Author Topic: Guochuan Lai  (Read 1622121 times)

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paulosull

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7275 on: July 25, 2021, 06:32:36 PM »
For such an allegedly 'well run club', we never seem to have any money.
that's my feeling also promotion seems to do little to our fortunes

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7276 on: July 25, 2021, 06:36:46 PM »
that's my feeling also promotion seems to do little to our fortunes

Our flex contracts sort of work against us (while preventing serious issues upon relegation if they weren't there)... They flex down to the maximum we can afford in the Championship and flex up to the maximum we can afford in the Premier League, would be nice to have some wiggle room in both divisions...
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baggiejohn

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7277 on: July 25, 2021, 06:41:32 PM »
It was YE July 2017 we announced pre tax profits of £38m.

One thing I’ve noticed from 2016 (pre lai) is we paid a dividend to the holding company of £28m.  The E&S had a story in 2019 that supposedly explained it:

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/01/24/mysterious-27m-cash-transfer-between-west-brom-accounts-explained/

Obviously Lai then bought us and I wonder if it is in fact that money that has some point gone back in to the club accounts appears as money due to the owner?

I’m ok at reading / interpreting single year accounts, but where they move between companies and over multiple years i lose a grip on things because I don’t know enough about it all. Could anyone shed any light on this?

That might it’s just club money knocking around rather than money that should be due to Lai as such? (And that if he was to take it the S4A members would also be due?)

The profits made in y/e July 2017 would have been carried over as an opening figure in the following year. Messrs Williams, Goodman & Pulis managed to spend all of that.

TBH I'm not sure how the alleged £28 million dividend works as a security.
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California Dreaming

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7278 on: July 25, 2021, 06:48:39 PM »
Holdings is Lai’s company. The relevant accounts for us are WBA Group Ltd, 88% owned by Holdings and 12% by independent shareholders. Holdings distributable reserves would be their share of Group’s profits since Holdings was set up by Peace.

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7279 on: July 25, 2021, 07:11:59 PM »
Hi - sorry if I have quoted this incorrectly as this is my first post but not sure where the 31,565k comes from.  On the 13 month accounts ended 31/7/20 I have seen, the group balance sheet in WBA Holdings Ltd shows "capital and reserves" of 34,349k

24m of this is actually share premium account which isn't a distributable reserve.  The only amount that could be taken out as a dividend approx. £10m

You’ve mastered the quoting.

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johnny Cash

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7280 on: July 30, 2021, 05:59:35 PM »
Taking a decision that should shock nobody, the club have refused to launch a full scale investigation in to the 3.8m loan.

However, it has been said the the club will announce some dividends will be paid and that these dividends will be used by the holding company to pay the loan back.

This suggests despite relegation and COVID, we made a profit for the FY ending 31/7/21, although it could be next April before any accounts are published going by previous publications.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2021, 06:30:44 PM by johnny Cash »

tambag

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7281 on: July 30, 2021, 06:16:29 PM »
So what Ken is basically saying is the next set of accounts will show a profit so they can provide the shareholders with dividend's. 

The question is where will those profits come from ? Player sales, no investments into current squad ?

TheJacko2000

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7282 on: July 30, 2021, 06:24:02 PM »
So what Ken is basically saying is the next set of accounts will show a profit so they can provide the shareholders with dividend's. 

The question is where will those profits come from ? Player sales, no investments into current squad ?

The period in question has already happened.
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baggiejohn

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7283 on: July 30, 2021, 06:31:19 PM »
Taking a decision that should shock nobody, the club have refused to launch a full scale investigation in to the 3.8m loan.

However, it has been said the the club will announce some dividends will be paid and that these dividends will be used by the holding company to pay the loan back.

This suggests despite relegation and COVID, we made a provide for the FY ending 31/7/21, although it could be next April before any accounts are published going by previous publications.

Would it be possible to raise the cash from a share issue?
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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7284 on: July 30, 2021, 06:44:11 PM »
Would it be possible to raise the cash from a share issue?

I think a share issue would be something typically associated with a publicly floated company, which we aren’t.

Although I would imagine Lai could legally come up with a deal where he gave away part of his ownership on the basis an investor put cash in with an agreement this could be used to clear the debt. The question would be what’s the point for anyone new to own 5% of the club?

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7285 on: July 31, 2021, 07:20:28 AM »
.......However, it has been said the the club will announce some dividends will be paid and that these dividends will be used by the holding company to pay the loan back........

I'll start by acknowledging I'm no financial wizard. But if this is a doable thing I can't be alone in thinking it would have been better to do this when we had £40,000,000 sloshing about in the coffers at the start of the Pulis/Pardew relegation season.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. So is forward planning and paying off a loan before it gathers more interest. Too early for me to be thinking and I've finally got a game to go to. Here's hoping the rain holds off.
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baggiejohn

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7286 on: July 31, 2021, 08:36:02 AM »
I'm not sure how repaying this loan via a dividend is going to be advantageous to the football club.

To pay a dividend the football club is going to have to show a profit, which means that there will be corporation tax liabilities.

A dividend has to be paid to all shareholders, so for Lai to get (say) £5 million, the minority share holders would get around £1 million. Add in corporation tax of around £1 million, that's a sum of around £7 million.
The only place that can come from (as things stand) is the football club. :'(
It would be cheaper to write it off.
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overseas baggie

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7287 on: July 31, 2021, 09:39:11 AM »
I'm not sure how repaying this loan via a dividend is going to be advantageous to the football club.

To pay a dividend the football club is going to have to show a profit, which means that there will be corporation tax liabilities.

A dividend has to be paid to all shareholders, so for Lai to get (say) £5 million, the minority share holders would get around £1 million. Add in corporation tax of around £1 million, that's a sum of around £7 million.
The only place that can come from (as things stand) is the football club. :'(
It would be cheaper to write it off.

Not sure that writing it off would be in the interests of the minority shareholders, who have legal rights not to be unfairly prejudiced against.

paulosull

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7288 on: July 31, 2021, 11:59:56 AM »
All this showes me is that billionaire owner has got no wealth to speak of. Took a gamble on a premiership football club and lost big time. He's probably leveraged to the hilt to financial institutions with crippling interest rates and penalties. Anyone who thinks Pereira and Johnstone fees will be spent in transfer market needs a good head wobble.

baggie82

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7289 on: July 31, 2021, 01:39:15 PM »
All this showes me is that billionaire owner has got no wealth to speak of. Took a gamble on a premiership football club and lost big time. He's probably leveraged to the hilt to financial institutions with crippling interest rates and penalties. Anyone who thinks Pereira and Johnstone fees will be spent in transfer market needs a good head wobble.

Correct and JP lied through his teeth when he said he was selling the club to Lai so that the new owner could take the club onto the next level.

KnaveofAlbion

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7290 on: July 31, 2021, 01:42:30 PM »
In the interest of being a tiny bit fair the current owner/s are hating this too.

China stopping it's entrepreneur class from exporting money because to help in the football PR move they were doing really kicked all the clubs relying on it in the nuts.

Wolves are stalling and now downgrading players, as an example.

Its in nobody's interests that we're where we are. 
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baggie82

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7291 on: July 31, 2021, 08:45:45 PM »
In the interest of being a tiny bit fair the current owner/s are hating this too.

China stopping it's entrepreneur class from exporting money because to help in the football PR move they were doing really kicked all the clubs relying on it in the nuts.

Wolves are stalling and now downgrading players, as an example.

Its in nobody's interests that we're where we are.

They signed Jose Sa from Olympiakos for just £6.8m after selling Rui to Roma for £10.25m! They have also signed a Barcelona forward on loan (Francisco Trincao), signed Rayan Ait-Nouri for £10m and a Colombian defender Yerson Mosquera for £4.5 million. Mendes continues to supply them with some of the best players around at bargain prices.  The ambition and action of their owners could not be more different to Lai. Comparing Fosun and Lai is like comparing Walmart to a local corner shop.

Lai doesn't have the means or the inclination to invest in the club and only bought it on the basis he could make a quick profit and sell it on, JP of course had no interest whatsoever in the new owners limited plans as long as the buyer was prepared to pay him £175m, that's all he cared about.

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7292 on: August 04, 2021, 07:11:06 PM »
How is this siphoning off, going to happen?
Only way is a shares dividend or give Lai a massive salary, both unlikely

paulosull

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7293 on: August 04, 2021, 07:17:15 PM »
Bloke will try anything as alleged Dowling transfer story goes, Ishmael was brought to club as he can run club on shoe string but he'd better keep eye on that shoe string.

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7294 on: August 04, 2021, 07:24:31 PM »
Bloke will try anything as alleged Dowling transfer story goes, Ishmael was brought to club as he can run club on shoe string but he'd better keep eye on that shoe string.
keyword, there is no evidence.

paulosull

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7295 on: August 04, 2021, 07:35:46 PM »
How do you suggest  he(Lai) is going to do this .
undisclosed fee for a start

TheJacko2000

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7296 on: August 04, 2021, 07:39:55 PM »
undisclosed fee for a start

It's only undisclosed to fans, media and other clubs  :-X
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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7297 on: August 04, 2021, 07:52:18 PM »
would anyone ever report one figure to authorities while the real figure is higher?  No thought not !

Cough Brighton cough allegedly m'lud !
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paulosull

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7298 on: August 04, 2021, 08:03:04 PM »
It's only undisclosed to fans, media and other clubs  :-X
if seller and buyer agree that player is worth £25 million but club only receives £5 million who's any the wiser? Hasn't this been tried before?????

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #7299 on: August 04, 2021, 08:04:57 PM »
if seller and buyer agree that player is worth £25 million but club only receives £5 million who's any the wiser? Hasn't this been tried before?????

No, you are being silly to think football people are not all honest and above suspicion, silly boy !
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