[Dexy]

There are two aspects to vaccination, the first is to give protection to yourself, the second is the selfless act of protecting others, if as a result of having my jabs, I gain an advantage in having more liberties because I'm less likely to infect others, so be it.

Thats my view too , its not something I really wanted but if it keeps people around me safer and means I'm playing my part then so be it . Been dog rough for days though !

[Baggies]

Not much to add to what others have said on here.

For foreign travel? Understandable, although those who can't have the vaccine shouldn't be discriminated against and so a test should be enough for them.

As for domestic life? No, it would be a step too far. I understand some jobs need proof of a negative test such as those working with vulnerable people, but for all else it starts to become too much of a case of the state exercising too much control over our private lives.

Once the pandemic is under control, we will need to learn to live with it. Keep things like face masks in supermarkets etc, fine, but a medical certificate is just too much.

[KN22]

Thats my view too , its not something I really wanted but if it keeps people around me safer and means I'm playing my part then so be it . Been dog rough for days though !

I totally agree with this viewpoint and have used exactly that thought process in my decision making. Had first jab almost 5 weeks ago.

[SmethDan]

As a society we've sacrificed a lot over the last twelve months. By and large the majority of us have followed guidance as best as we can. We've been separated from friends and loved ones and sacrificed much of our every day lives.

Despite the furlough scheme a good number of us will have been hit in the pocket financially. More than a few of us will have downloaded an app which tracks our general movements (which were known anyway) but more specifically our exact location. Our habits are better known.

Cash payments were already in decline but they've now dropped off a cliff by comparison. Our spending habits and finances are better known, not just as a society but as individuals. If 'the man' didn't know us before, 'the man' certainly knows us now.

The majority of us have agreed to be vaccinated by a medicine which will ease the symptoms of a terrible virus. But it doesn't mean we no longer catch the virus, it doesn't mean we don't pass it on and it most certainly doesn't cure us.

And now it seems we may need some form of passport to allow us to go about our daily lives. I understand the situation regarding foreign travel but it would be great if someone could explain to me why the **** I should have gone through those last twelve months only to need permission to go about my daily life moving forward.

The passport notion is a massive and exasperated no from me.

[tuamigos]

As a society we've sacrificed a lot over the last twelve months. By and large the majority of us have followed guidance as best as we can. We've been separated from friends and loved ones and sacrificed much of our every day lives.

Despite the furlough scheme a good number of us will have been hit in the pocket financially. More than a few of us will have downloaded an app which tracks our general movements (which were known anyway) but more specifically our exact location. Our habits are better known.

Cash payments were already in decline but they've now dropped off a cliff by comparison. Our spending habits and finances are better known, not just as a society but as individuals. If 'the man' didn't know us before, 'the man' certainly knows us now.

The majority of us have agreed to be vaccinated by a medicine which will ease the symptoms of a terrible virus. But it doesn't mean we no longer catch the virus, it doesn't mean we don't pass it on and it most certainly doesn't cure us.

And now it seems we may need some form of passport to allow us to go about our daily lives. I understand the situation regarding foreign travel but it would be great if someone could explain to me why the **** I should have gone through those last twelve months only to need permission to go about my daily life moving forward.

The passport notion is a massive and exasperated no from me.

'The man' has known us for years, as soon as you start posting all your personal details on the likes of Facebook, twitter and instagram your details are out there. So much so that most employers use these platforms for reference checks on potential employees. They know who you mix with, where you go, what you drink, how often you drink, what clubs or societies your are aligned to the list is endless.
Yet when asked, 'have you had the jab' they turn round and say 'I'm not telling you that it's private'
Laughable.

[johnny Cash]

I’m surprised that some of those who are against vaccine passports have / will have the vaccine. I thought in the main it would be people who hadn’t / wouldnt.

What exactly do you think your local landlord will do with this information? obviously for those who don’t want the vaccine it’s the threat/fear or being segregated or missing out or what not. Statistically they’ll be able to take a good guess if you’ve had it anyway.

Not wanting to disclose medical history seems the one answer, I wonder what you do if asked if you’ve got any allergies, do you tell the waiter to f off? Also the idea that courts would throw it out is misplaced, they’d surely legislate it and that would mean court support.

As it happens I don’t think we will see vaccine passports for anything other than travel on this occasion as the data seems to be positive  and I don’t think it’s looking necessary now. It may be something human history has to deal with at some point in the future though, as might mandatory or even forced vaccines 

[Baggies]

I have no problem with the vaccine itself - I've had mine and find the anti-vax movement to be like flat earthers or illuminate conspiracy junkies.

Bringing in a vaccine passport however is a slippery slope. It isn't the landlords that are the issue, it's that it shouldn't be an enforced law that you have to have a passport to live your life.

It discriminates against those who can't have the vaccine, it plays into the hands of conspiracy theorists and it's draconian. Before you know it you need a vaccine passport to work. It's not all that different to the ID cards idea years ago.

There should be a separation between the amount of control a government can exert over private citizens of a country. This government have become more and more authoritarian, as seen with these anti protest laws. If we hand over too much control, it might be fine now and in 5 years time, but one look over to the continent, to what is happening in Hungary and now in Poland should be a warning to who could rule us in years to come.

[Dudleylad]

That is  my view also its such a slippery slope if we go down a vaccine passport route.

I for one am concerned where it would lead for people who cannot have the vaccine etc.

[The Black Pearl]

I don't have a problem with vaccine passports in certain scenarios, I don't buy the civil liberty arguement, people who quote that really mean their own liberties and by default, usually means to some one else's detriment, spreading virus etc. Just an excuse for selfishness.
Foreign travel now brings a real risk to the UK and this is where vaccine passports should be used. Maybe also indoor music venues where risk is high.

[SmethDan]

'The man' has known us for years, as soon as you start posting all your personal details on the likes of Facebook, twitter and instagram your details are out there.....

The only details that are on those platforms are the ones you choose to share. Choice. It's my choice not to be on those platforms. It was my choice to have the first vaccine and it will be my choice to have the second one in future should I choose to.

If they were to introduce a passport for the day to days of the new normal I would 'have' to have one for a more restricted freedom than the one I had before. Why should I or anyone else need to do that, especially following what we've already given as a consequence of lockdowns?

[gazberg]

People who are pro-passport are completely missing the point that it's about the removal of individual rights and liberty. It's all about force and coercion across the land. Your own desire/demand to feel safe does not give you any right to remove freedoms from any other person.

Despicable as it would be it's not even that forcing people to have a covid passport in itself is the end of the society as we know it but it is the beginning of it. The government will grow faster than you could have ever feared and you will end up with little rights and liberty.

Once governments have taken rights and freedoms they historically rarely give them back. It's what government is and it's what governments do regardless of political party.

What starts as "oh its only 2 weeks to flatten the curve" becomes accepted as the norm as the state enforces it's draconian measures. Very few people fought back and the media made sure society scolded those that did. After now complying like good little boys and girls for 12 months+ and with vaccine rollouts almost halfway done, cases and deaths dropping we are still having to beg for our lives back. Reason we can't have our lives back even if had both jabs? Vaccines arent 100% effective. We knew that before they existed.

Shame on me for being complicit.

[gerry m]

People who are pro-passport are completely missing the point that it's about the removal of individual rights and liberty. It's all about force and coercion across the land. Your own desire/demand to feel safe does not give you any right to remove freedoms from any other person.

Despicable as it would be it's not even that forcing people to have a covid passport in itself is the end of the society as we know it but it is the beginning of it. The government will grow faster than you could have ever feared and you will end up with little rights and liberty.

Once governments have taken rights and freedoms they historically rarely give them back. It's what government is and it's what governments do regardless of political party.

What starts as "oh its only 2 weeks to flatten the curve" becomes accepted as the norm as the state enforces it's draconian measures. Very few people fought back and the media made sure society scolded those that did. After now complying like good little boys and girls for 12 months+ and with vaccine rollouts almost halfway done, cases and deaths dropping we are still having to beg for our lives back. Reason we can't have our lives back even if had both jabs? Vaccines arent 100% effective. We knew that before they existed.

Shame on me for being complicit.

A very well thought out post gazberg. Like millions of Brits i like to go abroad and had the jab thinking once i have the second one i will be ok. Just feeling we are being coerced into doing what the Government tell us we have to.

[gazberg]

It was so obvious from the start what was going to happen and i did try and warn people on here but more than 1 person on here said that i just wanted people to die because i was opposed to a permanent, society wide, blanket lockdown which is absurd frankly.

[The Black Pearl]

It was so obvious from the start what was going to happen and i did try and warn people on here but more than 1 person on here said that i just wanted people to die because i was opposed to a permanent, society wide, blanket lockdown which is absurd frankly.

I respect your viewpoint but I disagree with you, this virus does not respect individual freedoms, in fact, it thrives on them, no coincidence that the countries that have the best record at controlling the virus are those that restrict individual freedoms, the uncomfortable truth is that human beings are selfish creatures, in a pandemic those urges have to be controlled for the greater good.
I don't buy into slippery slope to loss of freedoms either, Boris delayed the first lockdown for exactly the the reasons of maintaining Liberal freedoms, the bottom line is we have to be protected from ourselves.

[johnny Cash]

Nobody is just pro passport for the sake of it as far as I can tell. There has to be positive reasons for it.

If the science and data say mixing as we did before is not possible for a period of time for everyone, but will be ok for those who are vaccinated (providing it’s when everyone has had the option otherwise it just penalises the young) and its a choice between more restrictive locks downs or vaccine passports then many will happily take a vaccine passport.

What Liberty does that take, if anything it opens things up for what will look like 70% maybe more. That allows the economy to begin to tick again. .

Those saying yeah but vaccines passports introduced on the back of a pandemic in order to help normal life for the majority leads to ‘x’ ‘y’ ‘z’ and the state of North Korea in the future.... I just don’t see it.

[gazberg]

I respect your viewpoint but I disagree with you, this virus does not respect individual freedoms, in fact, it thrives on them, no coincidence that the countries that have the best record at controlling the virus are those that restrict individual freedoms, the uncomfortable truth is that human beings are selfish creatures, in a pandemic those urges have to be controlled for the greater good.
I don't buy into slippery slope to loss of freedoms either, Boris delayed the first lockdown for exactly the the reasons of maintaining Liberal freedoms, the bottom line is we have to be protected from ourselves.

Same TBP, i respect anyone who puts their viewpoint across calmly and fairly whether i agree or not.

I agree some human beings are selfish creatures but many will stick to guidelines (majority have done) if fair, sensible and logical. Taking lives away from 50 million people because of a minority will never sit right with me. All the government did was take the easiest option and trashed everyones lives and jobs with little care or thought.

[gazberg]

Nobody is just pro passport for the sake of it as far as I can tell. There has to be positive reasons for it.

If the science and data say mixing as we did before is not possible for a period of time for everyone, but will be ok for those who are vaccinated (providing it’s when everyone has had the option otherwise it just penalises the young) and its a choice between more restrictive locks downs or vaccine passports then many will happily take a vaccine passport.

What Liberty does that take, if anything it opens things up for what will look like 70% maybe more. That allows the economy to begin to tick again. .

Those saying yeah but vaccines passports introduced on the back of a pandemic in order to help normal life for the majority leads to ‘x’ ‘y’ ‘z’ and the state of North Korea in the future.... I just don’t see it.

It's governmental force taking away individual liberty mate. Take the vaccine or else become a lower tier citizen. Thats the long and short of it. Government has no right to do that.

We all remember how well things went last time there was a 2 tier citizenship in a country in Europe with badges to identify themselves and of course things wont get anywhere near that but they will get VERY divisive.

It's hard to make an individual do stupid things but collective stupidity and insanity is very easy to obtain once the mob is formed.

If covid passports/badges are enforced do people really believe there won't be groups of people kicking the rubbish out of people who refuse to wear it? There will be violence no doubt about it.

[The Black Pearl]

Same TBP, i respect anyone who puts their viewpoint across calmly and fairly whether i agree or not.

I agree some human beings are selfish creatures but many will stick to guidelines (majority have done) if fair, sensible and logical. Taking lives away from 50 million people because of a minority will never sit right with me. All the government did was take the easiest option and trashed everyones lives and jobs with little care or thought.

All I would say is that Brazil gives the example for the world to see what happens when we let the virus run, shovelling bodies into mass graves with bulldozers is not a price I'm prepared to pay for civil liberties.

[TheJacko2000]

All I would say is that Brazil gives the example for the world to see what happens when we let the virus run, shovelling bodies into mass graves with bulldozers is not a price I'm prepared to pay for civil liberties.

So does Florida...

[gazberg]

All I would say is that Brazil gives the example for the world to see what happens when we let the virus run, shovelling bodies into mass graves with bulldozers is not a price I'm prepared to pay for civil liberties.

Yet USA data shows little difference between lockdown states and states with no lockdown. Built up city or not. USA does have higher standard of living of course compared to Brazil as do we.

[LiamTheBaggie]

Nobody is just pro passport for the sake of it as far as I can tell. There has to be positive reasons for it.

I think the only time I could support a vaccine passport was if the vaccines provided immunity to catching the virus.

But even if that was the case, why would a passport be required?

I just cannot understand if the vaccine is the root to normal life why it would require a passport to enable me to do so.

If folk choose not to take their vaccination and are subsequently ill then that is a decision they live with. If others choose to take the vaccination and are now immune then well done to them.

It creates a two tier society and I am vehemently opposed to that - especially when their are members of society unable to take the vaccine or whom are reluctant to do so.

[gazberg]

I think the only time I could support a vaccine passport was if the vaccines provided immunity to catching the virus.

But even if that was the case, why would a passport be required?

I just cannot understand if the vaccine is the root to normal life why it would require a passport to enable me to do so.

If folk choose not to take their vaccination and are subsequently ill then that is a decision they live with. If others choose to take the vaccination and are now immune then well done to them.

It creates a two tier society and I am vehemently opposed to that - especially when their are members of society unable to take the vaccine or whom are reluctant to do so.

This is it. If someone doesnt take the vaccine they are at increased risk of suffering from it or dying from it. Their risk, their choice. If you've had the vaccine you are more likely to die in a car accident than from covid.

[The Black Pearl]

I think the only time I could support a vaccine passport was if the vaccines provided immunity to catching the virus.

But even if that was the case, why would a passport be required?

I just cannot understand if the vaccine is the root to normal life why it would require a passport to enable me to do so.

If folk choose not to take their vaccination and are subsequently ill then that is a decision they live with. If others choose to take the vaccination and are now immune then well done to them.

It creates a two tier society and I am vehemently opposed to that - especially when their are members of society unable to take the vaccine or whom are reluctant to do so.

It's just an interim measure Liam to allow some of the freedoms we all want.
If people can not take a vaccine for a legitimate reason, they should not be disadvantaged as result.
Vaccine passports are coming for some scenarios wether we like it or not. Better to construct the arguement than fight the inevitable. Pubs should definitely not require vaccine passports.

[smosher34]

Just interested mate, if it's not too personal a question why have you decided not to have the jab?

No  problems . I got a few reason why not having it but its my own personal choice . I cant see how they have made a vaccine in 8 months for this covid 19 without long extensive trials. theres a 98% survival rate if catch it . i personally do not know anyone who has died from it .i know people who have had it and made them ill. and i do not belive the figures they publish are a true figure of who had died of covid alone always says related. this is just my opinion would never tell anyone not to have the vaccine . Alot may not agree with what i say but hay hoo all agreed on everything be a boring life.

[The Black Pearl]

No  problems . I got a few reason why not having it but its my own personal choice . I cant see how they have made a vaccine in 8 months for this covid 19 without long extensive trials. theres a 98% survival rate if catch it . i personally do not know anyone who has died from it .i know people who have had it and made them ill. and i do not belive the figures they publish are a true figure of who had died of covid alone always says related. this is just my opinion would never tell anyone not to have the vaccine . Alot may not agree with what i say but hay hoo all agreed on everything be a boring life.

It's not taken 8 months, the methodologies have been 10 years in development.