[skyclad99]

This was an important week for us with three very winnable games. Seven points would have been acceptable, but we got 2 - that's relegation form. The addition of one striker is not going to change this, that is one hell of a mess on the pitch and it is apparent that the players are not buying into the system.
There was a caller on WM last night who summed it up for me. She said 'three years ago I was watching Dwight Gayle and Harvey Barnes, two years ago I was watching Matteus Pereira, and now I am watching Jordan Hugill'. Says it all for me.
Surely the clowns on the board can see that we are going to miss any chance of promotion by a country mile at this rate?

[skyclad99]

Of course we have been worse with Livermore recently.  He has 1 assist and 0 goals all season in a team going for promotion.  Molumby is the future, will get better. Livermore is yesterday's man, old slow and little skill.

Cannot say I have seen the difference to be honest, Jake has not been in our last two performances and we were rubbish in both. I am not seeing anything in Molumby that clearly makes him better at this time.

We all get that you don't like Jake, but to go on about him when we turn out two poor displays like that [which fielded virtually everyone's first choice midfield duo] is pointless. 

[KN22]

Of course we have been worse with Livermore recently.  He has 1 assist and 0 goals all season in a team going for promotion.  Molumby is the future, will get better. Livermore is yesterday's man, old slow and little skill.

Not sure if you were at the game last night? Absolutely no way did Molumby play well. You wanted Jakes contract cancelled when he was harshly sent off last week. Shall we do same with Molumby? Just asking…..

[OverLandAndSea]

Not sure if you were at the game last night? Absolutely no way did Molumby play well. You wanted Jakes contract cancelled when he was harshly sent off last week. Shall we do same with Molumby? Just asking…..

Did Molumby touch the ball?

At least Livermore never hides.

[KN22]

Did Molumby touch the ball?

At least Livermore never hides.

Not many times, and did nothing positive when he did touch the ball.

[GREGMT]

Livermore cannot play 90 mins, we lose games late on with him playing like Stoke and Swansea away.  Molumby is the future, Livermore is the past.

We carve out more shots on goal with Molumby. Posted 41 shots in the last 2 games and you want Livermore, so we can be even more defensive and have less shots?

[baggiemart]

Realistically then, despite the stupidly long contract, a defeat to Coventry and it’s surely pack your bag time?

I get the fact our team isn’t great, but just concentrate on the manager, one who hasn’t changed a system in a game once all season, it’s pathetic, stubborn and laughable. I can’t even remembering him switching any players around on the pitch whilst keepi BG the formation, it’s Sunday league stuff.

The owners are terrible, the players a poor version of what we’ve had before, but ultimately the manager is the poorest of the lot in my opinion, his ‘philosophy’ just wouldn’t happen in any other club, in any other job even. It’s just, this doesn’t work, but I’ll continue anyway as it may come right in 3 years time in League 1. Absolute garbage and cannot understand how he’s still her. Pundits can all see it, players it looks like can see it too.

There were plenty of options in the Summer, there’s a handful now, how we’ve got this guy is as embarrassing as having Hugill as our only striker.

It will make no difference if they sack the manager, which I think they won't because of the length of his contract, the players are just rubbish. They are the ones we need to get rid of !!!

There is people on here criticising the manager because of his tactics but its those tactics that has produced 60 shots at goal over the past 3 games. Of those 60 shots only about 12 were on target and none were goals. How on earth can you blame the manager for the poor shooting of our forward players !

If you look at the last three matches if we had converted just 10% of the shots we had we would have scored 6 goals. 2 in each match, 9 points and this board would have changed its tone !!

Can you blame the manager for Hugill ballooning the ball over the bar in the last minute when he should have at least got it on target.  Can you blame him for Molumby jumping into a tackle when he was already on a yellow card !!! 

It was like last season when Big Sam came in, we were still getting battered until he got his loan players in during January.

As far as the manager options are , Ismael was our 4th choice. Do you think managers will be queueing up to take the job !!!  Look at the managers we have had over the last few seasons. We have probably had more managers than any other club which will put a lot of managers off coming here.

[mini gaardsoe]

You pick any stat you like to say if this happened etc. the facts are he’s in charge of a team playing horrible football and early results have tailed off. He’s tactically useless (only has one) and for me it’s apparent the players have lost faith, they are being asked to do stuff that they can’t do and it’s a complete shambles. This is the worst manager we could have hired, no question.

[SmethDan]

Couple of general points having skim read the thread. If we didn't create any clear cut chances last night I must have imagined those ballooned attempts from Grant, Hurlong and Hugill. How Dandy Darnell gets into that side ahead of TGH after his debacle of a performance at Blackpool is beyond my level of comprehension.

We can mention anticipation as much as we like, but crosses played into a box when none of our players are there serve little purpose beyond hoping for own goals or corners via deflections or to highlight a lack of central forward options. Neither are sensible tactics so this is where in game intelligence comes into play.

And what is this tactical ploy where Johnstone hangs onto the ball with a view to passing to Clarke once he has a man on him? Who cloned Diangana with a clueless child and who's telling Robinson to take extra touches? I honestly don't have a clue beyond confused thinking and poor decision making. This can't all be down to the manager. We've got too many players hiding in plain sight.

[baggiemart]

You pick any stat you like to say if this happened etc. the facts are he’s in charge of a team playing horrible football and early results have tailed off. He’s tactically useless (only has one) and for me it’s apparent the players have lost faith, they are being asked to do stuff that they can’t do and it’s a complete shambles. This is the worst manager we could have hired, no question.

Thats true the players are being  asked to do what they are not capable of doing ..............  PLAYING FOOTBALL  !!

[wba1993dave]

We could do a lot better than this guy. Heck I would be begging the last manager to come back on a 6 month deal. It really is that bad.

[WBArgo]

Couple of general points having skim read the thread. If we didn't create any clear cut chances last night I must have imagined those ballooned attempts from Grant, Hurlong and Hugill. How Dandy Darnell gets into that side ahead of TGH after his debacle of a performance at Blackpool is beyond my level of comprehension.

We can mention anticipation as much as we like, but crosses played into a box when none of our players are there serve little purpose beyond hoping for own goals or corners via deflections or to highlight a lack of central forward options. Neither are sensible tactics so this is where in game intelligence comes into play.

And what is this tactical ploy where Johnstone hangs onto the ball with a view to passing to Clarke once he has a man on him? Who cloned Diangana with a clueless child and who's telling Robinson to take extra touches? I honestly don't have a clue beyond confused thinking and poor decision making. This can't all be down to the manager. We've got too many players hiding in plain sight.

I agree with this, BUT Forrest also had their fair share of chances too (Grabban at the very end) plus one striker missed a sitter in the air second half and they had a decent shot Johnstone tipped over. In the first half they had a good counter that their winger messed up badly too, with another chance from a sloppy pass by Bartley.

My point is, a draw was fair in the end, as it was against Blackpool. We're not doing enough to beat the opposition and we still don't make enough chances. If we'd have had triple their chances then fair enough but it wasn't the case. Ultimately we just don't do enough in attack and that's why we are where we are.

[ex coseley kid]

We could do a lot better than this guy. Heck I would be begging the last manager to come back on a 6 month deal. It really is that bad.

Yes it is. THAT bad.

[johnny Cash]

We desperately need a proper goal scorer. This team transforms with one. Forest aren’t a bad side at this level,  and yet until the sending off we could barely string a pass together and still controlled the game.

With that said, Until Jan VI needs to work with what he’s got and find some tactics going forwards that suit what we have and create better chances. He’s looking like a poor manager at present who had got away with having better players but now it’s catching up with him.

[ex coseley kid]

Until Jan VI needs to work with what he’s got ...

While I agree with what you are saying I don't believe VI is going to get anything worth having in January. Not with short-arms-deep-pockets running the $#1T-show.

[iwastherein68]

He needs to be replaced in my opinion, but please recruit a new manager before pressing the button. No Morrison / Brunt combo thank you.

[WorcsWBA]

Heck I would be begging the last manager to come back on a 6 month deal. It really is that bad.

I love how nothing last season was Allardyce's fault (4 wins in 26) and yet everything this season is Ismael's fault (4 defeats in 20).

[SmethDan]

I agree with this, BUT Forrest also had their fair share of chances too (Grabban at the very end) plus one striker missed a sitter in the air second half and they had a decent shot Johnstone tipped over. In the first half they had a good counter that their winger messed up badly too, with another chance from a sloppy pass by Bartley.

My point is, a draw was fair in the end, as it was against Blackpool. We're not doing enough to beat the opposition and we still don't make enough chances. If we'd have had triple their chances then fair enough but it wasn't the case. Ultimately we just don't do enough in attack and that's why we are where we are.

Cheers for the reply, your first paragraph may inadvertently have highlighted my point. For me Grabban walks into our team as the starting central forward. He's better equipped for that role than Phillips and a better fit for our system than Hugill.

And yet he fails to convert a late chance against an exhausted ten man side. As for Johnstone's save it was a good reaction to a deflection off Clarke as opposed to a response to a wonderfully crafted shot.

In an ideal world and with the apparent wage budget at our disposal Grabban shouldn't even be getting on for us from the bench though. I disagree that we didn't create enough to win last night because we clearly did.

The game itself was played in poor conditions. It still wouldn't have been remotely easy on the eye regardless but the chances to win were there for the taking. The fact they weren't taken was down to poor technique rather than at times eye bleedingly stubborn tactics.

The issue isn't just aesthetic it goes higher. I don't enjoy this mish mash of styles. I don't enjoy watching players taking the wrong options during games and I enjoy the fact that some of them are on our books far less. The real problems at Albion are higher up the food chain than Valerian Ismael. And as for the style of football itself he didn't recruit himself.

[wbastrollers]

Cheers for the reply, your first paragraph may inadvertently have highlighted my point. For me Grabban walks into our team as the starting central forward. He's better equipped for that role than Phillips and a better fit for our system than Hugill.

And yet he fails to convert a late chance against an exhausted ten man side. As for Johnstone's save it was a good reaction to a deflection off Clarke as opposed to a response to a wonderfully crafted shot.

In an ideal world and with the apparent wage budget at our disposal Grabban shouldn't even be getting on for us from the bench though. I disagree that we didn't create enough to win last night because we clearly did.

The game itself was played in poor conditions. It still wouldn't have been remotely easy on the eye regardless but the chances to win were there for the taking. The fact they weren't taken was down to poor technique rather than at times eye bleedingly stubborn tactics.

The issue isn't just aesthetic it goes higher. I don't enjoy this mish mash of styles. I don't enjoy watching players taking the wrong options during games and I enjoy the fact that some of them are on our books far less. The real problems at Albion are higher up the food chain than Valerian Ismael. And as for the style of football itself he didn't recruit himself.

Thanks for that Dan. Entirely my thoughts put to paper far better then I could - particularly the very last sentence !

[hardtobeat]

Agree with all of this Dan. I thought we bossed the game from start to sending off and honestly can’t remember Johnstone having anything serious to do until we went down to 10men. 11 v 11 we managed to create 3 or 4 good chances that we were wasted Grant and Furlongs being the most obvious .
The biggest problems at the club are way over VI’s head . We are a rudderless ship gliding towards the rocks with nobody manning the bridge or looking in the least bit likely to be able to. Xmas 4 game period  and then the transfer window looming and not a scoob doo who is running the club or what the approach and plan is.
 Unfortunately our fan base seems to think we should be in the automatic promotion race with a vastly inferior squad to last time and a squad which has been decimated in numbers ,quality and depth.
Do I think VI is a good / great coach no do I think the squad would do better under somebody else , not really , do I see the point in sacking him only if he has totally lost the dressing room, but based strictly on results no , am I happy with performances again no but I place the blame more on the players and the above mentioned squad limitations than I do on VI . Also I see no glaringly obvious realistic replacement waiting in the wings

[wodenson46]

I love how nothing last season was Allardyce's fault (4 wins in 26) and yet everything this season is Ismael's fault (4 defeats in 20).

Just this - well said sir!
Plus what it cost in financial terms to bring the Allardyce effect here is one of the reasons we have nothing to spend now. But even he realised we were so short of talent up front and in the middle of the park that even the loan of a couple of standard ability professionals to add to the brilliance of MP was essential to getting even those four wins.

VI has no MP and nothing like Yokuslu or Diagne so he has to get the whole lot of them playing with more intensity than the opposition to try to make up for the general lack of talent. It is not pretty but basically it's all we have, until suitable additions can be made to help enhance what little talent we do have in the team.  Oh and it will have to have no costs attached as well won't it?  Can't see it happening myself, but doubt if changing the manager is the answer.

[LiamTheBaggie]

I’ve seen enough to know that this man is not going to change anything and is going to persevere with this mind numbing, depressing boring style of football. You have to work with what you have and if you cannot shoe horn them into what you want then you need to change.

Val out.

[mulliganstired]

Feel free to correct me, last night was the first time I have managed to watch a whole game on a decent picture for a while.

So we have 4 players instructed to stay out wide, 2 forwards and 2 full backs, none of whom expect Townsend seem able to hold onto the ball for more than about 3 seconds.  This leaves us overrun in midfield when we lose the ball.  Also almost all of our forwards are better receiving the ball deep and running with it - certainly Grant, Robinson, Phillips and Diangana (when he doesn't trip over his own feet these days), but they are told to stay as far forward as possible and wait for the ball to be launched at their station. 

Hugill might be good at something, I'm not sure, maybe tiling or mending bicycle tyres.

It's stupid to just not change something during matches, something, anything, it was basically embarrassing last night.

[hardtobeat]

I’ve seen enough to know that this man is not going to change anything and is going to persevere with this mind numbing, depressing boring style of football. You have to work with what you have and if you cannot shoe horn them into what you want then you need to change.

Val out.

Problem is Liam this squad is so poor nobody else is likely to do any better . Change for changes sake is not a good option. Just who realistically do you think is going to take the job with this owner . If the sacking did come to pass I know who I would like to see given the job but i would like him to get more than 20 games !

[WorcsWBA]

I’ve seen enough to know that this man is not going to change anything and is going to persevere with this mind numbing, depressing boring style of football. You have to work with what you have and if you cannot shoe horn them into what you want then you need to change.

Terrible finishing aside, how many attempts at goal do we need to have before it becomes entertaining? Only Fulham are averaging more attempts on goal than we are this season in the Championship.