[gazberg]

so like every other manager we’ve had.

I'd say most managers but not all. Darren Moore was in charge longer than he should have been purely based on sentiment.

Edit - With how the fans are boo'ing already i'd say he doesn't have that sentiment on his side.

[Hunnington Baggie]

I'd say most managers but not all. Darren Moore was in charge longer than he should have been purely based on sentiment.

Edit - With how the fans are boo'ing already i'd say he doesn't have that sentiment on his side.

I think you’re vastly overestimating the power fans have in getting a manager fired.

[NJS]

Val's style of play is essentially suited to the budget we have.  It seems that the silky skilled midfielders and dead-eye centre forwards are out of our orbit - VI has a system that can accommodate the players we can afford.

regarding ambition/money Can't see a Russian plutocrat, a Saudi prince or far eastern mega-industrialist being interested in buying a Black country club  - lacks the glamour of the West End of London, I guess.

We have to live with it.  Would have preferred Neil Critchley and I will not be surprised if Blackpool to upset us when we meet.

[gazberg]

I think you’re vastly overestimating the power fans have in getting a manager fired.

I was referring to your reply to the comment from Tex.

Tex said without results sentiment will turn against VI quickly then you said like every other manager then and i replied about DM. I believe he was kept on longer than he should have been because of who he was to the club. Not because of the fans but because of his connections. I was saying VI doesn't have those so he might find his head on the chopping block a bit sooner.

[TheJacko2000]

I was referring to your reply to the comment from Tex.

Tex said without results sentiment will turn against VI quickly then you said like every other manager then and i replied about DM. I believe he was kept on longer than he should have been because of who he was to the club. Not because of the fans but because of his connections. I was saying VI doesn't have those so he might find his head on the chopping block a bit sooner.

He's got a 4 year contract and our owner is broke so it's actually the opposite.

Whether he loses the goodwill of the supporters is neither here nor there.

[gazberg]

He's got a 4 year contract and our owner is broke so it's actually the opposite.

Whether he loses the goodwill of the supporters is neither here nor there.

I've not mentioned the goodwill of the supporters as being important in the owners reaching their decision. I said that in my post.

Lai is broke. He will sell anyone he can from our squad to fund any call he wants to make. We see that with the Pereira deal daftness.

[baggiejohn]

I was referring to your reply to the comment from Tex.

Tex said without results sentiment will turn against VI quickly then you said like every other manager then and i replied about DM. I believe he was kept on longer than he should have been because of who he was to the club. Not because of the fans but because of his connections. I was saying VI doesn't have those so he might find his head on the chopping block a bit sooner.

Think VI must have convinced our decision makers that he can deliver, otherwise he wouldn't have been given a four year contract.

I also think he's quite a pragmatic individual, & will find ways of winning football matches with what he's got.

It's clear that the football won't be pretty, but overall, I think he will be able to deliver.

He won't get sacked on aesthetic grounds, that's for sure.

[baggie82]

We played some decent stuff second half but lacked composure when we had the chances to score. Bottom line is that no matter who the manager is that if the players aren't very good then we will struggle and we have too many mediocre players now and lack star quality having given away you know you for no obvious financial reason.

[gazberg]

Think VI must have convinced our decision makers that he can deliver, otherwise he wouldn't have been given a four year contract.

I also think he's quite a pragmatic individual, & will find ways of winning football matches with what he's got.

It's clear that the football won't be pretty, but overall, I think he will be able to deliver.

He won't get sacked on aesthetic grounds, that's for sure.

The manner of football is irrelevant to me personally also John but if the results are consistently not great i don't think Lai will just sit back and watch his investment sink further. Of course Lai is primarily to blame for our position, he's useless. Despite saying that we have seen him get involved twice in recent months though (Wilder appointment and sale of Pereira).

Possible Lai has implemented a compensation limit in Ismaels contract setting a payout in event of sacking to a certain amount. It wouldn't be the first managerial contract to have such a clause but of course this is just me speculating.

I do quite like VI on a personal level and i also hope he sees that things need to change. He has said he does realise that after last night so i am genuinely looking forward to Saturday to see what changes are made.

[TheJacko2000]

I've not mentioned the goodwill of the supporters as being important in the owners reaching their decision. I said that in my post.

Lai is broke. He will sell anyone he can from our squad to fund any call he wants to make. We see that with the Pereira deal daftness.

So he can't afford 3 and a half years compensation. He's not going any where and the style of football won't bother the owner for a second.

[gazberg]

So he can't afford 3 and a half years compensation. He's not going any where and the style of football won't bother the owner for a second.

Why are you bringing up style of football? It's not been mentioned by me. I'm purely talking about results being his potential downfall.

Of course he can afford compensation if push comes to shove, he may not have the cash to hand NOW but he has shown he will fund it from selling some of the squad if he needs too.

[baggiejohn]

We played some decent stuff second half but lacked composure when we had the chances to score. Bottom line is that no matter who the manager is that if the players aren't very good then we will struggle and we have too many mediocre players now and lack star quality having given away you know you for no obvious financial reason.

Not sure we did lack composure.

Furlong took a touch & looked up before his shot went over the bar, he knew exactly where he wanted to place the ball, it just didn't come off for him.

Bartley's shot was also an attempt to place the ball.

I don't think we should underestimate how well Derby played defensively, especially their keeper.

[baggiemart]

Not sure we did lack composure.

Furlong took a touch & looked up before his shot went over the bar, he knew exactly where he wanted to place the ball, it just didn't come off for him.

Bartley's shot was also an attempt to place the ball.

I don't think we should underestimate how well Derby played defensively, especially their keeper.

Derby are an awful side, Blues dispatched them last week no problem.  We should have done the same but we failed.
I do feel sorry for Ismael. He is getting no support from the powers above him so he is expected to build a promotion side on free transfers and loans.  No way is that going to happen. We will be lucky to get in the play offs.
Some fans are getting carried away. If you look at the results they haven't really been that good. Failed to beat a Bournemouth team with half a team missing, Luton gave us two goals and we beat them by one goal, Blues put 5 past them the following week. Sheffield united were dire but are getting their act together now. A last minute winner against a side that will probably be relegated. Then we fail to beat two sides at home who will finish half way at best and in Derbys case will probably be relegated.

Add to all that a squad that is just too thin. When we get injuries and suspensions it will hit us hard as it already has.

Ismael is doing the best he can but he is fighting a losing battle. When the fans start the booing and chanting, and they will, they should aim it in the right direction and thats not at the manager !! 

[TheJacko2000]

Why are you bringing up style of football? It's not been mentioned by me. I'm purely talking about results being his potential downfall.

Of course he can afford compensation if push comes to shove, he may not have the cash to hand NOW but he has shown he will fund it from selling some of the squad if he needs too.

Edit - With how the fans are boo'ing already i'd say he doesn't have that sentiment on his side.

That's why?

No worries, you've somewhat clarified your position now 

[WorcsWBA]

It seems odd that almost everyone was up for Valerien's style of football, even after what was a poor performance at Peterborough, and yet now, after a couple of draws, many seem to have changed their mind. We're still unbeaten in the league  this season and we created a lot of chances last night in what was a much better performance than in the Peterborough game.

If we'd scored a winner against Derby or Milwall in injury time like we did at Peterborough, would everything be rosy again? If so, fickleness amonst our fans seems to be running rampant.

[TAFKATMNo1Fan]

It seems odd that almost everyone was up for Valerien's style of football, even after what was a poor performance at Peterborough, and yet now, after a couple of draws, many seem to have changed their mind. We're still unbeaten in the league  this season and we created a lot of chances last night in what was a much better performance than in the Peterborough game.

If we'd scored a winner against Derby or Milwall in injury time like we did at Peterborough, would everything be rosy again? If so, fickleness amonst our fans seems to be running rampant.

Bang on

[Albionic]

Bang on

Bang off actually !  Most of what I have read isn't about style or points its about tactics.

Its hard to not be concerned when we play the first half against Derby in the same manner which was ineffective at Posh and against Millwall, Yes we did change it to "football" for the 2nd half but took "footballers" off again concerning.

Its perfectly reasonable to comment on that in my opinion. VI is learning as are the squad, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't discuss that on a forum surely ?

Personally I much preferred the 2nd half performance far more, it gives me hope of progression whereas the first half was frankly very depressing fare.

[boinging_along]

It seems odd that almost everyone was up for Valerien's style of football, even after what was a poor performance at Peterborough, and yet now, after a couple of draws, many seem to have changed their mind. We're still unbeaten in the league  this season and we created a lot of chances last night in what was a much better performance than in the Peterborough game.

If we'd scored a winner against Derby or Milwall in injury time like we did at Peterborough, would everything be rosy again? If so, fickleness amonst our fans seems to be running rampant.

No, everything wouldn't be rosy.  I don't like to see "but we're top of the table" type excuses when there's clearly areas we should look to improve on. 

Before the international break our tactics were working - might not be pretty but it was fun to watch, and exciting when we won the ball back so far up the pitch. 

Since then we've played 2 teams who have worked us out.  Against Millwall we didn't change gameplan at all, just carried on hoofing it up to their big defence who hoofed it back.  Against Derby we did the same for 60-70mins, then we tried to get the ball down and only then did we start to carve regular chances out.  Just watch the 2 games back again, we didn't close down anywhere near like we did in previous games because the opposition came with a plan that meant the ball wasn't in their third of the pitch for more than about a millisecond. 

We need to react to that else it won't be long before you can't justify it with "we're top of the table" or "we're unbeaten". 

As with Pulis, while you get results, the style of football can be overlooked.  If you don't get the results then awful football will be criticised harder and earlier.

[WorcsWBA]

As with Pulis, while you get results, the style of football can be overlooked.  If you don't get the results then awful football will be criticised harder and earlier.

Pulis's style of football is far worse than Valerien's and I could never accept the former, regardless of the result.

All I'm suggesting is that it's early days and things aren't perfect, but we're second nonetheless, so why doesn't everyone give it a bit of time before piling onto the manager?

[boinging_along]

Pulis's style of football is far worse than Valerien's and I could never accept the former, regardless of the result.

All I'm suggesting is that it's early days and things aren't perfect, but we're second nonetheless, so why doesn't everyone give it a bit of time before piling onto the manager?

Really, you never celebrated a win under Pulis?  The Millwall game was as bad as anything under Pulis.

Anyway, my point is that the reason people are concerned is that, especially against Millwall, we just kept doing the same thing over and over again when it clearly wasn't working. 

It's causing discussion because we were warned Val doesn't have much of a Plan B and it appears that may be the case.

The jury is still out though because I thought we played some lovely stuff last 20-30 mins vs Derby so maybe he will consider a different approach where it's needed.  Time will tell.

Nobody is calling for his head but if the results dry up, and we keep playing like we did against teams that just out hoof us then fans will be right to criticise the manager.

[baggie82]

Not sure we did lack composure.

Furlong took a touch & looked up before his shot went over the bar, he knew exactly where he wanted to place the ball, it just didn't come off for him.

Bartley's shot was also an attempt to place the ball.

I don't think we should underestimate how well Derby played defensively, especially their keeper.

It was terrible from Furlong, but he's a very poor footballer, so it's not so surprising that faced with an open goal and the luxury of the time to take a touch that he can't even manage to hit the target. Even with someone as limited as Charlie Austin we would have beaten Derby comfortably.

[SirTonyM]

Amnesia seems to be a perennial problem for football fans. I always find comments like "Its the worst game of football for the last 30 years" or "its worse than anything under______ quite amusing". I have sat through so many terrible games over the years under lots of our managers (Gould, Little, Buckley, Robson, Pulis, Pardew etc)
We are clearly not playing that well at the moment but Val has managed us for 8 competitive games and in the league we are unbeaten.

[Atomic]

Amnesia seems to be a perennial problem for football fans. I always find comments like "Its the worst game of football for the last 30 years" or "its worse than anything under______ quite amusing". I have sat through so many terrible games over the years under lots of our managers (Gould, Little, Buckley, Robson, Pulis, Pardew etc)
We are clearly not playing that well at the moment but Val has managed us for 8 competitive games and in the league we are unbeaten.

You're right mate. There wasnt even anything wrong with the second half performance the other night other than we didnt find the net. It wasnt negative  it wasnt crude and it wasnt dull.

People love to moan and they talk absolute rubbish (on social media generally) like when they try and compare Valball to Pulis. Just complete and utter nonsense.

I've seen us get trounced 5 by the likes of Crewe and Grimsby. Now that really was bad.

[baggiejohn]

It was terrible from Furlong, but he's a very poor footballer, so it's not so surprising that faced with an open goal and the luxury of the time to take a touch that he can't even manage to hit the target. Even with someone as limited as Charlie Austin we would have beaten Derby comfortably.

I'd be interested to know who you think is a good footballer?

Personally, I accept that players sometimes make mistakes.

[seteefeet]

It was terrible from Furlong, but he's a very poor footballer, so it's not so surprising that faced with an open goal and the luxury of the time to take a touch that he can't even manage to hit the target. Even with someone as limited as Charlie Austin we would have beaten Derby comfortably.

Austin most likely wouldn't have been in that position though, he's not a RWB.

In fact, none of the chances fell to forwards and that's something that needs addressing. When we started playing football, our two best finishers were not on the pitch.
If we continue to play like we did second half, from the start, when the likes of Grant and/or Robinson are on, they will score.

As it was, we could still have won comfortably, barring an excellent/jammy goalkeeping performance and poor finishing.
If we had carried on in the same vein, in the second half, then I could fully understand all the criticism, but, for me the changes we made, at half time, render the "lack of Plan B" argument moot. The second half was Plan B and, if we'd have took one of the many chances, it would have worked.