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Author Topic: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD  (Read 817395 times)

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Offline GREGMT

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7901 on: January 22, 2019, 08:43:25 PM »
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/emiliano-sala-plane-crash-missing-latest-news-was-on-flight-confirmed-statement-search-rescue-a8740181.html%3famp


Now confirmed by the French Aviation Authorities. Awful.

This is terrible and puts the game of football into perspective.  The plane was chartered by the owner or director of Cardiff City and the player expressed safety concerns on the outward flight.  I'm not sure how they'll be able to sleep at night? 

Your heart goes out to his family.

Offline TheJacko2000

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7902 on: January 22, 2019, 09:36:58 PM »
Awful, cannot understand who would suggest travelling in a light aircraft over open sea in January in the Northern Hemisphere, especially when money is no object.


Tragic.
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Offline liverbaggie

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7903 on: January 22, 2019, 09:59:55 PM »
What a tragedy,my love goes out to him and his family.
RIP mate.
Who on earth chartered a one engined light aircraft to fly over the channel at night!

Online Fritzl Palace

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7904 on: January 23, 2019, 09:08:00 AM »
Awful, cannot understand who would suggest travelling in a light aircraft over open sea in January in the Northern Hemisphere, especially when money is no object.


Tragic.

Agreed entirely. Utter madness.

Offline royhan

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7905 on: January 23, 2019, 10:06:52 AM »
It's good to learn this morning that rescuers haven't given up hope and are prioritising on the life raft option. Fingers crossed.

Offline Dexy

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7906 on: January 23, 2019, 11:10:26 AM »
Awful, cannot understand who would suggest travelling in a light aircraft over open sea in January in the Northern Hemisphere, especially when money is no object.


Tragic.
The player made his own flight plans according to the BBC ,can only pray for a miracle.
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Offline Scooby Doo

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7907 on: January 23, 2019, 02:31:05 PM »
Awful, cannot understand who would suggest travelling in a light aircraft over open sea in January in the Northern Hemisphere, especially when money is no object.


Tragic.

Really?! Some argue its the perfect month for flying small aircraft in the UK actually. Two people are pretty much passed away and all you can do is question the travelling method. I'd sooner travel in a light aircraft than any other form of transport to France or coming back.

It's an incredibly sad state of affairs for the friends and family of the two people.

Offline tuamigos

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7908 on: January 23, 2019, 02:35:29 PM »
The player himself apparently contacted his friends on social media and said the plane looked as if it was 'about to fall apart.'
If that was the case I might have had second thoughts before getting on.

Poor lad. RIP
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Offline AlbionFan

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7909 on: January 23, 2019, 02:42:49 PM »
This is a terrible tragedy involving a professional footballer but, let us not forget the other victim, the as yet unnamed pilot. We can only sit, wait, hope and pray for a miracle.

As yet we don’t know the cause of this accident but what surprises me is the reaction that somehow being flown at night over the English Channel is somewhat deemed to have been a dangerous and / or a reckless action to have undertaken. Are you serious?  That is a knee jerk reaction without being in full possession of the facts. And now it is being suggested that he made his own flying arrangements.

There must be hundreds of occasions each week when light, single engine aircraft fly across the English Channel at all times of the day and night in all weather conditions, without incident.

The fact they sent aircraft out to search the area in worsening conditions than when the plane went missing should not be overlooked. Below is a quote from Search and Rescue.

Chief executive of the Channel Islands Air Search, John Fitzgerald said: "We were called out by Guernsey Coastguard at 8.30pm, just as the aircraft had dropped off the radar and we were over Alderney by about 9pm.

"We stayed there until midnight before we flew back to Guernsey to change over the crew and refuel.

"There was about 15 to 20 miles visibility so we could see quite a lot during the first search but the lifeboats found it quite difficult. That area is always quite rough but from 1,000 feet, we can see straight down.

"It was not that bad but at about 2 or 3am wintry showers set in and the search was postponed. We went out again at 8am."

The fact the aircraft was allowed to take off at all suggest there was no concerns over safety. We need to wait for the Crash Investigation Teams report before jumping to conclusions. It might, just might have been an unforeseeable accident that could not have been mitigated whatever precautions were taken.
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Offline SmethDan

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7910 on: January 23, 2019, 02:46:10 PM »
This is a terrible tragedy involving a professional footballer but, let us not forget the other victim, the as yet unnamed pilot. We can only sit, wait, hope and pray for a miracle.

As yet we don’t know the cause of this accident but what surprises me is the reaction that somehow being flown at night over the English Channel is somewhat deemed to have been a dangerous and / or a reckless action to have undertaken. Are you serious?  That is a knee jerk reaction without being in full possession of the facts. And now it is being suggested that he made his own flying arrangements.

There must be hundreds of occasions each week when light, single engine aircraft fly across the English Channel at all times of the day and night in all weather conditions, without incident.

The fact they sent aircraft out to search the area in worsening conditions than when the plane went missing should not be overlooked. Below is a quote from Search and Rescue.

Chief executive of the Channel Islands Air Search, John Fitzgerald said: "We were called out by Guernsey Coastguard at 8.30pm, just as the aircraft had dropped off the radar and we were over Alderney by about 9pm.

"We stayed there until midnight before we flew back to Guernsey to change over the crew and refuel.

"There was about 15 to 20 miles visibility so we could see quite a lot during the first search but the lifeboats found it quite difficult. That area is always quite rough but from 1,000 feet, we can see straight down.

"It was not that bad but at about 2 or 3am wintry showers set in and the search was postponed. We went out again at 8am."

The fact the aircraft was allowed to take off at all suggest there was no concerns over safety. We need to wait for the Crash Investigation Teams report before jumping to conclusions. It might, just might have been an unforeseeable accident that could not have been mitigated whatever precautions were taken.

His name was Dave Ibbotson.
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Offline AlbionFan

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7911 on: January 23, 2019, 03:00:16 PM »
His name was Dave Ibbotson.

Thank you for the update as I hadn't seen his name referred to in the reports I'd read
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Offline liverbaggie

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7912 on: January 23, 2019, 03:50:55 PM »
I think one point people are making is that why fly at night?
In a one engine plane.
If it was in daylight the rescue teams have at least got a better chance of spotting them

Offline kie the baggie

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7913 on: January 23, 2019, 04:16:27 PM »
I think one point people are making is that why fly at night?
In a one engine plane.
If it was in daylight the rescue teams have at least got a better chance of spotting them
They have thermal imaging, wouldnt make a difference

Offline AlbionFan

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7914 on: January 23, 2019, 04:38:34 PM »
I think one point people are making is that why fly at night?
In a one engine plane.
If it was in daylight the rescue teams have at least got a better chance of spotting them

Like I said small aircraft are making that crossing many times in a week during daylight hours and night time hours. If it was considered unsafe to do so the plane wouldn't have been allowed to take off. Pilots undergo continual assessment of their flying skills in all scenarios, they have on board electronics for night flying, including GPS, guidance systems and autopilots, the plane that crashed had all those onboard systems and a competent pilot. It's probably safer to fly at night rather than drive I would suggest.

No doubt the plane had also got a location beacon onboard, which makes for easier location day or night. But a light plane crashing into the sea at about 200 mph, day or night would disintegrate. Bigger commercial airplanes than this one have taken days, weeks, months and some have never been found at all.

Here is part of the statement from the head of the search and rescue

"There was about 15 to 20 miles visibility so we could see quite a lot during the first search but the lifeboats found it quite difficult. That area is always quite rough but from 1,000 feet, we can see straight down"

Within 30 minutes of the plane disappearing off radar screens, at the last known location the Search plans were there. I doubt daytime or night time would have seen a different outcome. But as I said, we should wait for the official report into the cause before making our own assumptions.
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Offline johnny Cash

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7915 on: January 23, 2019, 04:51:18 PM »
There is a thread on an enthusiasts message board where they are discussion the incident, decision etc, which I personally don't think is insensitive, although some people might. 

https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/617514-cardiff-city-footballer-feared-missing-after-aircraft-disappeared-near-channel-island-10.html

Seems to me that the general consensus is that although the plane might be capable, the specific circumstances make the decision to fly this way with an uneducated passenger ridiculous.

To paraphrase, one person stated 'that if his son had called for his advice about his intention to fly in this way, he would basically said don't'.

Still you have to feel for those involved and the friends / family.


Offline johnny Cash

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7916 on: January 23, 2019, 05:01:44 PM »
Like I said small aircraft are making that crossing many times in a week during daylight hours and night time hours. If it was considered unsafe to do so the plane wouldn't have been allowed to take off. Pilots undergo continual assessment of their flying skills in all scenarios, they have on board electronics for night flying, including GPS, guidance systems and autopilots, the plane that crashed had all those onboard systems and a competent pilot. It's probably safer to fly at night rather than drive I would suggest.

No doubt the plane had also got a location beacon onboard, which makes for easier location day or night. But a light plane crashing into the sea at about 200 mph, day or night would disintegrate. Bigger commercial airplanes than this one have taken days, weeks, months and some have never been found at all.

Here is part of the statement from the head of the search and rescue

"There was about 15 to 20 miles visibility so we could see quite a lot during the first search but the lifeboats found it quite difficult. That area is always quite rough but from 1,000 feet, we can see straight down"

Within 30 minutes of the plane disappearing off radar screens, at the last known location the Search plans were there. I doubt daytime or night time would have seen a different outcome. But as I said, we should wait for the official report into the cause before making our own assumptions.

I'm sorry, but this thread doesn't support much of what you are saying at all.

https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/617514-cardiff-city-footballer-feared-missing-after-aircraft-disappeared-near-channel-island-10.html

Offline AlbionFan

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7917 on: January 23, 2019, 05:02:55 PM »
There is a thread on an enthusiasts message board where they are discussion the incident, decision etc, which I personally don't think is insensitive, although some people might. 

https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/617514-cardiff-city-footballer-feared-missing-after-aircraft-disappeared-near-channel-island-10.html

Seems to me that the general consensus is that although the plane might be capable, the specific circumstances make the decision to fly this way with an uneducated passenger ridiculous.

To paraphrase, one person stated 'that if his son had called for his advice about his intention to fly in this way, he would basically said don't'.

Still you have to feel for those involved and the friends / family.

I haven't read the thread, but I do think it is insensitive to get into a blame game over such a recent tragedy without knowing the full facts.
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Offline gerry m

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7918 on: January 23, 2019, 06:22:27 PM »
Lots of idiots posting on Facebook claiming different things >:(

Offline AlbionFan

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7919 on: January 23, 2019, 06:29:54 PM »
I'm sorry, but this thread doesn't support much of what you are saying at all.

https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/617514-cardiff-city-footballer-feared-missing-after-aircraft-disappeared-near-channel-island-10.html

And these are the UK Civil Avitaton Authority Investigators, right?
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Offline caravanc58

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7920 on: January 23, 2019, 06:37:17 PM »
is there a mode of transport that's only used during daylight. how sophisticated the world is now I wouldn't have thought it mattered whether it was night or day.

Offline johnny Cash

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7921 on: January 23, 2019, 07:01:14 PM »
And these are the UK Civil Avitaton Authority Investigators, right?

No, but what is your point?


Offline AlbionFan

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7922 on: January 23, 2019, 07:08:17 PM »
No, but what is your point?

Don’t make judgements about responsibility for the accident until you have all the officially verified facts relating to the crash
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Offline johnny Cash

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7923 on: January 23, 2019, 07:13:57 PM »
Don’t make judgements about responsibility for the accident until you have all the officially verified facts relating to the crash

I haven’t. However a course of action can still be reckless whether it results in a disaster or not.  You’ve speculated yourself that there must be hundreds of ‘small aircraft’ making this trip per week. I think the thread offers a reasonable counter that there certainly are not 100s if single engine aircraft taking passengers over the channel in conditions like the ones present that evening.

Offline AlbionFan

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Re: OFFICIAL PREMIER LEAGUE THREAD
« Reply #7924 on: January 23, 2019, 07:16:25 PM »
I haven’t. However a course of action can still be reckless whether it results in a disaster or not.  You’ve speculated yourself that there must be hundreds of ‘small aircraft’ making this trip per week. I think the thread offers a reasonable counter that there certainly are not 100s if single engine aircraft taking passengers over the channel in conditions like the ones present that evening.

Quote today from CAA’s Richard Taylor

“There’s nothing preventing a single engine aircraft flying commercially at night. They were restricted to daytime under commercial operations until a few years ago for a turbine engine aircraft.

“They can now fly at night and in difficult conditions. But we don’t know what engine this aircraft has.”
“We create success or failure on the pitch primarily by our thoughts.”