[TheJacko2000]

Are we to assume then that during your recent absence you failed to keep the appointment to see your optician?

They've just shown him clatter straight into his leg nowhere near the ball. He'd already been given a freekick by the way for a foul on him by the other Villa player.

[boinging_along]

I beg to differ on that Jacko, it was robust but he won the ball. I think a yellow was about right just to calm him down.

Welcome back by the way.

He was off the ground and immediately that puts you in danger of a red.  I can see what he was trying to do - it wasn't a horror challenge, he's jumped across and tried to shield the ball from Grealish and just caught him slightly.  I'm not sure VAR should have changed it to a red though - it wasn't a clear and obvious error from the ref for me.

Seeing as it was given I've no idea why the Villa player wasn't then also sent off.  That's the most annoying part - that the rules aren't being applied evenly.

[GREGMT]

No noise on here.  Incredible what people will tolerate.

Cost us nothing tonight in points as AV were far better. 

Previously it’s been shocking. 

Albion fans are so passive.

[gazberg]

TBF mate we all went mad in the match day section.

[boinging_along]

And we'd needed VAR to send off about 3 Villa players to have stood a chance.

[Singhwba]

The ref on BT after the game said - VAR isnt there to make a correct decision but to makesure the ref doesnt make a mistake. Rules need to be changed, make it more like rugby or even cricket where the on field decision stays. Something needs to be amended cause its ruining the sport we all love.

[Westie]

VAR is just one thing that is ruining the game we loved. I’ve just watched MOTD2 and there’s so much cheating going it’s ridiculous. There are too many horrible players whose attitude stinks and clubs that don’t give a damn about identity or tradition. We have incompetent referees and a PC attitude that is spoiling not only football but other sports and aspects of life. The football coverage on tv is now terrible, MOTD2 tonight, Dion Dublin, what a complete ******* idiot.

[TAFKATMNo1Fan]

VAR is just one thing that is ruining the game we loved. I’ve just watched MOTD2 and there’s so much cheating going it’s ridiculous. There are too many horrible players whose attitude stinks and clubs that don’t give a damn about identity or tradition. We have incompetent referees and a PC attitude that is spoiling not only football but other sports and aspects of life. The football coverage on tv is now terrible, MOTD2 tonight, Dion Dublin, what a complete ******* idiot.

Yeah he should stick to homes under the hammer

[Aussie Baggie]

He was nowhere near the ball.

Mate, if you watch it again, his first contact is with the ball. But it was a lunge and dangerous and it was after he won the ball that he came into contact with Grealish.  So I do agree with the red card. But to say he was nowhere near the ball is not right IMO.

I haven't seen the Hause one as the highlights do not show it at all. They show Livermore's alright but not Hause.
Is it tin foil hat stuff or have the officials told the TV guys not to show it as it will not put them in a good light?

[mulliganstired]

Livermore left his studs up for a fraction of a second, not much real force, but it was deliberate and about half way between a yellow and a red.  He didn't complain too much did he?

[Oldbury24]

No noise on here.  Incredible what people will tolerate.

Cost us nothing tonight in points as AV were far better. 

Previously it’s been shocking. 

Albion fans are so passive.

I hate VAR with a passion.  If every decision had gone our way I'd still hate VAR.  But they haven't so I can really really hate it!

It's like having some horrible snitch over seeing the game, telling tails on people and making sure nobody has too much fun!  Don't you dare celebrate that goal until I say so! 

It's supposed to make the game fairer, but does ANYONE else think that a Liverpool or Man United player would have been called back and sent off for that?

I know we're not supposed to be all sweary on here but **** VAR as far as i'm concerned.  I'm not in the "would rather go down" camp but there are many things about the PL I wont miss, but top of the pops will be VAR.

[paulosull]

Yeah he should stick to homes under the hammer

ruined that show as well

[paulosull]

I hate VAR with a passion.  If every decision had gone our way I'd still hate VAR.  But they haven't so I can really really hate it!

It's like having some horrible snitch over seeing the game, telling tails on people and making sure nobody has too much fun!  Don't you dare celebrate that goal until I say so! 

It's supposed to make the game fairer, but does ANYONE else think that a Liverpool or Man United player would have been called back and sent off for that?

I know we're not supposed to be all sweary on here but **** VAR as far as i'm concerned.  I'm not in the "would rather go down" camp and there are many things about the PL I wont miss, but top of the pops will be VAR.

football was all about spontaneity goals, offsides and officials and their decisions. Now you don't know if you should celebrate for a goal, call for offside or moan at ref for not giving or giving foul. Var is used in prem clearly in a biased manner just like ref's have officiated all games in top flight since its inception.

[wodenson46]

football was all about spontaneity goals, offsides and officials and their decisions. Now you don't know if you should celebrate for a goal, call for offside or moan at ref for not giving or giving foul. Var is used in prem clearly in a biased manner just like ref's have officiated all games in top flight since its inception.

Fully agree Paulosull. It is the same referees.

We should not have expected any different or ANY fair or objective, officiating. The var's who have intervened after an in-game decision and virtually ordered the sending off of our players against the true judgement of the referee in charge of the game, or rescinded on-field decisions originally given in our favour by the on-field official have all, I believe, got some previous form against us. At least two of these changes have been very marginal, or have not taken into account significant factors leading up to the decisions. Until the incumbents I am thinking of are removed from all lists then the cheating will remain.

It is my belief  that these guys are as big if not bigger cheats than the Grealish, school of diving and screaming fraternity that is killing football and turning it into something akin to the most mind numbing pastime of basket (case) ball with feet. The money (sky Murdoch etc) are trying to turn it into a soap opera where the central storyline is enhanced by controversy and disaster, but all comes good in the end. At least for certain players and certain clubs it does. 

Sorry folks Ill get down off me high horse now, go back to me dinosaur pit and dream of the late fifties and early sixties when football was a sport played by and for working class men, and was all the better for it. Except for certain London clubs and their brown paper envelopes and paid for cars, and holidays in the sun.........

[paulosull]

Fully agree Paulosull. It is the same referees.

We should not have expected any different or ANY fair or objective, officiating. The var's who have intervened after an in-game decision and virtually ordered the sending off of our players against the true judgement of the referee in charge of the game, or rescinded on-field decisions originally given in our favour by the on-field official have all, I believe, got some previous form against us. At least two of these changes have been very marginal, or have not taken into account significant factors leading up to the decisions. Until the incumbents I am thinking of are removed from all lists then the cheating will remain.

It is my belief  that these guys are as big if not bigger cheats than the Grealish, school of diving and screaming fraternity that is killing football and turning it into something akin to the most mind numbing pastime of basket (case) ball with feet. The money (sky Murdoch etc) are trying to turn it into a soap opera where the central storyline is enhanced by controversy and disaster, but all comes good in the end. At least for certain players and certain clubs it does. 

Sorry folks Ill get down off me high horse now, go back to me dinosaur pit and dream of the late fifties and early sixties when football was a sport played by and for working class men, and was all the better for it. Except for certain London clubs and their brown paper envelopes and paid for cars, and holidays in the sun.........

and nobody bloody new the ref's name, enjoy your Christmas mate 

[wodenson46]

Cheers mate, All the best to you and yours.
Think Darren England was the var. same bloke who gave the penalty against Cipre for the blatant dive in the cup game, and so it goes on.

[GREGMT]

Having watched the re-run of MOTD 2, I. made these observations:

1) Livermore hasn't actually touched Greliash, the twonk has just dived.  He actually took the ball.  So you are literally sending him off for studs up.
2) Hause's tackle was appalling, a leg breaker, its so clearly a red card. A worse challenge than Livermore's.
3) Grealish has dived again for the penalty, absolutely no contact at all from Ajayi.
4) No arguments if Watkins goal had of stood.

So you could make a case for every decision being wrong once again.

A Yellow for Livermore and Red for Hause and we might just have sneaked a draw.

[OhBilics]

Having watched the re-run of MOTD 2

I was going to, decided not to torture myself.

[wodenson46]

and nobody bloody new the ref's name, enjoy your Christmas mate 

Yep them was the days when he was just a bloke in black with a whistle an d made good honest mistakes.

[baggie53]

Yep them was the days when he was just a bloke in black with a whistle an d made good honest mistakes.

And it was rare to see someone booked (no cards), and headline news if someone was sent off

[MarkW]

Having seen the highlights, I'm bewildered, to put it mildly.

Livermore's challenge is a red for me. It's a lunge, it endangers the opposition, and he wasn't in control. As I posted on page 5, that means it's a red. No complaints.

The Hause incident though. His studs go into Diangana's ankle/shin. He clearly endangered Diangana,, and I can't believe it wasn't a red. That said, if it's only a yellow, play the advantage. We had one shot on target all game, and the one time we get a 2v1, the ref brings play back. It's all ifs and maybes, but if play was allowed to go on, then we might have scored and they might have got a red too.

I'm not one to subscribe to some sort of conspiracy - I am a big believer in Hanlon's razor "That which can be attributed to incompetence should not be attributed to malice" - but I always thought Atkinson was one of the better refs, and in that five seconds he's made two errors (should be a red, if only a yellow, play advantage).

[Aussie Baggie]

I'm not in the UK obviously so I am not privy to the sports shows that are on TV discussing the game but are there any TV personalities with the gumption to actually come out and say the VAR is biased?

Seems to be a lot of discussion from fans from all clubs not just ours, but was just wondering if media outlets have picked up on this and are asking questions of the FA in relation to VAR?

[alex1]

I hope the club is keeping a note of VAR assistants and decisions going against us. I believe this is the second time Darren England has ruled against us this season. I think we'd be quite entitled to query with the PL certain VAR assistants being appointed for our games, if their track record looks very lopsided.

[Hunnington Baggie]

I hope the club is keeping a note of VAR assistants and decisions going against us. I believe this is the second time Darren England has ruled against us this season. I think we'd be quite entitled to query with the PL certain VAR assistants being appointed for our games, if their track record looks very lopsided.

if we keep that up, we’ll run out if officials by season’s end!

[skyclad99]

Initially I was for VAR. I liked the idea that the ref could ask for a review if he was unsure about something, but this idea that someone miles away is reviewing absolutely everything not only slows the game but undermines the ref as well. Livermore's challenge was initially given as yellow [about right in my opinion] but as soon as you hear that the ref has been called over to review the footage, it is only gong one way.
I had no issue with the Watkins goal, but after much deliberation his little finger was deemed as being offside. I do not recall any protests from us.
Like everyone else, I too an bemused by the Hause decision compared to Livermore. Even the ref trying to explain it on Sunday was having difficulty so that just goes to show what a cake and *** VAR is.
So I am for VAR if they only review something when asked by the ref. It could be as in cricket where each team has two reviews, but this idea that absolutely everything is analysed is ruining the game for me.