[TheJacko2000]

Let's get something clear. There are no wing backs either RWB or LWB they are wide midfielders in this 343 system. We need to educate ourselves. Football is evolving and we need to evolve with it.

We need a central striker as a matter of urgency.

They are clearly wing backs...

For wide midfielders see Dwight Gayle 

[iwastherein68]

They are clearly wing backs...

For wide midfielders see Dwight Gayle 

Thats a gud un Jacko

[baggie82]

To those who think our squad is too weak, bear in mind that: Palmer, Kipre, Ajayi, Reach, Sawyers, Quevin Moises Castro, Snodgrass, Philips, Zohore and Tulloch are our back-up players for the subs bench and reserves. That eleven could do quite well in the championship on their own right and they are second choice as things stand. So we are not as thread bare as a few imply.

I think the key is to rest everyone save the U23s for the league cup and to pray we keep the injuries to a minimal. Remember, we are planning on how we deal with the games from this weekend coming to January, not until May. In the new year we get to buy and sell again.

Of course if MP stays and gets brought back into the team from September onwards then we are completely spoilt.

[iwastherein68]

The first test comes up early
Luton (Sat)
Sheff Utd (Wed)
Blackburn (Sat)

I think we will have a few needing a breather!

[johnny Cash]

The first test comes up early
Luton (Sat)
Sheff Utd (Wed)
Blackburn (Sat)

I think we will have a few needing a breather!

I think we get a slight early advantage that Luton play in the EFL cup on the Tuesday, whereas we will get an extra week on the training ground.

[MarkW]

If we want to get really technical, we could say that positions are really outdated and over-simplified ways of putting players on a piece of paper, and no two players will play the same way even whilst playing in the same position. A good example of this is the fact that Billy Jones and Criag Dawson both played right back for us, but obviously have different sets of skills and will therefore accomplish different things if played there.

Equally, formations are fluid and change depending on who has the ball, and what state the match is in. If a deep lying midfielder goes between the centre backs to collect the ball, are they then a centre back? Most would answer no.

The problem is that if I'm trying to talk about a player, it's difficult to have a conversation if I don't use familiar terms.

To that end, I think wing back is a good enough term here. Furlong and Townsend will be asked to provide width when attacking, and defend the widest channel when we're in the defensive phase (transition may well be different).

[Atomic]

If we want to get really technical, we could say that positions are really outdated and over-simplified ways of putting players on a piece of paper,

I dont disagree with that. I certainly think the modern game has evolved enough to outdate terms like wingers and to an extent Full backs, wing backs, CB's, especially in a 343.

Furlong and Townsends starting positions will be no deeper than Mowatt or Livermore's. The three lads at the back are there to do the defending but the wider two are off central and are best referred to as defenders.

Grant and Diangana arent wingers they are forwards.

Basically you have defenders (3) CM's (2), wide mids (2) and forwards (3). Hence 343.

[Standaman]

Squad

Updated https://docs.google.com/document/d/1aIdEpp_djK9s8DmZxUa1m3I4X9hpv-gSFz9EuHNSiKk/edit

From last night's inclusions will do so again for any inclusions against Luton. I have also included a flag on the contracts and age of player. Green = Peak age (under 35 for keepers, under 30 for CB's and under 28 for all other outfield players) with a contract that expires while the player is still. Amber = currently peak age but contract expires post peak) Red = Post Peak.

Generally a good squad has the bulk of the players in Green some Amber and no more than 3 in the red but if the Red's are on short term contracts this is generally okay. While this would have looked a lot worse a few years ago it still isn't great and the last round of contract extensions have made it worse.

We probably need an additional Centre Back ideally left footed but it is cover. Clarke's absence resulted in everyone shuffling across and Kipre filling in. Would be a lot happier to see Bartley centrally and O'Shea on the right and left footed replacement on the left. The only starter hire is Centre Forward.

System

3-4-3 don't think it is going to change ever. The flaw defensively is the space behind the wing backs both goals came from that area of the pitch and Bournemouth tried to exploit it endlessly but generally didn't and gave us the ball a lot in trying to do so.

Tactics

It combines intense pressing with a great deal of verticality. The ball nearly always goes forwards and on the evidence of last night that is at the expense of quality in possession. I think post match that commented that the quality on the ball had to improve and times the players were too frenetic.

The press was generally on paper Bournemouth are one of the best equipped teams to play through the press by and large they were reduced to playing long balls over the press.

I think we can see a clear pattern of play a reasonably well formed first XI there won't be masses of chopping and changing. 



 

[WorcsWBA]

We probably need an additional Centre Back ideally left footed but it is cover. Clarke's absence resulted in everyone shuffling across and Kipre filling in. Would be a lot happier to see Bartley centrally and O'Shea on the right and left footed replacement on the left. The only starter hire is Centre Forward.

I disagree with deliberately signing cover as a general strategy because the squad doesn't improve in quality if you keep doing that. In addition to the positions you've mentioned, I believe we definitely need another central midfielder plus a second forward of some kind. Anyone who leaves will also need to be replaced. What funds are available remains to be seen of course.

I think we can see a clear pattern of play a reasonably well formed first XI there won't be masses of chopping and changing.

I think that would require great levels of fitness for what's going to be a gruelling season. Barnsley were able to have 5 subs last season (not sure if this was the case for the entire season?), but we'll only be able to use 3. Therefore, I suspect there will need to be more in the way of squad rotation.

[Standaman]

As ever I'm looking at

a)  What the Coach is doing/saying
b)  What is likely to happen

There is a clear first choice in place in most spots maybe 9/11. There will be in rotation through games less in the starting spots. The squad won't be much bigger than the current 24/25.

Personally I would never sign depth signings but we have already had that conversation concerning promoting Under 23's and I know I am on a completely different page to most posters. However I suspect Ismael does not look at the current squad in the  negative light that most fans regard it.

I doubt we will be making more than 2 or 3 signings between now and the end of the window. The one player that might move is Sawyers but I absolutely don't think there is any market for or any desire on the part of the club to do much trading. 

[alex1]

The way we are setting up to play, I think we have to be prepared for a fair number of goals conceded this season. Yes, we can always tighten up, but if the team is moving up and down the pitch, its going to be easier for opponents to find gaps. Playing the Pulis way meant defenders hold their deep defensive positions in numbers, but as we know, that goes at the expense of support for our forward(s). It also has a similar entertainment value to watching paint dry. 

[WorcsWBA]

The way we are setting up to play, I think we have to be prepared for a fair number of goals conceded this season. Yes, we can always tighten up, but if the team is moving up and down the pitch, its going to be easier for opponents to find gaps.

The most relevant statistic we can look at in this regard is Barnsley last season. After Valerien joined them they played 40 games, winning 23 of them and conceding 41 goals. Not at all bad defensively in other words.

[LiamTheBaggie]

The way are setting up to play, I think we have to be prepared for a fair number of goals conceded this season. Yes, we can always tighten up, but if the team is moving up and down the pitch, its going to be easier for opponents to find gaps.

Only 7 sides conceded fewer goals than Barnsley last season - four of those 7 finished directly above Barnsley

Only 7 sides scored more than Barnsley last season - 3 of those sides finished directly above them.

I would like o think our front three will have a relatively successful season as I think they suit this way of playing.

I do accept that there will be gaps in behind but the record at Barnsley was defensively very good - not sure whether our centre halves suit this way of playing but time will soon tell.

You are correct though - supporters will need to be patient.

[liverbaggie]

Seems to me with our new set up that we're open to a ball over the top so we need fast back 3 and a fast moving gk

[alex1]

Seems to me with our new set up that we're open to a ball over the top so we need fast back 3 and a fast moving gk

Absolutely. The back 3 need to get back very fast into position.  But my point is, its much easier to mark opposition when you are waiting for them than when you are chasing back at full speed.
That said, I wouldn't want to go back to Pulis football in a million years.   

[WorcsWBA]

As ever I'm looking at

a)  What the Coach is doing/saying
b)  What is likely to happen

There is a clear first choice in place in most spots maybe 9/11. There will be in rotation through games less in the starting spots. The squad won't be much bigger than the current 24/25.

Going by the document that you're usefully maintaining, the squad currently consists of 22 players and that's because you've recently added Ingram and Tulloch to it, both of whom are unproven at any level, and 3 goalkeepers. An E&S article published today is interesting in this regard:

"Last season all EFL clubs were allowed to make five substitutions in a game – a rule that was brought in following the Covid-enforced break. Ismael utilised that rule while in charge of Barnsley with the boss regularly making five changes in a game and often switching all three of his front players. Now, though, the five substitutions rule has been scrapped with the English Football League returning to the traditional three. And Ismael says that means players will need to be rotated if they are to cope with the demands of his high-pressing game:

'We need to manage it differently. This isn’t last season, last season there were 20 players in the squad and five substitutes – it was easier for me to have that rotation and to keep the pace high. This season we need to manage it game to game, maybe to rotate some players, especially when you play Saturday-Tuesday-Saturday.

We will see, but we’ll need every player and it’s important that every player stays focused, waits on his chance and, when it comes, gives 100 per cent'".

As Valerien has repeatedly said that having one player misfiring undermines his entire style of play, our squad needs to have proper, quality depth to it IMO. We're also going to have players either having Covid or self-isolating at times of course.

[johnny Cash]

I didnt realise we only named 6 subs until I read it in another post.

We are very light on the ground. If we attempt to get through to January as we are, I think we will regret it.

I think we need a centre mid and a striker minimum.

[Hull Baggie]

I didnt realise we only named 6 subs until I read it in another post.

We are very light on the ground. If we attempt to get through to January as we are, I think we will regret it.

I think we need a centre mid and a striker minimum.

don't forget we had Clarke, Snodgrass, Reach, De Castro and Gardner- Hicks all unavailable who would have added to bench if not started.

We do need a goalscoring centre forward though....and an upgrade on Livermore would be good.

[johnny Cash]

don't forget we had Clarke, Snodgrass, Reach, De Castro and Gardner- Hicks all unavailable who would have added to bench if not started.

We do need a goalscoring centre forward though....and an upgrade on Livermore would be good.

I had forgotten about Snodgrass. Castro, Gardner Hicks, Ingram and Tulloch should be the players supplementing the 18 though in my opinion, not those who have to fill the match day squad everyweek.

People seem in agreement on the striker at least, but we look like we are going to have a massive reliance on Mowatt, not just as a starter but to adhere to the tactical blue print.  Castro may be the answer, but its a lot to ask a guy whos never played competitively league football to step in to such an important position and show the consistency we will need.

[BigFrank20]

As I said in the matchday thread, Bournemouth were very clearly rattled by our tactics and at times had to abandon their own plans in order to counter the constant pressure on their midfield and back 3/4   
They clearly knew what VI was going to send us out to do and probably planned accordingly but even so the Baggies intensity, at times, lead to many moments of panic in the Bournemouth ranks and which then led to them resorting to aimlessly lobbing the ball forward just to relieve the pressure
Bring more of it on I say and trust in VI and the players to have the fitness levels necessary sorted
The midweek game against Sheffield after the Luton game will be the telling one that informs us about his possible rotational plans and players up to (or not) a couple of high intensity games a week
COYB

[Albionic]

As I said in the matchday thread, Bournemouth were very clearly rattled by our tactics and at times had to abandon their own plans in order to counter the constant pressure on their midfield and back 3/4   
They clearly knew what VI was going to send us out to do and probably planned accordingly but even so the Baggies intensity, at times, lead to many moments of panic in the Bournemouth ranks and which then led to them resorting to aimlessly lobbing the ball forward just to relieve the pressure
Bring more of it on I say and trust in VI and the players to have the fitness levels necessary sorted
The midweek game against Sheffield after the Luton game will be the telling one that informs us about his possible rotational plans and players up to (or not) a couple of high intensity games a week
COYB

I Hope our physios / fitness and analysis teams are upto it as well, they will need to anticipate potential issues before they happen.
Its also pretty clear that IV will have to compromise somewhat as he cannot utilise 5 subs as he did at Barnsley. Quite how this compromise manifests itself will be interesting to see.

[smethwickw]

Unless we bring in another 3/4 players then I fear we may end up like Leeds and run out of steam. Val talks about rotation but we have very little to rotate with at the moment!

[OhBilics]

Unless we bring in another 3/4 players then I fear we may end up like Leeds and run out of steam. Val talks about rotation but we have very little to rotate with at the moment!

With the size of our squad the only rotation we'll get is if we sit them all on swivel chairs on the goal line.

[Jeremy Roland Peace]

As I said in the matchday thread, Bournemouth were very clearly rattled by our tactics and at times had to abandon their own plans in order to counter the constant pressure on their midfield and back 3/4   
They clearly knew what VI was going to send us out to do and probably planned accordingly but even so the Baggies intensity, at times, lead to many moments of panic in the Bournemouth ranks and which then led to them resorting to aimlessly lobbing the ball forward just to relieve the pressure
Bring more of it on I say and trust in VI and the players to have the fitness levels necessary sorted
The midweek game against Sheffield after the Luton game will be the telling one that informs us about his possible rotational plans and players up to (or not) a couple of high intensity games a week
COYB

totally agree with this, bournemouth had a spell after they scored where our intensity dropped a little and they were able to play their game.

once our heads were up again we straight back at them.

only way i could describe our style at one point was harassment, it unsettled the bournemouth back line. watching some games over the weekend those teams that like to play it out from the back or across the back will be in for a rough time against us.

[TheJacko2000]

We're a serious injury to Mowatt away from this whole thing falling apart. We need another central midfielder,  imo before anything else.