Author Topic: Sam Allardyce  (Read 102062 times)

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GREGMT

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #450 on: December 21, 2020, 08:51:07 AM »
I wouldn't use that as a stick to beat Slaven with.  His funds were very limited and he used the money as best as he could, it simply wasn't a big enough outlay.

Under Bilic we kept the ball well enough whereby our possession was hovering close to the 50% mark,  impressive with Sawyers and Livermore.

Last night was alarming, only 35% and 1 shot.  I'll give SA a bit of slack as we had 10 men, but the writing was on the wall, Villa were dictating before Livermore's red.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #451 on: December 21, 2020, 08:52:30 AM »
Yes and that drum has been repeatedly beaten all season.

The failure to sign a defensive midfielder was a mistake - why Bilic gave priority to a weak fancy footballer is beyond me.

The midfield is dysfunctional and it will not suit Allardyce. I’m not sure there are easy fixes out there who can improve that area given what little money we have available.
Firmly believe Allardyce wouldn't have taken the job without a decent amount of money to use , don't get me started on Bilic's blindness to the midfield issues.
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #452 on: December 21, 2020, 08:56:58 AM »
Just read Sams comments. Sounds like hes aiming to move the armband off Livermore permanently. Fantastic news. The only thing that keeps him in the team most the time.
Absolutely, the only time you notice him is when he’s giving the ball away or collecting cards.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #453 on: December 21, 2020, 08:57:07 AM »
I wouldn't use that as a stick to beat Slaven with.  His funds were very limited and he used the money as best as he could, it simply wasn't a big enough outlay.

Under Bilic we kept the ball well enough whereby our possession was hovering close to the 50% mark,  impressive with Sawyers and Livermore.

Last night was alarming, only 35% and 1 shot.  I'll give SA a bit of slack as we had 10 men, but the writing was on the wall, Villa were dictating before Livermore's red.
Sorry but that ones on Bilic , screamed until he got Krov in who others nothing Pereira / Gallagher / even Sawyers don't . I'd imagine as its 2nd time around we paid a loan fee or most of his wages , utter madness when he couldn't hold a place down last season and as you say Livermore/Sawyers stood out like a sore thumb as a issue . Madness.
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #454 on: December 21, 2020, 08:58:01 AM »
I wouldn't use that as a stick to beat Slaven with.  His funds were very limited and he used the money as best as he could, it simply wasn't a big enough outlay.

Under Bilic we kept the ball well enough whereby our possession was hovering close to the 50% mark,  impressive with Sawyers and Livermore.

Last night was alarming, only 35% and 1 shot.  I'll give SA a bit of slack as we had 10 men, but the writing was on the wall, Villa were dictating before Livermore's red.

The Villa have spent over £200m since promotion, they should be dictating, we are a side full of Championship players, and average Championship players at that in the likes of Furlong, Sawyers, Livermore, Phillips, Grant and Robinson.

The start of the game looked like what it was, a team put together on a shoe string vs a team funded by billionaire owners happy to put their hands into their pockets. Money talks.

Sam has had two days with this side, he is hardly going to work the oracle overnight, it will be a while before we see his ideas being implemented but some of the comments in here are laughable, it is as if we were playing like Brazil all season before Slav went. Wise up chaps, it was awful before last night and we were lucky to have won the one game we did win.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #455 on: December 21, 2020, 09:01:35 AM »
I wouldn't use that as a stick to beat Slaven with.  His funds were very limited and he used the money as best as he could, it simply wasn't a big enough outlay.

Under Bilic we kept the ball well enough whereby our possession was hovering close to the 50% mark,  impressive with Sawyers and Livermore.

Last night was alarming, only 35% and 1 shot.  I'll give SA a bit of slack as we had 10 men, but the writing was on the wall, Villa were dictating before Livermore's red.

He did indeed have limited funds but as to whether he used the money as best he could I'm not so sure. He was hell bent on getting the players he had last season but then changed the formation to one which doesn't suit those players (Diangana and Pereira especially). If he was determined to change the formation why not get players in that can play that way? Also did we really need Krovinovic when a Dm was needed much more?
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #456 on: December 21, 2020, 09:22:44 AM »
Agree with some previous comments.  Bilic did not have the required money, but conversely he still preferred non defensive midfielders in front of the defense.  These guys are not Modric, they just can't do it!

I think Allardyce reacted to the performance correctly.  He took responsibility for the sending off (saying it was on his watch and that he had told the players at the very least to avoid reckless challenges).  They did not listen and he sounded correctly annoyed and determined to ensure it never happens again. Bye Bye Jake.

I really don't think Allardyce can be heavily criticized after one game.

 

GREGMT

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #457 on: December 21, 2020, 09:45:04 AM »
Sorry but that ones on Bilic , screamed until he got Krov in who others nothing Pereira / Gallagher / even Sawyers don't . I'd imagine as its 2nd time around we paid a loan fee or most of his wages , utter madness when he couldn't hold a place down last season and as you say Livermore/Sawyers stood out like a sore thumb as a issue . Madness.

So you are criticising Slaven Bilic for a net spend of what was it £30m / £35m?  Its chicken feed.  Dean Smith £140m to scrape 17th last season and their best players are the ones that cost nothing (Barkley & Grealish).

Point is we should've been out of the relegation zone at the time SB was sacked, with the injustice of VAR.  Were you expecting miracles?

The best thing Allardyce can do is find the next Jay Jay Okocha, link him with Pereira, play passing football, then I'll be right behind him. 

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #458 on: December 21, 2020, 09:49:43 AM »
So you are criticising Slaven Bilic for a net spend of what was it £30m / £35m?  Its chicken feed.  Dean Smith £140m to scrape 17th last season and their best players are the ones that cost nothing (Barkley & Grealish).

Point is we should've been out of the relegation zone at the time SB was sacked, with the injustice of VAR.  Were you expecting miracles?

The best thing Allardyce can do is find the next Jay Jay Okocha, link him with Pereira, play passing football, then I'll be right behind him.

no one is denying that Bilic had very limited funds what you don't seem to see is that he didn't spend the money available in the smartest way, he bought players that don't suit the formation he then chose to play.

Pretty sure Barkley will have cost a loan fee and wages, so not 'nothing'.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #459 on: December 21, 2020, 09:55:08 AM »
I love this board and the people on it including those i disagree on the regular with but our fans are a weird bunch. I think its the knock on effects of Jeremy Peace manipulation/reign. I've never met supporters from any other club who want their club to fail as much as ours just so they can see tippy tappy triangle, nothing football.

Mention changing squad and tactics getting results etc and it's like you've fiddled kids. Baffled.

Let's all support the club AND Sam whilst he's here.

Just like you did the previous manager ?!!  Thats weird !
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #460 on: December 21, 2020, 09:56:33 AM »
Agree with some previous comments.  Bilic did not have the required money, but conversely he still preferred non defensive midfielders in front of the defense.  These guys are not Modric, they just can't do it!

I think Allardyce reacted to the performance correctly.  He took responsibility for the sending off (saying it was on his watch and that he had told the players at the very least to avoid reckless challenges).  They did not listen and he sounded correctly annoyed and determined to ensure it never happens again. Bye Bye Jake.

I really don't think Allardyce can be heavily criticized after one game.
sensible post mate we have been crying out for defensive midfielder for most of Slaven's tenure and nothing materialised, not blaming Bilic who clearly had other positions to priorities. Budget or lack of one is a major problem but also player recruitment has to be spot on if funds are tight. Dowling failed to help coach in that department and failed club in not identifying areas on pitch that needed strengthing. We are not a well run club we jump from crisis to crisis and have so since and probably before I've  been watching the Albion and will in the future.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #461 on: December 21, 2020, 10:01:19 AM »
The issue for me is this, Bilic built a physically weak team based on possession rather than hard work. This worked, to a point, in the Championship but was drastically poor in the Prem. Sam will have to turn this on it's head to build a team that suits his style but, by then, it will be too late and we will be relegated and therefore go into the Championship with a team built around defence and drill. If Sam then parts company and we try another younger more dynamic coach, he will again have a team that doesn't suit and we'll be starting all over again.

It's mad to keep dramatically changing the style, as we don't have the funds for widespread changes, therefore end up with square pegs in round holes.

I have no desire to stay in this league, under the current regime, as the odds are stacked too highly against us. We should have took the money, accepted relegation (which is inevitable anyway it seems) and built something longer term.

Not saying we should have kept Bilic but we may as well have tried someone who's style would have matched the players we have.

I feel for Allardyce as he must have looked at that shower last night and thought, there's not one of them who I would pick given a blank sheet.

We are like a hamster on a wheel who falls off and, when he gets back on, it's going the other way!

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #462 on: December 21, 2020, 10:14:59 AM »
Reminds me of the Mowbray era in many ways plenty of “artists” not enough “soldiers”. That got sorted out with Yacob and co.
A team built properly with balance will do better in my view to get promoted again.
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #463 on: December 21, 2020, 10:24:02 AM »
Remind me - what has been at all exciting this season?

We've had bit of trying to play football - it may not have worked results wise but it's certainly better than setting up for a 0-0 at home against your local rivals in a match that we needed points in.  Sam has been quite vocal in what his approach will be - that defence will not hold out for 80 mins and then we nick a 1-0.

Just a shame it seems some of us have short memories of how painful the football was under Pulis - and at least then we had some players capable of playing that way.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #464 on: December 21, 2020, 10:31:05 AM »
We were incredibly poor last night and offered no threat whatsoever, however, much as I don’t like Big Sam, I don’t blame him for last night. The final score line probably reflected the game. His subs did change things negatively, but in some ways I agreed with what he did. He changed the formation to try and nick something and the gamble backfired, but at least he tried it. I am unconvinced by his appointment but I will cut him some slack and would love him to prove me wrong in initially not wanting him.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #465 on: December 21, 2020, 10:36:01 AM »
sensible post mate we have been crying out for defensive midfielder for most of Slaven's tenure and nothing materialised, not blaming Bilic who clearly had other positions to priorities. Budget or lack of one is a major problem but also player recruitment has to be spot on if funds are tight. Dowling failed to help coach in that department and failed club in not identifying areas on pitch that needed strengthing. We are not a well run club we jump from crisis to crisis and have so since and probably before I've  been watching the Albion and will in the future.

Allardyce will be demanding, and I mean demanding at minimum a big man up top, a holding/defensive midfielder and a defensively solid right back.  It's realistic as  they don't have to be top quality players, at the moment there is nobody in the squad that can do these roles at all.   I would also expect him to be thumbing his little black loans book for another CB.

Last night he must have marked the cards of Sawyers, Livermore, Furlong (as much as I like him he was exposed for the goal last night) and although Phillips played ok he cant seem to run more than 30 yards without getting all out of puff, which is pointless if we set up to counter attack. 

Without those additions his appointment was utterly pointless.   Up top, well if he can build a solid foundation (god knows how, but if...) then combinations of Grady, Grant, Perreira, Robinson and maybe even Edwards just need to be told to get on their bike and play without fear.   The amount of times that Grady beat his man first time but then bottled it and cut back was sad to see - his confidence shot because he has realised most PL defenders can match him for pace.  Good coaching can help him understand what he needs to do for success at this level.  Lets hope Allardyce's team are up to it as he is talented but last night looked like a player plucked from the under 15's.

We all knew what the weakness's in the squad were and they have come home to roost.   The owners had lost faith in Slav's ability to both create a wining team but also on transfers which in the first year with the likes of Grady and Perreira was a shining light.   Allardyce will not be given money to buy players but they will release money to fund wages on his choices rather than Dowling's.   It's going to be interesting what he can find. 








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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #466 on: December 21, 2020, 10:52:46 AM »
no one is denying that Bilic had very limited funds what you don't seem to see is that he didn't spend the money available in the smartest way, he bought players that don't suit the formation he then chose to play.

Pretty sure Barkley will have cost a loan fee and wages, so not 'nothing'.

£35m is not a Premier League budget is it? And you expect us to avoid the bottom 3,its laughable.  I'll remind you Bilic acquired Pereira for 9.5m which is a snip.

So Allardyce is renowned for clean sheets and producing dire football to nick results.  He has to do this WITHIN THE NEXT Month otherwise we could be down anyway and the transfer budget affected.

The first requirement is to play Field with Gallagher, Pereira further forward, drop Grant for Robinson.  Basically improve the energy and pace in the team.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #467 on: December 21, 2020, 11:01:34 AM »
£35m is not a Premier League budget is it? And you expect us to avoid the bottom 3,its laughable.  I'll remind you Bilic acquired Pereira for 9.5m which is a snip.

So Allardyce is renowned for clean sheets and producing dire football to nick results.  He has to do this WITHIN THE NEXT Month otherwise we could be down anyway and the transfer budget affected.

The first requirement is to play Field with Gallagher, Pereira further forward, drop Grant for Robinson.  Basically improve the energy and pace in the team.


I said that whilst Bilic had limited funds he didn't spend them wisely. Yes he got Periera in for 9.5M but he then chose to play him predominantly in a position that didn't suit him.

What you suggest as first requirements are things that Bilic should have done but didn't.

We need to be tighter at the back and we need to play in a different way to have any chance of staying in this league (and then the owner being able to sell up).
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #468 on: December 21, 2020, 11:13:25 AM »
So you are criticising Slaven Bilic for a net spend of what was it £30m / £35m?  Its chicken feed.  Dean Smith £140m to scrape 17th last season and their best players are the ones that cost nothing (Barkley & Grealish).

Point is we should've been out of the relegation zone at the time SB was sacked, with the injustice of VAR.  Were you expecting miracles?

The best thing Allardyce can do is find the next Jay Jay Okocha, link him with Pereira, play passing football, then I'll be right behind him.
Where did i say that ? , we all knew it would be limited funds . We all knew he'd need a defensive midfielder , Bilic chose to waste a decent wage on somebody who is neither defensive or particulary good enough attacking .
Simply that wage was needed elsewhere not on a squad filler , thats the point I and a few others have made.
 
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #469 on: December 21, 2020, 11:17:15 AM »

I said that whilst Bilic had limited funds he didn't spend them wisely. Yes he got Periera in for 9.5M but he then chose to play him predominantly in a position that didn't suit him.

What you suggest as first requirements are things that Bilic should have done but didn't.

We need to be tighter at the back and we need to play in a different way to have any chance of staying in this league (and then the owner being able to sell up).


Some points, Field has been injured for several weeks.  The only other option to try was Harper and he is as lazy as Sawyers. 

Pereira is affected by a distinct lack of quality around him.

We need to be tighter in the midfield and control games more.  The back 4 are the best options currently but we still have Townshend, Ivanovic, Bartley as back up.  Unless we can sign a world class centre half there is no point.

Play in a different way like what?  Long ball with Pereira watching the ball sail over his head?

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #470 on: December 21, 2020, 11:20:46 AM »
Where did i say that ? , we all knew it would be limited funds . We all knew he'd need a defensive midfielder , Bilic chose to waste a decent wage on somebody who is neither defensive or particulary good enough attacking .
Simply that wage was needed elsewhere not on a squad filler , thats the point I and a few others have made.

Why not credit Bilic with signing the excellent Gallagher?

I honestly don't know what you expect for £35m outlay, talk about unrealistic.

Satisfied with last night's showing?

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #471 on: December 21, 2020, 11:26:28 AM »
Cards on the table. Not a huge fan of Sam (although he does have a decent record with teams our size) and liked Bilic but Sam has been here for 3 days!!
Our best performance of season was City away which was backs to the wall. I liked Slav and thought we would be more attacking in the prem and try and take the game to teams but this season has hardly been glorious or swashbuckling under Slav. We have had a few spells Chelsea, Brighton, Everton but no game have we been great. Also I think the squad loved Blilc but the love of the Manager is one the great false narratives in football. We have had previous managers who people loved but the results were rubbish. We have had managers who the players didn’t necessarily like but their methods got results. By February we will know where we are.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #472 on: December 21, 2020, 11:29:48 AM »
I said that whilst Bilic had limited funds he didn't spend them wisely.

Complete rubbish. If all the players Bilić signed were sold we would have more money than he spent. You may not have picked this up but Bilić was reluctant to spend most of his miserly budget on Diangana, he thought he could get him on loan later on in the window and wanted to spread the cash around. Steve Madely had a detailed article in the Athletic last week. It was Dowling and the board that pushed the transfer through on the basis it would be a good long term investment. What really goads me about your statement is how unfair it is to expect every transfer to work and to work instantly. Overall Bilić recruitment was impressive. All signings are a risk. Alex Ferguson made plenty of mistakes. It’s easy to beat the manager if your holding him out to an impossible standard. He worked a miracle to rebuild that squad and engineer promotion last season, when he was given peanuts.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #473 on: December 21, 2020, 11:30:25 AM »
Some points, Field has been injured for several weeks.  The only other option to try was Harper and he is as lazy as Sawyers. 

Pereira is affected by a distinct lack of quality around him.

We need to be tighter in the midfield and control games more.  The back 4 are the best options currently but we still have Townshend, Ivanovic, Bartley as back up.  Unless we can sign a world class centre half there is no point.

Play in a different way like what?  Long ball with Pereira watching the ball sail over his head?

Playing in a different way such as being tighter at the back (as I've said about 3 times), using players in the positions they are best suited to.

We need a proper Dm and a proper centre forward that can hold up the ball and bring in players like Grant, Robinson, Diangana.
With a proper Dm we can then play through midfield with Gallagher being box to box and Periera being the 10.

If the balls are sailing over Pereiras head them maybe the centre forward we need can then hold up play long enough for Pereira to join in?




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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #474 on: December 21, 2020, 11:33:17 AM »
Complete rubbish. If all the players Bilić signed were sold we would have more money than he spent. You may not have picked this up but Bilić was reluctant to spend most of his miserly budget on Diangana, he thought he could get him on loan later on in the window and wanted to spread the cash around. Steve Madely had a detailed article in the Athletic last week. It was Dowling and the board that pushed the transfer through on the basis it would be a good long term investment. What really goads me about your statement is how unfair it is to expect every transfer to work and to work instantly. Overall Bilić recruitment was impressive. All signings are a risk. Alex Ferguson made plenty of mistakes. It’s easy to beat the manager if your holding him out to an impossible standard. He worked a miracle to rebuild that squad and engineer promotion last season, when he was given peanuts.
Not complete rubbish at all. I wasn't talking about the amount of money spent but how having brought players in he didn't play a formation that suited them.
I don't expect every transfer to work out and never said I did but I would expect the manager to play a formation that at least played to players strengths.
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