[skyclad99]

Peace has offered no explanation let alone a credible explanation for why he borrowed £3.7m from the club.

Actually 82 he has;

“The loan made to West Bromwich Albion Holdings by the football club was on arm’s length and commercially attractive terms at a time when cash deposits elsewhere were (and still are) earning a much lower rate of interest.”

He was doing us a favour apparently. Thats OK then isn't it.

He also categorically denies buying shares..... for himself.....with club money.

[WorcsWBA]

There were claims he might have used club money in 2010.

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2010/07/29/so-what-is-jeremy-peace-up-to-now/

Thanks for that link, but my observation was with regard to when Peace took control of the club from Paul Thompson.

[throstle]

Thanks for that link, but my observation was with regard to when Peace took control of the club from Paul Thompson.

That period is covered at

http://www.insideworldfootball.com/2014/07/09/matt-scott-west-brom-s-history-of-attritional-shareholder-war-shows-why-one-man-is-at-peace/

[WorcsWBA]

That period is covered at

http://www.insideworldfootball.com/2014/07/09/matt-scott-west-brom-s-history-of-attritional-shareholder-war-shows-why-one-man-is-at-peace/

Thanks, but it doesn't really appear to cover how Peace (other than in collaboration with Kappa) funded his various purchases.

[throstle]

Thanks, but it doesn't really appear to cover how Peace (other than in collaboration with Kappa) funded his various purchases.

He received a £1m + a year as Chairman. £1.95 million in his last year.

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/bumper-pay-rise-jeremy-peace-12532731

[skyclad99]

He received a £1m + a year as Chairman. £1.95 million in his last year.

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/bumper-pay-rise-jeremy-peace-12532731

He really did take our club to the cleaners didn't he........

[wodenson46]

What can /will happen if JP is found to be guilty of everything he is accused of?
Will the small shareholders get any reparation?
Will Our club get any money?
What about capital punishment?
Who benefits who loses and by how much?

Cannot pretend to even understand the general issues, let alone how ethical or legal his actions were, but will somebody please try to explain for me in words of three syllables or less what the expectations might be regarding the outcomes  of this case. 

[baggies_24]

He really did take our club to the cleaners didn't he........

Peace’s greed has really tarnished his reputation, no doubt he improved the club but his greed is now hindering it.

[BB74]

JP is an astute and shrewd businessman. There is no way he will have kept a dirty trail along the way or done anything illegal.

S4A would be better putting their efforts into forming a consortium to buy Lai out.

[BaggieNick]

Peace’s greed has really tarnished his reputation, no doubt he improved the club but his greed is now hindering it.

Never liked him. Horrible. A huge fan apparently. I wonder how many times he's been up the Albion since he sold?......

For him personally the deal was so good it was almost surreal. The real fans are now left with the consequences.

[LiamTheBaggie]

JP is an astute and shrewd businessman. There is no way he will have kept a dirty trail along the way or done anything illegal.

S4A would be better putting their efforts into forming a consortium to buy Lai out.

I pretty much agree with your second sentence

He will not have done anything that would jeopardise his potential sale of this club

Quite frankly - I don’t care whether he did utilise the funds to buy shares. The man is history so I’m not going to get my knickers in a twist over it.

[skyclad99]

What can /will happen if JP is found to be guilty of everything he is accused of?
Will the small shareholders get any reparation?
Will Our club get any money?
What about capital punishment?
Who benefits who loses and by how much?

Cannot pretend to even understand the general issues, let alone how ethical or legal his actions were, but will somebody please try to explain for me in words of three syllables or less what the expectations might be regarding the outcomes  of this case.

I think that S4A are trying to prove a point with Peace. The purpose of the £3.7m loan from WBAFC to the Peace company is under question. Peace denies he used it to buy shares for himself, instead selling it as an 'arms length arrangement with favourable interest rates above the base rate'. S4A do not believe this, and neither does anyone else.

I cannot see how there will be any reparation to the small shareholders; its not about that.

WBAFC are owed £3.7m plus interest, and it is currently estimated to be £5m overall. Apparently this debt can be called in at any time, but with Lai the major shareholder and with a foot in both concerns, he would effectively be asking himself to pay the money over to the club, which is unlikely to happen any time soon. 

In respect of capital punishment I assume you mean an FA fine and not the death penalty, which would be a bit harsh. I don't know to be honest. This could be a case of 'be careful what you wish for'. If Peace and the club broke any rules there could be a financial penalty, and any penalty will almost certainly be on the club, not the Jersey boy. I don't think it will come to this though, this is just a questionable internal business transaction.

The potential loser at the moment is the club and Lai. WBA are £3.7m down and Lai owns the debt. You will know who the big time winner is.

It is like me borrowing £10 from you to put on a horse at 10/1. The horse wins and I don't give you your £10 back.

S4A are trying to prove a point of principal as far as I can see. I wish there was an S4A forum member who could contribute to this discussion.

I can understand that some are not that bothered about Peace and the loan as it is history. However, we still constantly go on about the lack of investment and lack of ambition. From the moment Peace joined the board he could see the big picture. I came across the following statement the other day by Clive Stapleton and Barry Hurst, who were forced to resign on 13/06/2002.

 http://www.baggies.com/news/?id=449&pag=18

Knowing what we now know you can see that Peace was always one step ahead of everyone else. You can also see the chaos that was going on in the boardroom at the time. I met Stapleton and the others, good honest businessmen who were lifelong WBA fans who wanted to do the best for the club, not themselves. For me the Stapleton statement was sad reading, as it marks the time when the club went into a different direction that could never be reversed.

Peace did a lot of good for the club. He was shrewd and astute and has kept us financially solid. We now know why. I was particularly impressed with the way he stood up to Levy over Berahino. There is no doubt he left us in a better position than where we were in 2002, but at what cost? Where would we be had Peace not have gained control? Impossible to say really, we could  have been a top 6 side, or we could have been looking forward to trips to Barnet, Wycombe, Rochdale etc. However, what the Peace sale has done is land us with an inexperienced owner, no investment, and a sale price that no one in their right mind is ever going to match. So we are stuck with this for a long time, and this is all down to the greed of one man.

I like S4A, they are chipping away and asking questions. Personally I think that the meeting they have with Ken next week will be a futile exercise, but at least they are having a go. As BB74 said, perhaps they should spend more time trying to find investors to buy Lai out.

Personally I am just looking forward to getting back to the ground and watching the team, hopefully exciting times ahead with VI, but we have been here before 

   

[wodenson46]

Ace post Skyclad, many thanks, received and understood. 

Tend to fully agree with you about S4A,  'whipping a Jed oss' as they say where I come from. Resources and influence might be better used for future rather than past.

"Personally I am just looking forward to getting back to the ground and watching the team, hopefully exciting times ahead with VI, but we have been here before" .

Sums it up perfectly for me as well. Cheers sir!

[baggiejohn]

I think that S4A are trying to prove a point with Peace. The purpose of the £3.7m loan from WBAFC to the Peace company is under question. Peace denies he used it to buy shares for himself, instead selling it as an 'arms length arrangement with favourable interest rates above the base rate'. S4A do not believe this, and neither does anyone else.

I cannot see how there will be any reparation to the small shareholders; its not about that.

WBAFC are owed £3.7m plus interest, and it is currently estimated to be £5m overall. Apparently this debt can be called in at any time, but with Lai the major shareholder and with a foot in both concerns, he would effectively be asking himself to pay the money over to the club, which is unlikely to happen any time soon. 

In respect of capital punishment I assume you mean an FA fine and not the death penalty, which would be a bit harsh. I don't know to be honest. This could be a case of 'be careful what you wish for'. If Peace and the club broke any rules there could be a financial penalty, and any penalty will almost certainly be on the club, not the Jersey boy. I don't think it will come to this though, this is just a questionable internal business transaction.

The potential loser at the moment is the club and Lai. WBA are £3.7m down and Lai owns the debt. You will know who the big time winner is.

It is like me borrowing £10 from you to put on a horse at 10/1. The horse wins and I don't give you your £10 back.

S4A are trying to prove a point of principal as far as I can see. I wish there was an S4A forum member who could contribute to this discussion.

I can understand that some are not that bothered about Peace and the loan as it is history. However, we still constantly go on about the lack of investment and lack of ambition. From the moment Peace joined the board he could see the big picture. I came across the following statement the other day by Clive Stapleton and Barry Hurst, who were forced to resign on 13/06/2002.

http://www.baggies.com/news/?id=449&pag=18

Knowing what we now know you can see that Peace was always one step ahead of everyone else. You can also see the chaos that was going on in the boardroom at the time. I met Stapleton and the others, good honest businessmen who were lifelong WBA fans who wanted to do the best for the club, not themselves. For me the Stapleton statement was sad reading, as it marks the time when the club went into a different direction that could never be reversed.

Peace did a lot of good for the club. He was shrewd and astute and has kept us financially solid. We now know why. I was particularly impressed with the way he stood up to Levy over Berahino. There is no doubt he left us in a better position than where we were in 2002, but at what cost? Where would we be had Peace not have gained control? Impossible to say really, we could  have been a top 6 side, or we could have been looking forward to trips to Barnet, Wycombe, Rochdale etc. However, what the Peace sale has done is land us with an inexperienced owner, no investment, and a sale price that no one in their right mind is ever going to match. So we are stuck with this for a long time, and this is all down to the greed of one man.

I like S4A, they are chipping away and asking questions. Personally I think that the meeting they have with Ken next week will be a futile exercise, but at least they are having a go. As BB74 said, perhaps they should spend more time trying to find investors to buy Lai out.

Personally I am just looking forward to getting back to the ground and watching the team, hopefully exciting times ahead with VI, but we have been here before 

 

Re: The first section in bold..................


WBAFC owe the owner (WBA Holdings) around £23 million. This debt carries no interest, so isn't going to get any bigger

To repay the £3.7 million plus interest that the owner owes to WBAFC, all he has to do, is off-set it against the debt that WBAFC owes to WBA Holdings.

So........

I owe you £23 million interest free.

You owe me £3.7 million with an interest of 5% over BoE base rate.

I can call in your debt at any time, but if I hang on long enough, I'll have accumulated enough interest to call it quits.

I'd be absolutely mad to call it in.

The link in bold

I've looked at the link, & all I can see is waffle, there's nothing concrete there at all. It's pretty clear, at that time we were being run by well meaning, but enthusiastic amateurs. Peace, however ruthless, bought some professionalism into the club.

[Nickwba1]

This is an issue with Peace rather than the club per se. I was a shareholder but sold my stake I think when Peace did his last round up of shares. Do I feel annoyed that I couldn't get the 'true' value of the share, of course; I got a fraction of what it was really worth. However, everyone knew that he only ever needed x% then no one would ever need to buy more, thus it was very unlikely you'd ever see the full true value unless some one wanted the full 100%, Peace knew that and so did all the shareholders, it's how things work in business and when you have very little power there's not much you can do. All the shareholders are still sat there with their 1 share that will continue to be worth very little and frustrated with what Peace did.

[skyclad99]

Re: The first section in bold..................


WBAFC owe the owner (WBA Holdings) around £23 million. This debt carries no interest, so isn't going to get any bigger

To repay the £3.7 million plus interest that the owner owes to WBAFC, all he has to do, is off-set it against the debt that WBAFC owes to WBA Holdings.

So........

I owe you £23 million interest free.

You owe me £3.7 million with an interest of 5% over BoE base rate.

I can call in your debt at any time, but if I hang on long enough, I'll have accumulated enough interest to call it quits.

I'd be absolutely mad to call it in.

The link in bold

I've looked at the link, & all I can see is waffle, there's nothing concrete there at all. It's pretty clear, at that time we were being run by well meaning, but enthusiastic amateurs. Peace, however ruthless, bought some professionalism into the club.

I take your point about the counter debt, but we will be waiting a very long time before they balance. Of course another way would be to sell Pereira & Johnstone and clear the debt, which would then take us back to being a few bob down in the Albion coffers.

I never said that there was anything concrete in the link I have provided, it is more of an indication as to what was going on in the boardroom at the time. There is also counter statements from Peace saying how is is going to unite the club and take us forward etc... now this is waffle for you.

[baggiejohn]

I take your point about the counter debt, but we will be waiting a very long time before they balance. Of course another way would be to sell Pereira & Johnstone and clear the debt, which would then take us back to being a few bob down in the Albion coffers.

I never said that there was anything concrete in the link I have provided, it is more of an indication as to what was going on in the boardroom at the time. There is also counter statements from Peace saying how is is going to unite the club and take us forward etc... now this is waffle for you.

High quality waffle though, he did unite the club & he did take us forward.

Under his stewardship WBA had a good reputation as a model club & his opinions were highly sought in football governance.

Roy Hodgson, brought in by Dan Ashworth (appointed by Peace) went on to become England Manager.

Dan Ashworth himself went on to become Director of Elite Development for the English FA. & is now sporting director at Brighton

Richard Garlick left WBA to become a director of football at the Premier League & now holds the same position at Arsenal.

It's often said the measure of a good manager is the progress made by their subordinates.
Based on what I've seen, I would say JP created an environment where executives could thrive.

[ex coseley kid]

'The money was just resting in my account'

Father Ted aficionados' will know that one 

It still does not add up to me.

Only just read that. Brilliant.

Peace might have been greedy but what we achieved under his stewardship was the best spell since the early 80s.

[paulosull]

Ebenezer was only in it to make a buck all this bolo about how he improved the club is that bolo. Thompson did the heavy lifting with Sir Gary, Scrooge was in the right place at the right time for him but at detriment of the Albion. Did naff all but tread water until he could gain control and sell to the highest bidder again at detriment of the Albion. As for new owner and the loan he gave  HE OWNS THE BLOODY CLUB!

[skyclad99]

Ebenezer was only in it to make a buck all this bolo about how he improved the club is that bolo. Thompson did the heavy lifting with Sir Gary, Scrooge was in the right place at the right time for him but at detriment of the Albion. Did naff all but tread water until he could gain control and sell to the highest bidder again at detriment of the Albion. As for new owner and the loan he gave  HE OWNS THE BLOODY CLUB!

The loan was paid to Jeremy Peace by WBA, not to Lai. Peace did not pay it back, instead he passed the debt onto Lai.

[baggie82]

The loan was paid to Jeremy Peace by WBA, not to Lai. Peace did not pay it back, instead he passed the debt onto Lai.

Despite pocketing £175m which is a measure of the man.

[paulosull]

The loan was paid to Jeremy Peace by WBA, not to Lai. Peace did not pay it back, instead he passed the debt onto Lai.

not the three million the thirty million he loaned to the club

[baggie82]

JP did not loan the club £30m.

[skyclad99]

JP did not loan the club £30m.

I don't remember that either 82 

[tambag]

I don't remember that either 82 

He wouldn't of lent us 30p