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Offline baggiemart

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1225 on: July 05, 2019, 01:27:33 PM »
They should close down this academy.  All we are doing is developing kids for other teams to come and sign them up.

The best kids move on to bigger and better teams, not always the right move ( Izzy Brown ). Others move on to teams where they are getting game time like the ones who went to Leeds.

If we see any type of potential we don't do anything to develop it. Last season Edwards should have been given more game time.  Its probably only a matter of time until someone comes in for him because we didn't play him enough.  Harper is another one who will be gone.

I can't remember the last time we gained anything from having this academy

Offline FallOutBoy

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1226 on: July 05, 2019, 01:33:48 PM »
Every time we lose a kid out of the academy, the call is to close it down. We shouldn't do that.

What we need to do is convince the kids that there is a path to the first team at our place. If we did that, they might work harder, and be less likely to leave.

That said, the system is broken, so we're losing players to Liverpool, Chelsea, etc., for peanuts.

We don't need to scrap our academy; we need to campaign for an overhaul of the system.

Offline paulosull

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1227 on: July 05, 2019, 01:34:53 PM »
They should close down this academy.  All we are doing is developaaing kids for other teams to come and sign them up.

The best kids move on to bigger and better teams, not always the right move ( Izzy Brown ). Others move on to teams where they are getting game time like the ones who went to Leeds.

If we see any type of potential we don't do anything to develop it. Last season Edwards should have been given more game time.  Its probably only a matter of time until someone comes in for him because we didn't play him enough.  Harper is another one who will be gone.

I can't remember the last time we gained anything from having this academy
any chance it can be taken up next time fans group talk to Jenkins and Co. The two million running costs could come in handy for transfers

Offline Dexy

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1228 on: July 05, 2019, 01:35:46 PM »
There should be a rule that means any player developed for so long at a club is subject to a % of future transfers up to a certain age. It's the only fair way I can think of doing it. Clubs get paid based on how the player develops. Something along those lines
Great idea that is , yes its PSG or whoever but what a waste of time for little return  for us.
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Offline Albionic

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1229 on: July 05, 2019, 01:36:06 PM »
They should close down this academy.  All we are doing is developing kids for other teams to come and sign them up.

The best kids move on to bigger and better teams, not always the right move ( Izzy Brown ). Others move on to teams where they are getting game time like the ones who went to Leeds.

If we see any type of potential we don't do anything to develop it. Last season Edwards should have been given more game time.  Its probably only a matter of time until someone comes in for him because we didn't play him enough.  Harper is another one who will be gone.


I can't remember the last time we gained anything from having this academy

I have no idea what funding / staffing / maintaining the Academy costs the club, but its not looking as if its contributing to the future of the club at present, may look very different at the end of next season though
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Offline paulosull

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1230 on: July 05, 2019, 01:37:22 PM »
Every time we lose a kid out of the academy, the call is to close it down. We shouldn't do that.

What we need to do is convince the kids that there is a path to the first team at our place. If we did that, they might work harder, and be less likely to leave.

That said, the system is broken, so we're losing players to Liverpool, Chelsea, etc., for peanuts.

We don't need to scrap our academy; we need to campaign for an overhaul of the system.
that's why we should close it down bec time after time any talent we have jumps ship at the first offer from who ever.

Offline paulosull

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1231 on: July 05, 2019, 01:41:15 PM »
I have no idea what funding / staffing / maintaining the Academy costs the club, but its not looking as if its contributing to the future of the club at present, may look very different at the end of next season though
2 million a year I believe, might be better spent on transfers

Offline divinewind

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1232 on: July 05, 2019, 01:43:32 PM »
It's funny it's always us though isn't it? You never hear of Wolves or Villa kids going elsewhere.
When Peace was here both Odem and Bera both publicly criticised him, the fault has always been with the incentive those who run us give to the young players.
Oh by the way, the academy coach who developed Barry has buggered off to the Villa.

Offline darbolina

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1233 on: July 05, 2019, 01:44:52 PM »
If the academy still costs 2m per year to run and in the past few years we sold Berahino for 12m and a few others we recouped say 500k in total we're still doing ok overall financiall. It's a hug pain in the butt to lose these prospects for pittances but if one or two stick and they play regularly or we sell then it works........in theory.

You've got to blame the system really - I guess Barry's mom and dad have been got to by agents promising big things and ultimately they went after cash and the promise of huge stardom. Whether all the stars align in his favour remains to be seen  so he could just end up another talented kid who didn't quite make it. All the furore about him suggests he has more going for him though? Good luck to him, it's football that's broken at the moment not the kid's fault..........

Offline Mr Cynical

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1234 on: July 05, 2019, 01:48:01 PM »
Was it the academy or the training ground in general that we cancelled the planned investment for last summer?

Offline Mr Cynical

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1235 on: July 05, 2019, 01:49:17 PM »
If the academy still costs 2m per year to run and in the past few years we sold Berahino for 12m and a few others we recouped say 500k in total we're still doing ok overall financiall. It's a hug pain in the butt to lose these prospects for pittances but if one or two stick and they play regularly or we sell then it works........in theory.

You've got to blame the system really - I guess Barry's mom and dad have been got to by agents promising big things and ultimately they went after cash and the promise of huge stardom. Whether all the stars align in his favour remains to be seen  so he could just end up another talented kid who didn't quite make it. All the furore about him suggests he has more going for him though? Good luck to him, it's football that's broken at the moment not the kid's fault..........

I think we got £2.5m for Tyler Roberts and wasted it on Sturridge.

Offline Albion79

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1236 on: July 05, 2019, 01:51:48 PM »
The whole system needs an overhaul in the way of compensation.

However, we arent losing kids to rivals, ie they arent going to a Villa, or a Sheffield Wednesday, etc the ones we are losing are going to elite world renowned clubs - Chelsea (Brown), Liverpool (Dhanda and Sinclair), PSG or Barca (Barry).

Not all the clubs are known for great youth development but they are world class clubs and whatever level, youth or first team, if a Liverpool or PSG come calling it turns your head. With the exception of Brown none of these players were with the first team, the clubs are signing potential, signing them at 14, 15 or 16 and there arent many lads of that age playing first team football so i dont think we can be too criticial of the Albion here.

They offered Barry a three year contract, apparently on very good terms but as others have said financially going to PSG / Barca he will be setup very well for his future and the coaches and standards they have you can only learn from if you apply yourself, if he doesnt make it there he can step down to an Albion, etc.

Our best potential players are likely to get picked off, thats just football in general at all levels, so we have the next level down, the likes of Field, Harper, Edwards. What the club have to do for those players, and something they do have to improve, is show them if they are good enough there is a pathway for them to the first team, but if not ready they go out on loan, not playing under 23's football for seasons at a time.

Offline TiptonThrostle

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1237 on: July 05, 2019, 01:52:10 PM »
Cannot really blame him.

if its true PSG have offered him a 5 year deal why wouldnt you take it? like Izzy Brown, Chelsea offered him more money and brought his family a house allegedly.

he could sign for albion and then not get chances or not fulfil potential then slowly drift down the leagues and not make a living from football.

the reality is that money talks and if the psg offer is true then he signs that and has other incentives that affect his family then he is made for life.


Offline cads_ap_albion

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1238 on: July 05, 2019, 01:52:29 PM »
It's funny it's always us though isn't it? You never hear of Wolves or Villa kids going elsewhere.
When Peace was here both Odem and Bera both publicly criticised him, the fault has always been with the incentive those who run us give to the young players.
Oh by the way, the academy coach who developed Barry has buggered off to the Villa.

1. Villa and Wolves do lose players. Even Man City lost players to Dortmund
2. Barry was always leaving for a top European club. Not an English top 6 but one of the biggest world clubs. Just what could we offer to compete?

Money talks and if money clubs City lose out, well....
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Offline Hull Baggie

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1239 on: July 05, 2019, 01:53:15 PM »
It's funny it's always us though isn't it? You never hear of Wolves or Villa kids going elsewhere.
When Peace was here both Odem and Bera both publicly criticised him, the fault has always been with the incentive those who run us give to the young players.
Oh by the way, the academy coach who developed Barry has buggered off to the Villa.

weren't they criticising him for transfer dealings though, nothing to do with the academy?

 Also under Peace didn't Berahino get a pay rise from something like £850 pw to £14,000 pw?
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Offline divinewind

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1240 on: July 05, 2019, 01:54:34 PM »
Money has ruined the game, it won't ruin us though because we don't have any. We can't even pay off our own debts.
This club is in terminal decline.

Offline smethwick2

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1241 on: July 05, 2019, 01:56:53 PM »
Real shame to lose Barry, I was hoping he could at least 'do a rooney' and break into a first team at 16/17, the get bought a couple of years later by one of the elite

Offline divinewind

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1242 on: July 05, 2019, 01:59:04 PM »
weren't they criticising him for transfer dealings though, nothing to do with the academy?

 Also under Peace didn't Berahino get a pay rise from something like £850 pw to £14,000 pw?

Yes, but Peace said he wouldn't pay him anymore because he didn't trust him with it. What a pathetic purile excuse from the tight fisted bald one.
At the time Bera was one of Englands brightest prospects. Spurs were willing to buy him to play alongside Kane, but as we know, old Jeremiah doesn't do instalments, unles he's the one who is buying.
You can chart Bera's rapid decline from that moment.
£14,000 pw for Englands most up and coming striker FFS.

Offline paulosull

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1243 on: July 05, 2019, 01:59:46 PM »
I think we got £2.5m for Tyler Roberts and wasted it on Sturridge.
4 million for Roberts which went on sicknotes wages, couldn't even compete with Leeds who were in a league below us and didn't have prem money behind them. This club has and will be mickey mouse as Jose stated.

Offline divinewind

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1244 on: July 05, 2019, 02:02:58 PM »
4 million for Roberts which went on sicknotes wages, couldn't even compete with Leeds who were in a league below us and didn't have prem money behind them. This club has and will be mickey mouse as Jose stated.

And people will still keep making excuses for the owners. They are businessmen,why should they spend their money on a football club they will say.
Well why buy a feckin football club in the first place?

Offline Hull Baggie

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1245 on: July 05, 2019, 02:18:38 PM »
Yes, but Peace said he wouldn't pay him anymore because he didn't trust him with it. What a pathetic purile excuse from the tight fisted bald one.
At the time Bera was one of Englands brightest prospects. Spurs were willing to buy him to play alongside Kane, but as we know, old Jeremiah doesn't do instalments, unles he's the one who is buying.
You can chart Bera's rapid decline from that moment.
£14,000 pw for Englands most up and coming striker FFS.

If memory serves me correctly didn't Spurs want to pay £5m up front and the rest in installments on pretty much the last day of the transfer window, meaning we would have struggled to have got anyone remotely decent in for that money?

Also £14,000pw was hardly peanuts.
Berahino's decline was all his own doing, he was the one who decided that he would sulk like a baby rather than knuckling down and making himself more appealing in future windows. Englands most up and coming striker or a one season flash in the pan...he's hardly gone on to set the world alight has he?


BUT my main point is that the issues with Odemwingie and Berahino had nothing to do with the U23's or the academy which is what this thread is about.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 02:21:12 PM by Hull Baggie »
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Offline baggie82

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1246 on: July 05, 2019, 02:24:18 PM »
So we offered Lourie Barry a 3 year deal and PSG offered him a 5 year deal. :o For god sake why didn't we at least offer 5 years as well with lots of clauses and incentives to ratchet up his wages for appearances and goals? It's a shocking state of affairs when we can't even put together a quality package for 16 year old "wonderkid" when we have income of £50m and barely 20 first team players on the books. This just smacks as another example of the club being mismanaged.

Offline smethwickw

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1247 on: July 05, 2019, 02:29:03 PM »
They should close down this academy.  All we are doing is developing kids for other teams to come and sign them up.

The best kids move on to bigger and better teams, not always the right move ( Izzy Brown ). Others move on to teams where they are getting game time like the ones who went to Leeds.

If we see any type of potential we don't do anything to develop it. Last season Edwards should have been given more game time.  Its probably only a matter of time until someone comes in for him because we didn't play him enough.  Harper is another one who will be gone.

I can't remember the last time we gained anything from having this academy

I still feel that he is better off now than if he'd have stayed here. He's played over 80 games since leaving despite having a lengthy spell out injured. Compare that to the game time Field has had here for example (very little) plus the fact he's earned a lot more money in the meantime. Had he stayed here he'd have most likely been sat on the sidelines watching has beens like Livermore and Brunt.

Offline smethwick2

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1248 on: July 05, 2019, 02:37:10 PM »
So we offered Lourie Barry a 3 year deal and PSG offered him a 5 year deal. :o For god sake why didn't we at least offer 5 years as well with lots of clauses and incentives to ratchet up his wages for appearances and goals? It's a shocking state of affairs when we can't even put together a quality package for 16 year old "wonderkid" when we have income of £50m and barely 20 first team players on the books. This just smacks as another example of the club being mismanaged.

For me a 5 year contract to a kid who cant even buy a lottery ticket isn't the way to go, regardless of how good he might become. I don't know what the offers elsewhere will be financially but if were to offer him say 5k per week for 5 years (a guess at what the PSG offer might look like) then not only is that a large financial commitment to a player of that age, but what stops Morgan Rogers, Jamie Soule etc. asking for similar or walk. At some point you have to draw the line at what you are prepared to pay such a young player. If reports are right, a 3 year contract including a year on a pro contract is a very good offer and one I doubt we have ever offered a youth player before

Offline Hull Baggie

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Re: Under 23's/ Academy Thread
« Reply #1249 on: July 05, 2019, 02:39:19 PM »
I still feel that he is better off now than if he'd have stayed here. He's played over 80 games since leaving despite having a lengthy spell out injured. Compare that to the game time Field has had here for example (very little) plus the fact he's earned a lot more money in the meantime. Had he stayed here he'd have most likely been sat on the sidelines watching has beens like Livermore and Brunt.

we were in the Premier league when Brown left since then he has only made 15 appearances in the Premier league out of his 73 league appearances (1 for us and Chelsea and 13 for Brighton), he's mostly played in the Championship or The Dutch top flight which is more akin to the Championship in standard.

It seems that both us and Chelsea didn't think he was quite ready for the EPL at the times we had him.
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