Poll

How do you rate our chances of survival under Allardyce?

Better than under Bilic
Worse than under Bilic
About the same

Author Topic: Chances of survival  (Read 10632 times)

Standaman, baggie82, AlbertaBaggie, Senna68, pensnett stu and 5 Guests are viewing this topic.

FallOutBoy

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 2576
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2020, 11:43:19 AM »
I still think they're the same - slim to none.

How many of our players are of sufficient quality to play in the Premier League? How many of them can play the kind of pragmatic style Allardyce will want?

For me, you could put Pep, Klopp, or Mourinho in charge of this bunch of players and they would struggle to keep them up.

I have no doubt Allardyce will do his best, but any manager has their limits as to what they can achieve.

hardtobeat

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 4044
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2020, 12:12:52 PM »
I still think they're the same - slim to none.

How many of our players are of sufficient quality to play in the Premier League? How many of them can play the kind of pragmatic style Allardyce will want?

For me, you could put Pep, Klopp, or Mourinho in charge of this bunch of players and they would struggle to keep them up.

I have no doubt Allardyce will do his best, but any manager has their limits as to what they can achieve.
Pretty much along the same lines as my thoughts. These players are what they are in the main thats as an honest a bunch as we have had for a while,  a squad arguably too good for the Championship but woefully short in terms of both ability and experience for the Premier League particularly this season with no fans and fixtures in a shortened time frame with less pre season .
Without a minimum of 3 genuine Prem quality players I think anybody that thinks Allardyce will turn us into a force good enough to stop up is probably in fantasy land !
Why ? Because his stock in trade is making his teams difficult to beat , clean sheets his gospel but for the average and below clean sheets seem much harder to achieve now and fair play to the players and Bilic and his staff we have improved IMO witness the performances against Spurs , United and City all games where I think anybody would be hard put to get much more out of this group. Yes there have been disappointments chucked in recently , the collapse against Palace, 11 v 11 though and I think we were looking the more likely, Saturday against Newcastle disappointing yes but in fairness we were the better side 2nd half and a point would have been well deserved.  especially considering the start we had!
That said I don’t see how our chances have improved without the aforementioned signings which makes the timing and method of Bilics sacking questionable on so many levels.The only surprise being he didn’t get wind of what had clearly been goin on behind his back for sometime
Baggie for life not just for Xmas

leeiswba

  • Senior Baggie

  • Online
  • *****

  • 3001
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2020, 04:59:38 PM »
Didn’t Di Matteo get sacked after Man City away and then Hodgson come in and his first game was a local derby followed by taking us to safety  :P

The first two are exactly the same let’s hope the third point follows

Cardiaccarol

  • Baby Baggie

  • Online
  • *

  • 68
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2020, 06:00:22 PM »
Also the first points from the great escape year- point at city - without a shot on target

mulliganstired

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 4372
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #29 on: December 18, 2020, 06:03:03 PM »
Also the first points from the great escape year- point at city - without a shot on target
Remember that very clearly, Earnshaw chased to help create an own goal - but it wasn't the first points was it?

Cardiaccarol

  • Baby Baggie

  • Online
  • *

  • 68
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #30 on: December 18, 2020, 06:17:22 PM »
You are correct but it was the beginning of the surge

leeiswba

  • Senior Baggie

  • Online
  • *****

  • 3001
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #31 on: December 18, 2020, 06:31:35 PM »
Remember that very clearly, Earnshaw chased to help create an own goal - but it wasn't the first points was it?


Remember being there, only 12 at the time. Albion fans chanting ‘robson out’ he had only been there a couple of months

geoff

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 6840
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2020, 09:40:29 PM »
I voted about the same why, if he gets has much backing has Slav did & his signings don't get signed until the last days of the window were in the ****
« Last Edit: December 19, 2020, 12:22:01 AM by MarkW »

zippyandbungle

  • WBA Coach

  • Online
  • ******

  • 5221
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2020, 11:56:33 PM »
Pretty much along the same lines as my thoughts. These players are what they are in the main thats as an honest a bunch as we have had for a while,  a squad arguably too good for the Championship but woefully short in terms of both ability and experience for the Premier League particularly this season with no fans and fixtures in a shortened time frame with less pre season .
Without a minimum of 3 genuine Prem quality players I think anybody that thinks Allardyce will turn us into a force good enough to stop up is probably in fantasy land !
Why ? Because his stock in trade is making his teams difficult to beat , clean sheets his gospel but for the average and below clean sheets seem much harder to achieve now and fair play to the players and Bilic and his staff we have improved IMO witness the performances against Spurs , United and City all games where I think anybody would be hard put to get much more out of this group. Yes there have been disappointments chucked in recently , the collapse against Palace, 11 v 11 though and I think we were looking the more likely, Saturday against Newcastle disappointing yes but in fairness we were the better side 2nd half and a point would have been well deserved.  especially considering the start we had!
That said I don’t see how our chances have improved without the aforementioned signings which makes the timing and method of Bilics sacking questionable on so many levels.The only surprise being he didn’t get wind of what had clearly been goin on behind his back for sometime
But managed to draw with Man City and Chelsea ?
On the final point, Bilic probably did hear about it ....but why would he have bolted and missed out on a few million goodbye ?
If youre going to get told off, get told off for doing something not for doing nothing..

alex1

  • Senior Baggie

  • Online
  • *****

  • 3784
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2020, 01:22:30 AM »
I think SA will concentrate on tightening us up at the back, and for that reason the problem scoring goals will be neglected.  So less goals conceded is good, but I can't see us being able to control matches through the midfield and getting up in numbers to support the forwards.  Will be interested to see if he stifles full backs getting forward, always a tell-tale sign.
If he does improve any aspect of our attacking, I think it will be through concentrating on scoring from corners and set pieces.  I know it doesn't matter how the ball crosses the line as they all count the same, but after a while you want to see more variety in the team's attacking play. Pulis was another who specialised in set pieces.
 
I think he may be able to bring greater discipline to the players in being able to  manage matches. How many times this season have we failed to keep concentrating through until the final minute, and ended up dropping points?

All in all, I think our chances of survival will be about the same as they were under SB. SA will improve us in some areas, but will neglect other areas.

Einstein: A definition of insanity- someone who takes the same action time after time, even though previously it's always ended in failure

Oldbury24

  • Youth Baggie

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 575
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2020, 03:27:16 AM »
Without a change in personnel it's about the same.  If FS can bring in a few loans......a big man up top and an experienced DM to make his system work then maybe we can see our chances increase slightly.   

GREGMT

  • Youth Baggie

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 945
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2020, 09:03:08 PM »
I think SU and WBA are almost gone.  Burnley play SU soon also.  To have a chance we have to beat either Leeds or Arsenal, I just can't see it.

Allardyce has made a huge mistake coming here and we'd have been better off sticking with Bilic for a long term project.

The penny will finally drop with people about the massive impact VAR has had on Albion's season.

Gilsey 56

  • Junior Baggie

  • Offline
  • **

  • 209
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #37 on: December 21, 2020, 09:14:52 PM »
At this moment the club have no chance of staying up and, as I have said recently on here, all we have achieved so far is to put the club back years after sacking Bilic.
We are in a shambles and after watching last night Big Sam will need to perform a miracle.
I think the recent events definitely point to behind the scenes takeover talks but its a massive gamble.

overseas baggie

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3179
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2020, 09:24:35 PM »
At this moment the club have no chance of staying up and, as I have said recently on here, all we have achieved so far is to put the club back years after sacking Bilic.
We are in a shambles and after watching last night Big Sam will need to perform a miracle.
I think the recent events definitely point to behind the scenes takeover talks but its a massive gamble.

In any normal year I’d agree with you, but there are a minimum of 5 poor teams and while we are within a few points of them we have a decent chance, especially if we strike early in the transfer window.

GREGMT

  • Youth Baggie

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 945
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2020, 09:32:22 PM »
In any normal year I’d agree with you, but there are a minimum of 5 poor teams and while we are within a few points of them we have a decent chance, especially if we strike early in the transfer window.

Albion strike early in a transfer window, when has that ever happened?  We need to strike early to recruit quality, not the likes of Phil Jones or James Tomkins.

ex coseley kid

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 2262
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2020, 09:45:23 PM »
My biggest remaining gripe is that 'The Management' were unable to accommodate more players for SB, yet, hey, of COURSE we can get additions to the squad, Sammy.

I mean great, I hope they can; Christ knows it's needed. But what exactly has changed Mr. Dowling?
Head honcho of the Electric Boogie Club, purveyors of (mostly) 70's groove music

Baggies

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 18252
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #41 on: December 22, 2020, 06:08:46 AM »
I can't help but feel Allardyce had really bitten of more than he can chew with us this year. 5 points away from safety already with Burnley 6 points and a game in hand clear. The rest of the pack already look too far in the distance to catch unless we put together a real run of results. Its starting to feel like we will need to finish top of a mini league with Brighton, Fulham and Sheff Utd, which doesn't leave much room for error.

Without the fans energy to feed off, i'm not sure if Allardyce or football works as well (which may explain Pulis's, Wilder's and Dyche's struggles this season).

I suppose the only grim silver lining it's that if Allardyce dpes fail, the likes of him and Pulis might finally fall out of favour.
Boing Boing

Standaman

  • WBA Coach

  • Online
  • ******

  • 7205
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2020, 06:41:36 AM »
There is virtually no chance of us staying up.

While the summer business might have been less than coherent it is pretty much a complete write off under Allardyce. He probably needs a minimum of 4 signings to make his brand of hoofball work and about half the squad's Albion career is virtually over or at least until we fire Allardyce when we get relegated.

We have largely lost access to the overseas market and will be recruiting fallen stars on bloated wages who will be impossible to shift when relegation happens.

In any event by the time the window closes we will have played 8 games and we will be a minimum of 10 points adrift.
Standaman - Born to be a Baggie.

miggybaggy

  • Youth Baggie

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 650
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2020, 09:27:07 AM »
There is virtually no chance of us staying up.

While the summer business might have been less than coherent it is pretty much a complete write off under Allardyce. He probably needs a minimum of 4 signings to make his brand of hoofball work and about half the squad's Albion career is virtually over or at least until we fire Allardyce when we get relegated.

We have largely lost access to the overseas market and will be recruiting fallen stars on bloated wages who will be impossible to shift when relegation happens.

In any event by the time the window closes we will have played 8 games and we will be a minimum of 10 points adrift.

No, that's right. Until there's a change of ownership we have to accept that competing in the prem is beyond our financial means. Whoever manages this squad doesn't have a prayer and I think Allardyce knows that only too well and is only here for one last massive salary. And he will no doubt bring in a few ageing former premiership hoofball merchants also looking for one last massive salary to boost their retirement pots. When will we learn? We will spend the next 5 years, at least, competing in the championship with teams also at our level, such as Blues, Notts Forest, Stoke, Derby, Middlesborough etc... Lai out!

ex coseley kid

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 2262
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2020, 09:42:11 AM »
No, that's right. Until there's a change of ownership we have to accept that competing in the prem is beyond our financial means. Whoever manages this squad doesn't have a prayer and I think Allardyce knows that only too well and is only here for one last massive salary. And he will no doubt bring in a few ageing former premiership hoofball merchants also looking for one last massive salary to boost their retirement pots. When will we learn? We will spend the next 5 years, at least, competing in the championship with teams also at our level, such as Blues, Notts Forest, Stoke, Derby, Middlesborough etc... Lai out!

I can see us dropping to League One with our current ownership. No spending will be made in January, as you say we will be several points adrift. We are up rubbish creek without a rudder.
Head honcho of the Electric Boogie Club, purveyors of (mostly) 70's groove music

NJS

  • Youth Baggie

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 393
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #45 on: December 22, 2020, 10:03:12 AM »
Congratulations to Sean Dyche and Burnley for their defeat of Wolves last night.  Burnley came up under Dyche, were relegated but the club stood by him.  He took them up again.  Shows what can happen with some integrity.
I think we're going down the only difference Allardyce will make is that we will be relegated playing awful football instead of what I thought was quite attractive football.  At the same time, our management has announced itself as a knee-jerk hire and fire outfit sufficient to deter many promising managers from considering working at the Hawthorns.
I am sure that the style of football will be as equally off-putting to talented players.  Overall we will not win many friends under the total Allardyce package.

People are talking of signing on quality players, I shudder to think of way that will be financed.  My worst case scenario is that Lai might mortgage the Hawthorns in an attempt to keep us in the awful EPL.
Hales Owen born. 
Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has. Rene Descartes

tommcneill

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Manager

  • Online
  • *****

  • 13106
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #46 on: December 22, 2020, 10:08:32 AM »
Congratulations to Sean Dyche and Burnley for their defeat of Wolves last night.  Burnley came up under Dyche, were relegated but the club stood by him.  He took them up again.  Shows what can happen with some integrity.
I think we're going down the only difference Allardyce will make is that we will be relegated playing awful football instead of what I thought was quite attractive football.  At the same time, our management has announced itself as a knee-jerk hire and fire outfit sufficient to deter many promising managers from considering working at the Hawthorns.
I am sure that the style of football will be as equally off-putting to talented players.  Overall we will not win many friends under the total Allardyce package.

People are talking of signing on quality players, I shudder to think of way that will be financed.  My worst case scenario is that Lai might mortgage the Hawthorns in an attempt to keep us in the awful EPL.

So praising Dyche whilst running Allardyce down when both managers play the exact same brand?

Bilic was removed from his position, and rightly so, mainly for his relationship breakdown with the board.

Then add in poor performances, leaking goals, failing to score etc etc

But we played good football apparently?? Did we? Must have missed that...

Strange how everyone is praising the Man City performance, which came off the back of an Allardyce style game plan, yet hate Allardyce football  :-\ and think we play tippy tappy nice looking football.
Dexy : Dudleylad : kris_boing : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Adder : Hull Baggie : lewisant : Political Cake : tommcneill

its not just the winning thats important...its rubbing the losers face in it after that counts

baggie82

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Online
  • ****

  • 2303
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #47 on: December 22, 2020, 10:17:04 AM »
I’ve gone for about the same as we had a very slim chance of staying up under Bilic and nothing has changed, except the players have lost the manager they loved.

tommcneill

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Manager

  • Online
  • *****

  • 13106
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #48 on: December 22, 2020, 10:18:48 AM »
I’ve gone for about the same as we had a very slim chance of staying up under Bilic and nothing has changed, except the players have lost the manager they loved.

Players have played for several managers throughout their careers that they like.

They move on

As should we
Dexy : Dudleylad : kris_boing : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Adder : Hull Baggie : lewisant : Political Cake : tommcneill

its not just the winning thats important...its rubbing the losers face in it after that counts

baggie82

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Online
  • ****

  • 2303
Re: Chances of survival
« Reply #49 on: December 22, 2020, 10:23:36 AM »
Players have played for several managers throughout their careers that they like.

They move on

As should we

Usually when a manager is appointed you a get a new manager bounce. So far we have had a new manager drop. Those players looked depressed against Villa and they appeared to hate the tactic of smashing the ball into the channel, as opposed to trying to work the ball up the pitch. Can’t blame them, they are only human and loved playing for Slaven.