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Messages - johnny Cash

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General Football & Sports / Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« on: July 26, 2021, 08:19:32 PM »
Knight, Sibley, Bird and Buchanan are all reasonably rated youngsters. I bet their agents are itching to get them out.

You can only send 6 players over 22 out on loan. No restrictions on those under I don’t believe.

Really interesting piece, I suspect having made £200m and with players like Mount and Abraham having value Chelsea have still made profit though so will continue to do it even if a few kids do wise up to it. I also expect this sort of program is what Villa are looking to replicate, strike enough oil to justify the hoarding.

General Football & Sports / Re: Tokyo Olympics 2021
« on: July 26, 2021, 04:14:00 PM »
Through work and over the years, I've worked with a number of sporting bodies (FA, PGA, British Gymnastics, LTA, England Lacrosse, England Hockey, plus many more) and a number of them are clients of mine and the company i work for still.

I've therefore spoken to a number of senior people conversationally about all sorts of issues. To pick up on a couple of points briefly, most come back in the main to culture, but in no particular order....

The post 16 drop off in sport is massive in this country, particularly for women, infact for women it starts with puberty. Girls that do dance, gymnastics, athletics get sucked in to wanting to be popular, socialising and 'boys'. The major NGB's are always fighting against this but it seems like they are never winning. The government should do more because the long term effect on health, both mental and physical is well documented. Instead it seems like even standard PE is being reduced in general comprehensives.

Facilities is a problem as pointed out, Lacrosse now use Hockey pitch dimensions (I'm not sure if this is true at the top level) so that facilities can be multi purpose. The bodies try to address issues where they can but its tough and money isn't always forthcoming.   

Mark mentioned 'middle classes' I remember having a conversation about this a number of years ago and it was brought to my attention that most sport is, and always has been middle class.  Football is the big exception.  Historically it was the middle class that had the time, and even now it is quite often the middle class that get the opportunity, not necessarily because it is not available to all, but it is the parents who value it and the parents who put emphasis in to it for their children. 

Better educated kids tend to value it more as adults too, go to any evening netball league. You'll find most females still participating in their 20's are university educated, its not coincidence.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Semi Ajayi
« on: July 26, 2021, 03:08:55 PM »
He will be earning significantly more than that at Albion in my opinion. No facts to back it up but expect that he will earn north of £20k per week. Agree about the fee we should get.

I’m not sure. With a relegated Rotherham it’s not unreasonable to think he’s be on £5k or so. So coming to us for £1.5m we give him a big increase to £13k, and £26k in the prem. I don’t think he’s signed a new contract.

If we reject any norwich offer I expect we would see a new contract given. It may be agent driven for a new contract anyway.

I’d ask for £8m but sell for £6m to be honest.

Coronavirus Thread / Re: Vaccine passports
« on: July 26, 2021, 01:35:04 PM »
The law is there to be used and manipulated by clever lawyers.

If the law was black and white then why are there so many cases being won by individuale everyday !!

We will just have to wait and find out .

Absolutely, the law is often grey and often open to interpretation, and that is why we have a court system. We wouldnt need one if it wasnt!  This benefits both individuals and the system at times.

However if they go down this route and they have any sense, they will lock it down and leave little ambiguity.
You cannot always reclaim your costs either. For example, with defamation you have to go to the high court as a minimum, and you cannot reclaim costs even if you win. You are probably looking at costs of at least 15k minimum which is what puts defamation suits out of reach of most normal people.

They could easily take the ability to contest outside the scope of most normal people.  Certainly most people making these suggestions on social media would likely find there ability to bring these suits extremely limited.

Coronavirus Thread / Re: Vaccine passports
« on: July 26, 2021, 01:23:07 PM »
There is plenty there that companies can be taken to court with.

Pregnant women don't have the vaccine, People with various ailments such as cancer don't have the vaccine so that could be classed as a disability.  certain religions are against vaccines etc so they will have a case. Everybody else can just say they follow a certain religion and jump on that discrimination reason.

A lot of companies, including football clubs could have a lot of law suits to settle !!!

A lot of people seem to be suggesting that there will be law suits! I don't think people understand the way the law works when they make those claims.

If the government are to do it, I think they will almost certainly need legislation.  Once its legislated, its law. The courts job is not to make up the law, but interpret and enforce it. If its the law, there's no point going to court as you will have no grounds to win. You might be able to drum up some legal bills if you wish to find this out though.

General Football & Sports / Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD
« on: July 26, 2021, 01:01:25 PM »
Derby & Terry, marriage made in heaven  :-\

Derby would be a foolish move.  I didnt realise how much of a mess they were in until I read a story yesterday.

Apparently they only have 8 recognised first team players. They had been unable to sign anyone but the EFL have granted them permission to sign 4 players. They can only be loans or currently unemployed though and i suspect probably not on big wages.

The teams that play Derby early should have an advantage. Who knows if they will be allowed (or even able) to do more before the end of the window.  We play them shortly after the first international break in mid September.  Shame it isnt 3 weeks earlier.

Coronavirus Thread / Re: Vaccine passports
« on: July 25, 2021, 10:21:41 PM »
As it will be consultation with the league and the clubs I assume the clubs will agree to it thus exercising their rights to refuse entry without a vaccine.

People will exercise their rights not to have a vaccine and businesses will exercise their rights to refuse entry without a vaccine or without a negative test.

I don’t agree with the vaccine passports, but I do agree with everyone being able to exercise their rights.

Businesses are not being given a choice as far as I can tell. It is comply or don’t trade. That is not the same as a business having a choice. It’s not businesses exercising a right.

Coronavirus Thread / Re: Vaccine passports
« on: July 25, 2021, 08:40:35 PM »
Where people have a choice it cannot be discrimination , discrimination is being stopped from doing something because of something that is beyond your personal control.I do feel for those that cannot have the jab however I would imagine they will be asked to provide a negative test in some shape or form

Nonsense, you choose your faith and you can be discriminated against based on religion.

Coronavirus Thread / Re: Vaccine passports
« on: July 25, 2021, 08:15:27 PM »
I’m vaccinated and I suppose relatively pro vaccination but I am also pro choice. It is discrimination for me.

It’s attempting to make vaccination a ‘Hobson’s choice’ for both individuals and businesses. It’s almost forcing people to have an injection which is disgusting. Whether I agree with someone’s decision or not they should 100% and always have a choice about whether the put something foreign in their body or not without it affecting ‘normal life’

They won’t do it, and it would come with its own problems but choice would be allowing businesses the choice. It’s not a choice for a business at the moment if the choice is adhere or don’t trade.

1) allow vaccinated people only if they want
2) allow unvaccinated people (then vaccinated people can decide if they wish to use that place or not).

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Guochuan Lai
« on: July 25, 2021, 05:32:32 PM »
Not sure where you're getting the £32 million from?

WBAFC haven't made a profit for some time now, & certainly nowhere near an accumulated profit of £32 million

If you look at the notes on the accounts of WBAFC, WBA Group & WBA Holdings, the highest level company is notified as WBA Holdings.
In the accounts for WBAFC & WBA Holdings, under creditors there is clearly a debt to Group Undertakings of around £23 million, & under debtors an amount of around £4.7 million owed to WBAFC by Group Undertakings.

It was YE July 2017 we announced pre tax profits of £38m.

One thing I’ve noticed from 2016 (pre lai) is we paid a dividend to the holding company of £28m.  The E&S had a story in 2019 that supposedly explained it:

Obviously Lai then bought us and I wonder if it is in fact that money that has some point gone back in to the club accounts appears as money due to the owner?

I’m ok at reading / interpreting single year accounts, but where they move between companies and over multiple years i lose a grip on things because I don’t know enough about it all. Could anyone shed any light on this?

That might it’s just club money knocking around rather than money that should be due to Lai as such? (And that if he was to take it the S4A members would also be due?)

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Guochuan Lai
« on: July 25, 2021, 12:10:11 PM »
Hold on even with being in prem club lost money? That can't be right.

Prem accounts won’t be out for a while. Reporting period doesn’t end for a week then they’ll have months to compile and submit the accounts to companies house.

General Football & Sports / Re: Tokyo Olympics 2021
« on: July 25, 2021, 08:44:58 AM »
Shock in the tennis, women’s number 1 Ash Barty beaten in the first round.

Still never quite sure why Tennis is in the olympics. Football, Tennis and Golf don’t belong. 

General Football & Sports / Re: Transfer Window Watch (Non Albion)
« on: July 24, 2021, 06:02:44 PM »
Demari Gray for £1.7 million is great business.

They could sell him tomorrow for triple that with ease.

Agreed! I imagine Grays made a lot of money too but from a career perspective I think it’s a poor move.  I suspect it’s somewhere else he won’t play.

Luke Hatfield on Twitter says we were comfortable first half although his comments suggested Watford had the better chances.  Watford on top second half.

Robinson, Zohore and Tulloch on for Grant Phillips and Grady. . 

Yes, I think he's started both games there

Thanks, so has it been Grant left and Diangana right?

Has Philips been playing as the central striker? I read a story that suggested he had been?

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: 2021/22 Kit
« on: July 24, 2021, 11:54:56 AM »
I’ve just had a look at the Barnsley away, I like it, it’s better than ours although I don’t think it’s anything like it, it’s ‘pine green’ for a start.

That's my point. Unless he's being paid to make the comment, I can't see what he'd gain from saying it, if it was not genuine.

I don’t understand some of the lingering negativity to Foster. He did say he wasn’t going to leave, and I can understand why that annoyed people at the time, but he’s only human and sometimes people say things they shouldn’t.

He’s said enough since  and comes across genuinely enough for me to believe him when he says things were going on behind the scenes. In fact I get the impression when he says he doesn’t want to get in to it too much that he doesn’t want to drag the club through any mud.

He seems to have more of a lasting affinity to West Brom than most ex players do and seems like that brief clip is perhaps talking about following West Brom away in future.

I hope if possible he gets a great reception today.

General Football & Sports / Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« on: July 24, 2021, 10:18:21 AM »
BBC are reporting that Man City have reached an agreement with Grealish and will offer the vile £90m for him.

Not a bad profit for an academy player if it comes off.

Always said he would look good in a City shirt  ;D

I would say that I hope Villa **** the money up the wall like they have so much more but they’ll probably blow £90m on players then find the next Messi from our academy.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Matheus Pereira
« on: July 24, 2021, 10:07:21 AM »
I thought it was a shame if Pereira was refusing / declining to play, but it seems the more that is coming out the more VI and the club have perhaps taken it out of his hands. He may not be training at 100% but he’s not a robot.

It will however be a massive shame for us and huge benefit to someone else if he goes for £25m. I suggested that price around jan Jan after an average 6 months but after the second half of the season I did really think it would be closer to £35-£40m.

We need to make sure if any fee is so low that it is with incentives because he could easily move again for £50m next year.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Matheus Pereira
« on: July 23, 2021, 09:16:45 AM »
I think most fans will be shocked as to how bad last season was financially for the club even in the Premier League so I would expect a great deal of what is raised to repair the damage to the club's finances and no more than half be spent this window.

If we were to sell Pereira and Johnstone for a combined fee of say £40m then I would expect between £15m and £20m to be spent this window and if I am honest I think the £15m is much more likely than £20m.

We only spent around 50% of our incoming after relegation last time, same again the promotion season so I wouldn’t be surprised if it was less than £15m (of £40m).

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Guochuan Lai
« on: July 22, 2021, 11:34:26 AM »
The details on the 'share issue' are under the Peace thread from memory. Long story short, he launched a consolidation scheme where you had to have 10 shares for one new share. So if you had one share, you had to find 9 others that were for sale [ if you could afford them], so most were literally forced to sell to Peace with very little profit involved.
S4A have a vested interest in the club; I don't believe for one second that anyone would buy a share in a football club and expect a profit. Whilst some choose to discount their measly 12% holding, I for one am happy that they are 'asking the question'.

It was said earlier in the thread that the interest generated from the loan is far better than anything on offer today, so it is good business. This can only be true if the loan and interest is eventually paid back. However, if there is intention that the loan is not going to be paid back then all the interest counts for absolutely nothing.

I’m aware of what happened with the 10/1 consolidation. However I wonder if some of those S4A members spoke up then for fans losing out at that point, or were some happy to have a chance to increase there own numbers. It’s not impossible someone with foresight saw money increasing in the game thought they would make money in a sale too.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Guochuan Lai
« on: July 21, 2021, 02:12:58 PM »
I don’t know what they want to achieve either. I’ve looked in to the numbers of S4A before. Don’t quote me but  I think there is something like 417 members, most of whom have a single share. About 90% of the Shares in the group are held by less than 20 of the members.

So as far as I’m concerned it’s driven by a very small minority who were sat on paper millions when peace solid his shares but are angry they were never weighed in.  However there’s no need for anyone to ever make them liquid, nobody needs their 12% from them. 

Id be pretty inebriated and bitter too. Some members are are sat on millions but also sat on sweet fa. Even a single share would be nice retirement pot if anyone found a buyer for it.

It’s like they hope to annoy Lai in to buying the remainder but I can’t see it happening.. I’ve not seen S4A  try to involved in general issues  for the ‘good of the club’, if they did maybe I’d have more sympathy for them. As it happens it seems it’s just about an investment for them so I don’t.

Coronavirus Thread / Re: Vaccine passports
« on: July 21, 2021, 10:44:17 AM »
I think this is what needs to be understood, people have the right to refuse vaccines, mask wearing etc, businesses have the right to refuse use of their premises.

It’s not discrimination it’s everyone exercising their rights.

I’m double jabbed and agree with this in principle. However I’ve seen nothing to suggest a business will be given a choice so this doesn’t address anything when discussing vaccine passports.

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