Author Topic: Matheus Pereira  (Read 487395 times)

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Dexy

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1550 on: May 14, 2021, 09:58:31 AM »
Good point about Gera 2004/05.

The other one is Lukaku, we baulked at £20m, then he was £75m later on.

I don't subscribe to this 3 month period.  What are we expecting George Best/Pele/Messi all rolled into one?

If we accept £30m, we'll regret that decision for the next decade.  All it takes is another Grant & Burke for £15m each and the money has gone.

Furthermore, I'll be a bit pessimistic about promotion next year.
30/35m will be about on point , its how you spend it .....which I wouldn't trust Dowling one bit sadly .
He wasn't only one to be below par early these season in fairness . As I posted earlier I'd love this club to start a production line of gems for little then sold for a lot .
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1551 on: May 14, 2021, 10:04:33 AM »
Grealish Vs Periera

23 matches played, 1,996 minutes Vs 31 matches played, 2,397 minutes

6 goals (of which 0 penalties) Vs 10 goals (of which 4 penalties)
10 assists Vs 5 assists

Per 90

0.27 goals Vs 0.38
0.45 assists Vs 0.19
0.72 goals + assists - penalties Vs 0.41

Expected values per 90

0.19 xG Vs 0.25
0.37 xA Vs 0.19
0.56 Non Penalty xG +xA Vs 0.33

Pereira is a good player in a poor team, there is no doubt, but he's not putting up the same kind of numbers of Grealish. If Pereira wasn't our penalty taker, he'd be on 6 goals and five assists, and maybe this conversation would be different
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baggie82

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1552 on: May 14, 2021, 10:20:28 AM »
Grealish Vs Periera

23 matches played, 1,996 minutes Vs 31 matches played, 2,397 minutes

6 goals (of which 0 penalties) Vs 10 goals (of which 4 penalties)
10 assists Vs 5 assists

Per 90

0.27 goals Vs 0.38
0.45 assists Vs 0.19
0.72 goals + assists - penalties Vs 0.41

Expected values per 90

0.19 xG Vs 0.25
0.37 xA Vs 0.19
0.56 Non Penalty xG +xA Vs 0.33

Pereira is a good player in a poor team, there is no doubt, but he's not putting up the same kind of numbers of Grealish. If Pereira wasn't our penalty taker, he'd be on 6 goals and five assists, and maybe this conversation would be different

Pereira is every bit as good as grealish, who has had the luxury of playing with better players and two seasons now in this league.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1553 on: May 14, 2021, 10:23:07 AM »
The Grealish Pereira comparison wouldnt work even if the goals and asssit numbers were identical.

Grealish is a boyhood Villa Fan.
Villa haven't been relegated.
Grealish is English.

Those, particularly the second point affect value. Relegation affects your ability to keep a player and their value.   

Beyond the stats Grealish is better than Pereira which my be unpopular on here but its true.  he stats don't show how much Grealish drags the villa forward and has done for about three years.

Pereira may have started to do that but it has only been since January.

Who are the best players that have stayed with relegated teams in the championship? 



miggybaggy

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1554 on: May 14, 2021, 11:22:18 AM »
I've said it before and I'll repeat it....without Pereira this team is worse than average and will struggle to achieve mid-table mediocrity next season, unless he's adequately replaced. And good luck with that if he goes for a pittance.

If all crowd restrictions are lifted, I expect us to be performing in front of an average of 15,000 for some time to come thanks to the small time attitude of our ownership and over-reliance on loans, has-been players, and bewildering match-day tactical decisions by recent managers. Not a confident baggie at the moment!  :(

GREGMT

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1555 on: May 14, 2021, 11:27:55 AM »
I almost give up on the negativity of Albion supporters.  Embracing mediocrity, then when we do have a superstar failing to recognise their true quality.  Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

I don't know what people are watching? 

The fact Grealish plays with better players than Pereira is massively significant, in the same way De Bruyne plays in an excellent Man City side.

Brentford managed to extract £28m for Ollie Watkins, of course Pereira is only worth £2m more.


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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1556 on: May 14, 2021, 11:35:08 AM »
I almost give up on the negativity of Albion supporters.  Embracing mediocrity, then when we do have a superstar failing to recognise their true quality.  Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

I don't know what people are watching? 

The fact Grealish plays with better players than Pereira is massively significant, in the same way De Bruyne plays in an excellent Man City side.

Brentford managed to extract £28m for Ollie Watkins, of course Pereira is only worth £2m more.

You think Albion fans are at the extreme of a spectrum and that pretty much you alone seem to sit in the middle.

I’m sorry to say that I think it’s you thats at the extreme end.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1557 on: May 14, 2021, 11:44:13 AM »
You think Albion fans are at the extreme of a spectrum and that pretty much you alone seem to sit in the middle.

I’m sorry to say that I think it’s you thats at the extreme end.


Ollie Watkins £28m from the Championship, no Premier League experience.  And we're only taking £30m for a stellar Premier League player?

This makes a whole load of sense!

I have a more upbeat attitude regarding WBA than most.  I'd rather live my life with that type of attitude.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1558 on: May 14, 2021, 11:54:07 AM »
£30m is pretty much the lowest amount people have said. You’ve said pretty much the highest. Think about why you can’t comprehend £30m and you might start understand why people don’t understand your £90m

Ollie Watkins was a deal up to £28m I believe. I think Nathan Ake is the record for a relegated side at £40m.   


Your arguments for £90 have been the World Cup winning, 4 Serie A titles in a row sale of Pogba, and probably someone view as one of the top 5 players in the world at the time, going from one champions league side to another, Eden Hazard. 

miggybaggy

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1559 on: May 14, 2021, 11:58:52 AM »
I almost give up on the negativity of Albion supporters.  Embracing mediocrity, then when we do have a superstar failing to recognise their true quality.  Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

I don't know what people are watching? 

The fact Grealish plays with better players than Pereira is massively significant, in the same way De Bruyne plays in an excellent Man City side.

Brentford managed to extract £28m for Ollie Watkins, of course Pereira is only worth £2m more.

Yes, I'm very negative at present....but at no point have I ever, or will ever, embrace mediocrity. My argument is that we should be moving heaven and earth to hold on to players of this calibre and build teams around them. But no....its always the little old West Brom approach with us. Fed up of it.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1560 on: May 14, 2021, 12:23:27 PM »
£30m is pretty much the lowest amount people have said. You’ve said pretty much the highest. Think about why you can’t comprehend £30m and you might start understand why people don’t understand your £90m

Ollie Watkins was a deal up to £28m I believe. I think Nathan Ake is the record for a relegated side at £40m.   


Your arguments for £90 have been the World Cup winning, 4 Serie A titles in a row sale of Pogba, and probably someone view as one of the top 5 players in the world at the time, going from one champions league side to another, Eden Hazard. 

Serious question: Who's the best player right now of Pogba, Hazard, Pereira?

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1561 on: May 14, 2021, 12:27:44 PM »
He is as good as Grealish

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1562 on: May 14, 2021, 12:41:20 PM »
I think a lot of fans will be in for a shock if we sell him and how much we actually get

How much is that then?
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1563 on: May 14, 2021, 12:53:11 PM »
He is as good as Grealish

He's not unfortunately. But there is no real shame in that. Greasy is an exceptional footballer.
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baggieboy79

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1564 on: May 14, 2021, 12:59:45 PM »
He is as good as Grealish

Unpopular opinion incoming; I'm not sure I completely agree with that.  Villa were sitting in 12th place in the Championship before Grealish came back from injury.  He dragged them up to fifth, through the play offs and then played a massive part in keeping them up last season.  Pereira is very good but I wouldn't put him at the level of Grealish at the moment. 

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1565 on: May 14, 2021, 01:08:46 PM »
Grealish is a much better all round player IMO

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1566 on: May 14, 2021, 01:38:43 PM »
He is as good as Grealish

He could be but he is not there yet....
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1567 on: May 14, 2021, 01:43:53 PM »
I almost give up on the negativity of Albion supporters.  Embracing mediocrity, then when we do have a superstar failing to recognise their true quality.  Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

I agree with you. We have right odd bunch who not only like to talk down the price but also accept he must be sold as well, despite being tied down on a long term contract.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1568 on: May 14, 2021, 01:54:23 PM »
I agree with you. We have right odd bunch who not only like to talk down the price but also accept he must be sold as well, despite being tied down on a long term contract.

I only say sell because I appreciate how difficult it must be for Pereira to trawl through another Championship season. 

£30m is giving Pereira away! 

What is irritating is an acceptance that Grealish is the better player (which I don't agree with).  BTW I respect Grealish / am not using any anti Villa sentiment.

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1569 on: May 14, 2021, 02:56:05 PM »
It is not a question of talking the player down or being defeatist because views on a fan forum don't change reality.

I have two question marks about the bigger valuations firstly is the market as a whole. Regardless of what fans might think the market has deflated. The top transfer in summer 19/20 was £110m and the 25th largest £34m last summer it was £72m and the 25th largest was £25m. Nothing that has happened in the interim has put new money into the market.

The second is the comparison to other players like Grealish who aren't in the quite the same position but in any event the alleged valuations aren't real because nobody has met the asking price. Or other pre Covid prices for players who have extensive Champions League and International experience neither of which applies to Pereira. 

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1570 on: May 14, 2021, 03:10:30 PM »
Most people here seem to accept Pereira is a fantastic player. I see few if any disputing that.

What is undeniable is that second tier sides do not get the biggest fees:

https://www.goal.com/en/news/the-100-most-expensive-football-transfers-of-all-time/ikr3oojohla51fh9adq3qkwpu

Look at that list. 95% of the transfers over 50m involve players going from a club regularly competing in Europe to other clubs that regularly appear in Europe.  The exception generally involve young players hyped as generational talents other than the Lukaku (from Everton) and Van Dyke deals who had performed solidly for a couple of years.

Once you get to Bissaka and Sigurdsson at 50m a few become a bit more comparable even then, those clubs hadnt been relegated.









« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 03:13:57 PM by johnny Cash »

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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1571 on: May 14, 2021, 03:49:50 PM »
Well if people are declaring that Pereira is indeed a fantastic player, then why is the bar being set so low at £30m?

I can only deduce that people are having a downbeat attitude "we're only West Brom" and that Villa can demand higher for Grealish because we have an inferiority complex.

All this analysis about who goes for what according to team / their place in the football chain is overcomplicating matters.

Have the following come to Stamford Bridge and ran the match this season - De Bruyne, Fernandes, Mane, Grealish, Modric or any other champions league player?




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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1572 on: May 14, 2021, 03:51:08 PM »
We must not sell him. We obviously have to hang on to our best players. Furthermore we all know if we sold him the money would be spent on gob stopper sand flying saucers by dopey Dowling.

This is another Lukaku moment, as someone else has already said.
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1573 on: May 14, 2021, 03:56:00 PM »
Well if people are declaring that Pereira is indeed a fantastic player, then why is the bar being set so low at £30m?

I can only deduce that people are having a downbeat attitude "we're only West Brom" and that Villa can demand higher for Grealish because we have an inferiority complex.

All this analysis about who goes for what according to team / their place in the football chain is overcomplicating matters.

Have the following come to Stamford Bridge and ran the match this season - De Bruyne, Fernandes, Mane, Grealish, Modric or any other champions league player?

Why do you keep referencing a game where the opposition had 10 men for over an hour and comparing him to World Class players (Grealish aside) who've done it over a number of seasons at the highest levels of the game?

A baffling approach to the discussion tbh.
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Re: Matheus Pereira
« Reply #1574 on: May 14, 2021, 04:16:47 PM »
Why do you keep referencing a game where the opposition had 10 men for over an hour and comparing him to World Class players (Grealish aside) who've done it over a number of seasons at the highest levels of the game?

A baffling approach to the discussion tbh.


Zidane is still world class because he had 10 years with Real Madrid, never mind he's about 42 and retired!

Lukaku wasn't proven on the world stage (was at Anderlecht), Vardy & Kevin Phillips joined the pro game late (starting non-league).  Grealishhasn't played in Europe but everyone knows he's a top talent.

As Pereira plays for a so-called unfashionable club, conseqently it affects transfer value, in your eyes.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2021, 07:49:02 AM by LiamTheBaggie »