Poll

Are you in favour of vaccine passports?

Yes
No
Yes in certain circumstances
Not fussed either way

Author Topic: Vaccine passports  (Read 8995 times)

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OldburyWBA

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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #225 on: July 21, 2021, 02:02:36 PM »
Isn't every discussion ever had about two (or more) different views?
Therefore whichever side of the argument your on there's always going to be an us and them.
Can't see what the over excitement is to be fair.

Yes it is but if people can't discuss it as adults then it goes, simple as that.

Nowt to do with "overexcitement". Its to do with acting like grown ups not squabbling little kids in the playground.

We do have lives away from this forum so are not prepared to spend all our time on this topic when its a football forum.

Just to add the other one was locked for the exact reason I have given, this one was supposed to be about vaccine passports but has drifted back to where we started which resulted in that one getting locked.

Warnings have been given enough starting with the politics forum which ended up going so if people don't take notice its no good moaning when we lock stuff.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 02:06:34 PM by OldburyWBA »
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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #226 on: July 21, 2021, 02:12:02 PM »
Not sure how it’s deviating from vaccine passports- only recently Boris announced he was dropping the positive test requirement for nightclubs which only allows proof of vaccination now to determine immunity, when scientifically this just isn’t the case.

I understand locking the thread when it gets out of hand with derogatory terms and childish behaviour but when it’s genuine debate and relative, I fail to see the issue. I understand you may be trying to preempt something but in reality if it’s repeat offenders who can’t have a mature conversation then do something about them?

It’s quite clear I don’t have the same opinion or viewpoint as a lot of people here but the majority of conversation has been constructive and productive. It’s a divisive topic so you’re bound to get divisive responses.

OldburyWBA

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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #227 on: July 21, 2021, 02:23:36 PM »
Not sure how it’s deviating from vaccine passports- only recently Boris announced he was dropping the positive test requirement for nightclubs which only allows proof of vaccination now to determine immunity, when scientifically this just isn’t the case.

I understand locking the thread when it gets out of hand with derogatory terms and childish behaviour but when it’s genuine debate and relative, I fail to see the issue. I understand you may be trying to preempt something but in reality if it’s repeat offenders who can’t have a mature conversation then do something about them?

It’s quite clear I don’t have the same opinion or viewpoint as a lot of people here but the majority of conversation has been constructive and productive. It’s a divisive topic so you’re bound to get divisive responses.

Maybe if you saw the posts we remove you would see it differently.

We get so much abuse for what we do on here to keep the forum going but people only see what we leave on and not the 100's of posts we have to remove each week.

If you want to take it over give me a shout and its yours.
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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #228 on: July 21, 2021, 02:25:50 PM »
Have to say this has been pretty convivial compared to the political stuff of Brexit times (IMO)

No doubt due to superb moderation !! :D :D

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skyclad99

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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #229 on: July 21, 2021, 02:29:34 PM »
Not sure how it’s deviating from vaccine passports- only recently Boris announced he was dropping the positive test requirement for nightclubs which only allows proof of vaccination now to determine immunity, when scientifically this just isn’t the case.

I understand locking the thread when it gets out of hand with derogatory terms and childish behaviour but when it’s genuine debate and relative, I fail to see the issue. I understand you may be trying to preempt something but in reality if it’s repeat offenders who can’t have a mature conversation then do something about them?

It’s quite clear I don’t have the same opinion or viewpoint as a lot of people here but the majority of conversation has been constructive and productive. It’s a divisive topic so you’re bound to get divisive responses.

I understand where you are coming from with the antibodies test, but I assume that the antibodies wear off. I contracted Covid in March 2020, and it was estimated that I had sufficient antibodies in my blood for about 6 months. This was from the NHS when I volunteered my blood for testing. The fly in the ointment there was that I had just come back from the Far East so I was ruled out [malaria area], but they clearly said my immunity was for 'about 6 months'. Obviously I got jabbed as soon as I could [ I was one of Matts special cases so got in early] and I have had my second as well. My NHS record clearly identifies when I have had the jab, what type of jab, and the batch number.
So staying on topic, if I am required to evidence this, I can. I am struggling to see why the Government would fund antibodies tests for vaccine passport alternative reasons. I am with you on this one, we are clearly heading towards herd immunity, and as the rising rates are demonstrating, part of the plan seems to factor in mass infection.
So to the point, whilst natural immunity exists, I cannot see how this can be evidenced to the level of the jab. Going into somewhere and saying 'I had covid 3 months ago so I am immune' is not going to carry much weight in many places.

As a side issue, a colleague of mine has been triple jabbed, but has just tested positive [Lives in France and the UK, two jabs here and one in France - caught it at the Eurostar station apparently].   
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section5

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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #230 on: July 21, 2021, 02:30:42 PM »
Maybe if you saw the posts we remove you would see it differently.

We get so much abuse for what we do on here to keep the forum going but people only see what we leave on and not the 100's of posts we have to remove each week.

If you want to take it over give me a shout and its yours.

I’ve seen some mate and it’s vile, I don’t envy what you’re doing but it does seem to be a minority, most people can disagree and be civil

section5

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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #231 on: July 21, 2021, 02:38:02 PM »
I understand where you are coming from with the antibodies test, but I assume that the antibodies wear off. I contracted Covid in March 2020, and it was estimated that I had sufficient antibodies in my blood for about 6 months. This was from the NHS when I volunteered my blood for testing. The fly in the ointment there was that I had just come back from the Far East so I was ruled out [malaria area], but they clearly said my immunity was for 'about 6 months'. Obviously I got jabbed as soon as I could [ I was one of Matts special cases so got in early] and I have had my second as well. My NHS record clearly identifies when I have had the jab, what type of jab, and the batch number.
So staying on topic, if I am required to evidence this, I can. I am struggling to see why the Government would fund antibodies tests for vaccine passport alternative reasons. I am with you on this one, we are clearly heading towards herd immunity, and as the rising rates are demonstrating, part of the plan seems to factor in mass infection.
So to the point, whilst natural immunity exists, I cannot see how this can be evidenced to the level of the jab. Going into somewhere and saying 'I had covid 3 months ago so I am immune' is not going to carry much weight in many places.

As a side issue, a colleague of mine has been triple jabbed, but has just tested positive [Lives in France and the UK, two jabs here and one in France - caught it at the Eurostar station apparently].

Yeah absolutely, to be fair I did point to this limitations in my post regarding antibodies fading after (up to) 8 months as immunity is more complex than simply antibodies providing protection, some people will be immune and won’t display antibodies at all or will create a slight variant which won’t be picked up by the two usual markers, some are immune without being exposed, T&C memory cells etc.

I wouldn’t use them as an alternative, I was more indicating historical testing etc. Personally I don’t see the need for either considering the data available. Either way people are going to test positive whether vaccinated or not.

I’d be more inclined to do symptomatic testing at this point now if anything considering the vaccine rollout and length of pandemic
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 02:39:33 PM by section5 »

skyclad99

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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #232 on: July 21, 2021, 02:43:53 PM »
Yeah absolutely, to be fair I did point to this limitations in my post regarding antibodies fading after (up to) 8 months as immunity is more complex than simply antibodies providing protection, some people will be immune and won’t display antibodies at all or will create a slight variant which won’t be picked up by the two usual markers, some are immune without being exposed, T&C memory cells etc.

I wouldn’t use them as an alternative, I was more indicating historical testing etc. Personally I don’t see the need for either considering the data available. Either way people are going to test positive whether vaccinated or not.

I’d be more inclined to do symptomatic testing at this point now if anything considering the vaccine rollout and length of pandemic

You see, I do understand it  ;)
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skyclad99

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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #233 on: July 21, 2021, 02:48:01 PM »
I’ve seen some mate and it’s vile, I don’t envy what you’re doing but it does seem to be a minority, most people can disagree and be civil

The moderators do an excellent job. If you want to see a lawless site, look no further than Oatcake...... :o
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OldburyWBA

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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #234 on: July 21, 2021, 02:49:52 PM »
I’ve seen some mate and it’s vile, I don’t envy what you’re doing but it does seem to be a minority, most people can disagree and be civil

And if they stick to that the topic will remain but it only takes one person to ruin it for everyone.
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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #235 on: July 21, 2021, 03:28:42 PM »
Maybe if you saw the posts we remove you would see it differently.

We get so much abuse for what we do on here to keep the forum going but people only see what we leave on and not the 100's of posts we have to remove each week.

If you want to take it over give me a shout and its yours.

Not lost on me. I’ve seen a few posts on various topics before you’ve had to delete them and frankly those who posted are incredibly fortunate to still be allowed to post on this site - I’d have a lot less patience than you guys do. Lots of good work by the admin to stop this forum sliding into the mire like others.

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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #236 on: July 22, 2021, 12:17:19 AM »
Sorry if this has already mentioned but to those saying why distinguish between natural immunity and vaccine immunity, I don't think there is a difference for the vaccine passport?

On the NHS app (for domestic purposes anyway), you can have a passport if you have had a positive PCR test within the last 180 days.

This doesn't apply for international travel, which is vaccine only.

section5

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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #237 on: July 22, 2021, 10:06:40 AM »
Sorry if this has already mentioned but to those saying why distinguish between natural immunity and vaccine immunity, I don't think there is a difference for the vaccine passport?

On the NHS app (for domestic purposes anyway), you can have a passport if you have had a positive PCR test within the last 180 days.

This doesn't apply for international travel, which is vaccine only.

For nightclubs and “mass events” Boris said negative tests will no longer be sufficient(very odd). If that’s the precedent to be set by the government then what’s to say they won’t translate to other daily activities? It just doesn’t make any sense

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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #238 on: July 22, 2021, 10:31:06 AM »
Maybe if you saw the posts we remove you would see it differently.....If you want to take it over give me a shout and its yours.

No chance of that happening, he's far too busy maintaining his research archives and sharing his findings with us to become a Mod...... there's only so many hours in everyone's day ;D .
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skyclad99

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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #239 on: July 22, 2021, 11:00:28 AM »
No chance of that happening, he's far too busy maintaining his research archives and sharing his findings with us to become a Mod...... there's only so many hours in everyone's day ;D .

His reply to the offer will be short and to the point, at least under 10,000 words.

Only joking S5;)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 11:04:48 AM by skyclad99 »
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section5

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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #240 on: July 22, 2021, 11:34:00 AM »
 I think I may need to find a new hobby  :D :D

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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #241 on: July 22, 2021, 11:49:06 AM »
I think I may need to find a new hobby  :D :D

Don't apologise for it. Given the amount of chyte-posting on here it's refreshing to see someone engage in a bit of research and critical thinking for once.

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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #242 on: July 22, 2021, 11:55:16 AM »
Yes please don't stop Section 5. You are the MVP of this topic as far as I'm concerned.

Facts over feeling all day long for me.

SmethDan

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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #243 on: July 22, 2021, 12:30:27 PM »
I think I may need to find a new hobby  :D :D

Just a harmless leg pull. Your current hobby's just fine. Enjoy  ;D .
It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
Oh, and always remember to defecate on those Vile chaps in claret and spew.

section5

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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #244 on: July 22, 2021, 01:18:58 PM »
Appreciate it, it’s refreshing to have these conversations centred around facts while respecting other opinions, ideally we won’t have to discuss this much longer and as a country move on with more pressing issues.

Just a harmless leg pull. Your current hobby's just fine. Enjoy  ;D .

 I know you and skyclad can’t wait for my next instalments ;D

section5

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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #245 on: July 22, 2021, 04:20:21 PM »
Sorry if this is off topic a bit but it’s quite positive news for those who might be wary of
the delta variant

“Effectiveness of Covid-19 Vaccines against the B.1.617.2 (Delta) Variant”

In a nutshell:

Protection against symptomatic infection:
Pfizer - around 90% effective
AstraZeneca- around 70% effective

Protection against severe disease:
Pfizer - around 95%
AstraZeneca- around 90%

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891#article_references

I wouldn’t be concerned about the AstraZeneca figures- to be expected as max efficacy comes into play 4/5 weeks after 2nd dose.

I’ve seen Dawn Butler calling out Boris for lying about the link to infections/severe death and illness, which judging by the data (and the above peer reviewed study confirming the efficacy of the vaccines for the variant of concern) has been achieved.

Out of the lies Boris has come out with, I’m not sure if this is the hill to die on

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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #246 on: July 22, 2021, 04:28:40 PM »
Sorry if this is off topic a bit but it’s quite positive news for those who might be wary of
the delta variant

“Effectiveness of Covid-19 Vaccines against the B.1.617.2 (Delta) Variant”

In a nutshell:

Protection against symptomatic infection:
Pfizer - around 90% effective
AstraZeneca- around 70% effective

Protection against severe disease:
Pfizer - around 95%
AstraZeneca- around 90%

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2108891#article_references

I wouldn’t be concerned about the AstraZeneca figures- to be expected as max efficacy comes into play 4/5 weeks after 2nd dose.

I’ve seen Dawn Butler calling out Boris for lying about the link to infections/severe death and illness, which judging by the data (and the above peer reviewed study confirming the efficacy of the vaccines for the variant of concern) has been achieved.

Out of the lies Boris has come out with, I’m not sure if this is the hill to die on
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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #247 on: July 22, 2021, 05:25:21 PM »
The Germans more efficient than us, who'd have thought it  :D
Not at football though.😄😄

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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #248 on: July 22, 2021, 09:40:33 PM »
Don't forget, that some people are afraid of needles.

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Re: Vaccine passports
« Reply #249 on: July 22, 2021, 10:02:14 PM »
Don't forget, that some people are afraid of needles.

I used to tell my mom i was scared of needles. Her response would be ‘you’ll be having loads of needles if you don’t have this one and end up getting ill’.