Poll

How would you rate Luke Dowlings tenure to date (26 may 2021)

Roaring success, we'll be lucky to keep him
2 (1.8%)
Doing well given the limitations he has to work under
9 (8.1%)
Ok
16 (14.4%)
Poor, could be doing better overall
49 (44.1%)
Abject, needs to be fired or walk,
35 (31.5%)

Total Members Voted: 111

Voting closed: June 05, 2021, 12:28:58 PM

Author Topic: Luke Dowling  (Read 46416 times)

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biggerthanbigvic

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Luke Dowling
« on: September 05, 2020, 12:18:24 PM »
I don’t usually post on here, as you can see from my very dated username. But I’m an avid reader most days.

Considering the transfer activity we’ve completed and are reportedly due to complete at this moment in time, I think Dowling deserves a lot of credit for the work he’s done.

We’ve secured the engine of our team last season for less than Villa are likely to spend on an injury prone Callum Wilson and that can’t be sniffed at.

To swap a useless Burke with a decent option in Robinson (who no doubt is a good influence in the dressing room) and probably save on wages as well is a master stroke.

I know we’ve got a long way to go in the window and we still need an ST, CM (on top of Krovi) and an LB, you’ve got to commend him for the position we are in. And crucially, we have the two domestic loans intact which I’ve no doubt we will utilise later in the window when the big boys start to spend and players become available.

I started this window convinced we were down before a ball would be kicked. But if we continue like this, there could be hope yet. Bilić can’t say he hasn’t been backed within the limits of the club either.

The only down side at this moment in time is not being able to get down the Hawthorns to watch Grady and crew proper attack the prem!

Boing Boing.

J.

skyclad99

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2020, 12:21:06 PM »
I don’t usually post on here, as you can see from my very dated username. But I’m an avid reader most days.

Considering the transfer activity we’ve completed and are reportedly due to complete at this moment in time, I think Dowling deserves a lot of credit for the work he’s done.

We’ve secured the engine of our team last season for less than Villa are likely to spend on an injury prone Callum Wilson and that can’t be sniffed at.

To swap a useless Burke with a decent option in Robinson (who no doubt is a good influence in the dressing room) and probably save on wages as well is a master stroke.

I know we’ve got a long way to go in the window and we still need an ST, CM (on top of Krovi) and an LB, you’ve got to commend him for the position we are in. And crucially, we have the two domestic loans intact which I’ve no doubt we will utilise later in the window when the big boys start to spend and players become available.

I started this window convinced we were down before a ball would be kicked. But if we continue like this, there could be hope yet. Bilić can’t say he hasn’t been backed within the limits of the club either.

The only down side at this moment in time is not being able to get down the Hawthorns to watch Grady and crew proper attack the prem!

Boing Boing.

J.

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KnaveofAlbion

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2020, 01:33:13 PM »
There's a couple and i can't remember if its here or twitter, but they claim Dowling is useless, that every good thing is down to Bilic. I'm not sure how much of what falls under the influence of each person, but its clearly working as a set-up, so long may it continue.
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AlbionFan

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2020, 01:39:33 PM »
It's as much of a team off the field as it is on
My posts are my personal views and any links or external inclusions are not necessarily an endorsement by me.
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baggiebof

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2020, 06:27:39 PM »
I like the profile of signing that Dowling has been targeting, my qualm with him is that he seems limited to the domestic market only but he's been good otherwise.

baggie82

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2020, 06:46:38 PM »
Considering the transfer activity we’ve completed and are reportedly due to complete at this moment in time, I think Dowling deserves a lot of credit for the work he’s done.

There was a poster on here slagging him off last week on literally the day we had a bid accepted for Diangana (before it was leaked). As I said last week before the signing broke the time to judge is when the window closes.

johnny Cash

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2020, 07:31:27 PM »
There was a poster on here slagging him off last week on literally the day we had a bid accepted for Diangana (before it was leaked). As I said last week before the signing broke the time to judge is when the window closes.

The time to judge is at the end of the window, but this idea fans have to press reset on their opinions and discount anything historical any time we enter a new transfer window, or press reset for one reason or another (such as sacking a manager) is nonsense. It is perfectly reasonable to judge, draw conclusions and make predictions based on the past when it comes to Dowling, the owner, chief execs, managers, or players.

Judging on one signing is positively or negatively is silly when we need so much. If we needed two or three, each individual move could probably have more scrutiny, but considering our position we will have to look at our business on a whole.

Although, didn't you call the board (which Dowling is part of) clowns over one particular transfer? (A Robinson?) so I'm not sure why you see someone slagging him off as so incredulous.

seteefeet

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2020, 07:47:51 PM »
It's as much of a team off the field as it is on
Drop the mic. You've nailed it.

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2020, 08:55:39 PM »
Drop the mic. You've nailed it.

You can't attribute all the success to a team effort and then all the failings at one man.

Praise where it's due for me at the level of accountability.

Baggies

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2020, 11:26:32 PM »
I do doubt if Dowling has enough to establish us as a prem side and if he is the right man for this job. That doesn't mean he is useless or that nothing he has done has been positive.

I've given my reasons on here a few times and explained my concerns with him and they haven't changed at this point.

He alienated the academy upon his arrival, losing most of our best staff and then 3 of our most promising players in a 12 month period (more nearly left with others still potentially going). His scouting has been very domestic market centric, which can reap some rewards but which is also an old fashioned approach which stops you exploring huge swathes of potential around the world. I have also felt that at times, he does not do his business quick enough, leaving too much to the last minute.

His signings up to this point have been 50% hit 50% miss, with  his most expensive signings being the biggest misses, and yes, our best signing under him was somebody identified by Bilic from a market Dowling wouldn't look in himself. I think a club like ours needs to be operating at near enough 95% of potential to achieve and i'm not yet convinced that Dowling is dynamic enough to achieve that.

There are positives of course.

He has a clear approach in terms of lowering the age of the players we buy, signing people who have the potential to generate some big sell on fees (the right business model for a club like ours). The likes of Sawyers, Ajayi and Furlong last season were low cost successes and Kipre this year also seems to be in that sort of profile.

He has also so far finished every transfer window having concluded deals for players in the positions we need. The players haven't always been successes, but he hasn't up to this point seen a window close and left you feeling like we failed to sign enough players, which has happened at times in the years before him.

I also feel he is showing signs of improvement, with him realising eventually that the likes of Field, Leko, Morton and Palmer needed loan moves rather than letting them stagnate in PL2 football, which I hope is something he is going to continue to expand over the course of the next month. He is speeding up how quickly he works this summer which is another plus and his work on the Diangana deal is a big plus.

In time he might prove to be the right man and prove me wrong, he does get credit where it's due for some things he does, but i'd be lying if I didn't lay out my feelings now and highlight the concerns I have. The jury is still out for me.
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KnaveofAlbion

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2020, 12:44:57 AM »
Totally fair post mate and i welcome informed and observed input on him and indeed anything Albion related. My issue was very much with one or two who come out with things like "he's a dick, i won't go into why, but if you know, you know." Which is of no use as far as conversation goes.

I do wonder why he did what he did with the academy. It seems an odd move, but there must have been a logic to it.

In regards to losing young talent to top 6 teams, i think a large chunk of that is down to parents and the current system. I do get that a 16 year old lad faced with a "signing on" fee of £1m to sign a 5 year contract at Man City is faced with an enormous choice and i think its down to us as a club to instill over the years an ethos that here is the best place (also, why do our contracts for these lads always end at like 19, just the age where if they've made it they can walk for a tiny fee?)

Rather than see examples like Lou Barry and the like as negatives i think actually getting the lads to stay is a positive. I can only hope Slaven signs a new contract soon as his being the boss is a massive boost. As long as we're not thrashed weekly i'd even keep him if we went down.
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baggie82

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2020, 02:28:59 AM »
The time to judge is at the end of the window, but this idea fans have to press reset on their opinions and discount anything historical any time we enter a new transfer window, or press reset for one reason or another (such as sacking a manager) is nonsense. It is perfectly reasonable to judge, draw conclusions and make predictions based on the past when it comes to Dowling, the owner, chief execs, managers, or players.

Judging on one signing is positively or negatively is silly when we need so much. If we needed two or three, each individual move could probably have more scrutiny, but considering our position we will have to look at our business on a whole.

Although, didn't you call the board (which Dowling is part of) clowns over one particular transfer? (A Robinson?) so I'm not sure why you see someone slagging him off as so incredulous.

It's taken some effort but I've just about read the above post in English and I think I've understood most of your points. Correct I slagged the board off (calling them clowns) for not matching the offer for Robinson who signed for Fulham. Dowling doesn't set the budget, he doesn't get to choose how much money we have to spend.  In respect of his own performance, as I have said consistently, the time to judge is when the window closes and we can stand back and look at all of the decisions, good and bad, rationally.


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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2020, 07:43:12 AM »
i'm happy with much of what he's done so far. Admittedly the signs at the start with the Academy were worrying but that seems to have settled down now and I can understand the logic behind some of the changesif what I'd read is accurate.

Some good debate on here but I'd suggest that the view that his signings have been 50/50 is probably a bit harsh. I'd agree that Zohore and arguably Austin havent come up to scratch, but the remaining have either been very solid signings, like Furlong, Grosicki, or have been an absolute steal, Ajayi, Sawyers, Pereira, Diangana.

Either way our club is a much more positive place now weve got rid of the Pulis hangover and this season we have a chnace to build a reputation as a well run dynamic club and team, which may make us more attractive to investors than we have been previously.

The big signing for me will be to extend Bilic' contract. This is the final season on his contract I think? We need him to stay for longer, and hopefully as we build a team he will want to stay.

johnny Cash

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2020, 08:22:14 AM »
It's taken some effort but I've just about read the above post in English and I think I've understood most of your points. Correct I slagged the board off (calling them clowns) for not matching the offer for Robinson who signed for Fulham. Dowling doesn't set the budget, he doesn't get to choose how much money we have to spend.  In respect of his own performance, as I have said consistently, the time to judge is when the window closes and we can stand back and look at all of the decisions, good and bad, rationally.

Nothing wrong with the English other than a typo where I’ve somehow ended up with ‘is’ instead of ‘either’. Little upset your hypocrisy has been highlighted?

No Dowling doesn’t set how much we have to spend, but it would be fair to say he’s got input on how we allocate our budget and he’s probably the deciding vote on the majority of individual moves.

baggie82

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2020, 08:24:34 AM »
Nothing wrong with the English other than a typo where I’ve somehow ended up with ‘is’ instead of ‘either’. Little upset your hypocrisy has been highlighted?

No Dowling doesn’t set how much we have to spend, but it would be fair to say he’s got input on how we allocate our budget and he’s probably the deciding vote on the majority of individual moves.

Surely the final deciding vote is Bilic.

johnny Cash

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2020, 09:17:32 AM »
Surely the final deciding vote is Bilic.

I’d hope Bilic can veto any deals, but if a player is of interest most case by case  decisions on how high we go with fees and wages are going to sit above him and with Dowling (providing it sits within the overall budget set by the CEO / owner).

As sporting and technical director I think Dowling will have a lot of operational authority. Especially given Ken’s relative inexperience.

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2020, 12:13:43 PM »
There has to be dialogue between Dowling and Bilic on recruitment and squad management. Although Bilic is the higher profile figure and probably paid more ultimately Dowling is Bilic's boss and Xu Ke is the CEO in turn is Dowling's boss and  accountable to the ownership for the day to day management of the club.

In no other business does someone 3 rungs down the ladder get a veto on operational matters. I once was charged with walking into a board room to explain that the boys on the trading floor didn't much like the way things were run (and yes in FS sometimes star traders do wag the dog) it didn't end well.

Yes,I know football is different and there is a lot tabloid bluster and column inches expended on manager x being in conflict with Director y over Carlos Kicakball's multi million pound transfer and in some cases it might even be true but for the most part Head Coach and Director of football have to work together.

They might have slightly different perspectives and Bilic might even have a veto but if things come to that they aren't working properly.  If there is a constant conflict it ends only one way and let me see what generally turnovers quicker Head Coaches or Directors of Football? There is the answer.
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2020, 03:37:40 PM »
I think as it stands I'd love one more midfielder (Krov) and of course a striker maybe two.

I think the next few weeks will be crucial to see how hes done this transfer window but I have to say so far im hugely impressed. I didnt think we would ever see Diangana in an albion shirt again. The fact we have brough in Callum Robinson to get rid of deadwood burke was an amazing piece of business. Ivanovic and  Kipre both for less than a million , and now Gallagher. I think we have done well considering out limited budget from the board.

I think if we land a good striker, Dowling has given us a fighting chance of staying up.

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2020, 04:13:07 PM »
I agree he’s done s decent job on the whole but I still think there is work to do. I don’t think that Krov is the essential piece of business that needs doing though.
If we don’t upgrade or strikers quite considerably we are going to really struggle.
I like Kanu for his effort but like Austin and Zohore they are not of the quality needed in the Premier League.
For a really successful window we would see two of the above depart with two incoming.
I really hope we can achieve that, then we will have had a really good window and Dowling will be well worthy of the praise
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johnny Cash

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2020, 05:02:04 PM »
He may have done a decent job negotiating, but a big part of his job is managing recruitment which includes overall identification of players (which will be supported by a team i assume, including scouts, which he manages).

Most of us could have identified (and many did) most of our signings and known targets this year and yet it isnt a major part of our job description. In this respect they are lazy and uninspiring and leave us at the mercy of inflated domestic fees.

What happened to these 'lists' or the players we have been negotiating with that are 'not in the public domain'.

We also still don't have a striker, which was one of the single most important positons we needed to fill.

He has done some things well, no doubt. However there is far more to his job than the bits he has done well, which is why its hard to say he has done a decent job.

I honestly believe if I had 30 hours a week to work on player identification I could do better.


PartisanBaggie

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #20 on: September 18, 2020, 05:19:56 PM »
He may have done a decent job negotiating, but a big part of his job is managing recruitment which includes overall identification of players (which will be supported by a team i assume, including scouts, which he manages).

Most of us could have identified (and many did) most of our signings and known targets this year and yet it isnt a major part of our job description. In this respect they are lazy and uninspiring and leave us at the mercy of inflated domestic fees.

What happened to these 'lists' or the players we have been negotiating with that are 'not in the public domain'.

We also still don't have a striker, which was one of the single most important positons we needed to fill.

He has done some things well, no doubt. However there is far more to his job than the bits he has done well, which is why its hard to say he has done a decent job.

I honestly believe if I had 30 hours a week to work on player identification I could do better.

I bet we’d have a frickin’ striker by now if you were johnny Cash!

I can tell if I was doing Dowling’s job, a damn good striker would have been signed, sealed and delivered a month ago. None of this ******* about.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2020, 06:03:10 PM by LiamTheBaggie »

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #21 on: September 18, 2020, 05:27:37 PM »
.......What happened to these 'lists' or the players we have been negotiating with that are 'not in the public domain'........

The selling clubs refused to accept the Green Shield stamps we've been hoarding, as for the Luke Dowling 'Have a Hug' tokens well the less said about those the better.
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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #22 on: September 18, 2020, 05:30:54 PM »
I don't think he's done a good job at all. Quite the opposite in fact.

I think the Diangana signing is to placate either the fans, or his own ego. It was a lot of our budget to commit, and I'm wary that it might leave us short in other areas.

Aside from that, I think he's built a side that is going to be in a straight shoot-out for bottom with Fulham. All of his signings have been domestic; the foreign ones came from Bilic and co. The players he has signed have been either players who have been there and done it before (such as Austin), or are the stand out players in poor teams (Ajayi). All of his targets have been very obvious signings, but I don't think any have really proven to be at the level we need from them to stay in this division.

When we bought him out of his contract, Forest were days from sacking him, which says everything. We need a new Dan Ashworth, and this guy isn't it.

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2020, 05:31:54 PM »
I bet we’d have a frickin’ striker by now if you were johnny Cash!

I can tell if I was doing Dowling’s job, a damn good striker would have been signed, sealed and delivered a month ago. None of this ******* about.

If only it was that easy, he too would have signed one by now.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2020, 06:03:29 PM by LiamTheBaggie »

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Re: Luke Dowling
« Reply #24 on: September 18, 2020, 05:38:52 PM »
Completely unimpressed. Most of the better signings have been through Bilic.

The fact we still don't have a striker is absolutely appalling.

The lack of overseas scouting/recruiting in general is almost negligence in footballing terms leaving us at the mercy of the overpriced UK market.