Author Topic: Alan Irvine  (Read 1234764 times)

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OldburyWBA

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1350 on: August 10, 2014, 11:45:40 PM »
I'll give anyone a chance regardless of whether for me personally I think its the right choice but I fear for us this season. By the end of September we will have played 6 games, 4 of those need to be targeted for victories (Sunderland, Southampton, Swansea, Burnley) with the other 2 (Everton & Spurs) aiming for a minimum of a point. If we can get 9 points then maybe it will set us on our way and we as fans can relax a bit.
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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1351 on: August 11, 2014, 06:05:34 AM »
This appointment is do deflating I am dreading the new season, not felt like this since Bobby Gould was in charge as we all know what happened then!  I cant see anything other than a home defeat on Sunday, 0-2 is a good shout. Oh how I would love to be wrong, but this is the real world.

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1352 on: August 11, 2014, 06:39:23 AM »
me too mate - I can already feel my stomach churning over as I wait to see the result of that Sunderland match - hoping for the best but sadly expecting the worst, (with even worse to follow).

JP has made a decision NONE of us understand - lets hope it turns out to be inspired rather than mental. 

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1353 on: August 11, 2014, 06:43:38 AM »

I, like others, have tried to support Alan Irvine although I thought from the outset that it was a ridiculous appointment.

Yes, Irvine has had to deal with injuries but there is no method, no pace, no idea and the defending is pathetic.

The team looks devoid of ideas and the books stops with the coaching staff.

What worries me is that JP will give Irvine at least 10 games so that people can't say 'I told you so' if he were to sack him after four or five.

Irvine is a good coach, of that I've no doubt.

West Bromwich Albion 'Manager'? Nah not for me, thank you.........

BB74

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1354 on: August 11, 2014, 07:22:16 AM »
I, like others, have tried to support Alan Irvine although I thought from the outset that it was a ridiculous appointment.

Yes, Irvine has had to deal with injuries but there is no method, no pace, no idea and the defending is pathetic.

The team looks devoid of ideas and the books stops with the coaching staff.

What worries me is that JP will give Irvine at least 10 games so that people can't say 'I told you so' if he were to sack him after four or five.

Irvine is a good coach, of that I've no doubt.

West Bromwich Albion 'Manager'? Nah not for me, thank you.........

We haven't had a 'Manager' since Tony Mowbray.

Ste1987

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1355 on: August 11, 2014, 07:30:47 AM »
We haven't had a 'Manager' since Tony Mowbray.

Exactly my point.

Although we appoint Head Coaches, you still need somebody who's going to make managerial decisions at crucial times.

I'm not interested how good a coach he is, we already know that.

I want to know if he'll be able to make the BIG decisions on a Saturday afternoon where his coaching methods/skills count for very little.

Invariably, thus far, I believe the answer to that will be no.

Roy H was head coach, but was a Manger in the past and knew exactly what was required when things were going wrong.

You can't keep appointing 'Number 2' type coaches. It simply doesn't work. That's the point I'm making.

Agree????

BB74

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1356 on: August 11, 2014, 07:42:05 AM »
Exactly my point.

Although we appoint Head Coaches, you still need somebody who's going to make managerial decisions at crucial times.

I'm not interested how good a coach he is, we already know that.

I want to know if he'll be able to make the BIG decisions on a Saturday afternoon where his coaching methods/skills count for very little.

Invariably, thus far, I believe the answer to that will be no.

Roy H was head coach, but was a Manger in the past and knew exactly what was required when things were going wrong.

You can't keep appointing 'Number 2' type coaches. It simply doesn't work. That's the point I'm making.

Agree????

You were implying that Irvine is Manager though by saying 'West Bromwich Albion Managed, nah not for me'

Like it or not, there aren't many 'Managers' out there that want to or would fit into our 'Head Coach' system. Hodgson fit the system because he had to repair his CV after the dismal Liverpool stint.

The Manager position is split into 3 at the Albion, Burton and Garlick do 2/3's and Irvine does 1/3. That leaves Irvine time to ponder about those big decisions.

I'm not an Irvine fan at all but think you aren't completely clear on the current system at the Albion.

Who in your opinion would fit into our system then? Who would have been your choice?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 07:43:47 AM by BB74 »

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1357 on: August 11, 2014, 07:47:09 AM »
Manager or Head Coach, doesn't really matter. AI picks the team and is therefore responsible for the players, formations and results.
Even Cillit would have banged that one in..

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1358 on: August 11, 2014, 08:02:29 AM »
Too much made of the head coach/manager differential . If you read Redknapps book for example he says how little outside of players and playing matters managers get involved with these days compared to earlier in his career. To me head coach is a bit of a cop out and the very name of the title would seem to dilute authority.
          Whichever way you dress it up i believe Irvine to be a very poor appointment.The minimum i would expect to see from his teams in pre season is good defensive organisation, by all accounts there has been little sign of this having been unable to keep clean sheets against even the most moderate of opposition >:(
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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1359 on: August 11, 2014, 08:02:34 AM »
Manager or Head Coach, doesn't really matter. AI picks the team and is therefore responsible for the players, formations and results.

It does matter though:

A Manager runs the club from top to bottom, puts in his own scouting network, manages the budget and everything.

A Head Coach tells Burton where he feels the squad is lacking, the player database is then referred to. Head Coach has no say on where the money goes, doesn't have a scouting team, can't bring in his own staff. The Head Coach just trains and picks the team.

The sooner everyone knows the difference between the two roles the better.

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1360 on: August 11, 2014, 08:17:03 AM »
It does matter though:

A Manager runs the club from top to bottom, puts in his own scouting network, manages the budget and everything.

A Head Coach tells Burton where he feels the squad is lacking, the player database is then referred to. Head Coach has no say on where the money goes, doesn't have a scouting team, can't bring in his own staff. The Head Coach just trains and picks the team.

The sooner everyone knows the difference between the two roles the better.

I do know the difference - I'm saying that when those players cross the white line, he holds the same responsiblities as a proper designated 'Manager'.

If thats not the case, then me or you may as well do it because nobody will be responsible for anything.

Burton/Garlick/Day/Irvine and the likes will blame each other.

Irvine proved that with the 'I didn't see Ideye aside from a DVD' quote.

That translates to 'If Ideye is s**t, don't blame me'.

Ridiculous model to work in.

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1361 on: August 11, 2014, 08:23:12 AM »
I do know the difference - I'm saying that when those players cross the white line, he holds the same responsiblities as a proper designated 'Manager'.

If thats not the case, then me or you may as well do it because nobody will be responsible for anything.

Burton/Garlick/Day/Irvine and the likes will blame each other.

Irvine proved that with the 'I didn't see Ideye aside from a DVD' quote.

That translates to 'If Ideye is s**t, don't blame me'.

Ridiculous model to work in.

I said that a few months ago to be honest. Theres too many chiefs, we need someone out there to call the shots. There doesnt seem to be any ownership overall with clear authority because the role of Manager has been watered down.

If a player is out of line, who gives him a rollocking? Irvine? Then what if Burton gets called in and agrees with the player?

As you say, it's ridiculous. However, it is what it is and that is why people need to get their head around the different roles.


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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1362 on: August 11, 2014, 08:26:03 AM »
I said that a few months ago to be honest. Theres too many chiefs, we need someone out there to call the shots. There doesnt seem to be any ownership overall with clear authority because the role of Manager has been watered down.

If a player is out of line, who gives him a rollocking? Irvine? Then what if Burton gets called in and agrees with the player?

As you say, it's ridiculous. However, it is what it is and that is why people need to get their head around the different roles.

100% agree mate. Clarity is important in any business.

Even more so with so much spotlight and focus from the outside like in football.

Burton seems to have moved himself out of the spotlight somewhat in the past three weeks (in fact, since Mervyn Day was appointed). I don't know if anybody else has noticed this.

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1363 on: August 11, 2014, 08:35:08 AM »
I do feel for him but i am dreading Saturday.I cant see the atmosphere being positive.Its not his fault but he shouldnt have been appointed.Like before too many square pegs and all that
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 08:41:41 AM by PepeMel »

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1364 on: August 11, 2014, 08:51:08 AM »
I, like others, have tried to support Alan Irvine although I thought from the outset that it was a ridiculous appointment.

Yes, Irvine has had to deal with injuries but there is no method, no pace, no idea and the defending is pathetic.

The team looks devoid of ideas and the books stops with the coaching staff.

What worries me is that JP will give Irvine at least 10 games so that people can't say 'I told you so' if he were to sack him after four or five.

Irvine is a good coach, of that I've no doubt.

West Bromwich Albion 'Manager'? Nah not for me, thank you.........

Eh? You haven't tried to support him at all. The season hasn't even started and you're posting this.

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1365 on: August 11, 2014, 08:53:13 AM »
Eh? You haven't tried to support him at all. The season hasn't even started and your posting this.

Oh so you think everything is ok do you?

I hope I'm proved wrong but if the past three games are anything to go by, next Saturday is going to be a laugh.....for all the wrong reasons!!

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1366 on: August 11, 2014, 08:55:04 AM »
Oh so you think everything is ok do you?

I hope I'm proved wrong but if the past three games are anything to go by, next Saturday is going to be a laugh.....for all the wrong reasons!!

Well i'd at least wait until the season, y'know, actually starts.

Also worth noting that every single one of your posts is about Irvine (negatively) which is in itself quite odd given your apparent efforts to support him.

It seems to me there's a significant section of the support desperate for him to fail just because they so desperately want to be able to say "I told you so". Notably usually the same people who refuse to give any credit at all to Clarke but thought Mel was a saviour.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 08:58:12 AM by Dan »

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1367 on: August 11, 2014, 08:59:34 AM »
Well i'd at least wait until the season, y'know, actually starts.

Also worth noting that every single one of your posts is about Irvine (negatively) which is in itself quite odd given your apparent efforts to support him.

All of my posts are not all directed at Alan Irvine at all - there are other names on there that I've mentioned.

As for supporting him, AI will get every bit of support from me this Saturday and beyond.

If he gets things wrong, I will say so - like he already has done.

Why say 4 weeks ago 3-52 was the best formation then play a flat back four in every game since.

And don't even say about injuries. Baird/Wisdom/O'Neil/Olsson and Dawson are all available to try and work on the shape.

Has he done it? No.

I do feel for AI in some respects but I won't accept people blindly defending him out of sympathy.

He gets paid and paid very well. Therefore he needs to be getting the big decisions right accordingly.

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1368 on: August 11, 2014, 09:03:00 AM »
All of my posts are not all directed at Alan Irvine at all - there are other names on there that I've mentioned.

As for supporting him, AI will get every bit of support from me this Saturday and beyond.

If he gets things wrong, I will say so - like he already has done.

Why say 4 weeks ago 3-52 was the best formation then play a flat back four in every game since.

And don't even say about injuries. Baird/Wisdom/O'Neil/Olsson and Dawson are all available to try and work on the shape.

Has he done it? No.

I do feel for AI in some respects but I won't accept people blindly defending him out of sympathy.

He gets paid and paid very well. Therefore he needs to be getting the big decisions right accordingly.

He didn't say 3-5-2 was our best formation at all. He was clearly asked if he'd use it and just said on occassions we might.

And again, friendlies, not a big deal, not a deal at all actually. As close to irrelevant as results and performances get. Though with each passing season the importance of friendlies seems to increase to fans.

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1369 on: August 11, 2014, 09:42:15 AM »
Pre season matches are there for a reason. They help teams with fitness and they should also be used for sorting out formations e.g who marks who and where at set pieces. Much better to do this in a competitive environment rather than just on a practice pitch.
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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1370 on: August 11, 2014, 09:56:32 AM »
On a slightly different tack.  Accepting that friendlies are ultimately meaningless, that we have injuries and that some players have yet to appear for various other issues such as work permits and visas.  Accepting also that (we hope) there will be more signings.

Given the above, has anyone so far seen any signs of a positive impact of AI's coaching on players, organisation, tactics etc.  Personally, I can't see any signs so far.  Dawson, in particular, seems to have gone backwards, and given his wish to go to Burnley or whoever, the sooner he is offloaded (something which a few weeks ago I would have resisted)

I am not expecting miracles at the moment - but has anyone seen any positives?

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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1371 on: August 11, 2014, 09:58:16 AM »
He didn't say 3-5-2 was our best formation at all. He was clearly asked if he'd use it and just said on occassions we might.

And again, friendlies, not a big deal, not a deal at all actually. As close to irrelevant as results and performances get. Though with each passing season the importance of friendlies seems to increase to fans.
If this is true Dan, why have them in the first place?

They are important to help a team gel, get back to match fitness, trial "squad" players and prepare for the up and coming season!  You would expect to see improvement throughout the games played.

OF COURSE THEY ARE IMPORTANT!   ???
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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1372 on: August 11, 2014, 09:59:58 AM »
Too much made of the head coach/manager differential . If you read Redknapps book for example he says how little outside of players and playing matters managers get involved with these days compared to earlier in his career. To me head coach is a bit of a cop out and the very name of the title would seem to dilute authority.
          Whichever way you dress it up i believe Irvine to be a very poor appointment.The minimum i would expect to see from his teams in pre season is good defensive organisation, by all accounts there has been little sign of this having been unable to keep clean sheets against even the most moderate of opposition >:(
Redknapp wrote a book?  I thought he stated in court he couldn't write a cheque.  I think you have been done. :P

Head coach is not a cop out but defines his area of responsibility.  The suggestion appears to be that only one individual is to blame if things go wrong or can take the credit when it goes well.  Football is a team game on and off the pitch. Last year we disappointed in a number of areas and a number of people paid the price.
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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1373 on: August 11, 2014, 10:05:00 AM »
If this is true Dan, why have them in the first place?

They are important to help a team gel, get back to match fitness, trial "squad" players and prepare for the up and coming season!  You would expect to see improvement throughout the games played.

OF COURSE THEY ARE IMPORTANT!   ???

The games are important,  the results aren't necessarily. I have no doubt that things will have been learned from the games we have played to date and things will be better for them. 
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Re: Alan Irvine sacked by Albion
« Reply #1374 on: August 11, 2014, 10:12:54 AM »
I keep hearing that you cannot read to much in to friendlies and I would go along with that if we were playing well and winning. You shouldn't take to much from winning friendlies as players should be fresh, there is normally a gulf in quality and you cannot replicate the atmosphere in a competitive game.

I don't think its the same when you are losing and playing so badly though against the same lesser sides (bar Porto). I don't see how you will get or can even expect a sudden improvement.