Author Topic: Sam Allardyce  (Read 102066 times)

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Fritzl Palace

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #475 on: December 21, 2020, 11:33:32 AM »
Allardyce has spoken a number of times about how, at Palace, it was the January strengthening of the side with Milovojevic and Sakho that made all the difference for him.

I do not think for a second that he will not be looking to bring a DM and another centre back in during the window.

baggie82

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #476 on: December 21, 2020, 11:44:52 AM »
Not complete rubbish at all. I wasn't talking about the amount of money spent but how having brought players in he didn't play a formation that suited them.
I don't expect every transfer to work out and never said I did but I would expect the manager to play a formation that at least played to players strengths.

The reason Bilic kept changing the formation and shape was because we weren’t picking up results and to combat the opposition. Ultimately the team just isn’t close to being good enough. No matter what formation or team we are yet to lay a glove on the league.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #477 on: December 21, 2020, 11:46:41 AM »
Allardyce has spoken a number of times about how, at Palace, it was the January strengthening of the side with Milovojevic and Sakho that made all the difference for him.

I do not think for a second that he will not be looking to bring a DM and another centre back in during the window.

Good luck with that given the likelihood of:

1) No budget
2) Team cut adrift in the relegation zone

At least Palace had the London pull.

Why would any half decent player want to sign for Albion and Alladyce in January?

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #478 on: December 21, 2020, 11:47:57 AM »
What exactly is this different way to play under SA which guarantees more points?

I'm really interested to learn this from the guys that wanted Bilic dismissed.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #479 on: December 21, 2020, 11:50:32 AM »
The reason Bilic kept changing the formation and shape was because we weren’t picking up results and to combat the opposition. Ultimately the team just isn’t close to being good enough. No matter what formation or team we are yet to lay a glove on the league.

Funny that, because it seemed like he a) had no idea of his best team AND b) no idea of the best system to play AND c) no idea what he was doing.

Aside from that, plus only scoring around half a goal a game and conceding a league high amount it was going swimmingly I thought.
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #480 on: December 21, 2020, 11:52:54 AM »
Complete rubbish. If all the players Bilić signed were sold we would have more money than he spent. You may not have picked this up but Bilić was reluctant to spend most of his miserly budget on Diangana, he thought he could get him on loan later on in the window and wanted to spread the cash around. Steve Madely had a detailed article in the Athletic last week. It was Dowling and the board that pushed the transfer through on the basis it would be a good long term investment. What really goads me about your statement is how unfair it is to expect every transfer to work and to work instantly. Overall Bilić recruitment was impressive. All signings are a risk. Alex Ferguson made plenty of mistakes. It’s easy to beat the manager if your holding him out to an impossible standard. He worked a miracle to rebuild that squad and engineer promotion last season, when he was given peanuts.
He didn't work a miracle last year, we had one of the strongest squads, wage bills and still had parachute payments. Us getting promoted was about as miraculous as Liverpool's multi-million pound squad winning the greed league. Unexpected, maybe, miracle, certainly not!

What he did do was enforce that advantage in regards maximising our superior players, which just about got us over the line, despite being weak defensively.

What he didn't do was adapt to life in the greed league and failed to address the flaws in his squad and his approach, hence we are left with a squad that has no ability to play on the back foot, but is not good enough to play on the front.

Of course the useless recruitment team and board are culpable but Bilic was in charge of team affairs and got it spectacularly wrong. If you don't accept that, and purely blame Dowling and Lai, then you cannot blame Allardyce, going forward, as, if it wasn't Bilic's fault, it can't be his either.


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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #481 on: December 21, 2020, 11:59:59 AM »
What exactly is this different way to play under SA which guarantees more points?

I'm really interested to learn this from the guys that wanted Bilic dismissed.

I don't think anyone has said that playing in a different way guarantees us more points, it's more that being more defensively solid will give us more of a chance to stay up that being defensively poor (which Man City apart, we have been)
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #482 on: December 21, 2020, 12:03:26 PM »
Bilic's biggest mistake was putting his faith in majority of squad that got him promoted. As an experienced coach i thought that this was a bit naive of him and that was one of the factors that got him the sack.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #483 on: December 21, 2020, 12:09:56 PM »
I don't think anyone has said that playing in a different way guarantees us more points, it's more that being more defensively solid will give us more of a chance to stay up that being defensively poor (which Man City apart, we have been)

More defensively solid, lol.  Well we got off to a flier last night.  With Liverpool A next we may reach double figures in the goals against column 2 games in.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #484 on: December 21, 2020, 12:17:18 PM »
Why not credit Bilic with signing the excellent Gallagher?

I honestly don't know what you expect for £35m outlay, talk about unrealistic.

Satisfied with last night's showing?
1. I have which frustrates me more because clear as day a DM would be ideal with CG and even you could see Livermore/ Sawyers wouldnt be good enough.
2. Answer your own question again , you only have 35m then you dont waste a loan especially when you had that player last season. I wouldnt be surprised if Sam cancelled it.
3. Why the child like question ? , whipped by them down the road. Don't need to say anymore .
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #485 on: December 21, 2020, 12:48:03 PM »
Complete rubbish. If all the players Bilić signed were sold we would have more money than he spent. You may not have picked this up but Bilić was reluctant to spend most of his miserly budget on Diangana, he thought he could get him on loan later on in the window and wanted to spread the cash around. Steve Madely had a detailed article in the Athletic last week. It was Dowling and the board that pushed the transfer through on the basis it would be a good long term investment. What really goads me about your statement is how unfair it is to expect every transfer to work and to work instantly. Overall Bilić recruitment was impressive. All signings are a risk. Alex Ferguson made plenty of mistakes. It’s easy to beat the manager if your holding him out to an impossible standard. He worked a miracle to rebuild that squad and engineer promotion last season, when he was given peanuts.
Can we cut the complete rubbish comments out please? Thats aimed at all members not just you.

How about we allow others an opinion without them being shot down with petty comments like that?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 12:52:16 PM by OldburyWBA »
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baggiejohn

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #486 on: December 21, 2020, 12:50:46 PM »

Why would any half decent player want to sign for Albion and Alladyce in January?

How about £40k a week?
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #487 on: December 21, 2020, 01:40:44 PM »
So you are criticising Slaven Bilic for a net spend of what was it £30m / £35m?  Its chicken feed.  Dean Smith £140m to scrape 17th last season and their best players are the ones that cost nothing (Barkley & Grealish).

Barkley was 11m for the season according to multiple sources he definitely wasn't free mate.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 02:11:56 PM by MarkW »

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #488 on: December 21, 2020, 01:59:19 PM »
We've had bit of trying to play football - it may not have worked results wise but it's certainly better than setting up for a 0-0 at home against your local rivals in a match that we needed points in.  Sam has been quite vocal in what his approach will be - that defence will not hold out for 80 mins and then we nick a 1-0.

Just a shame it seems some of us have short memories of how painful the football was under Pulis - and at least then we had some players capable of playing that way.

So in answer to my question - nothing then..
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #489 on: December 21, 2020, 02:04:56 PM »
More defensively solid, lol.  Well we got off to a flier last night.  With Liverpool A next we may reach double figures in the goals against column 2 games in.

We have the worse defensive record In the league and Allardyce has taken 2 days of training. Rome wasn’t built in a day and honestly building Rome looks easier than teaching our lot to defend :)

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #490 on: December 21, 2020, 02:06:09 PM »
Barkley was 11m for the season according to multiple sources he deffo wasn't free mate.

I hadn't picked up on the "freebies" post, does make me smile.   We couldn't even consider a loan like Barkley or paying a player like Grealish.  If you think that the 200k + a week payed to Sturridge and the Pole were steep that will be small beans compared to the combined wages plus loan fee involved in these two.   Out of our league in more ways than one.

However, if the board aren't expecting to shell out some big wages for Sam's loans and/or freebies then what was the point of bringing him in?  Might as well have kept Slav and saved some money as we headed back to the Chump.   If for a second they are thinking he can turn this squad into a competitive PL side without stumping up for some experienced PL additions then they are even more incompetent and out of touch than we thought. 

« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 02:08:01 PM by Oldbury24 »

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #491 on: December 21, 2020, 02:25:18 PM »
Funny that, because it seemed like he a) had no idea of his best team AND b) no idea of the best system to play AND c) no idea what he was doing.

Aside from that, plus only scoring around half a goal a game and conceding a league high amount it was going swimmingly I thought.
The relevant phrase here is "it seemed like". It seemed that way to you, but it didn't seem nearly so black and white to lots of the rest of us. Just your opinion, no more, no less.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2020, 02:31:54 PM by timdon »

TheJacko2000

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #492 on: December 21, 2020, 02:32:00 PM »
The relevant phrase here is "it seemed". It seemed that way to you, but it didn't seem nearly so black and white to lots of the rest of us. Just your opinion, no more, no less.

Ah so it was all part of his masterplan? 60+ games and never settled on a starting 11 or formation. He's just a poor tactician. Lovely bloke, charismatic, but poor at his job once things start to go wrong.
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #493 on: December 21, 2020, 02:35:35 PM »
The relevant phrase here is "it seemed like". It seemed that way to you, but it didn't seem nearly so black and white to lots of the rest of us. Just your opinion, no more, no less.

No it seemed that way to me aswell. Purely because that’s what I was viewing
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Fritzl Palace

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #494 on: December 21, 2020, 02:51:43 PM »
Seemed that way to me also...and I was a massive Bilic fan and still am.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #495 on: December 21, 2020, 02:55:20 PM »
Bilic being a poor tactician was evident in Chelsea H and Man City A also?

What are these magic tactics Allardyce is bringing in?

Looks likely we'll concede a hatful to Liverpool, will definitely concede to Leeds, will concede at Wolves and WHU.  Debatable whether we'll achieve a clean sheet at home to Arsenal.

Fritzl Palace

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #496 on: December 21, 2020, 02:57:28 PM »
Bilic being a poor tactician was evident in Chelsea H and Man City A also?

What are these magic tactics Allardyce is bringing in?

Looks likely we'll concede a hatful to Liverpool, will definitely concede to Leeds, will concede at Wolves and WHU.  Debatable whether we'll achieve a clean sheet at home to Arsenal.

I am not sure what outcome you are looking to achieve here?

Citing the Chelsea game where we gave up a 3 goal lead is hardly a shining example of tactical mastery. You would have been better off citing the Man United game where we really should have won it.

I am less concerned with our performances against the top sides, more concerned with how poor we have been against the sides around us.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #497 on: December 21, 2020, 03:01:02 PM »
Alot of the discussion is focussing on the lack of quality in certain players, which is fair enough, but we lost last night because we were constantly outnumbered in midfield and at their end of the pitch.  We couldn't put a string of passes together for 10 seconds because Villa had the numbers in midfield, which made it very difficult to get around them. When Villa had the ball they had all the time in the world and 6 or 7 options to pass to, because all our players were stuck back around our box. I don't care which players you choose, de Bruyne, Hazard, any team will struggle if they haven't got players to support them going forward. Not helped of course by going down to 10 men.
I can't recall Gibbs or Furlong getting over the half way line for example.

I can see SA thought it worked v Man City,  but being at home and going behind after 4 minutes, the game plan needed to change before the last 10 minutes of the game.
 
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #498 on: December 21, 2020, 03:01:57 PM »
Bilic being a poor tactician was evident in Chelsea H and Man City A also?

What are these magic tactics Allardyce is bringing in?

Looks likely we'll concede a hatful to Liverpool, will definitely concede to Leeds, will concede at Wolves and WHU.  Debatable whether we'll achieve a clean sheet at home to Arsenal.

This Chelsea game. They gifted us a 3 goal lead (plus good finishing by Robinson) and we never looked like hanging on to the 3 points. Hardly a tactical masterclass.

City they all put a shift in, but it would have been a regulation win if not for Johnstone.

I think your crystal ball has clouded over mate. 🔮
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #499 on: December 21, 2020, 04:29:40 PM »
This Chelsea game. They gifted us a 3 goal lead (plus good finishing by Robinson) and we never looked like hanging on to the 3 points. Hardly a tactical masterclass.

City they all put a shift in, but it would have been a regulation win if not for Johnstone.

I think your crystal ball has clouded over mate. 🔮

Ah in praise of Johnstone now, that same keeper you've lambasted for months, how ironic.  Awful you couldn't give Bilic any credit for Man City A. 

Last night was pitiful.  But in defence of Allardyce we were again done over by VAR, as I'm one of the few to stand up and tell it like it is.

How is this Allardyce tactical masterclass going to work right now with these players?  He's going to do what exactly that Bilic couldn't?