Author Topic: 19 Oct 2020 Albion 0 Burnley 0  (Read 9910 times)

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Baggies

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #300 on: October 19, 2020, 11:19:11 PM »
Ivanovich and Townsend we’re outnumbered 3 v 2 as Hegazi had gone walkies. He needed to stay alongside his centre back partner.  Just a basic bit of decision making and concentration. His general defending when attacking the ball was fine.

https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCMOTD/status/1318248392062062592

Well, that was the picture of Wood heading the ball onto the crossbar, with Furlong and Ivanovic either side of him.

If you feel Hegazi should havr picked him up, i guess we will have to agree to disagree.
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baggie82

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #301 on: October 19, 2020, 11:37:48 PM »
https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCMOTD/status/1318248392062062592

Well, that was the picture of Wood heading the ball onto the crossbar, with Furlong and Ivanovic either side of him.

If you feel Hegazi should havr picked him up, i guess we will have to agree to disagree.

It’s not that Hegazi should have picked him up, although he was supposedly the left sided centre back. It’s that he should have been defending the box alongside Ivanović leaving either full back to tuck in when the ball was delivered from the other side. So when O’Neil was lining up a cross from the left it’s down to Furlong and/or the midfield to close him down, what we can’t afford is Hegazi charging out of position and leaving his fellow centre back and full back alone in the box. What your photo doesn’t show is that Burnley have their winger attacking the back post as well so our two defenders left are outnumbered, preciously because Hegazi went walkies not once but twice. Note Ivanović never did that as it’s madness. Generally I was pleased with Hegazi tonight but he almost cost us and has to learn to get the basics right over 90 minutes.

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #302 on: October 19, 2020, 11:39:55 PM »
Crossing from near the halfway line is usually harmless for a good organised defence anyway. The most dangerous crosses are delivered from near the byline, but alot of backs never make it that far as they lack pace. That's the case with O'Shea. Gibbs gets around his back more often than Townsend, though Townsend didn't play badly tonight by his standards.

I thought Townsend was excellent.

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #303 on: October 19, 2020, 11:48:01 PM »
I thought Townsend was excellent.
That's pushing it a bit. He's a decent defender but he is not that tall and therefore easily beaten in the air.  Also, he doesn't get around the outside of his opposite number enough, so most of his crosses are not that dangerous. 
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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #304 on: October 20, 2020, 12:18:40 AM »
In context of our season, a decent performance and ok result. Feels like Bilic played something like his first XI, in his preferred shape. Certainly an improvement and it feels like we can build on this.

However I can't help but look at the season as a whole and feel concerned longer term. Burnley are not in a good place currently and whilst we may have had more of the play, they had the best chances. Full backs can both be improved upon, as can the keeper and the midfield too and I'm not sure we have the personnel in the squad currently to do this.

Still, onwards and upwards, let's hopenwe can get a win and the momentum carry us through a purple patch. There is quality at the top end of the pitch although they weren't at their best today.

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #305 on: October 20, 2020, 02:38:45 AM »
He'll certainly be left wondering what he's done to deserve dropping after he comes in with Ivanovic and we keep our 1st clean sheet...

against a team that's BELOW us!
Hegazi isn't the answer, got away with a few last night
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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #306 on: October 20, 2020, 05:30:30 AM »
Crossing from near the halfway line is usually harmless for a good organised defence anyway. The most dangerous crosses are delivered from near the byline, but alot of backs never make it that far as they lack pace. That's the case with O'Shea. Gibbs gets around his back more often than Townsend, though Townsend didn't play badly tonight by his standards.
[/b][/u]
What a disparaging comment about a player who had a good game , did absolutely nowt wrong.Keeps his place for me.
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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #307 on: October 20, 2020, 06:37:47 AM »
[/b][/u]
What a disparaging comment about a player who had a good game , did absolutely nowt wrong.Keeps his place for me.

I thought Townsend had a good game, world's of a cross which we know he has in his locker.
Looks to have bulked up a bit, he strikes me as someone who really wants to learn and improve.
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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #308 on: October 20, 2020, 07:29:57 AM »
for me that was painful to watch. these are the games we should be doing better at home
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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #309 on: October 20, 2020, 08:15:33 AM »
Found the bench strange. Did we really need Bartley ,Ajayi and o'Shea all on the bench? I would have thought Field could have covered for LB and either Austin or Edward's may have given us more options attacking wise
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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #310 on: October 20, 2020, 08:27:52 AM »
for me that was painful to watch. these are the games we should be doing better at home

A bit harsh given that for many it was their first time together. It will take a few games to jel but I anticipate steadily improving performances over the next few games if Slav sticks with this line up.

Quite a few positives for me last night, mainly concerning the new players, but special mention for the much maligned Sam Johnstone, who won us that point with two very good saves - one point blank.
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Baggies

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #311 on: October 20, 2020, 09:15:32 AM »
It’s not that Hegazi should have picked him up, although he was supposedly the left sided centre back. It’s that he should have been defending the box alongside Ivanović leaving either full back to tuck in when the ball was delivered from the other side. So when O’Neil was lining up a cross from the left it’s down to Furlong and/or the midfield to close him down, what we can’t afford is Hegazi charging out of position and leaving his fellow centre back and full back alone in the box. What your photo doesn’t show is that Burnley have their winger attacking the back post as well so our two defenders left are outnumbered, preciously because Hegazi went walkies not once but twice. Note Ivanović never did that as it’s madness. Generally I was pleased with Hegazi tonight but he almost cost us and has to learn to get the basics right over 90 minutes.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5H0GwygVR2Y

1:56 in.

Long ball by Burnley, Hegazi follows the man running through (Gudmundson I think), turns him away from goal, before Gudmundson lays it off for a cross to thr back post.

Ivanovic is caught in two minds while Furlong doesn't react at all.

That just isn't on Hegazi.
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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #312 on: October 20, 2020, 09:22:16 AM »
Found the bench strange. Did we really need Bartley ,Ajayi and o'Shea all on the bench? I would have thought Field could have covered for LB and either Austin or Edward's may have given us more options attacking wise

Agree with this, suggests to me that the 3 at the back isn't dead in Bilic's eyes.

MarkW

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #313 on: October 20, 2020, 09:37:48 AM »
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5H0GwygVR2Y

1:56 in.

Long ball by Burnley, Hegazi follows the man running through (Gudmundson I think), turns him away from goal, before Gudmundson lays it off for a cross to thr back post.

Ivanovic is caught in two minds while Furlong doesn't react at all.

That just isn't on Hegazi.

Not seen the highlights so thank you for that.

Not sure how you can blame Hegazi - Livermore tries to slot in but turns his back and runs away from the cross, and Furlong isn't covering, leaving Ivanovic to pick up two men.

If Hegazi didn't cover, Gudmonson has a clean route through to goal. It's a 2v1 in the middle that no-one helps Ivanovic with that is the problem.

Edit: At 2:16 you could argue that after Hegazi shepherds the player away from the box, he should move back into the box, as we have Townsend vs....Barnes? In the centre. Wood makes a late run that no-one tracks from midfield and then Townsend is in two minds who to mark, so goes with neither, same as Ivanovic earlier. It's a team failing but if you wanted to be super critical, Hegazi could have made a better decision.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 09:44:09 AM by MarkW »
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johnny Cash

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #314 on: October 20, 2020, 10:08:46 AM »
Personally I dont think the 1st incident is Hegazi's fault.

The second, first view of the highlights I thought Hegazi had got sucked out right and didn't need to be there.

However when I watched it again, at the very start of the move Josh Brownhill breaks the line and is in behind.  If you watch he has a glance and see's Hegazi, which stops him bringing the ball down and getting towards the byline or into our box, which he no doubt would have done as he would have unmarked. 

Perhaps when Brownhill checks back Hegazi could have tried to get back quicker as furlong recovers but I dont think you can blame him. He covered his full back as that was the immediate threat. He has to trust that the others will shuffle over and cover him.




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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #315 on: October 20, 2020, 10:21:01 AM »
1st incident is definitely not Hegazi.  Pause it at 1:48 - it's Townsend who doesn't track his man, watch his movement, he stops and faces up and just lets his man run in behind.  Bizarre decision.

Hegazi has to cover, Livermore does well to drop in - that's pretty good defending from both there.  Townsend jogs back but doesn't do enough to put pressure on the ball or to stop the pass behind him.  Meanwhile Ivan has 2 players to mark as Furlong wasn't back in time - caught out by the hump forward.

Essentially we ended up with a back 4 of Hegazi as left back, Livermore CH, Ivan CH, Furlong - but Furlong has been caught out by the hoof and not back in time to take up position.  Hegazi absolutely has to go with his man - to say he should ignore that and just mill about where Livermore ended up is absurd.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 11:36:39 AM by boinging_along »

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #316 on: October 20, 2020, 10:55:20 AM »
Hegazi had a great game last night. It's obviously our best pairing, hopefully they stay injury free and we stick with it for the next half a dozen games at least.
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Re: match officials
« Reply #317 on: October 20, 2020, 11:45:42 AM »
He has had worse games. generally on top of the game, could/should have given GD and MP a bit more protection from the rough stuff, by booking Burnley guy after 4th or 5th foul, but generally few complaints from me--for a change

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Re: match officials
« Reply #318 on: October 20, 2020, 11:56:48 AM »
easy game for him really, Pieters should have been booked early on for persistent fouling, otherwise he reffed it ok. I was going to say he seemed a bit whistle happy but that was largely due to Burnleys tactics to break the game up.
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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #319 on: October 20, 2020, 01:28:49 PM »
My point with Hegazi is he isn't playing right back or left back, he gets sucked out towards the channels too much and when he does we lose our defensive shape and are outnumbered in the middle of the defence. With respect to that first header off the bar, when the ball is delivered Ivanovich had two men to cover and Hegazi is playing left back (pause at 1 min 56). Fast forward to their second big chance (pause at 2.21) and it's a carbon copy, except this time Hegazi has decided to play right back and Townsend is left all at see trying to stop Wood in the middle.

It's an aspect of his game that he has to learn from. IF he is going to run into the channel to compete for the ball then he has to win it or take his man down. What he can't do is close down the space in the channel, and leave a massive hole in the middle of the defence for when the cross comes in. It's up to the full backs and holding midfielder to press down the space on the flanks, not the centre backs. They have to take care of the No 1 danger which with Burnley was obviously two physical strikers to mark. That was even more important last night as Burnley are an exception to the rule, playing two up front and delivering a wave of crosses.

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #320 on: October 20, 2020, 01:33:39 PM »
My point with Hegazi is he isn't playing right back or left back, he gets sucked out towards the channels too much and when he does we lose our defensive shape and are outnumbered in the middle of the defence. With respect to that first header off the bar, when the ball is delivered Ivanovich had two men to cover and Hegazi is playing left back (pause at 1 min 56). Fast forward to their second big chance (pause at 2.21) and it's a carbon copy, except this time Hegazi has decided to play right back and Townsend is left all at see trying to stop Wood in the middle.

It's an aspect of his game that he has to learn from. IF he is going to run into the channel to compete for the ball then he has to win it or take his man down. What he can't do is close down the space in the channel, and leave a massive hole in the middle of the defence for when the cross comes in. It's up to the full backs and holding midfielder to press down the space on the flanks, not the centre backs. They have to take care of the No 1 danger which with Burnley was obviously two physical strikers to mark. That was even more important last night as Burnley are an exception to the rule, playing two up front and delivering a wave of crosses.

So at 1:56 you'd rather him be more central, and we just let the Burnley player get the ball down with no pressure and shoot himself?
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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #321 on: October 20, 2020, 01:35:25 PM »
So at 1:56 you'd rather him be more central, and we just let the Burnley player get the ball down with no pressure and shoot himself?

No point discussing it mate. His point is wrong, simple as that.
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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #322 on: October 20, 2020, 01:40:11 PM »
No point discussing it mate. His point is wrong, simple as that.

He just has this thing about Hegazi and it clouds his judgement. It doesnt matter what Hagazi does he will always be at fault.

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #323 on: October 20, 2020, 01:40:18 PM »
I can't think how anyone can see that first clip and not conclude that Hegazi had to go to his man.  The problem was Townsend not tracking back.  Hegazi can't just run over to him and kick him over ffs, it'd be a straight red.  When Hegazi tracks the runner the biggest dangers is the actual runner with the ball.  If Hegazi does nothing there he just runs through and scores.

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #324 on: October 20, 2020, 01:41:44 PM »
No point discussing it mate. His point is wrong, simple as that.

I'm not going to accept "he's wrong" as an explanation.

We've been caught out with both our fullbacks high and our midfield don't do enough in my opinion to get back and help. I just want to know what Hegazi should have done in that situation, because to me, when Hegazi contests the ball, he's inside the penalty area, so if he is more central, Gudmonson gets a shot off, rather than passing it backwards.
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