Author Topic: Are we changing our starting line up too much?  (Read 6282 times)

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Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« on: January 01, 2013, 04:35:02 PM »
The first eleven has been impossible to pick these last 5 or 6 games with Clarke giving the side a major face lift every match recently. With injuries and the concentration of games over the holiday period, maybe it was something we could not avoid but it does seem to have hampered us today with the players looking like they could not string a pass together in the first half.

Is it now time for Clarke to try to pick a settled side over the next few weeks? No doubt QPR will see more changes but after that I would like to see us settle on more of a settled line up and see if that helps our play.
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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2013, 04:39:32 PM »
I totally agree mate.  Far too much chopping and changing.  Very hard to gel as a unit with so many changes.  It's almost as though SC is trying to keep too many players happy.



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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2013, 04:41:27 PM »
I think yes is the answer, the back four injuries/suspensions apart remains the same which is always a good thing but the midfield and forwards are getting swapped around too much.

I know its a squad game and you have to keep players interested/ fresh/ fit etc but its difficult for players to get a rhythm and consistent performances if they are getting left out after having decent games and in the case of strikers scoring goals. People have a pop at some players who come in but if its a game here and there, 10 minutes here and there then its difficult to get up to that standard needed.

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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2013, 04:44:54 PM »
I agree, I've said on another post that we need to go for a settled side, pick the best 11 and let them get familiar and comfortable with each other.
Too often the midfield and attack look like they haven't played together before.
The lack of wingers is also a particular worry, too often theres no outball available!
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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2013, 04:48:13 PM »
Doesn't Mourinho tinker with his sides regularly? If that's a trait that Clarke has picked up off Mourinho I hope he loses it quickly because he will soon realise the difference in quality at his disposal. I can't put a reason forward as to why certain players haven't showed up today, or recently in-fact, but you would assume that squad changes are playing a part in that. How can a team build up chemistry if the squad is changing frequently to make way for players with different attributes?
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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2013, 04:54:38 PM »
In fairness Clarke used to change the side regularly earlier in the season and the changes always seemed to benefit us. I quite like the concept of changing the attacking areas of the side depending on who you are playing and making it harder for the opposition to find a way to shut you out.

Earlier on the season however we had a very consistent back 7 (keeper, back 4 and holding players) and this is the area which has changed to much over recent weeks. Think when the games calm down and we get a fitter squad Clarke will return to keeping a consistent core to the side.

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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2013, 04:57:59 PM »
as much as i'd love us to keep the same team most weeks i just dont think its beneficial in the long run. players become tired and pick up too many injuries, especially over a hectic xmas/new year period. 

we switched it today and i thought the players still looked jaded...but players like brunt who've played most of the games recently looked dead on his feet.

problem was today our supposed fresh players just didnt play well either...gera, morrison, possibly ridgewell and mulumbu (although they were recently injured) all didnt perform anywhere near as well as they can.

i wish we could find a way of getting lukaku and long in the team....and its crystal clear to me that without Yacob and Olsson we're a very much weaker team!!  Theyre huge players for us!

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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2013, 05:02:39 PM »
Our midfield was shocking today, but I seriously doubt it was due to tinkering. They were simply not at the races and to me that is down to mental attitude and hunger, rather than tinkering.

Our players couldn't pass the ball, the didn't work hard, they didn't close down, they didn't have any urgency or tempo to their game.

It's the same thing every year in the same games. Our players are simply taking days off in certain games.

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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2013, 05:07:09 PM »
Our midfield was shocking today, but I seriously doubt it was due to tinkering. They were simply not at the races and to me that is down to mental attitude and hunger, rather than tinkering.

Our players couldn't pass the ball, the didn't work hard, they didn't close down, they didn't have any urgency or tempo to their game.

It's the same thing every year in the same games. Our players are simply taking days off in certain games.

Your second point is something I'd certainly agree with and something which has been a problem for us throughout the whole of the season so far. We are so sloppy in possession we are actually creating our own downfall. The way Fulham kept and maneuvered the ball was something to be admired but it was even more frustrating that we actually allowed them to do it. There was a 15 minute spell in the second half where we got amongst them and they didn't look as classy but unfortunately, that rhythm and momentum soon disappeared when they scored their second goal and from there on they controlled large parts of possession.

In the first half especially, there were too many culprits for giving the ball away cheaply and the attitude of some was incredibly disappointing.
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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2013, 05:08:51 PM »
fulham played last sat aswell and they hardly rested anyone, berba embarrased us. When at home you play your best players and not out of position, we have too many centre midfielders in our squad and for some reason we add a wide player too it( brunt )...the lack of width makes our 4-5-1 quite narrow when it's not suppose to be so were always trying to fit square pegs in round holes.....i'd try to get rid of some squad players and get quality width in. We all can see width is our problem.

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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2013, 05:09:42 PM »
Yes IMO , i think it's a major factor as to why we start games so slowly and look disjointed attacking wise sometimes.Clarke needs to realise we dont have the quality of a Chelsea to be able to pull this off , certainly Pete or Long must start just to give us some pace as seen how static we were with Lukaku today.Injuries happen and that's fair enough but 3/4 changes is just too many and that's one of my two gripes with SC so far , the other being lack of a genuine winger but that's another topic!
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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2013, 05:52:55 PM »
Your second point is something I'd certainly agree with and something which has been a problem for us throughout the whole of the season so far. We are so sloppy in possession we are actually creating our own downfall. The way Fulham kept and maneuvered the ball was something to be admired but it was even more frustrating that we actually allowed them to do it. There was a 15 minute spell in the second half where we got amongst them and they didn't look as classy but unfortunately, that rhythm and momentum soon disappeared when they scored their second goal and from there on they controlled large parts of possession.

In the first half especially, there were too many culprits for giving the ball away cheaply and the attitude of some was incredibly disappointing.
it looks like clarke tells the players to sit back as a team and try and counter when they the opposition lose the ball, thats why we never have more than 50% possesion in any game and when this dosnt work he brings on the strikers and nine times out of ten we get nothing from the game as we become stretched with players not tracking back. today we looked good after we scored but were unlucky with a few chances after that, this was the stage of the game when either long or pete should have been brought on and thorne put into midfield to help mulumbu as brunt was having a mare

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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2013, 06:04:35 PM »
I think another problem with the 'rotate the squad' policy is that players get game time even if they are not on form, or putting shifts in when they do play. This negates the competition part of the squad.

Then on top of that Clarke is forever taking the pressure off the players - "we'll get to 40 points and then take it from there" - regardless of our good start.

Again this takes the pressure off the players and they can relax knowing that they don't have to go 100% as our target is well within reach...

What happens then is what we see know, players not 100% up for games or putting shifts in game in and game out.

Mulumbu is one that isn't the 100% Mulumbu of old, half the time nowadays he is just jogging behind opponents or chasing shadows. I don't know what is wrong, if he is mentally saving himself for ANC but it is noticeable when he is putting in a shift and when he isn't - like today at the start of the second half when he pushed up higher in the pitch and helped put Fulham under pressure and not let them move the ball about at will.

The third problem is that we need to ALSO have an emphasis on possession football, and not only counter attacking football. We used to be good on the ball but we are not this season.

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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2013, 07:24:08 PM »
I find it odd that Clarke hasn't tried Odemwingie up front on his own, with all the squad rotation that has happened. Pete is by far our most dangerous forward, and is left out wide.


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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2013, 07:27:41 PM »
Not sure if Dorrans was injured to be honest, there was a rumour he threw a strop therefore wasnt selected in the squad.

But I felt Dorrans did enough against United to keep his place today.

My concern at the moment is more that players like Gera are starting every week when they seem to be struggling fitness wise and have done for a while now.



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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2013, 07:33:59 PM »
I find it odd that Clarke hasn't tried Odemwingie up front on his own, with all the squad rotation that has happened. Pete is by far our most dangerous forward, and is left out wide.

So move Odemwingie up front and leave our two top scorers on the bench?

Better on the right for me, from where he scored 10 goals last season.
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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2013, 09:45:42 PM »
Is really starting to concern me.

Why the hell would you leave Long & Odemwingie until 2nd half subs against a poor away team like Fulham?  What's wrong with going for the jugular at home?  We gave United too much respect 1st half also.

The midfield set-up is truly abysmal.  No one can pass accuarately on a regular basis and just 1 player is a tackler (Mulumbu).  We limped to victory against Norwich and QPR who are both poor sides and haven't won any others.

What is Fortune bringing to the table?  Why is Rosenberg brought in for certain games, if he's not doing it?  Dorrans gets dropped (rightly so) for mediocre performances, Brunt does the same and gets off scot-free, why?
Gera's drop in form is alarming, drop him!

Why do we have to go a goal down before responding?  Where's the motivation?  Where's the captain's leadership skills?

For crying out loud, give George Thorne a chance and Scott Allan if necessary.  Bomb out this clique and comfort zone players are operating in.

There's one place we're heading with today's team and that's the bottom half of this league.  Today was absolutely appalling and if we're truthful recent games have been close to it.


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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #17 on: January 01, 2013, 09:49:08 PM »
Yacob is a massive miss for us, he is a pivotal part of the team.

Fortune earned a run in the side for changing the game against Norwich and was excellent at QPR.

Long is carrying a niggling injury and is struggling at them moment.

Odemwingie has historically lost fitness at this stage of the season, we are obviously managing him.


All in all, making chances today wasn't a big issue, on another day we would have scored 3 goals in that game and not made one monumental cock up in what turned out to be one of Fulhams 3 attempts on goal all day.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 09:51:19 PM by RowleyBaggie2 »
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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #18 on: January 01, 2013, 09:52:54 PM »
I like Fortune. He works hard and invariably the player behind him seems to have a decent game. For Fortune to be effective - the central midfield trio - need to be on the "game". However I thought Brunt and Morrison were below par. Tactically Mulumbu seemed to be playing higher for the second half (opening twenty minutes) it was here we produced our best spell. Even on a below par day - Mulumbu brings drive and energy.

However I think we have to be on the front foot at home - we have been generally slow starters to matches this season. Odemwingie for me has to play at Home and I think Fortune for Away games. That may be a plan as we move along.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 09:56:23 PM by rajesh-wba »

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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #19 on: January 01, 2013, 09:54:38 PM »
I like Fortune. He works hard and invariably the player behind him seems to have a decent game. For Fortune to be effective - the central midfield trio - need to be on the "game". However I thought Brunt and Morrison were below par. Tactically Mulumbu seemed to be playing higher for the second half (opening twenty minutes) it was here we produced our best spell. Even on a below par day - Mulumbu brings drive and energy.

However I think when we have to be on the front foot at home - we have been generally slow starters to matches this season. Odemwingie for me has to play at Home and I think Fortune for Away games. That may be a plan as we move along.

You've summed it up for me, Marco needs the ball winner and distributor working well to feed him and today that wasn't happening.
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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #20 on: January 01, 2013, 09:57:48 PM »
Fortune also played well against Sunderland and was taken out of the next squad?
I agree that Yacob is very important but we played quite well the last two seasons without him.
The Rosenberg issue really concerns me, his first league start was v Stoke, not the easiest and no one played great, he then got dropped, then starts away at old Trafford (out of position) regardless of anyone's opinion on the guy , this does not appear great man management?
At the moment it seems like half the team is available for rotation(pete,long,Dorrans , Gera ) and that  others play regardless (mozza, brunt etc) , Ibeleive Steve Clarke will be a very good top flight manager but currently he is very similar to Lukaku, young, inexperienced, prone to making a bad decision and will learn, similarly they will both need the support rather than the vocal disappointment.....
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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #21 on: January 01, 2013, 10:05:27 PM »
So move Odemwingie up front and leave our two top scorers on the bench?

Better on the right for me, from where he scored 10 goals last season.
Or up top with lukaku or long as a two?
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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #22 on: January 01, 2013, 10:20:47 PM »
Because we struggle out wide the only ones who have shown to be effective are pete/gera......gera is 34 and already played left/right and behind striker... Dorrans is centre mid and always will be, abit of an identity problem with our squad with players dropped after a game or playing out of position.

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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #23 on: January 01, 2013, 10:25:09 PM »
We haven't been playing well for a few weeks now, well basically since Brunt came in for Yacob!

Why not play 2 up front when the midfield is so dysfunctional without Yacob?

Can Thorne be any worse than the present incumbents?  I think not.

I just think Clarke seems slow to pick up on it, when most of the fans can see what's wrong.  He seems to be getting too comfortable in the job. 

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Re: Are we changing our starting line up too much?
« Reply #24 on: January 01, 2013, 10:27:14 PM »
We haven't been playing well for a few weeks now, well basically since Brunt came in for Yacob!

Why not play 2 up front when the midfield is so dysfunctional without Yacob?

Can Thorne be any worse than the present incumbents?  I think not.

I just think Clarke seems slow to pick up on it, when most of the fans can see what's wrong.  He seems to be getting too comfortable in the job.

Yes he most certainly can, and whereas a Morrsion or Brunt has a thick skin when it's not going well this lad won't.
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