Author Topic: Anything England Football  (Read 773418 times)

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SmethDan

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3425 on: April 20, 2021, 02:04:40 AM »
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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3426 on: May 02, 2021, 09:34:35 AM »
What are people's views on Phil Foden?

I've seen a lot written and a lot of social media chatter about Foden in recent months, the majority of which argues that he should now be the first name on Southgate's team sheet, that he is a once in a generation talent, that he is head and shoulders above anyone else available to England and that anyone who says otherwise doesn't understand football.

I don't know why, but it is becoming one of my bug bears this season. Am I wrong to think Foden shouldn't be a shoe in for England and that the talk of him being far and away our best player is hyperbolic?

I'll start off by saying Foden is a wonderful player, somebody who has been managed perfectly by Guardiola (despite my initial reservations) and who I currently have in my own personal strongest England 11. He offers us something we haven't had for years in an England side and who makes us more continental.

Thing is, England now have an embarrassment of riches in our attacking play.

Jason Sancho has spent chunks of this season out injured and yet continues to tot up incredible numbers in Germany.

Jude Bellingham at 17 is spearheading Dortmund midfield.

Mason Mount has already shown amazing improvement under Tuchel and adds both goals and assists to an England side that lacks in creativity in our deeper positions.

Jack Grealish currently has more assists than any English player despite being out injured for a while now and might be the subject of an £80m move this summer.

Mason Greenwood at 18 managed 16 goals in half a season at United last year and is finding his feet again this year as one of the best ball strikers in the world game.

Marcus Rashford has future England captain written all over him.

Sterling has been a mainstay for England for the last few years an despite domestic struggles thisvuear still offers balance to the England side.

Bukayo Saka is only 19 but it already arguably Arsenals best player.

That doesn't mention what we have sitting in a theoretical England B side like James Maddison, Harvey Barnes, Hudson-Odoi, 18 year-old Harvey Elliott (who at 17 had the second most assists in the championship).

We have so many different options to pick from to support the lead striker in our wings and attacking midfield positions, am I being unreasonable to think the Foden talk is all a bit OTT? Especially given he gets to play with De Bruyne and Gundogan on a weekly basis.
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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3427 on: May 02, 2021, 10:34:59 AM »
Foden has shown moments of individual brilliance where it doesn't really matter who who is playing alongside. Looks a phenomenal talent. There are going to be some seriously good players not even in the squad. We need to embrace how good we are attacking-wise as the defence isn't even close. I'm not so sure Southgate is the man to get the best out this talent. Foden has been well managed but he's 20 now, time for him to have his chance of the likes of Sterling to go.
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johnny Cash

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3428 on: May 02, 2021, 11:13:18 AM »
The best set up for England for the foreseeable seems to be 4-2-3-1

Of the riches we have at present it seems the ‘10’ is between Foden and Mount. I’d personally include Grealish but I don’t think Southgate does and I think Maddison’s personality / behaviour will cost him. 

Bellingham will eventually play in the middle two so it’s It’s the wide attacking midfielders where the heavy competition is.  Rashford, Grealish, Sancho, Sterling, Barnes, Greenwood, Saka, Hudson Odoi.

Greenwood and Hudson Odoi shouldn’t be picked this summer but you can’t rule out the big club bias getting them in. Hudson Odoi is actually miles off it really at present compared to his competition.  Barnes I’d take, because I think he’s a bit different and more direct, but he’s definitely less glamorous than others which will mean he misses out I think.

So I think Foden is actually a choice of two and how he’s controlling city games now puts him in the driving seat.

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3429 on: May 02, 2021, 11:31:04 AM »
While I’d love Bellingham to be developed into one of the midfield 2, most scouts I’ve listened to - and the Dortmund manager it seems - see him as playing in the number 10/advanced midfielder role.
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TheJacko2000

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3430 on: May 02, 2021, 11:35:09 AM »
Southgate's insistence on 2 holding midfielders will hold back at least one of these superb talents.

All things being equal I want Grealish, Foden and Sterling as the attacking trio behind Kane, but managers love Mason Mount.
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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3431 on: May 02, 2021, 12:09:35 PM »
Southgate's insistence on 2 holding midfielders will hold back at least one of these superb talents.

All things being equal I want Grealish, Foden and Sterling as the attacking trio behind Kane, but managers love Mason Mount.

I think our lack of a top quality central midfielder is what really lets us down. I am not the greatest admirers of Henderson, Rice and Phillips. They are good players, effective for their club teams, nothing more.

I also agree with your front four.
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johnny Cash

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3432 on: May 02, 2021, 12:18:31 PM »
While I’d love Bellingham to be developed into one of the midfield 2, most scouts I’ve listened to - and the Dortmund manager it seems - see him as playing in the number 10/advanced midfielder role.

He may well do, he’s still extremely young isn’t he. When I’ve seen him play personally though he’s looked the complete central  midfielder though.

Against Seville in the champions league he “won the most duels, the most tackles, most fouled player,  had 51 touches of the ball, made eight recoveries, completed two take-ons, made two clearances and was not dribbled past once”.

So he’s certainly capable but he may just have so much talent that you want him affecting things further forwards and getting goals and assists. From an England perspective he would be amazing if he stuck with that perhaps less glamorous role.

In terms of what Jacko said, I’d probably agree with Grealish, Foden, Sterling,  but I’d be temped by Sancho for Sterling depeding on form to the end of the season. .

It will be Rashford, Mount, Sterling if fit though to begin with this summer. Managers love both Mount and Rashford, and Sterling has experience. I’d fancy performances and public pressure for Foden to see him force his was in though as the tournament goes on.

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3433 on: May 02, 2021, 12:36:05 PM »
It is all a little bit too soon for Bellingham but he is going to be a huge plus for England. He looks like he is developing into one of those very rare midfielders who is going to be equally adept in any central midfield role and that level of versatility just makes team selection so much easier. Whatever England are short of in the central midfield Bellingham will be the answer and all likelihood he will justify selection as a 6,8 or 10.

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MarkW

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3434 on: May 25, 2021, 10:36:38 AM »
Squad announcement at 1pm.

Do we think Alexander-Arnold will be included?
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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3435 on: May 25, 2021, 10:43:14 AM »
It's only the provisional squad isn't it? He will make the prov squad but can't seem him making the full one sadly.

The Athletic have confirmed Ben White has made the provisional squad. Brighton fans say Webster and particularly Dunk are more deserving of a call up. It's a bit like Villa fans with their views on Konsa and Mings. I feel Southgate goes for style over substance with his central defender picks.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2021, 10:48:36 AM by Baggies »
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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3436 on: May 25, 2021, 10:46:05 AM »
It's only the provisional squad isn't it? He will make the prov squad but can't seem him making the full one sadly.

The Athletic have confirmed Ben White has made the provisional squad. Brighton fans say Webster and particularly Dunk are more deserving of a call up. It's a bit like Villa fand with their views on Konsa and Mings. I feel Southgate goes for style over substance with his central defender picks.

Konsa & Tomori should be in over both Mings & Dier, Mings is the most overrated player in the division he has at least one huge mistake in him a game and Eric Dier has had a dreadful season at Spurs and should be nowhere near the England team.

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3437 on: May 25, 2021, 10:49:03 AM »
I'll be fuming if Tomori isn't there.
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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3438 on: May 25, 2021, 12:18:53 PM »
When is the official squad announced outside of the provisionals?
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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3439 on: May 25, 2021, 12:35:20 PM »
When is the official squad announced outside of the provisionals?

Deadline is June 1st so anytime until then

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3440 on: May 25, 2021, 01:07:18 PM »
I'll be fuming if Tomori isn't there.

Guess you're going to angry then.

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3441 on: May 25, 2021, 01:10:59 PM »
Here are the 33 announced

PROVISIONAL 33-MAN ENGLAND SQUAD FOR EURO 2020

Goalkeepers: Dean Henderson (Manchester United), Sam Johnstone (West Brom), Jordan Pickford (Everton), Aaron Ramsdale (Sheffield United

Defenders: Trent Alexander-Arnold (Liverpool), Ben Chilwell (Chelsea), Conor Coady (Wolves), Ben Godfrey (Everton), Reece James (Chelsea), Harry Maguire (Manchester United), Tyrone Mings (Aston Villa), Luke Shaw (Manchester United), John Stones (Manchester City, Kieran Trippier (Atletico Madrid), Kyle Walker (Manchester City), Ben White (Brighton)

Midfielders: Jude Bellingham (Borussia Dortmund), Jordan Henderson (Liverpool), Jesse Lingard (West Ham), Mason Mount (Chelsea), Kalvin Phillips (Leeds), Declan Rice (West Ham), James Ward-Prowse (Southampton)

Forwards: Dominic Calvert-Lewin (Everton), Phil Foden (Man City), Jack Grealish (Aston Villa), Mason Greenwood (Manchester United), Harry Kane (Tottenham), Marcus Rashford (Manchester United), Bukayo Saka (Arsenal), Jadon Sancho (Borussia Dortmund), Raheem Sterling (Man City), Ollie Watkins (Aston Villa)

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3442 on: May 25, 2021, 03:35:00 PM »
I’m not having Reece James as better than TAA.

For me TAA should be going and he probably starting the group games. We certainly don’t need 4 right backs.   

I don’t know how Watkins has got in over Bamford either although I expect he will be cut. Calvert Lewis can possibly count himself lucky given his form but he’s always done well for England.

Ramsdale
James
White
Lingard
Saka
Watkins
Mings


I think those are the seven I’d drop if injuries allowed.

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3443 on: May 25, 2021, 03:41:03 PM »
Graeme Jones has been added to the England coaching staff.  Unbelievable the work this bloke gets. We're definitely looking at semis as best case scenario with Southgate and now this.
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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3444 on: May 25, 2021, 04:13:45 PM »
Guess you're going to angry then.

It's just bizarre. Southgate is basically saying that Brighton' s 3rd beat centre back, Wolves third best centre back, Villas second best centre back and Eveeton's best centre back are better than an AC Milan centre half - the second best side in Italy this season.

So strange.
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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3445 on: May 25, 2021, 06:40:19 PM »
The forward options are incredible really - just a shame we cannot produce a central midfielder and centre half.

I agree with the players Johnny Cash has dropped only I would be tempted to take Ollie Watkins ahead of Dominic Calvert Lewin
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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3446 on: May 25, 2021, 06:43:15 PM »
I think we as fans fall foul of pigeonholing players as having set abilities. In reality it's very difficult to remove a player from the system they play in, as proven by the players Leeds have, or Sheffield United last season. Both have cores of players from the Championship or below, but have posted good results in recent seasons.

What this means is that a player who does well for their club may not replicate it for their country. TAA benefits from Liverpool's midfield being set up to cover as he and Robertson push up high, and that is where he has a lot of quality. However there are question marks about his 1-v-1 defending and teams like Real Madrid have looked to exploit this.

If I'm honest, I don't think I've ever knowingly seen Reece James play, but I know he's versatile and can play at RB, RWB, and RCB, so maybe that's why he's included. Likewise Ben White played a full season in defensive midfield for Leeds, and Mings can cover left back.

This gives flexibility between a back four and a back three, which I think Southgate will prioritise.
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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3447 on: May 25, 2021, 08:26:05 PM »
I’m not having Reece James as better than TAA.

For me TAA should be going and he probably starting the group games. We certainly don’t need 4 right backs.   

I don’t know how Watkins has got in over Bamford either although I expect he will be cut. Calvert Lewis can possibly count himself lucky given his form but he’s always done well for England.

Ramsdale
James
White
Lingard
Saka
Watkins
Mings


I think those are the seven I’d drop if injuries allowed.

I'd take James over Alexander_Arnold because he can defend and is able to cover 3 positions: England don't play like Liverpool. 
I'd take Sako over Shaw because he can use his right foot when necessary and is a classier player, all round.
Clearly a lot of the denigration here of Mings stems from the fact that he's a Seal but he's genuinely left sided and intelligent. If McGuire is injured, I'd take him.
Jadon Sancho was very unconvincing for the U21' tournament but they were managed by Boothroyd so maybe I'd leave him in BUT goals win tournaments and I think Watkins is a surer shot.

Graeme Jones:  well, well!  There'll be some red faces if the team gets to the final even.
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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3448 on: May 25, 2021, 08:54:59 PM »
I'd take James over Alexander_Arnold because he can defend and is able to cover 3 positions: England don't play like Liverpool. 
I'd take Sako over Shaw because he can use his right foot when necessary and is a classier player, all round.
Clearly a lot of the denigration here of Mings stems from the fact that he's a Seal but he's genuinely left sided and intelligent. If McGuire is injured, I'd take him.
Jadon Sancho was very unconvincing for the U21' tournament but they were managed by Boothroyd so maybe I'd leave him in BUT goals win tournaments and I think Watkins is a surer shot.

Graeme Jones:  well, well!  There'll be some red faces if the team gets to the final even.

I think Sako will be seen as a midfield option rather than a left back, the Official  announcements had him as a midfielder which is quite telling and Tierney is arsenals left back. Is he going to play wide left over Rashford, Foden, Grealish? I don’t think so, Sterling and Sancho can play there too if needed.

No chance Sancho is considered as one of those dropped. He’s a star at Dortmund and finished the season very well. I’d start him over Sterling at the moment. Are you possibly confusing him with someone else because I’m not sure he’s ever played for the under 21s. Certainly didn’t in the recent tournament.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2021, 08:56:41 PM by johnny Cash »

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Re: Anything England Football
« Reply #3449 on: May 26, 2021, 08:35:05 AM »
The problem for Southgate is that some players like TAA, Mount and Foden play their league games surrounded and supported by fabulous talent.  He knows this is not available to him and must try to find a team that can play effectively from the talent available.  If this means playing Rice and Henderson as a defensive pair in front of a shaky back line then so be it.  Rice in particular has provided some great covering tackles in recent games when the back line has been pulled out of position.

As for Mount and Foden, I don't think an England team can afford both on the pitch at the same time.

I think White and Bellingham are in the 33 to get used to the environment

@Jonny Cash  Thanks for the correction: in my previous post I confused Jadon Sancho with Hudson-Odoi. 
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