Author Topic: Alan Irvine  (Read 1234785 times)

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maccbaggie

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2775 on: September 17, 2014, 09:58:39 PM »
You're correct it isn't all about statistics. You are conveniently missing out the fact that for a club with one of the biggest budgets they were fighting off winding up proceedings off the field. Not all Wednesday fans will say he is their worst manager in the same way that not all Albion fans will agree that Megson was better than Mowbray.
The point being made is that where we are now, his history is irrelevant (and debatable  :D), and what happens here is what matters.
Except this point is hugely flawed, because a manager's history is extremely relevant- it's the single best indicator of how a manager is likely to perform at future clubs.

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2776 on: September 17, 2014, 10:08:28 PM »
Vorwärts die Breiten Hosen !

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2777 on: September 17, 2014, 10:09:16 PM »
He had quite a lot towards the end of the reign.

Didn't take long for Mandaric to make the right decision and sack him off after something what must have been no wins in six  :D

He finally got some money in January 2011, but the new players couldn't have played much before he got sacked on 3 February.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 10:15:36 PM by Quakes Fan »

VVVAlbion

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2778 on: September 17, 2014, 10:12:23 PM »
He had quite a lot towards the end of the reign.

Didn't take long for Mandaric to make the right decision and sack him off after something what must have been no wins in six  :D
He bought 5 players in January and was sacked on 6 February.  Given lots of time to gel  :D

One of the five was playing at the club until last season, another is still there and playing regularly.
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VVVAlbion

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2779 on: September 17, 2014, 10:20:58 PM »
Except this point is hugely flawed, because a manager's history is extremely relevant- it's the single best indicator of how a manager is likely to perform at future clubs.
It is an indicator but you can not compare Sheff Wednesday in 2010 to West Bromwich Albion in 2014.
Tony Mowbray did wonders at West Brom but that was not replicated at Celtic or Middlesbrough.
Di Matteo did well to get another managers job after his time at the Albion but won the Champions League at Chelsea and has been unemployed since 2012.
Alex Ferguson failed at St Mirren but went on to become one of the most successful managers in the world.
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bagstaff

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2780 on: September 17, 2014, 10:29:54 PM »
It is an indicator but you can not compare Sheff Wednesday in 2010 to West Bromwich Albion in 2014.
Tony Mowbray did wonders at West Brom but that was not replicated at Celtic or Middlesbrough.
Di Matteo did well to get another managers job after his time at the Albion but won the Champions League at Chelsea and has been unemployed since 2012.
Alex Ferguson failed at St Mirren but went on to become one of the most successful managers in the world.

so what exactly is your criteria for appointing a manager - put all the names in a hat, close your eyes and pick one out, because it matters not what they have done in the past???

of course I am being a bit flippant there, but surely there has to be something that is taken into account?
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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2781 on: September 17, 2014, 11:27:55 PM »
so what exactly is your criteria for appointing a manager - put all the names in a hat, close your eyes and pick one out, because it matters not what they have done in the past???

of course I am being a bit flippant there, but surely there has to be something that is taken into account?

Coaching ability and managerial experience at a club similar to us would be two things I would look out for to find a potential head coach.
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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2782 on: September 17, 2014, 11:42:10 PM »
He bought 5 players in January and was sacked on 6 February.  Given lots of time to gel  :D

One of the five was playing at the club until last season, another is still there and playing regularly.

One was constantly injured last season and the other spent more time in prison than on the pitch :D
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maccbaggie

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2783 on: September 17, 2014, 11:57:56 PM »
It is an indicator but you can not compare Sheff Wednesday in 2010 to West Bromwich Albion in 2014.
Tony Mowbray did wonders at West Brom but that was not replicated at Celtic or Middlesbrough.
Di Matteo did well to get another managers job after his time at the Albion but won the Champions League at Chelsea and has been unemployed since 2012.
Alex Ferguson failed at St Mirren but went on to become one of the most successful managers in the world.
All of those managers experienced success before being hired by similar sized or bigger clubs- Mowbray at Hibs and here, Di Matteo at MK Dons and here, Ferguson at Aberdeen. Di Matteo went on to win the Champions League and Ferguson became perhaps the most successful manager in history. At least they earned the right to pick up the jobs that they did. The fact that Mowbray failed at Celtic and Middlesborough despite his previous successes doesn't prove there is no relationship between success at different clubs- it only suggests that even previously successful managers may fail at future clubs. That in itself can't say anything about Irvine's likely success here, but it certainly doesn't champion his case in any way. There aren't many cases where a manager fails, twice, and then is suddenly a success at a higher level. Although this may have happened once or twice, I think it's fair to say that positive signs would at least be needed to warrant time and patience with such an appointment- what are the positive signs from Irvine's first five games? We've probably got progressively worse over the course of them.

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2784 on: September 17, 2014, 11:58:36 PM »
Coaching ability and managerial experience at a club similar to us would be two things I would look out for to find a potential head coach.

Neither would be my top priority. I'd look for a brilliant man to lead our team on match days. A highly intelligent, creative man with the natural talent and competitiveness to take on the top managerial talent in the prem.

THEN after that I'd look to experience and coaching ability. Those two can be had through the support, that is the job of the #2's imo.

I don't know if any of you play chess, but we are in the top division and we need a Grandmaster, not a club level coach to lead us.

We are plagued with too many #2's throughout the organization, this is obvious in our approach and strategic thinking which is characterized by a distint lack of brilliance atm.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 12:00:30 AM by GrGr »

maccbaggie

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2785 on: September 18, 2014, 12:01:03 AM »
Coaching ability and managerial experience at a club similar to us would be two things I would look out for to find a potential head coach.
Presumably the degree of success within their managerial experience would be the most important aspect of their experience? Otherwise having decades of failure would qualify someone as a good manager.

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2786 on: September 18, 2014, 07:50:37 AM »
One was constantly injured last season and the other spent more time in prison than on the pitch :D
Neither of which was down to Alan Irvine. The point being made and missed, two of the five signings he made in the January 2010 window before getting sacked in February,  in such an unsuccessful period are/were still on the books as of the end of last season.
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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2787 on: September 18, 2014, 08:04:07 AM »
so what exactly is your criteria for appointing a manager - put all the names in a hat, close your eyes and pick one out, because it matters not what they have done in the past???

of course I am being a bit flippant there, but surely there has to be something that is taken into account?
Do you believe that is how he was appointed?  I am guessing that Jeremy Peace, as a very astute businessman, had a robust recruitment process involving "due diligence" and appropriate interviews.I wwould also hope, and expect in the case of Alan Irvine and any other candidate, that he examined their past history and made judgements based on fact rather than emotion. In the same way that very few of the supporters know what is happening at the Albion, very few Sheff Wed fans can know what was happening at Sheff Wed; they can only base their judgements on what they see happen on the pitch on a Saturday.  Yes, probably the most important aspect of the job, but we have fans slagging off the guy for not picking an injured centre half or midfielder.  Do you know the position behind the scenes at Sheff W during his reign?
Just trying to bring a balance to the witch hunt.
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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2788 on: September 18, 2014, 08:47:57 AM »
Do you believe that is how he was appointed?  I am guessing that Jeremy Peace, as a very astute businessman, had a robust recruitment process involving "due diligence" and appropriate interviews.I wwould also hope, and expect in the case of Alan Irvine and any other candidate, that he examined their past history and made judgements based on fact rather than emotion. In the same way that very few of the supporters know what is happening at the Albion, very few Sheff Wed fans can know what was happening at Sheff Wed; they can only base their judgements on what they see happen on the pitch on a Saturday.  Yes, probably the most important aspect of the job, but we have fans slagging off the guy for not picking an injured centre half or midfielder.  Do you know the position behind the scenes at Sheff W during his reign?
Just trying to bring a balance to the witch hunt.
If we have to dismiss conjecture and stick to facts to achieve balance, then the fact of the matter is that at present we are poor defensively (conceded 8 ) and weak going forward (scored 3, only 1 of which was from open play) and are subsequently in the bottom 3. Surely the coaching staff have to be accountable for that??
Ok, we may improve when new signings finally appear, but that is mere conjecture!
« Last Edit: September 18, 2014, 10:46:45 AM by Quakes Fan »

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2789 on: September 18, 2014, 09:08:21 AM »

Is there a sleeping tablet available where I will wake up once he's gone?

The wait is just far too much agony and talking about him winds me up... :(

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2790 on: September 18, 2014, 10:18:30 AM »
Do you believe that is how he was appointed?  I am guessing that Jeremy Peace, as a very astute businessman, had a robust recruitment process involving "due diligence" and appropriate interviews.I wwould also hope, and expect in the case of Alan Irvine and any other candidate, that he examined their past history and made judgements based on fact rather than emotion. In the same way that very few of the supporters know what is happening at the Albion, very few Sheff Wed fans can know what was happening at Sheff Wed; they can only base their judgements on what they see happen on the pitch on a Saturday.  Yes, probably the most important aspect of the job, but we have fans slagging off the guy for not picking an injured centre half or midfielder.  Do you know the position behind the scenes at Sheff W during his reign?
Just trying to bring a balance to the witch hunt.
i can safely say before the interviews began with AI JP's reaction was very similar to ours and that is fact

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2791 on: September 18, 2014, 10:45:23 AM »
I wouldn't be surprised if AI was be kept on until the end of the season & beyond for the simple reason JP head hunted him & would look a fool if he had to sack him now.
Hope I'm wrong & AI proves me wrong & turns it all a round.

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2792 on: September 18, 2014, 10:51:36 AM »
I think paul lambert is an average manager at best, but even he had the "balls" to make 3 changes at once when we were pasting his side. can you forsee any circumstance where AI would do that?
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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2793 on: September 18, 2014, 10:57:43 AM »
I wouldn't be surprised if AI was be kept on until the end of the season & beyond for the simple reason JP head hunted him & would look a fool if he had to sack him now.
Hope I'm wrong & AI proves me wrong & turns it all a round.


If he takes us down and is still there next season i wont be renewing
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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2794 on: September 18, 2014, 10:59:10 AM »
I think paul lambert is an average manager at best, but even he had the "balls" to make 3 changes at once when we were pasting his side. can you forsee any circumstance where AI would do that?
If we go a goal up early doors he might bring on 3 defenders.

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2795 on: September 18, 2014, 11:02:34 AM »
I wouldn't be surprised if AI was be kept on until the end of the season & beyond for the simple reason JP head hunted him & would look a fool if he had to sack him now.
Hope I'm wrong & AI proves me wrong & turns it all a round.
not a chance that will happen and JP didn't head hunt as I've stated in previous post,

if he turns it round and quick he'll stay if he doesn't he'll go

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2796 on: September 18, 2014, 11:03:27 AM »
I wouldn't be surprised if AI was be kept on until the end of the season & beyond for the simple reason JP head hunted him & would look a fool if he had to sack him now.
Hope I'm wrong & AI proves me wrong & turns it all a round.

Do you think JP cares enough about anyone's opinion to lose a substantial portion of his net worth rather than admit a mistake? I'm quite sure he will sack anyone the second he concludes it would make the difference between staying up and relegation.

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2797 on: September 18, 2014, 11:35:01 AM »
Do you think JP cares enough about anyone's opinion to lose a substantial portion of his net worth rather than admit a mistake? I'm quite sure he will sack anyone the second he concludes it would make the difference between staying up and relegation.

I could not agree more, Quakes.

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2798 on: September 18, 2014, 12:04:32 PM »

If he takes us down and is still there next season i wont be renewing

Like the time you weren't going to renew because the Halfords wasn't to be redeveloped?  Or the time you weren't going to renew if Pepe Mel was to be sacked? Or the time you weren't going to renew because AI was appointed.  Come on mate, JP knows your future renewals are money in the bank  :)
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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #2799 on: September 18, 2014, 12:22:34 PM »
Like the time you weren't going to renew because the Halfords wasn't to be redeveloped?  Or the time you weren't going to renew if Pepe Mel was to be sacked? Or the time you weren't going to renew because AI was appointed.  Come on mate, JP knows your future renewals are money in the bank  :)


Indeed this will most likely be the final straw,the tip of the iceberg
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