Poll

Will you be taking up your option of receiving the Covid vaccine.

Yes
90 (86.5%)
No
11 (10.6%)
Undecided
3 (2.9%)

Total Members Voted: 104

Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 1184895 times)

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gazberg

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8550 on: June 17, 2021, 09:49:04 PM »
Stop being selfish and think about others. If you catch Covid you can pass it on . Somebody that has had both jabs still has between 10 and 15% chance of catching it , in other words for every 10/15 people you stand by 1 will,probably catch it which could lead to serious consequences for them , all down to your attitude

There is no requirement to think of others when long term effects are yet to be established.

Anyone who is scared should have the vaccines.

MarkW

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8551 on: June 17, 2021, 09:57:02 PM »
There is no requirement to think of others when long term effects are yet to be established.

Anyone who is scared should have the vaccines.

But these kinds of vaccines (mRNA) have been around for quite a while, and have been well studied. They have been tweaked to work for Covid, but they're still very similar to what we had before.

https://www.muhealth.org/our-stories/how-do-we-know-covid-19-vaccine-wont-have-long-term-side-effects

"COVID-19 vaccine technologies have been studied for years and used in other treatments without issue.
mRNA vaccines. The vaccines made by Moderna and Pfizer-BioNTech use messenger RNA, or mRNA, to deliver a message to your immune system with instructions on how to fight the coronavirus infection.

Researchers have been studying and working with mRNA vaccines for decades. mRNA vaccines have been studied before for influenza, Zika and rabies. Beyond vaccines, cancer research has used mRNA to trigger the immune system to target specific cancer cells. Learn more about how mRNA vaccines work.

Adenovector vaccines. Viral vector vaccines use a modified version of a different virus (the vector) to deliver instructions that teach cells how to fight the coronavirus infection. In the case of the COVID-19 case, it’s the adenovirus, a common virus that causes colds or flu-like symptoms. However, the adenovirus was modified so it can enter cells but can’t replicate or cause illness.

Scientists began creating viral vectors in the 1970s, and they have been studied for gene therapy and cancer treatment. Some vaccines recently used for Ebola outbreaks have used viral vector technology, and studies have focused on viral vector vaccines against other infectious diseases such as Zika, influenza and HIV. Learn more about how the Johnson & Johnson vaccine works."
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gazberg

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8552 on: June 17, 2021, 10:00:42 PM »
Mark i don't dispute that covid has been around for some time, i fully agree it's not new but no one knows what will happen down the line. I'm sure no one expected people to die from blood clots, but we are all uniquely different yet similar so that is the risk.

I've had my 2 jabs because I decided the risk was worth taking. Some people won't. It's their life, it's their choice.

hardtobeat

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8553 on: June 17, 2021, 10:21:37 PM »
Mark i don't dispute that covid has been around for some time, i fully agree it's not new but no one knows what will happen down the line. I'm sure no one expected people to die from blood clots, but we are all uniquely different yet similar so that is the risk.

I've had my 2 jabs because I decided the risk was worth taking. Some people won't. It's their life, it's their choice.
But it’s not just their life they could well be putting others at risk !
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MarkW

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8554 on: June 17, 2021, 10:22:52 PM »
The blood clots thing is so overblown, it's ridiculous. If you're a woman on the pill (first, you'd be very surprised!), you'd be at a higher risk of blood clots than we saw with the AZ vaccine.

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/05/06/putting-risks-into-context-covid-19-vaccines-and-blood-clots/



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gazberg

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8555 on: June 17, 2021, 10:33:29 PM »
The blood clots thing is so overblown, it's ridiculous. If you're a woman on the pill (first, you'd be very surprised!), you'd be at a higher risk of blood clots than we saw with the AZ vaccine.

https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/05/06/putting-risks-into-context-covid-19-vaccines-and-blood-clots/



People died from the blood clots though. I've not said many have but people have done. Some cautious, healthy people won't take that risk and it's their choice.

But it’s not just their life they could well be putting others at risk !

Due to the take-up in vaccines it's extremely unlikely otherwise the vaccines are useless! There are many ways unwittingly that humans can set a chain of events in action that unintentionally harm other people. It can't be helped.

Consent is extremely important to a civilized society. Once we take that away it's a rapid decline for us all

KN22

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8556 on: June 17, 2021, 10:33:34 PM »
I haven’t had the vaccine and I won’t until they start making stupid rules up about not letting you go abroad etc which would be absurd.

I’m 29 with no health conditions; it is just not going to hurt me, every single statistic backs this up.

The Vaccine is fantastic for the people who need it (elderly & vulnerable).

Whether I have it or not has absolutely no bearing on anybody else, if I get Covd then who cares? Certainly not me as it won’t affect me. If 300,000 25 year olds get it then who cares? Nobody as it doesn’t affect them.

If it is passed on to someone elderly or vulnerable then they have had the vaccine so they will be protected which is fantastic.

There are more hospitals in the country than Covid patients as the vaccine is working and done its job.

I can see no reasonable argument for me to have this vaccine, it doesn’t affect me and the people it does affect are vaccinated. Can’t really see what we are doing still locked down.

I truly hope that your very confident views are proven to be correct. However, 2 painless low risk shots would still be of great benefit to you in my view.

MarkW

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8557 on: June 17, 2021, 10:45:59 PM »
I haven’t had the vaccine and I won’t until they start making stupid rules up about not letting you go abroad etc which would be absurd.

I’m 29 with no health conditions; it is just not going to hurt me, every single statistic backs this up.

The Vaccine is fantastic for the people who need it (elderly & vulnerable).

Whether I have it or not has absolutely no bearing on anybody else, if I get Covd then who cares? Certainly not me as it won’t affect me. If 300,000 25 year olds get it then who cares? Nobody as it doesn’t affect them.

If it is passed on to someone elderly or vulnerable then they have had the vaccine so they will be protected which is fantastic.

There are more hospitals in the country than Covid patients as the vaccine is working and done its job.

I can see no reasonable argument for me to have this vaccine, it doesn’t affect me and the people it does affect are vaccinated. Can’t really see what we are doing still locked down.

I'm also 29 and I never wear a seatbelt unless the police stop me and force me to, which is absurd to me.

I've got no health conditions, I'm just not going to crash - my eyesight is good and I'm very sensible.

Whether I wear it or not has absolutely no bearing on anyone else. If I crash, who cares?

If I crash into an elderly person well they can wear their seatbelt and have protection.

Everyone else is wearing their seatbelt so I really don't see the need for me to.

Can't really see why I'm still being forced to wear one, to be honest.
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tommcneill

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8558 on: June 17, 2021, 10:53:35 PM »
I'm also 29 and I never wear a seatbelt unless the police stop me and force me to, which is absurd to me.

I've got no health conditions, I'm just not going to crash - my eyesight is good and I'm very sensible.

Whether I wear it or not has absolutely no bearing on anyone else. If I crash, who cares?

If I crash into an elderly person well they can wear their seatbelt and have protection.

Everyone else is wearing their seatbelt so I really don't see the need for me to.

Can't really see why I'm still being forced to wear one, to be honest.

Thats a great reply  ;D
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hardtobeat

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8559 on: June 17, 2021, 11:22:33 PM »
People died from the blood clots though. I've not said many have but people have done. Some cautious, healthy people won't take that risk and it's their choice.

Due to the take-up in vaccines it's extremely unlikely otherwise the vaccines are useless! There are many ways unwittingly that humans can set a chain of events in action that unintentionally harm other people. It can't be helped.


The vaccines are not going to give 100% efficacy few if any ever have. The best numbers for the covid vaccines are around 90% therefore it is personally reasonable 1 in 10 can still catch it hence why everybody without any other medical problems should have the jabs, if only to prevent / reduce the chances of others catching it. To not have the jabs on an I'm alright Jack attitude is bloody stupid and selfish
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gazberg

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8560 on: June 17, 2021, 11:30:55 PM »
We know the vaccines are not fatality proof. That was always the impossible. Many more won't die now though compared to before which is good.

If this delta variant is as bad as they say then assuming the unvaccinated die from it as reported I expect we will see an increase in them taking it.

TheJacko2000

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8561 on: June 17, 2021, 11:35:03 PM »
This selfish shout again. We're miles down the rabbit hole here aren't we? The propaganda machine has really done a number on a worrying amount of otherwise reasonable, intelligent people.

The long term affects of getting this vaccine are entirely unknown.
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gazberg

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8562 on: June 17, 2021, 11:42:36 PM »
Fear, distrust and dislike of other humans who don't agree with the state view has been sewn into the fabric of society.

I think more people disagree with lockdowns etc than let on. People are just pooh scared of disagreeing out loud.

albion59

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8563 on: June 17, 2021, 11:47:36 PM »
This selfish shout again. We're miles down the rabbit hole here aren't we? The propaganda machine has really done a number on a worrying amount of otherwise reasonable, intelligent people.

The long term affects of getting this vaccine are entirely unknown.
The short term affects off having the jab have made me a reasonable, sensible person who as got some patience and listens to other people instead of arguing and going off on one 😀

albion59

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8564 on: June 17, 2021, 11:51:15 PM »
Fear, distrust and dislike of other humans who don't agree with the state view has been sewn into the fabric of society.

I think more people disagree with lockdowns etc than let on. People are just **** scared of disagreeing out loud.
I disagree with lockdowns now and am not scared to disagree out loud. But the reason  we are locked down now is because of selfish people refusing the jabs i also disagree with that and so do a lot of other people who are not scared to disagree out loud.

TheJacko2000

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8565 on: June 17, 2021, 11:55:35 PM »
The short term affects off having the jab have made me a reasonable, sensible person who as got some patience and listens to other people instead of arguing and going off on one 😀

And that's absolutely fair. You've done your own risk assessment and decided to go ahead with vaccination. My issue is the dangerous groupthink that anyone who hasn't come to the same conclusion is selfish or the enemy.
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TheJacko2000

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8566 on: June 17, 2021, 11:59:30 PM »
I disagree with lockdowns now and am not scared to disagree out loud. But the reason  we are locked down now is because of selfish people refusing the jabs i also disagree with that and so do a lot of other people who are not scared to disagree out loud.

This isn't true mate. Hence the problem with your entire standpoint from my perspective.
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KN22

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8567 on: June 18, 2021, 07:40:22 AM »
I'm also 29 and I never wear a seatbelt unless the police stop me and force me to, which is absurd to me.

I've got no health conditions, I'm just not going to crash - my eyesight is good and I'm very sensible.

Whether I wear it or not has absolutely no bearing on anyone else. If I crash, who cares?

If I crash into an elderly person well they can wear their seatbelt and have protection.

Everyone else is wearing their seatbelt so I really don't see the need for me to.

Can't really see why I'm still being forced to wear one, to be honest.

I just love this. A different angle which highlights how selfish it is to not have the jab for any reason other than one that is health related.

skyclad99

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8568 on: June 18, 2021, 08:49:18 AM »
I just love this. A different angle which highlights how selfish it is to not have the jab for any reason other than one that is health related.

MarkW is spot on with that assessment, completely sums it up for me
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8569 on: June 18, 2021, 09:21:47 AM »
I'm also 29 and I never wear a seatbelt unless the police stop me and force me to, which is absurd to me.

I've got no health conditions, I'm just not going to crash - my eyesight is good and I'm very sensible.

Whether I wear it or not has absolutely no bearing on anyone else. If I crash, who cares?

If I crash into an elderly person well they can wear their seatbelt and have protection.

Everyone else is wearing their seatbelt so I really don't see the need for me to.

Can't really see why I'm still being forced to wear one, to be honest.

Absolutely spot on Mark W.
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section5

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8570 on: June 18, 2021, 09:30:32 AM »
Don’t get how it’s spot on for someone who has already gained immunity without a vaccine...

albion59

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8571 on: June 18, 2021, 10:55:07 AM »
Don’t get how it’s spot on for someone who has already gained immunity without a vaccine...
This is the mistake people are making even after 2 jabs you are not immune! You can still catch it maybe not as bad for the majority of people but there will still be some who will become seriously ill.

TheJacko2000

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8572 on: June 18, 2021, 11:11:17 AM »
I just love this. A different angle which highlights how selfish it is to not have the jab for any reason other than one that is health related.


The act of putting on a seatbelt will not cause the wearer any harm/kill them. There is no need to locate the people who would die or suffer just by putting it on.

There are other reasons it's a poor analogy but this is enough to get the point across.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2021, 11:55:05 AM by LiamTheBaggie »
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section5

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8573 on: June 18, 2021, 11:58:02 AM »
This is the mistake people are making even after 2 jabs you are not immune! You can still catch it maybe not as bad for the majority of people but there will still be some who will become seriously ill.

There’s plenty of evidence to suggest natural immunity and pre-existing/cross reactive immunity..

What I think you’re suggesting with the 2 jabs (I may be incorrect) is under the presumption that exposure to the virus hasn’t already happened naturally or any element of cross reactive immunity is in play. This is when (like flu) having the jabs doesn’t necessarily mean you won’t catch it but will potentially lower its impact.

Natural/cross reactive/unexposed immunity links:

“Neutralizing antibody levels are highly predictive of immune protection from symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection”
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01377-8

“Protection of previous SARS-CoV-2 infection is similar to that of BNT162b2 vaccine protection: A three-month nationwide experience from Israel”
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.04.20.21255670v1.full.pdf

“Pre-existing T-cell immunity to SARS-CoV-2 in unexposed healthy controls in Ecuador, as detected with a COVID-19 Interferon-Gamma Release Assay”
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S120197122100120X

“SARS-CoV-2-specific T cell immunity in cases of COVID-19 and SARS, and uninfected controls”
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2550-z

“Selective and cross-reactive SARS-CoV-2 T cell epitopes in unexposed humans”
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/370/6512/89

“Presence of SARS-CoV-2-reactive T cells in COVID-19 patients and healthy donors”
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.17.20061440v1.article-info#disqus_thread

“Unexpected detection of SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in the prepandemic period in Italy”
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0300891620974755

“Human neutralizing antibodies elicited by SARS-CoV-2 infection”
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2380-z

“Covid-19: Do many people have pre-existing immunity?”
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563

“COVID-19: Public immunity ‘significantly higher’ than tests suggest”
https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/covid-19-public-immunity-significantly-higher-than-tests-suggest/amp/

“The Coronavirus Is New, but Your Immune System Might Still Recognize It”
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/06/health/coronavirus-immune-cells.html

“Anti-Spike, anti-Nucleocapsid and neutralizing antibodies in
2 SARS-CoV-2 hospitalized patients and asymptomatic carriers”
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/medrxiv/early/2020/05/18/2020.05.12.20098236.full.pdf

Also in regards to the jabs is there not a danger by jabbing too many people that we are actually adding to the mutations through vaccine induced pathological strain replacement?

“Vaccination, which intensifies and modifies selection by protecting hosts against one or more pathogen strains, can drive the emergence of new dominant pathogen strains-a phenomenon called vaccine-induced pathogen strain replacement. Here, we review reports of increased incidence of subdominant variants after vaccination campaigns and extend the current model for pathogen strain replacement, which assumes that pathogen strain replacement occurs only through the differential effectiveness of vaccines against different pathogen strains. Based on a recent theoretical study, we suggest a broader range of possible mechanisms, some of which allow pathogen strain replacement even when vaccines are perfect-that is, they protect all vaccinated individuals completely against all pathogen strains. We draw an analogy with ecological and evolutionary explanations for competitive dominance and coexistence”

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17459810/

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #8574 on: June 18, 2021, 01:55:51 PM »
Don’t get how it’s spot on for someone who has already gained immunity without a vaccine...

Thats assuming you have natural immunity......

And you know what happens when you assume
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