[Canmore Baggie]

Ok so let's turn this on it's head as, it seems, a lot of fans, myself included, are being called things like "smalltime", "shameful", "disrespectful of our history" for simply suggesting that we can enjoy life further down the leagues.

Well here's my story:

1st game 1978 and still the greatest team I have seen in our colours

1st European game 1978/79 Home only unfortunately, I was only a kid

1987 1st Season ticket and freedom to go home and away without dad. So those wilderness years were some of my most memorable, exciting wonderous times as a human being, let alone an Albion fan. It didn't matter that we were rubbish most of the time, or what league we were in, I went week in, week out, all over this wonderful country with some of the greatest, weirdest, funniest blokes I have ever met. Did I ever consider giving up or, god forbid, jumping ship? Not on your life.

The best home game I have ever attended also happened within those years against Swansea (no, not Liverpool or Man Utd.), just little old Swansea in the Play off semi of 1993.

My first trip to Wembley, yes you've guessed it Port Vale 1993. Best Baggies day ever.

I was on the pitch in 2002
and again for the Great Escape.

No-one can question my loyalty, commitment or respect for this fabulous club. In fact I would say it's the opposite, I think accepting whatever level we play at is more respectful than constantly criticising the club for not being where we "should be"

Throughout all of those years, the one thing I always had was hope. The Premier League has now managed to remove that. Regardless of our history or prestige, we simply cannot compete, for 1 reason and 1 reason only, and that is money. It doesn't matter where we think we should be, we are, at any point in time, exactly where we are and I think it far more disrespectful to slag of my club for something that is pretty much out of their control.

So for that reason, yes, I am happy to go down and play in a league were anyone really can beat anyone, where referees are not corrupt, where VAR cannot intervene, to placate the money men, and yes, where we win more games!
Ask my missus, daughter, the dog or the cat, I am happy when the Baggies win, so yes, I may be fickle but....

Roll on August

Cracking post that. Looks like my first season was the one before yours. And sentiment the same - money and VAR have ruined the top flight experience. Let's start looking forward to winning a few games again! But no doubt losing to Peterborough in the first game of the season... 

[ex coseley kid]

Albion are a massive club to me because that is what was instilled into me as a kid. I remember being about 10 years old (1974) and getting a glass mug with our honours printed on it thinking - we've not won much mind you, have we?

Then for a few years it looked like we might well do so/ could do so.

My point is though regardless of where we are and how we've drunk it all up the wall for 40 years more or less, what is in my head - how big a club we are - should be in the heads of the board, the management, the players, the club philosophy.

We just need some people at the helm who think that way.

[Albionic]

Great away day is Peterborough, enjoy that more than the Emirates or Etihad personally 

[Gilsey 56]

I will never understand and no one as ever succeeded in explaining to me how supporting a club can be so emotional, you laugh, scream, cry, aggressive( mellows with age) ruins your weekends, can't talk to anyone and are so ecstatic its unbelievable. the club you are born to support never leaves you and as someone said in an earlier post the club is the only constant in it all.
So I will be there next season and will give the premier league 5 minutes thought before kick off then it will all be forgot.

[baggiemart]

Throughout our history we’ve only really had one awful spell which was 86 - 02 now for some reason it’s like our fan base judge us on those years and think that whatever happens we are lucky to be where we are because of those years.

Other clubs have had excellent times in history forest, Leeds, wolves etc all 3 of those have had worse times than those 16 years of ours recently yet you would never know it.

Those 3 clubs are still considered by themselves and others as big clubs due to their successful periods.

For some reason we forget how good our spells were in the 50s, 60s & late 70s and as stated judge ourselves against those 16 years, don’t get it.

We have spent many more years in the top flight than those 3 teams mentioned.

So would you rate Huddesfield a top team because they won the title 3 times on the trot in the 1920s . Maybe Portsmouth who won it twice on the trot in the 1940's, Derby won it twice in the 70's . Blackburn also won the premier league in the 90's.  So by everyones definition of a big club these 4 should be in front of us. 

I think the big club definition should be what the club has achieved in the last 10 to 20 years. As far as major silverware is concerned we have won nothing in the last 50 years. So we are should not be classed as a big club !!!

[baggiemart]

I will never understand and no one as ever succeeded in explaining to me how supporting a club can be so emotional, you laugh, scream, cry, aggressive( mellows with age) ruins your weekends, can't talk to anyone and are so ecstatic its unbelievable. the club you are born to support never leaves you and as someone said in an earlier post the club is the only constant in it all.
So I will be there next season and will give the premier league 5 minutes thought before kick off then it will all be forgot.

BUT  will you be there ?  I can see the 10000 limit carrying on into next season. Interesting to see what happens about season tickets!!

[Gilsey 56]

this big club debate will go on forever, there are only 6 big clubs that matter in this country and they tried to make a run for it with the Crown Jewels.
what defines a big club is the unanswerable question, everybody in there time as had a go, but no club is bigger than mine.

[alex1]

As my Dad used to say, if you aim to be the best you might not achieve it, but at least you'll probably do okay.  If you aim to be average, you'll end up achieving nothing.   Applies generally in life, but also to football clubs.

[Albionic]

As my Dad used to say, if you aim to be the best you might not achieve it, but at least you'll probably do okay.  If you aim to be average, you'll end up achieving nothing.   Applies generally in life, but also to football clubs.

thats an argument I haven't heard before and sounds like a good attitude to stuff, just a shame football (like life) isn't fair

[zippyandbungle]

I've read a few threads on Villa forums over the years. Every now and again someone comes out with a comment about Albion supporters being a weird bunch. Threads like this make me realise they've got a point.

When our own supporters don't think there's much point to us being in the top flight, it should come as no surprise to us should others feel there's little point to us being there either. Or even just being.

As coping mechanisms go being happy to be a bigger fish in a smaller pond seems like that of a primary school bully who's secretly scared of getting walloped in the playground at secondary school.

How depressing.

To be fair I get both sides of this argument
You spend a lot of time and effor trying to win and succeed , then when you do, being successful becomes almost impossible so you resort back to being less so and enjoying it more..

A bit like buying a brand new 1.2 Kia ceed, for 9k ......or a pretty old Porsche Boxster for 6k

I’m not sure it’s as easy as a lack of ambition, more a feeling of bloody VAR and everyone likes to win....anyway, this season we drive the Porsche, let’s hope it gets serviced.

[SmethDan]

To be fair I get both sides of this argument
You spend a lot of time and effor trying to win and succeed , then when you do, being successful becomes almost impossible so you resort back to being less so and enjoying it more..

A bit like buying a brand new 1.2 Kia ceed, for 9k ......or a pretty old Porsche Boxster for 6k

I’m not sure it’s as easy as a lack of ambition, more a feeling of bloody VAR and everyone likes to win....anyway, this season we drive the Porsche, let’s hope it gets serviced.

The thing for me is while I fully appreciate the desire to see Albion win games I want to see us do it at the highest level possible. The higher you are the more resources and choices you have at your disposal. How you then use the resources at your disposal is key. I'd rather a key to more choices than not.

To my mind there's no shame in failing against the odds. I want Albion to win, always. Walking away from Anfield after beating them on their own doorstep in the FA Cup meant more to me than beating Doncaster on their patch to gain promotion to the Premier League.

Liverpool have far greater resources than us and 'should' have beaten us and  we 'should' have been beating Doncaster all those years before. In a terrible season of wasted resources that day at Anfield also meant more to me than walking away as victors at Accrington Stanley in the League Cup.

We had far greater resources than Accrington Stanley but with every respect we 'should' have been beating them and we did. Victory was still sweet but Liverpool was far sweeter because we were well and truly up against the odds. To my mind there's far more to be taken in hard earned spoils than walk overs.

I would never relinquish promotion to the Premier League in favour of an away day in the Championship. I'd have enjoyed the away days en route and be looking forward to the prospect of having some more. Throwing tiny bolts hidden in little sprouts at primary school kids isn't for me. Were I still at school I'd rather a scrap with an older bully every day of the week.

COYB and SOTV  .

[seteefeet]

The thing for me is while I fully appreciate the desire to see Albion win games I want to see us do it at the highest level possible. The higher you are the more resources and choices you have at your disposal. How you then use the resources at your disposal is key. I'd rather a key to more choices than not.

To my mind there's no shame in failing against the odds. I want Albion to win, always. Walking away from Anfield after beating them on their own doorstep in the FA Cup meant more to me than beating Doncaster on their patch to gain promotion to the Premier League.

Liverpool have far greater resources than us and 'should' have beaten us and  we 'should' have been beating Doncaster all those years before. In a terrible season of wasted resources that day at Anfield also meant more to me than walking away as victors at Accrington Stanley in the League Cup.

We had far greater resources than Accrington Stanley but with every respect we 'should' have been beating them and we did. Victory was still sweet but Liverpool was far sweeter because we were well and truly up against the odds. To my mind there's far more to be taken in hard earned spoils than walk overs.

I would never relinquish promotion to the Premier League in favour of an away day in the Championship. I'd have enjoyed the away days en route and be looking forward to the prospect of having some more. Throwing tiny bolts hidden in little sprouts at primary school kids isn't for me. Were I still at school I'd rather a scrap with an older bully every day of the week.

COYB and SOTV  .

Sorry Dan, I get the sentiment but this bit just isn't feasible in reality, it is however a very good analogy for our situation.
If you get beaten up every day, sooner or later you end up broken or worse, the only way the beatings stop is if you address you shortcomings and level the playing field and, for us to do that means money! So, unless someone comes in with a truckload of cash, the beatings will not stop, we'll just keep getting lamped and the bullies will keep smirking, as if they are super hard, whilst ignoring the fact that it is never a fair fight.

The trouble is the Premier League, Sky etc. are the authorities "turning a blind eye" to the beatings and patting the bullies on the back for doing a tremendous job.

I've said it a dozen times, we can blame whoever we like within the club but it is the Premier League itself who is the biggest bully and therefore our worst enemy.

[TheJacko2000]

Doesn't matter how many times it's said. The Championship isn't a level playing field. We're the ESL club in that division. It's why some of our fans like it. The fan response to that 3rd consecutive season down there would be a massive eye opener to some I feel. The 90s was ****, nostalgia makes it feel otherwise but it was.

[Albionic]

we are the cruiser weight who tries stepping up to heavyweight gets battered and comes back down to cruiser where a load of welterweights are trying to step up, so we batter the welterweights,
Yes at some point we either do over a couple of heavies or get done over by very good welterweights but at some point you have to accept you are not going to be Heavy weight champion of the world or Uk even.

Someone once said "we know what we am" and its a good maxim,  no good comes from deluding ourselves, just disappointment and frustration.  But yes its nice when you put a heavy on his ar5e !! 
Maybe thats why the cups were so enjoyable (once upon a time)

[SmethDan]

Sorry Dan, I get the sentiment but this bit just isn't feasible in reality, it is however a very good analogy for our situation.
If you get beaten up every day, sooner or later you end up broken or worse, the only way the beatings stop is if you address you shortcomings and level the playing field and, for us to do that means money! So, unless someone comes in with a truckload of cash, the beatings will not stop, we'll just keep getting lamped and the bullies will keep smirking, as if they are super hard, whilst ignoring the fact that it is never a fair fight.

The trouble is the Premier League, Sky etc. are the authorities "turning a blind eye" to the beatings and patting the bullies on the back for doing a tremendous job.

I've said it a dozen times, we can blame whoever we like within the club but it is the Premier League itself who is the biggest bully and therefore our worst enemy.

I can't help but think you're taking your examples of daily kickings too far. The fear of taking a beating often outweighs the beating itself anyway.

I don't look at playing against the big boys through goggles of trepidation so much as windows of opportunity. The point is I'd rather take a worthy win over an expected one.

It's a mindset which sets me apart from internet followers of the so called big boys for example. In life you can't reach your potential if you don't test yourself. It's similar with football.

On a wider point I'd still prefer to kick a bully in the gruddocks and take the consequences than become a bully. I was born broken anyway so I don't see it as a problem  .

[seteefeet]

I can't help but think you're taking your examples of daily kickings too far. The fear of taking a beating often outweighs the beating itself anyway.

I don't look at playing against the big boys through goggles of trepidation so much as windows of opportunity. The point is I'd rather take a worthy win over an expected one.

It's a mindset which sets me apart from internet followers of the so called big boys for example. In life you can't reach your potential if you don't test yourself. It's similar with football.

On a wider point I'd still prefer to kick a bully in the gruddocks and take the consequences than become a bully. I was born broken anyway so I don't see it as a problem  .

I fully agree with the last point, I've taken on my own share of bullies in my time mate and will continue to do so.

The point I'm making is it's not just the money teams we are up against it's the organisation itself and that's what grinds my gears.
And, yes, the Championship is not a fully level playing field but it's not biased or corrupt towards certain teams, just because of the size of their wallets and the value they bring to the brand. The only real advantage to be gained in the Champ is to be relegated from the Prem, which let's face it, we have become experts at.

[wba_1996]

Crystal Palace, Brighton, Southampton, Burnley, Watford, Norwich. Hardly the unstoppable giant clubs our fans make them out to be are they... With a decent owner and a decent director of football we can easily compete with these teams.

The Championship and League 1 have bigger and more successful clubs in them than the bottom half of the Prem, Forest, Sunderland, Derby, Blackburn, Wednesday. What do they all have in common? Bad owners and poor recruitment.

[SmethDan]

I fully agree with the last point, I've taken on my own share of bullies in my time mate and will continue to do so.

The point I'm making is it's not just the money teams we are up against it's the organisation itself and that's what grinds my gears.
And, yes, the Championship is not a fully level playing field but it's not biased or corrupt towards certain teams, just because of the size of their wallets and the value they bring to the brand. The only real advantage to be gained in the Champ is to be relegated from the Prem, which let's face it, we have become experts at.

Either way, here's to a hopefully successful promotion campaign. I'll worry about VAR and potential bias as and when it becomes an issue. In the meantime I look forward to West Bromwich Albion winning the most games possible at whichever level we find ourselves in future. The higher the level and playing standard the better for me though. COYB  .

[seteefeet]

we are the cruiser weight who tries stepping up to heavyweight gets battered and comes back down to cruiser where a load of welterweights are trying to step up, so we batter the welterweights,
Yes at some point we either do over a couple of heavies or get done over by very good welterweights but at some point you have to accept you are not going to be Heavy weight champion of the world or Uk even.

Someone once said "we know what we am" and its a good maxim,  no good comes from deluding ourselves, just disappointment and frustration.  But yes its nice when you put a heavy on his ar5e !! 
Maybe thats why the cups were so enjoyable (once upon a time)

I'd add bitterness to that list and that's what I don't get. There is so much bitterness and angst, towards the club, from our own fans, about lack of ambition, smalltime short termism etc, yet, in the last 20 years we have spent 12 seasons in the top flight, never finished outside the top 6 in the Champ and been promoted 5 times. Given our budgetary inequality, I would say that is more than holding our own and standing up to the bullies, so why not be proud of it, go down with dignity and come back swinging in August!

[seteefeet]

Crystal Palace, Brighton, Southampton, Burnley, Watford, Norwich. Hardly the unstoppable giant clubs our fans make them out to be are they... With a decent owner and a decent director of football we can easily compete with these teams.

The Championship and League 1 have bigger and more successful clubs in them than the bottom half of the Prem, Forest, Sunderland, Derby, Blackburn, Wednesday. What do they all have in common? Bad owners and poor recruitment.

Out of that list, Burnley are the real success story, with a record signing of just £15m. May be said they have sacrificed quite a bit in terms of style, but fair play to them.

The others:
Palace = £28m
Saints = £20m
Watford = £27m

I would also imagine their wages bills are considerably higher.

Does this suggest they simply have greater ambition or just more money? I'd say the latter.

Brighton are relative new comers so over the last 10 years we have been far more successful, yet their record is still higher than ours at £20m

Norwich's record is similar but again, we have been far more successful, although their record signing is far lower at just £8.5m (watch this space)

You can't really cite poor management and poor recruitment as reasons for the failure of the likes of Forest, Sunderland etc. and level the same criticism of us, as we have massively out-performed them in recent years. We must have been doing something right, right?

[wodenson46]

I can't help but think you're taking your examples of daily kickings too far. The fear of taking a beating often outweighs the beating itself anyway.

I don't look at playing against the big boys through goggles of trepidation so much as windows of opportunity. The point is I'd rather take a worthy win over an expected one.

It's a mindset which sets me apart from internet followers of the so called big boys for example. In life you can't reach your potential if you don't test yourself. It's similar with football.

On a wider point I'd still prefer to kick a bully in the gruddocks and take the consequences than become a bully. I was born broken anyway so I don't see it as a problem  .

Blimey Smethdan this has been so similar to my own creed we might be twin souls.(god forbid)  . Fully agree with nearly all you say here and it ought to be something set in stone for others to follow.

However I would slightly modify it in my own case. (disagree is far too strong). In the case of taking on the bully. Me not being an 'ard mon' I would much prefer a time and a place of my own choosing, take any advantage I could get and I would never take him on in a fair fight. I would cheat like **** , attack him without any provocation or warning when his back was turned with any weapon I could get hold of. Just to put him away first, then do him over so bad he would not be able to bully anybody for a long time. To beat the bully you have to be the hardest. You have to be the one who makes the rules about who gets done and who doesn't. Then you can stop all of it because it becomes your choice.

As a football club you cannot do this and we have to accept we have no chance of ever being being one of the rule makers in the premier league. But we can sometimes take on the cheating bullying ******** if we understand exactly what we are and where our strengths lie, or find ways to gain unfair advantages. Maybe a Barca/vile attitude to buying young quality players and just not bothering to pay the club who nurtured them would be a good starting point? If that means a season in the champs to change things to try to come back stronger and more able to mix it on their terms, so be it. It is not where I want us to be but will enjoy the recently rare experience of maybe winning a few games, and the strong possibility of promotion to have another go the season after.

It is true a lot needs to happen at our club to come back stronger and the debate on here shows how complex it will be. We can only hope that the club has enough good luck to get more right than wrong and that in a couple of seasons we can be where we belong back with the resources, the management and playing skills to be mixing it again with the very best in the country. And lets just see if we can kick a few more of these bullies in the gruddocks.

[baggie82]

Out of that list, Burnley are the real success story, with a record signing of just £15m. May be said they have sacrificed quite a bit in terms of style, but fair play to them.

Burnley have always had quality in the spine of their team with an excellent keeper (Heaton and now Pope), tough physical defenders and have consistently played with two dangerous goal scorers up front (Barnes and Wood) in an orthodox 442 with wingers. That has always been enough to see them safe. It is fine margins at this level. The periods in which they have looked like relegation fodder have been when Chris Wood was injured etc and the goals dried up.

[bangkokbaggie]

This talk of small club mentality is perfectly summed up when we shrank the stadium capacity a few years ago. Is there any other club that has done similar?

[baggie82]

This talk of small club mentality is perfectly summed up when we shrank the stadium capacity a few years ago. Is there any other club that has done similar?

None that I know of. Most strikingly a lot of fans lapped it up.

[SmethDan]

None that I know of. Most strikingly a lot of fans lapped it up.

I don't recall lots of fans lapping up a reduction in stadium capacity surprisingly or otherwise. My memory isn't what it was though so I stand to be corrected with proof of this. Many thanks in advance.