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Author Topic: Claudio Yacob (Left, now at Nottm Forest)  (Read 160499 times)

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Offline Adder

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #50 on: July 14, 2012, 10:54:18 PM »
Get where your coming from but that isnt really the point that Rainbow was making. Its a question of horses for courses. If the rest of the PL was filled with Barca type teams then your argument would hold but its not. Its a tough physical league and there can be no doubt that we have lacked a player or two to deal with this aspect at times. Lovely thought that we could fill our team full of tippy tappy players and simply play our way out of trouble but sadly as rainbow points out its at the moment.....dreamland
It's not quite dreamland - Swansea come into the league and play without one destroyer. If you want to play with 2 holding players then at least one of them has to have good quality on the ball ... that's why we are moving on from Scharner.

Offline MICKYMEL

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2012, 10:54:48 PM »
Out of contract highly sought after Argentine international midfielder?

Er, yes please!!
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Offline kris_boing

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #52 on: July 14, 2012, 11:00:59 PM »
This guy has been described as a better footballer than Mascherano but not quite as 'nasty' in terms of biting tackles etc,.
 
 
Sounds good to me.  I know alot of our fans didnt appreciate Greening when he was here but we havent really kept the ball well in midfield since he left.  His limits were exposed in terms of tackling etc, but this guy seems to have that to his game too.
 
 
 
 
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Offline rubyruby

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #53 on: July 14, 2012, 11:09:27 PM »
It's not quite dreamland - Swansea come into the league and play without one destroyer. If you want to play with 2 holding players then at least one of them has to have good quality on the ball ... that's why we are moving on from Scharner.

Dont disagree that you need quality on the ball at all. But you also currently need it off the ball also in a league that is far more tolerant of fast at times overly physical play. Good point about Swansea but its still to be proven that they can repeat the form and style of last year. Teams coming up are having a go with more confidence than they used to but equally there will be no surprise factor this season and will they get the protection from referees that they perhaps deserve? Im not sure about moving on from Scharner though. Simply think the club believed his legs might have gone a bit for this level. Once one or two teams have consolidated for 4/5 seasons playing the Swansea way then post back to me. Until then I remain unconvinced. Arsenal, our best footballing team are still trying to adequately replace Patrick Viera several seasons on?

Offline Dan

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #54 on: July 14, 2012, 11:17:58 PM »
Get where your coming from but that isnt really the point that Rainbow was making. Its a question of horses for courses. If the rest of the PL was filled with Barca type teams then your argument would hold but its not. Its a tough physical league and there can be no doubt that we have lacked a player or two to deal with this aspect at times. Lovely thought that we could fill our team full of tippy tappy players and simply play our way out of trouble but sadly as rainbow points out its at the moment.....dreamland

The physicality aspect is overrated I think, its a physical league sure, but that doesn't stop technical players succeeding in the main. There's plenty of "lightweight" players in the league.

There's tonnes of teams who've been relegated with physical players, to say playing football can't work based on Mowbray's season is just taking one example and taking it to the extreme. We didn't get relegated due to playing passing football, any team that had a strike force for most the season of Bednar/Moore/Simpson/Fortune was always liable to get relegated.

Offline rubyruby

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #55 on: July 14, 2012, 11:40:01 PM »
The physicality aspect is overrated I think, its a physical league sure, but that doesn't stop technical players succeeding in the main. There's plenty of "lightweight" players in the league.

There's tonnes of teams who've been relegated with physical players, to say playing football can't work based on Mowbray's season is just taking one example and taking it to the extreme. We didn't get relegated due to playing passing football, any team that had a strike force for most the season of Bednar/Moore/Simpson/Fortune was always liable to get relegated.

Well again at the risk of repeating myself that is not what Rainbow pointed towards. He stated that we already had skilled players in Dorrans and Morrison amongst others and that we needed better balance with some toughness to go with it rather than filling our squad with lighter weight ball players. So he definately didnt say the physicality is underrated more that to be consistently successful in this league season to season you do need some of that presence. I agree with you about the Mowbray side though we had no cutting edge at all really.

Anyhow back to Claudio Jacob eh  ;)

Offline GrGr

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #56 on: July 14, 2012, 11:59:19 PM »
How can people say we need more toughness when we barely were able to move the ball under Roy???? Clarke and Ashworth are clearly looking to improve our game with the ball, and more power to them I say.

Offline lewisant

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #57 on: July 15, 2012, 12:04:55 AM »
How can people say we need more toughness when we barely were able to move the ball under Roy???? Clarke and Ashworth are clearly looking to improve our game with the ball, and more power to them I say.

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Offline Kicking Pigeons

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #58 on: July 15, 2012, 12:29:15 AM »
Well again at the risk of repeating myself that is not what Rainbow pointed towards. He stated that we already had skilled players in Dorrans and Morrison amongst others and that we needed better balance with some toughness to go with it rather than filling our squad with lighter weight ball players. So he definately didnt say the physicality is underrated more that to be consistently successful in this league season to season you do need some of that presence. I agree with you about the Mowbray side though we had no cutting edge at all really.

Anyhow back to Claudio Jacob eh  ;)
Yacob is a different type of player to both Morrison and Dorrans so I'm not sure how that's a relevant point. Morrison and Dorrans are your traditional attacking/box-to-box midfielders, Yacob is a defensive midfielder and a deep-lying playmaker. In fact he's probably unlike any player we have, do we have any other midfielder who can sit in front of the defence both breaking up attacks and instigating them? I don't think so (maybe Jara, but he looks out of the reckoning and he hasn't played that position much).

Big, physical players are something that every squad should have, but having an equal amount of physical players and 'non-physical' players I don't think necessarily makes a squad balanced. A balanced squad is a squad that has a variety of different types of player who can do different jobs. If we sign Yacob then we'll be adding a different type of player to the ones we already have to our squad both improving it both player quality wise and in terms of balance. Besides, we probably have more 'non-physical' players than physical ones, Dorrans; Morrison; Thomas; El Ghanassy; Odemwingie; Cox and Brunt are the only senior players I can think of whose natural game isn't based around physicality.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 12:36:00 AM by Kicking Pigeons »

Offline leeiswba

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #59 on: July 15, 2012, 02:52:50 AM »
Just look at Makelele, small chap, but probably the best DM I have seen in my lifetime. Dont need any physical presence to play there.

Offline texisonfire

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #60 on: July 15, 2012, 03:43:09 AM »
Been tweeted by a South American football journalist saying that instead of 'close to signing' which I had tweeted, that it should actually be 'deal done'.

He seems to be a well established in the field so I'm confident we've got our man, but he asked I don't reveal who told me as you can imagine!
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Offline rubyruby

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #61 on: July 15, 2012, 08:48:48 AM »
Yacob is a different type of player to both Morrison and Dorrans so I'm not sure how that's a relevant point. Morrison and Dorrans are your traditional attacking/box-to-box midfielders, Yacob is a defensive midfielder and a deep-lying playmaker. In fact he's probably unlike any player we have, do we have any other midfielder who can sit in front of the defence both breaking up attacks and instigating them? I don't think so (maybe Jara, but he looks out of the reckoning and he hasn't played that position much).

Big, physical players are something that every squad should have, but having an equal amount of physical players and 'non-physical' players I don't think necessarily makes a squad balanced. A balanced squad is a squad that has a variety of different types of player who can do different jobs. If we sign Yacob then we'll be adding a different type of player to the ones we already have to our squad both improving it both player quality wise and in terms of balance. Besides, we probably have more 'non-physical' players than physical ones, Dorrans; Morrison; Thomas; El Ghanassy; Odemwingie; Cox and Brunt are the only senior players I can think of whose natural game isn't based around physicality.

Think your losing the plot a bit here KP with respect. A player that breaks up and instigates?...Mulumbu has been doing that for the last three years! Cant see that there would be that much difference between Jacob and Morrison/Dorrans other than the position they are asked to adopt. they are all Midfielders who pass the ball. Jacob is of interest because of that, he is well drilled in that position and the club want someone who can come in and do that job straight away.
Fact still remains that we lack a real powerhouse player with the legs to get all over the pitch and dominate games by imposing himself. Arguably the most influential player in the PL last season? Ya Ya Toure.........................I rest my case

Offline Baggie Artist

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #62 on: July 15, 2012, 08:58:01 AM »
I think we had earmarked David Vaughan for that playmaker role last summer, but he went to Sunderland instead.

I agree we need a player like Doumbia as well though, otherwise we're lacking physicality in the centre of midfield. Signing both would be ideal.

Offline BobTaylor

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #63 on: July 15, 2012, 08:59:28 AM »
If we want to take teams like swansea on at the passing game then we need mozza, pete, dozza and brunt to really up there game like we know there capable of, the other option would be selling mulumbu because his passing is atrocious and spending 20 million on 4 good footballing footballers, which is unlikely to say the least. Hodgson made us good defensively as a group but i wouldnt fancy our back four keeping clean sheets if we got strectched like the mowbray and matteo campaigns. Clarke has already said he wont be undoing that defensive work so im sleeping easy at the moment.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 09:03:35 AM by BobTaylor »

Offline Nocky

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #64 on: July 15, 2012, 09:56:58 AM »
Think your losing the plot a bit here KP with respect. A player that breaks up and instigates?...Mulumbu has been doing that for the last three years! Cant see that there would be that much difference between Jacob and Morrison/Dorrans other than the position they are asked to adopt. they are all Midfielders who pass the ball. Jacob is of interest because of that, he is well drilled in that position and the club want someone who can come in and do that job straight away.
Fact still remains that we lack a real powerhouse player with the legs to get all over the pitch and dominate games by imposing himself. Arguably the most influential player in the PL last season? Ya Ya Toure.........................I rest my case

Mulumbu is an excellent defensive midfielder but he is hardly the instigator of attacking football you are making him out to be. If we are to play with two defensive midfielders next season than its about having ones which compliment each other well. Yacob appears to have a calmness and composure about his play that perhaps Mulumbu is lacking at times in his game. With Mulumbus energy and drive and Yacobs ability to read the game and distribute the ball from deep, you have a potentially effective midfield partnership.

I'm not sure how valid your point about Ya Ya Toure is tbh Ruby. Sure, he's a powerhouse and gets about the pitch but he also has immense quality on the ball. If we're to bring in somebody with the physical attributes you are looking for its likely we would have to compromise on said players passing ability. Unfortunately that's the market we are in. If Clarke wants to produce a passing team than players like Yacob are surely preferable.

IMO the ability to read the game well and position yourself effectively will always trump pure physicality when it comes to defensive midfielders. Personally I can't see how you can compare the likes of Morrison and Dorrans to Yacob when the aforementioned are instinctively attacking players. Sure they may all be able to pass but the positions they take up on the pitch, their decision making and their general approach to the games will be very different
« Last Edit: July 15, 2012, 10:01:32 AM by Nocky »
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Offline Philly88

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #65 on: July 15, 2012, 11:01:37 AM »
This had ade me very very very excited. I try not to when thinking about potential albion signings but just.... wow!!! imaging long or El Ghanassy on the end of one of those. But having the physical game of dumbia would be great too!

But if this signing doesnt come through we could always sign Pirlo!  8) :P
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Offline dragon

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #66 on: July 15, 2012, 12:46:15 PM »
Mulumbu is an excellent defensive midfielder but he is hardly the instigator of attacking football you are making him out to be. If we are to play with two defensive midfielders next season than its about having ones which compliment each other well. Yacob appears to have a calmness and composure about his play that perhaps Mulumbu is lacking at times in his game. With Mulumbus energy and drive and Yacobs ability to read the game and distribute the ball from deep, you have a potentially effective midfield partnership.

I'm not sure how valid your point about Ya Ya Toure is tbh Ruby. Sure, he's a powerhouse and gets about the pitch but he also has immense quality on the ball. If we're to bring in somebody with the physical attributes you are looking for its likely we would have to compromise on said players passing ability. Unfortunately that's the market we are in. If Clarke wants to produce a passing team than players like Yacob are surely preferable.

IMO the ability to read the game well and position yourself effectively will always trump pure physicality when it comes to defensive midfielders. Personally I can't see how you can compare the likes of Morrison and Dorrans to Yacob when the aforementioned are instinctively attacking players. Sure they may all be able to pass but the positions they take up on the pitch, their decision making and their general approach to the games will be very different

I am now really worried for Graham Dorrans' future. Central Midfield is not a priority for us but we are getting two of them. Left back? Right back? Left Winger? Striker? All these postions are far more necessary than a cm.

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #67 on: July 15, 2012, 01:09:57 PM »
He looks an outstanding player from the little I've seen. This would be a big coup for us.
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Offline HampshireBaggie

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #68 on: July 15, 2012, 01:58:34 PM »
I am now really worried for Graham Dorrans' future. Central Midfield is not a priority for us but we are getting two of them. Left back? Right back? Left Winger? Striker? All these postions are far more necessary than a cm.

After Scharner and Andrews have left i would say replacing them are more of a priority. A striker? Not at the moment. Fortune did well last season. Will be a big season for Long. And Pete got us 10 goals.

You have to look at it as a deal by deal basis. Yes a LB maybe a priority but that doesn't mean you have to sign one before strengthening other positions. If these 2 CM's are available then we need to act quickly instead of waiting until we have sorted LB.

Offline MICKYMEL

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #69 on: July 15, 2012, 02:07:01 PM »
Cant have enough quality midfielders, in most games they control games. After deciding to improve on Scharner and Andrews it looks like we are not mucking about this time with the right replacements.
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Offline Baggies

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #70 on: July 15, 2012, 02:48:34 PM »
Been tweeted by a South American football journalist saying that instead of 'close to signing' which I had tweeted, that it should actually be 'deal done'.

He seems to be a well established in the field so I'm confident we've got our man, but he asked I don't reveal who told me as you can imagine!

From what Madeley and Lepkowski, as well as Sam Kelly and Rupert Fryer have said on twitter, it seems personal terms are not the problem. I think we have agreed everything with the player so in that sense it is deal done.

The red tape might relate to wokr permits, and third part ownenrship and that is what is holding up the deal and adds the small element of doubt still around.

Reading what Sam Kelly, Rupert Fryer and Ed Malyon (Argentinian football writers) have said about him, as well as the other reports, he seems to be a very good player. Arsenal have had an interest in him and he was developing very well until this season where he got in trouble for swapping shorts after a game and they stopped playing him. This lack of game time seems to be the reason the window has opened for us to sign him. From the reports, if he can continue developing we will be getting a very high quality player. That's no guarantee of success of course as Valero  has more talent than any player on our books but he failed here despite now being a Spanish international sought after by champs league clubs this summer. Id still rather get an argentinian international in.

I cant see us signing both him and doumbia. We have Mulumbu and then we have a lot of attacking central midfielders. If Reid and Jara are here next season, they can fill in as defensive midfielders as well and then you have Thorne and Mantom on our books. It would be over kill to have both.

I understand why people may wan a big strong athletic midfielder as it helps in this league to have those sort of players but I think Yacob is the player with the most quality.
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Offline rubyruby

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #71 on: July 15, 2012, 02:53:14 PM »
Mulumbu is an excellent defensive midfielder but he is hardly the instigator of attacking football you are making him out to be. If we are to play with two defensive midfielders next season than its about having ones which compliment each other well. Yacob appears to have a calmness and composure about his play that perhaps Mulumbu is lacking at times in his game. With Mulumbus energy and drive and Yacobs ability to read the game and distribute the ball from deep, you have a potentially effective midfield partnership.

I'm not sure how valid your point about Ya Ya Toure is tbh Ruby. Sure, he's a powerhouse and gets about the pitch but he also has immense quality on the ball. If we're to bring in somebody with the physical attributes you are looking for its likely we would have to compromise on said players passing ability. Unfortunately that's the market we are in. If Clarke wants to produce a passing team than players like Yacob are surely preferable.

IMO the ability to read the game well and position yourself effectively will always trump pure physicality when it comes to defensive midfielders. Personally I can't see how you can compare the likes of Morrison and Dorrans to Yacob when the aforementioned are instinctively attacking players. Sure they may all be able to pass but the positions they take up on the pitch, their decision making and their general approach to the games will be very different

Having read your response on this one Nocky Im not sure that in actual fact we are that far away in our thinking rather that wwe are looking at the same problem through slightly differently tinted glasses! But to pick up on some of the points you make.
We both think Mulumbu is an excellent midfielder. I didnt actually say he instigates attacking play I merely responded to KPs quote "A player that breaks up and instigates" in simple terms he wins the ball and makes the first pass. In actual fact under RDM he was quite a bit more than that, I think he scored 8 times and actually was allowed to attack far more than under Roy. At no time have I said I would want to replace creative quality with just physical presence or say a Doumbia for a Jacob. The point I really made was we lack IMO a really strong presence in CM. So yes Jacob looks like a great signing but for me so would a Doumbia type to sit alongside. I dont see much difference in the basic skills that Jacob has v a Dorrans for instance. Indeed Roy had him sitting in a very deep sitting role for some games earlier in the season. But I think we agree that it is a role for a specialist if you like.
As for Ya Ya Toure I am a realist like you but the point Im making is that Man City the PL champions see a principal need for a player of that physical nature within their side.
I think we should learn from that.

But overall I think were not far away in terms of how we see things. From my point of view I just felt there were a number of games last season that were crying out for us to have a bit more of a presence in CM. Maybe Mulumbu has taken us as far as he is able in that sort of role?


Offline Jeremy Roland Peace

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #72 on: July 15, 2012, 03:18:05 PM »
I think we had earmarked David Vaughan for that playmaker role last summer, but he went to Sunderland instead.

I agree we need a player like Doumbia as well though, otherwise we're lacking physicality in the centre of midfield. Signing both would be ideal.

think we pulled out of that deal in the end as we had to use the funds to secure foster on loan and still pay myhill's wages as part of the loan deal

Offline Mike

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #73 on: July 15, 2012, 03:38:02 PM »
His signing would be the biggest indication yet that we will be moving away from 442 to a 5 man midfield.   

Offline WorcsWBA

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Re: Claudio Yacob
« Reply #74 on: July 15, 2012, 06:00:05 PM »
I cant see us signing both him and doumbia. We have Mulumbu and then we have a lot of attacking central midfielders. If Reid and Jara are here next season, they can fill in as defensive midfielders as well and then you have Thorne and Mantom on our books. It would be over kill to have both.

If Yacob and Doumbia are better than what we have, and we can get them both, then bring them in and sell someone from the existing squad (Mulumbu if needs be).