[Dexy]

You just contradicted yourself, first you said everyone knows MP is talented, then you admitted some don't rate MP!

Yes a different view - bashing MP because he wants to leave and being immature in saying he's no good!  Whether he's a WBA player or not you should have an objective view.

I'm different because this situation could've been averted had we given Bilic the tools to do the job ie signing Orsic amongst others.  A £30m net spend last seaaon has created this scenario.

Show me where I admit some don't rate him , you make things up .
I'm afraid as with any forum you'll get views you agree with and ones you don't .
You are now saying about the way the club was run during the Summer , I pointed that out to you 4 or 5 messages ago and you dismissed it .
End of the day if you don't like things on here either don't reply or reply with some content , it's that simple.

[GREGMT]

Talking about players like JWP and Buendia doesn't equal not rating Pereira though! I can't remember who first mentioned a JWP bid being declined but I thought it'd be interesting to compare their stats. What I'm trying to do is logically attach a price to Mattheus Pereira that i think other clubs will pay, not what I think he's worth.

The simple fact is that this price range you are placing him in is a price range that players have had to sustain good form in the top level for more than a season. Pereira was at his best from the Wolves game onwards. that's less than half a season I think. If that was sustained over another season in the Prem, then I'm with you. Yes he was great in the Championship and I've very much loved watching him and having him at the club, but an outsider looking in that hasn't watched every single minute of every single game will be looking at it differently, and objectively.

It's just logical - he's not going for that price. His price is firmly in a similar region to Benrahma and Buendia. Tops.

Am I being completely blind GREGMT - I really haven't seen many here bashing Pereira and saying they don't rate him.

And let's not get into a Bilic debate please 

Mate you should know better.

In that it is massively harder to play as a star player in a poor team.  That's what MP has had to endure.

Check how Buendia did in that rubbish Norwich team, he sank without trace.  Ward Prowse is playing in a superior So'ton team, it makes a BIG difference.

MP stats were phenomenal last season for playing in such a poor team. And we know MP would have been EVER BETTER for having extra quality around him last season.

Why does someone have to do it for 2 or 3 seasons before being acknowledged?

[lewisant]

Mate you should know better.

In that it is massively harder to play as a star player in a poor team.  That's what MP has had to endure.

Check how Buendia did in that rubbish Norwich team, he sank without trace.  Ward Prowse is playing in a superior So'ton team, it makes a BIG difference.

MP stats were phenomenal last season for playing in such a poor team. And we know MP would have been EVER BETTER for having extra quality around him last season.

Why does someone have to do it for 2 or 3 seasons before being acknowledged?

I think Pereira is fantastic and should cost someone at least £35 million and from what i can see he's better than JWP but I don't watch Norwich and Saints week in week out so I don't really know what their in-game contribution is. Buendia didn't score as much as Pereira in the Prem you're right. That Prem season is sandwiched between 2 very impressive Championship seasons stats-wise.

I just think he'll go for £20-25 million. I don't think he should, but I think that's what will happen. And I think there are a number of things impacting that price, pretty much all of which are nothing to do with my opinion of his ability.

[iwastherein68]

Getting boring now lads .....he dow wanna play for we, an worrever we get we bay going to to spend it any road. COYB

[Droitwich Baggie]

As with SJ. Will this put into his mind, that he is not so valuable as his agent thinks?

[baggiejohn]

He's only as valuable as someone will pay.

Character is normally as strong a criteria as ability, so I'd say his petulance will be a risk for a buyer. Not necessarily reducing his value, but certainly reducing the number of potential buyers prepared to take the risk.

IMO, the club see the sale of Pereria as the only way to offset the £23 million we lost in season 2019/20, that's why they've set a value of £25 to£30 million.

Financially, the club has made a profit if we get over £9 million.

[Dexy]

Mostly training on his own according to Madeley this morning , not a total outcast though .
Something really changed from those first weeks back , if its the offer from Saudi then blame them for not offering enough not the Albion .

[DaveWBA]

Surely the dynamics for this 'what is MP worth' debate are pretty simple. You would hope that the following is in place:

1. Despite saying he's happy with the squad Val has identified a couple of quality additions he would like to add, within a certain price range. Let's say £20m for 2/3 top Championship performers.
2. The sale of Pereira is what is going to generate the cash to sign the players who Val wants within his system and will contribute. As it stands I don't see where MP gets into this side, we need a target man and a midfielder far more than we need another attacking midfielder.
3. Pereira's value is not linked to Buendia, Ward-Prowse or Grealish. It is a better deal to sell for less than what we originally thought but to use the cash to bring in a couple of new additions than it is to hold out for £30m (that never arrives) and get saddled with a player that doesn't want to be here and doesn't fit our system.

If he's sold for £20m and the players we bring in with that cash contribute to us getting promoted, then we all forget this pointless discussion ever happen. Or we can hang on and lose him for even less next summer. The longer he's sulking with us, the less we get for him.

[baggie82]

Surely the dynamics for this 'what is MP worth' debate are pretty simple. You would hope that the following is in place:

1. Despite saying he's happy with the squad Val has identified a couple of quality additions he would like to add, within a certain price range. Let's say £20m for 2/3 top Championship performers.
2. The sale of Pereira is what is going to generate the cash to sign the players who Val wants within his system and will contribute. As it stands I don't see where MP gets into this side, we need a target man and a midfielder far more than we need another attacking midfielder.
3. Pereira's value is not linked to Buendia, Ward-Prowse or Grealish. It is a better deal to sell for less than what we originally thought but to use the cash to bring in a couple of new additions than it is to hold out for £30m (that never arrives) and get saddled with a player that doesn't want to be here and doesn't fit our system.

If he's sold for £20m and the players we bring in with that cash contribute to us getting promoted, then we all forget this pointless discussion ever happen. Or we can hang on and lose him for even less next summer. The longer he's sulking with us, the less we get for him.

Sell him for £20m, you cannot be serious. Why would we sell him for less than that next summer when he would still have two years left on his contract and Premiership clubs would have bigger budgets?

Have you called up Daniel Levy yet and advised him to sell Harry Kane for £40m?

[SmethDan]

.....2. The sale of Pereira is what is going to generate the cash to sign the players who Val wants within his system and will contribute. As it stands I don't see where MP gets into this side, we need a target man and a midfielder far more than we need another attacking midfielder.......

If Val's determined to play three up front and Matheus Pereira stays just play him as the central forward with Grant and Diangana either side. Play it to feet from midfield and let the goals commence. We could do far worse.

[DaveWBA]

Sell him for £20m, you cannot be serious. Why would we sell him for less than that next summer when he would still have two years left on his contract and Premiership clubs would have bigger budgets?

Have you called up Daniel Levy yet and advised him to sell Harry Kane for £40m?

Whatever cash we can generate from his sale that we can reinvest in this squad = good deal for West Bromwich Albion. As I say, should that be the case and we get promoted, will you be sulking over the transfer fee or will you be joining in the celebrations?

Pereira spends a year out of our side, he is not going to be worth as much. PL clubs will also have had the opportunity to watch him sulk for 12 months, not a good look.

Are you familiar with the phrase "cutting your nose to spite your face"?

You're point regarding Daniel Levy is fair enough - I forgot we were in a comparable situation to Spurs. Apples and oranges, compare and contrast.

[DaveWBA]

If Val's determined to play three up front and Matheus Pereira stays just play him as the central forward with Grant and Diangana either side. Play it to feet from midfield and let the goals commence. We could do far worse.

Val to change his system to suit a player who's spent the first six weeks of his tenure sulking and training on his own. Doesn't seem the wisest, or most likely.

[SmethDan]

Val to change his system to suit a player who's spent the first six weeks of his tenure sulking and training on his own. Doesn't seem the wisest, or most likely.

I didn't suggest a change of system to suit Pereira. I suggested playing Pereira as the central striker of the three pronged attack should he not be sold. He's not a target man so play it to feet.

If he's on the books and wants to keep other teams interested in his abilities then play him. He loves playing football and he loves scoring. If he's here then use him.

[colinmax]

Most of us agree that Pereira is good.There is no guarantee that if we sell him and buy other players they will be any good for us and we could easily fritter the money away.

[DaveWBA]

I didn't suggest a change of system to suit Pereira. I suggested playing Pereira as the central striker of the three pronged attack should he not be sold. He's not a target man so play it to feet.

If he's on the books and wants to keep other teams interested in his abilities then play him. He loves playing football and he loves scoring. If he's here then use him.

If he stays then I hope you're right, but I can't see it.

He's just been told to train on his own as he's not willing to embrace the new style/sessions.

[tambag]

He's only as valuable as someone will pay.

Character is normally as strong a criteria as ability, so I'd say his petulance will be a risk for a buyer. Not necessarily reducing his value, but certainly reducing the number of potential buyers prepared to take the risk.

IMO, the club see the sale of Pereria as the only way to offset the £23 million we lost in season 2019/20, that's why they've set a value of £25 to£30 million.

Financially, the club has made a profit if we get over £9 million.

I thought the club kept part of last seasons budget to offset the losses from the season before.  With Ken stating at the shareholder meeting that a dividend is going to be paid to help clear this loan off, that means we are going to declare a profit on the next lot of results.  I wouldn't take anything less than 20 million and the Saudi's are taking the mick trying to buy a sportscar with a family car budget !

[seteefeet]

I didn't suggest a change of system to suit Pereira. I suggested playing Pereira as the central striker of the three pronged attack should he not be sold. He's not a target man so play it to feet.

If he's on the books and wants to keep other teams interested in his abilities then play him. He loves playing football and he loves scoring. If he's here then use him.

He'd have to practice his shooting Dan, because, as good as he is, that was not his strong point last year, especially in and around the box. Him and Gallacher threatened the pigeons more than the net on many occasions.

[SmethDan]

He'd have to practice his shooting Dan, because, as good as he is, that was not his strong point last year, especially in and around the box. Him and Gallacher threatened the pigeons more than the net on many occasions.

So did Diagne and it didn't stop loads on here falling over themselves when it was suggested we may be able to get him back for this season. To be honest I'd stick Matheus in goal if it came to it, couldn't be any worse on crosses and corners than England's number whatever he is    .

[baggiejohn]

I thought the club kept part of last seasons budget to offset the losses from the season before.

Can't remember seeing that anywhere. I'm expecting the figures for season 20/21 to be worse than 19/20.

  With Ken stating at the shareholder meeting that a dividend is going to be paid to help clear this loan off, that means we are going to declare a profit on the next lot of results.  I wouldn't take anything less than 20 million and the Saudi's are taking the mick trying to buy a sportscar with a family car budget !

I'm not sure he said a dividend would be paid, I believe it was an illustration on how it could be paid.
If the club did go down that route, they would have to generate a profit from sales of around £7 million (£5 million holdings, £1 million minority shareholders, £1 million corporation tax). which would come out of the club & not be available for players.

I understand the club have now received an offer from Al H of around £17 million, so we're getting there.

[baggie82]

I understand the club have now received an offer from Al H of around £17 million, so we're getting there.

How do you know that?

[seteefeet]

So did Diagne and it didn't stop loads on here falling over themselves when it was suggested we may be able to get him back for this season. To be honest I'd stick Matheus in goal if it came to it, couldn't be any worse on crosses and corners than England's number whatever he is    .

Fair point, Matty "balloon foot" missed a few an all and he appears to be first choice now! 

[alex1]

The worst scenario is Pereira gets sold just before the transfer window slams shut and we can't re-invest the funds. Therefore, the club have to give a clear deadline for when others can submit bids and stick to it. 
If we don't get an acceptable bid within that timeframe which matches our valuation, he will have to be re-integrated into the squad. It would be madness for him to be sitting in the stands or playing for the U23s. Plenty of examples of players having to re-adapt to staying. 

[johnny Cash]

Can't remember seeing that anywhere. I'm expecting the figures for season 20/21 to be worse than 19/20.

I'm not sure he said a dividend would be paid, I believe it was an illustration on how it could be paid.
If the club did go down that route, they would have to generate a profit from sales of around £7 million (£5 million holdings, £1 million minority shareholders, £1 million corporation tax). which would come out of the club & not be available for players.

I understand the club have now received an offer from Al H of around £17 million, so we're getting there.

The press are reporting that he definitely said a dividend will be paid. The birmingham mail have published another story today which states:

It was proposed that the loan would be repaid before the end of the year after a dividend had been declared to shareholders, which included those who make up S4A, and could fully fund the independent investigation

It will probably make its way in to the Lai thread but the shareholders deemed this method to be ‘wholly inappropriate’ and those present indicated that, should they receive a dividend, they would use it to re-invest in the club at the earliest opportunity.

[Mooncat]

Villa reportedly on the verge of flogging Grealish for £100m - so they may yet still be interested too

[tambag]

Villa reportedly on the verge of flogging Grealish for £100m - so they may yet still be interested too

Villa only nick our youngsters for cheap fee's !