[hardtobeat]

Diangana was good last night but was clearly feeling it last 10 or 15 minutes.

Fairness to Grady he was stretching his hamstrings from just before Livermore was subbed and continued to do so until the end. Hope its just cramp and needs a dunk in the ice bath to sort . Wouldn't be a surprise if he didn't start Saturday and we saw either Grant or Robinson in his place

[kris_boing]

Sounded terrible except for the last 20 minutes.


Radio WM commentator said we reminded him of Wimbledon. Not good.

[Albionic]

On a tangent (sorry) I am a bit concerned that Mowatt has become average, his first couple of games were excellent but seems to have dropped off somewhat. Is it playing alongside JL ? (don't think so)
Is he knackered ? Is it simply my perceptions wrong ?

[LiamTheBaggie]

On a tangent (sorry) I am a bit concerned that Mowatt has become average, his first couple of games were excellent but seems to have dropped off somewhat. Is it playing alongside JL ? (don't think so)
Is he knackered ? Is it simply my perceptions wrong ?

He was everywhere in the second half last night. Had a good game I thought.

[Albionic]

He was everywhere in the second half last night. Had a good game I thought.

Maybe I am thinking too much about that god awful first half !  After P'boro / Millwall I thought we had to improve significantly and was very disappointed that we hadnt

[brummyroader]

First half was poor with the aerial bombardment with the front 3 he picked who prefer to play quickly on the floor.

Hugill looks very useful in general play but can’t see him being a goal threat on a regular basis. Second half tbf we could of scored 2 or 3 but even the set plays weren’t overly threatening.

And finally booing at HT or FT when your top of the league is embarrassing ffs

[johnny Cash]

Well that was my Valball Hawthorns debut and well, it's dreadful isn't it? Particularly in the first half.

there is no way this translates to a higher level and as such, is there any real future in it?

Very early on I said I was worried it wouldn’t translate either.  Like you I’m now pretty confident it won’t. .

We’d look like Millwall did on Saturday, only Prem sides would take advantage. Lump it forwards, get played through, penned and repeat.

[brummyroader]

Promising signs from Grady but not too much end product from what I can remember, easily forgettable 90 mins though

[baggiebof]

Very early on I said I was worried it wouldn’t translate either.  Like you I’m now pretty confident it won’t. .

We’d look like Millwall did on Saturday, only Prem sides would take advantage. Lump it forwards, get played through, penned and repeat.

But we wouldn't sit as deep would we, we'd set pressing traps and try, where possible, to win the ball high? Agree that we would get penned in some games but I think we'd be approaching it in general different to the way Milwall approached playing us.

[albion59]

Last night we had 25 shots, 9 on target compared to their 4 shots and none on target

And? The record books will show 0-0. Doesn't matter how many shots we or they have if none go in!

[Albionic]

But we wouldn't sit as deep would we, we'd set pressing traps and try, where possible, to win the ball high? Agree that we would get penned in some games but I think we'd be approaching it in general different to the way Milwall approached playing us.

Very previous discussion chaps!  3 games ago I was confident that we would take a top 2 place, my confidence has been seriously undermined by recent performances / tactics

[phbaggies]

I thought Furlong was the best threat throughout the whole match, could have topped it off right at the death too if it wasnt for that pesky keeper! 

[WBA.R.K]

Diangana for us. The Derby Keeper Roos overall.

[phbaggies]

I said on Twitter last night in 3 games now, we have had 56 shots, scoring just 2 goals against **** poor opposition, if you dont sign an out and out striker of a decent calibre then this is the conclusion and this will be the reason why we dont go up unless we address it!

[Norfolk Baggie]

I may be tired this morning after a long journey back, but I am now quite pessimistic around where we will finish.

a) teams have found ways to counter our tactics.  We have not modified our tactics, and we do not appear to have any real variance in play.
b) on the tactics we are playing, we have lost a degree of crispness- our passes do not connect we do not seem to have much positional awareness.  Confidence seems to be ebbing.
c) I saw the stats on shots, and I and most fans at the match were surprised at this.  Yes their keeper had a good game, but we need to regain the ruthlessness at finishing.  All this taken together from around 30 minutes in, I thought this would be a draw, and this is how it turned out.

Yes we are top of the league, but it is form which is important, and ours is dropping IMO.

[ttree30]

It’s really early days so not clear how this will pan out over the season. We may remain unbeaten but have mostly squandered two home games against two of the also-rans in the Championship, especially Derby who are incredibly lucky not to be in League One and on whom many bookies refused to even offer odds on relegation this season.

That’s a very poor result at home by any standards.

We also know it’s a long campaign with twists and turns.

But this really does feel like an early crossroads moment. Can VI get more variety out of the team, or will the slide in form and results settle into a pattern?

We should know more once another half dozen games have gone by but I think we should hold back on drawing any firm conclusions for now. We don’t yet know.

[boinging_along]

The worrying thing in positions like this, is that it seems so glaringly obvious that Millwall and Derby had come with a plan to nullify our tactics but we don't seem able to react to it.  Other sides are going to look at us and think a point will be a decent result so it's an easy decision for them to just hit it long.  Throw in our defence which could give away a goal under any circumstances then you can see why other teams will do it.

The saving grace is that for the last 20 mins or so last night we did seem to try getting it down on the floor a bit more - so maybe there was an attempt to change styles a little after all?

[BigFrank20]

First half was poor with the aerial bombardment with the front 3 he picked who prefer to play quickly on the floor.
And finally booing at HT or FT when your top of the league is embarrassing ffs

It was quite disquieting as the first half progressed last night to feel and hear the low level disquiet keep building and rippling through the Smethwick as more and more aerial balls got lobbed forward. I unfortunately missed the Millwall match so lacked the pre loading that many of those around me suffered on Saturday

[NJS]

Saw a slice of the Bournemouth - QPR game on Nowtv.

Their second goal was stunning.  Moving the ball through midfield then coming in from the right attracting defenders, transferring to the left, get behind the defence, pass across, Solanke runs between two central defenders and scores .   Apart from the initial switch to an unmarked played on the right, the ball stayed on the ground the whole time. 

The competition looks strong.   

[Cantello]

I fear we've been sussed and there's no plan B.

[Hull Baggie]

1st half was dreadful, just watched the keepers kick the ball to each other for most of it.

Second half we tried to do what we should have done from the off, that is play it on the ground. This would have suited Robinson but we subbed him. When you only have 3 subs to make I'm not sure it's that wise to use 2 of them at half time.

We created plenty of chances and on another night would have scored 2, 3 or 4.

Livermore lucky to not get a second yellow (I assume that's why he was subbed) but otherwise he had another good game. Played some decent forward passes and was solid in the middle.

Diangana is starting to look more like the player we had before, he was better in the second half but he needs to work on his end product. Reach played well but like Diangana needs to work on his end product. Would like to see both cut inside and shoot more.

We have plenty of players who can score from the edge of the box (proven in the past for doing it) but we don't even try to shoot from there that often.

It's frustrating at times watching us try and play at 100mph when we could slow it down a bit and be more effective.

At home sides are going to try and nullify us like Millwall and Derby have done , we need to be more intelligent and be able to break them down. Away from home most sides will try and attack us which generally plays into our hands.

We are definitely missing Clarke and O'Shea both at the back and as attacking options.

Thought the atmosphere was very subdued last night too. It was almost as if the fans were waiting for the players to give us something to sing about and the players wanted the fans to give them an atmosphere to play in.

[Baggies]

Very early on I said I was worried it wouldn’t translate either.  Like you I’m now pretty confident it won’t. .

We’d look like Millwall did on Saturday, only Prem sides would take advantage. Lump it forwards, get played through, penned and repeat.

Is there another way of looking at it though?

We looked decent in our first 3 games, against 3 sides aiming for top 6 finishes. Luton and Sheff Utd in particular tried to play football against us which allowed us to use the press effectively and create a lot of scoring opportunities. Barnsley had the advantage last season of sides rarely sitting back against them and they were able to get into the playoffs with a limited first 11. Further evidence has Ismael’s LASK team reaching the last 16, hammering a Bruno Fernandes led Sporting club de Portugal 3-0 and PSV 4-1 on the way.

Our difficulties have come vs P’boro, Milwall and now Derby, all of whom set up very defensively, looked to get rid of the ball as quickly as they could and for large phases of the game didn’t really commit many men forward.

Now which style of approach are we likely to face in the event of promotion? Will premier league sides sit deep against the small budgeted WBA, or will they more often than not play on the front foot with the ball being passed out from the back?

At the moment we are lacking a couple of key players to make this work - one being a centre forward and another I’d argue being a midfielder with more creativity who can play as part of the front 3. In the premier league we will have more money and might be able to buy somebody to make it work.

I’m not saying it definitely works in the prem, but there is more evidence that it works well vs footballing sides who push forward than there is that it works vs defensive ones. I don’t think we can take Milwall’s and Derby’s tactics as evidence it doesn’t work at a higher level.

Ultimately, we will be one of the poorest sides in the division in the event of promotion. There is no evidence that we have either the scouting system or the clever boardroom level operators to make up the gap on those who have more spending power and so in the short to medium term atleast, Ismael’s slightly unique approach might well be our best bet.

My bigger concern is how you get out of the division playing in such a one dimensional way. He needs to show his managerial ability now and work out a fix.

[seteefeet]

I fear we've been sussed and there's no plan B.

Surely the second half was plan B?
We changed personnel, approach and intent and, let's be honest, battered them.
The problem is not creating chances, it's who those chances are falling to. Yes Furlong had 3 gilt edged chances and should have scored at least one, but, he's a full back, it's not his forte. The best finishers we have are probably Grant and Robinson, neither of whom were on the pitch when we finally started to play. We need to replicate yesterday's "Plan B" from the start when the natural finishers are on the pitch and make sure they are the ones in position when the chances arrive.

It is still a learning curve and I honestly think Val is still working out his best approach and personnel. First few games we looked great going forward but dodgy at the back, now we look more solid at the back but dodgy going forward. Hopefully he can find the right balance in the not too distant.

Still top, for now, though, so can't be too downhearted, but we do need to fall into a settled rhythm.

[Atomic]

1st half was dreadful, just watched the keepers kick the ball to each other for most of it.

Second half we tried to do what we should have done from the off, that is play it on the ground. This would have suited Robinson but we subbed him. When you only have 3 subs to make I'm not sure it's that wise to use 2 of them at half time.

We created plenty of chances and on another night would have scored 2, 3 or 4.

Livermore lucky to not get a second yellow (I assume that's why he was subbed) but otherwise he had another good game. Played some decent forward passes and was solid in the middle.

Diangana is starting to look more like the player we had before, he was better in the second half but he needs to work on his end product. Reach played well but like Diangana needs to work on his end product. Would like to see both cut inside and shoot more.

We have plenty of players who can score from the edge of the box (proven in the past for doing it) but we don't even try to shoot from there that often.

It's frustrating at times watching us try and play at 100mph when we could slow it down a bit and be more effective.

At home sides are going to try and nullify us like Millwall and Derby have done , we need to be more intelligent and be able to break them down. Away from home most sides will try and attack us which generally plays into our hands.

We are definitely missing Clarke and O'Shea both at the back and as attacking options.

Thought the atmosphere was very subdued last night too. It was almost as if the fans were waiting for the players to give us something to sing about and the players wanted the fans to give them an atmosphere to play in.

The atmosphere was awful back to usual following good atmosphere's first two home games.

God knows what sort of home advantage you get when all you can hear is the away fans. Terrible Smethwick and Brummie.

[Cantello]

Where's a Kevin Phillips when you need him?