Author Topic: Under 23's / Academy Thread  (Read 260102 times)

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Hunnington Baggie

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1750 on: December 21, 2020, 04:26:23 PM »
Stolen from another forum:

Quote
Just spoke to one of the staff:

Shambolic first half - Button got booked for kicking the ball away after the 3rd (into a pond)

We missed 3 absolute sitters 2nd half - and really should not have lost

Sam Field looks in good physical shape - which makes a nice change for this bunch.  He's expected to play a first team part - immediately

Hunnington Baggie

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1751 on: December 22, 2020, 11:33:51 AM »
Highlights of the Stoke game have come out, there were 3 penalties which explains the high scoring result. Much like the first team we don’t handle crosses very well, but as half of that defence was senior players it’s not a major surprise.


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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1752 on: December 31, 2020, 02:44:48 AM »
Two points on this:

1. Surely it is worth giving some of these guys a go, they can't be any worse?

2. How much of an impact do you think our shocking first team form is having on these guys' morale? My main concern is people like Rico Richards wouldn't have signed had his decision been during this season rather than last

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1753 on: December 31, 2020, 01:31:44 PM »
I think my worry about giving the "youngsters" (I mean, even out first team are "youngsters" to me, but...) a go in the first team is they might get crushed. By expectations. By results. I don't know them obviously, but putting too much on young people can damage them long-term. I think it would have to be handled very carefully.

Of course, they might fly. You just can't tell.

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1754 on: January 01, 2021, 05:46:04 PM »
With our so called fabled academy why are we not getting youngsters through who can cement a first team place in woeful squad. Granted O'Shea has done so this season but where are the others?

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1755 on: January 01, 2021, 05:53:01 PM »
The academy is going to be more important from now on .Clubs won’t be able to sign players U18 years of age. It will be more difficult to sign players from Europe especially for those lower down the food chain . 1 example I’ve seen is that only about 14 players from ligue 2will qualify under new employment rules . Apparently Riyadh Mahrez wouldn’t have been able to sign for Leicester if today’s rules had been in place.
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Hunnington Baggie

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1756 on: January 01, 2021, 06:37:37 PM »
With our so called fabled academy why are we not getting youngsters through who can cement a first team place in woeful squad. Granted O'Shea has done so this season but where are the others?
out on loan, how many do you want and what position?

johnny Cash

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1757 on: January 01, 2021, 06:44:00 PM »
The academies should have been incredibly important for the last 20 years. I can’t help feel that the problem is the FA / premier league refuse to give the clubs the protection they really need to really invest in them

If a kid  has with a club for 3 years or more before 15 then they should have to sign their first contract with that club if the club wishes to invoke its right.

If it is invoked, then the money a club is prepared to put on wages should come with a compulsory minimum fee.

I.e if a club chooses to inception the compulsory first 4 year contact....

£500 a week comes with £250,000 release
£1,000 comes with £500,000
£5,000 comes with £5,000,000
£10,000 comes with £10,000,000
£20,000 comes with £20,000,000

Both club and player can negotiate without the above if they both agree, but if a club does want to evoke a player cannot sign elsewhere. It would maybe need some further clauses to protect players further but it could work.


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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1758 on: January 02, 2021, 12:30:17 AM »
With our so called fabled academy why are we not getting youngsters through who can cement a first team place in woeful squad. Granted O'Shea has done so this season but where are the others?

For an academy with our level of investment (at the lower end compared to most Cat A academies), our output isn’t too bad.

Chris Wood, Tyler Roberts and Nathan Ferguson all at other premier league clubs, Kemar Roofe playing for Rangers, Berahino and Adil Nabi playing in decent European top flight leagues.

Add to that the likes of Leko, Yan Dhanda, Izzy Brown, Ryan Allsop, Jerome Sinclair and Marcus Forss all attached to championship clubs as well as a number of players in league 1 and league 2.

We have lost our most exciting academy youngsters as a frightening rate before they make their mark on the first team - Louie Barry is being talked about as a first team option for Villa the second half of this season while Morgan Rodgers will likely have a breakthrough on loan next season. Add to them Matt Smith, Dhanda, Sinclair, Brown, Ferguson and Roberts, all taken/sold/requesting to leave after refusing to sign new contracts as teenagers in the space of 6 or 7 years.

Despite that, we have 4 academy graduates in the first team frame this season (O’Shea, Sawyers, Edwards & Field), plus a host of kids out on loan who with any luck will either continue their good form (Palmer, Griffiths, Azaz) or get back to fitness and have big second halves of the season (Morton, Tulloch).

There are question marks over our ability as a “finishing school” as I’d argue players do seem to have ground to a halt after being quite promising at 16, but in the space of a decade we have produced a solid list of academy graduates plying football both domestically and abroad.

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1759 on: January 02, 2021, 12:44:45 AM »
For an academy with our level of investment (at the lower end compared to most Cat A academies), our output isn’t too bad.

Chris Wood, Tyler Roberts and Nathan Ferguson all at other premier league clubs, Kemar Roofe playing for Rangers, Berahino and Adil Nabi playing in decent European top flight leagues.

Add to that the likes of Leko, Yan Dhanda, Izzy Brown, Ryan Allsop, Jerome Sinclair and Marcus Forss all attached to championship clubs as well as a number of players in league 1 and league 2.

We have lost our most exciting academy youngsters as a frightening rate before they make their mark on the first team - Louie Barry is being talked about as a first team option for Villa the second half of this season while Morgan Rodgers will likely have a breakthrough on loan next season. Add to them Matt Smith, Dhanda, Sinclair, Brown, Ferguson and Roberts, all taken/sold/requesting to leave after refusing to sign new contracts as teenagers in the space of 6 or 7 years.

Despite that, we have 4 academy graduates in the first team frame this season (O’Shea, Sawyers, Edwards & Field), plus a host of kids out on loan who with any luck will either continue their good form (Palmer, Griffiths, Azaz) or get back to fitness and have big second halves of the season (Morton, Tulloch).

There are question marks over our ability as a “finishing school” as I’d argue players do seem to have ground to a halt after being quite promising at 16, but in the space of a decade we have produced a solid list of academy graduates plying football both domestically and abroad.



A good assessment. Though it's five in our current squad if you include Harper.
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1760 on: January 02, 2021, 09:36:46 AM »
Excellent post as usual from Baggies.

It is a crying shame however that those responsible for those success stories are now plying their trade at Bodymoor Heath.
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1761 on: January 02, 2021, 09:50:01 AM »
A good assessment Baggies and the key for me is
There are question marks over our ability as a “finishing school”
This should be a clear part of Dowling's remit and I'm just not sure he gets it judging by how we have used Edwards and Harper in the last two seasons. In Edwards case in particular, he was contributing from the bench at the beginning of last season, Diangana got injured but he rarely got a start and we then signed Grosicki and Robinson. That's where the Director of Football needs to have an honest conversation with the manager and ask whether he will be used more and if the answer is no, explain that he will need loaning to get games and that another young player, perhaps Tulloch, would be the off the bench option.

 I know it is tough when you are chasing promotion but we can't always think short term. Edwards could have gone somewhere and been on fire the last 6months of last season and been ready this year. He could have played well and increased his value or he could have not been average which would have given us a guide as to whether we should have sold him in the summer or loaned him again if it was quite clear he needed more time at that level. Now he and us are left in limbo and it is a waste.

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1762 on: January 02, 2021, 01:58:29 PM »
For an academy with our level of investment (at the lower end compared to most Cat A academies), our output isn’t too bad.

Chris Wood, Tyler Roberts and Nathan Ferguson all at other premier league clubs, Kemar Roofe playing for Rangers, Berahino and Adil Nabi playing in decent European top flight leagues.

Add to that the likes of Leko, Yan Dhanda, Izzy Brown, Ryan Allsop, Jerome Sinclair and Marcus Forss all attached to championship clubs as well as a number of players in league 1 and league 2.

We have lost our most exciting academy youngsters as a frightening rate before they make their mark on the first team - Louie Barry is being talked about as a first team option for Villa the second half of this season while Morgan Rodgers will likely have a breakthrough on loan next season. Add to them Matt Smith, Dhanda, Sinclair, Brown, Ferguson and Roberts, all taken/sold/requesting to leave after refusing to sign new contracts as teenagers in the space of 6 or 7 years.

Despite that, we have 4 academy graduates in the first team frame this season (O’Shea, Sawyers, Edwards & Field), plus a host of kids out on loan who with any luck will either continue their good form (Palmer, Griffiths, Azaz) or get back to fitness and have big second halves of the season (Morton, Tulloch).

There are question marks over our ability as a “finishing school” as I’d argue players do seem to have ground to a halt after being quite promising at 16, but in the space of a decade we have produced a solid list of academy graduates plying football both domestically and abroad.

Perfectly put  8)

Our academy has brought through a ton of players....most of which would probably be around our first team now had they signed new contracts rather than leaving for ‘bigger’ clubs.

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1763 on: January 02, 2021, 03:18:40 PM »
Perfectly put  8)

Our academy has brought through a ton of players....most of which would probably be around our first team now had they signed new contracts rather than leaving for ‘bigger’ clubs.

So if the better ones are mostly going to seek out "bigger" clubs that sort of vitiates the purpose of the academy or least makes the returns marginal?

Was Crystal Palace a bigger club to Ferguson or just one paying more money?
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Hunnington Baggie

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1764 on: January 02, 2021, 03:28:35 PM »
So if the better ones are mostly going to seek out "bigger" clubs that sort of vitiates the purpose of the academy or least makes the returns marginal?

Was Crystal Palace a bigger club to Ferguson or just one paying more money?
at the time? both.

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1765 on: January 04, 2021, 11:03:31 PM »
Saw that morgan Roger's has gone to Lincoln. Does that mean morton will come back? I imagine soule will also
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1766 on: January 04, 2021, 11:22:39 PM »
Saw that morgan Roger's has gone to Lincoln. Does that mean morton will come back? I imagine soule will also

Rogers plays for Man City, not us, and unless Lincoln are at their limit on loans (is it five per match-day squad, but unlimited in the registered squad?) then I don't see why Morton being there would be a problem?
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1767 on: January 05, 2021, 01:39:04 AM »
Rogers plays for Man City, not us, and unless Lincoln are at their limit on loans (is it five per match-day squad, but unlimited in the registered squad?) then I don't see why Morton being there would be a problem?

Pushing Morton down pecking order? Or possibly covering him for an injury that's worse than initially believed?
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johnny Cash

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1768 on: January 05, 2021, 02:44:57 PM »
Rogers plays for Man City, not us, and unless Lincoln are at their limit on loans (is it five per match-day squad, but unlimited in the registered squad?) then I don't see why Morton being there would be a problem?


Still really annoyed with that Rogers move. By accounts i've seen he was was happy to stay. The fact we got £4m rather than just training compensation suggests he wanted the club to benefit too, as I understand Jude Bellingham did with Blues (albeit to a much greater extent - allegedly its part of the the reason he went to Dortmund rather than United).

For these reasons I've been keeping an eye out and waiting for him to break through. I hope he does well.  If he tears up league one, perhaps one who could be of interest to us if we go down next year.


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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1769 on: January 06, 2021, 01:04:36 PM »
Pushing Morton down pecking order? Or possibly covering him for an injury that's worse than initially believed?

Ah yes, I didn't realise that was what you meant. That's quite possible. I always thought Rogers played more as a 10 than an out and out striker, so hopefully they aren't competing for the same spot.
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1770 on: January 06, 2021, 01:15:40 PM »
Pushing Morton down pecking order? Or possibly covering him for an injury that's worse than initially believed?

More likely the latter. As far as I'm aware Morton hasnt been seen practically all season.

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1771 on: January 13, 2021, 05:28:06 PM »
FA Youth Cup temporarily suspended........

https://www.wba.co.uk/news/fa-youth-cup-temporarily-suspended
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1772 on: Yesterday at 12:18:33 PM »
Anyone got any news on Callum Morton?

Seems to have vanished.

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1773 on: Yesterday at 12:25:58 PM »
Injured isn't he?
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1774 on: Yesterday at 12:34:31 PM »
Anyone got any news on Callum Morton?

Seems to have vanished.

He's having rehab' on his shoulder at the Albion, Appleton thinks he's out until February.......

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/lincoln-city-boss-michael-appleton-4791455.amp
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