

[BigFrank20]

I see the Merry Hell shop/store is holding aa closing down sale - can't help but wonder if it's connected to the relegation?

[crazedwbafan18]

I see the Merry Hell shop/store is holding aa closing down sale - can't help but wonder if it's connected to the relegation?

Would say it's the legacy of covid more than the relegation impacts. Last year has been disastrous for so many clubs, although online shopping should still be thriving so goodness knows.

[Albionic]

Would say it's the legacy of covid more than the relegation impacts. Last year has been disastrous for so many clubs, although online shopping should still be thriving so goodness knows.

footfall in these big malls must have"well" fallen away dramatically, Covid and big stores closing. Will be a purely commercial decision I imagine. (not saying its right to expect folks from the far flung regions west of dudley to travel to B71 but Lai and his commercial team will doubtless have considered the long term benefits they will lose...)

[cads_ap_albion]

Amongst it all there are two simple questions need answering that underlies huge incompetence at the club:

1. How did the press find out about Bilic' sacking before he did? That is gross incompetence and basic HR skills.

2. Why did someone not clarify with Sam about the transfer of Snodgrass and what he could and could not say on tv? Inept knowledge or poor communication.

Plus the others:

3. Why was squad so unbalanced? We have 1 senior striker and 5 wingers  at the end of this season?

4. Who signed Kipre and why? Because it clearly wasn't Bilic?

5. Who has allowed us to be in a position where we will be 14 players down at the end of this season? Austin, Grosicki, Gibbs, Bartley, Kanu, Yokuslu, Niles, Lonergan, Ivan, Gallagher, Diagne, Edwards. plus the sales of SJ and MP. Is there any strategic planning?

6. Why are our academy staff so disillusioned that so many have left, and worse have then come back and taken some of our best young talent?
Harrison, Hopcroft.. plus other key staff have left unhappy. Why?

7. Why was Bilic so disillusioned after promotion that apparently he wouldn't even consider discussion of a new contract?

happy to be convinced otherwise, but to me at a football level, this is Dowling...

[TheJacko2000]

Amongst it all there are two simple questions need answering that underlies huge incompetence at the club:

1. How did the press find out about Bilic' sacking before he did? That is gross incompetence and basic HR skills.

2. Why did someone not clarify with Sam about the transfer of Snodgrass and what he could and could not say on tv? Inept knowledge or poor communication.

Plus the others:

3. Why was squad so unbalanced? We have 1 senior striker and 5 wingers  at the end of this season?

4. Who signed Kipre and why? Because it clearly wasn't Bilic?

5. Who has allowed us to be in a position where we will be 14 players down at the end of this season? Austin, Grosicki, Gibbs, Bartley, Kanu, Yokuslu, Niles, Lonergan, Ivan, Gallagher, Diagne, Edwards. plus the sales of SJ and MP. Is there any strategic planning?

6. Why are our academy staff so disillusioned that so many have left, and worse have then come back and taken some of our best young talent?
Harrison, Hopcroft.. plus other key staff have left unhappy. Why?

7. Why was Bilic so disillusioned after promotion that apparently he wouldn't even consider discussion of a new contract?

happy to be convinced otherwise, but to me at a football level, this is Dowling...

Not too fussed about 1 (anyone could have leaked that, often happens), 6 (based on the u18s Cup run) or 7 (Bilić knew the hierarchy at the club when he took the job) but the rest are very valid concerns imo.

[cads_ap_albion]

Not too fussed about 1 (anyone could have leaked that, often happens), 6 (based on the u18s Cup run) or 7 (Bilić knew the hierarchy at the club when he took the job) but the rest are very valid concerns imo.

Jacko, accept your points on 6 and 7, but with regards number 1... the unsuccessful candidates were told they hadn't got the job, hence one of the agents leaked it. Why are Albion telling the unsuccessful agents before they tell Bilic he has lost his job? That is just basic good Human Resource management.

[Adder]

Re point 6, yes there may have been some turbulence with Dowling but we also have to factor in that Harrison and co will be on significantly more money at Villa as they were effectively head hunted.
We have decent replacement staff. Sometimes a change is needed by all parties. If there turns out to be further upheaval then that would be greater cause for concern.

[gazberg]

Jacko, accept your points on 6 and 7, but with regards number 1... the unsuccessful candidates were told they hadn't got the job, hence one of the agents leaked it. Why are Albion telling the unsuccessful agents before they tell Bilic he has lost his job? That is just basic good Human Resource management.

Highlighted what our club is missing.

[PartisanBaggie]

This is precisely what should have happened. They knew they couldnt work together. Also confirmed he felt we needed a holding midfielder but felt getting Krov and Grant etc was far more important. Insane.

Slav could have walked away with his head held high and cash in his back pocket and reputation enhanced and we would have a good shot at staying up.

30m quid and 1 completely unbalanced squad later, Bilic got a smaller payoff and created one of the worst sides in PL history.

Bilić and his back room staff should have been publicly thanked by the club, their contracts and bonuses paid up, hands shaken and a mutual parting of ways after QPR at home.

As far as I’m concerned, Bilić and his coaching staff would have left the club having completed their objective to get the club promoted within two years. As Gaz said, reputations enhanced. The Albion, on the other hand, may have avoided what was to later unfold.

[PartisanBaggie]

Re point 6, yes there may have been some turbulence with Dowling but we also have to factor in that Harrison and co will be on significantly more money at Villa as they were effectively head hunted.
We have decent replacement staff. Sometimes a change is needed by all parties. If there turns out to be further upheaval then that would be greater cause for concern.

Didn’t Dowling ruffle the academies feathers when he fostered a split between academy players and the first team?

I agree his approach on this issue was the correct one. I read that the youngsters had got this attitude they’d ‘made it’ as they were mingling much more with the first team.

Some of the senior members at the academy got the hump about the culture change.

[Adder]

Didn’t Dowling ruffle the academies feathers when he fostered a split between academy players and the first team?

I agree his approach on this issue was the correct one. I read that the youngsters had got this attitude they’d ‘made it’ as they were mingling much more with the first team.

Some of the senior members at the academy got the hump about the culture change.

Yes I have heard that. The sort of thing that long standing people may object to but it was probably a good move.

[PartisanBaggie]

Yes I have heard that. The sort of thing that long standing people may object to but it was probably a good move.

During an interview whilst at the Albion, Jerome Thomas spoke about a serious dressing-down he received from Pat Rice (who was Arsene Wenger’s longstanding assistant and a club legend) for using the first teams entrance at the Arsenal Training Centre. Thomas said he’d made a couple of minor first team appearances and thought he’d made it. Apparently that’s not how Pat Rice saw it, who scolded Thomas in front of some of the Arsenal first teamers for his perceived arrogance.

Fair play to Thomas, he said it taught him a valuable lesson in terms of his attitude. I imagine the expletive-filled telling off he received from the Northern Irishman helped sink in the message!