Author Topic: our strike force  (Read 1772 times)

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colinmax

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our strike force
« on: June 29, 2020, 06:42:41 AM »
I don't think Kanu is good enough but you have to be fair to him.
He always tries and early in the season he was coming on as sub when the game is stretched and the opposition tiring and he did an acceptable job.But then he had support from Phillips and Diagana among others.
Now he is expected to overcome the opposition on his own.
There is basically no support from overlapping fullbacks,Sawyers,Livermore,Phillips or Robinson,
Sawyers has 1 aaaist and 1 goal,Phillips seems totally unfit,Livermore has lost his early season verve and Robinson seems light weight so Grosicki must be given a start and most of the above mentioned players should be dropped.

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Re: our strike force
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2020, 08:59:01 AM »
I think the whole team is out of sorts at the moment.
Needs fixing and soon
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seteefeet

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Re: our strike force
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2020, 09:50:34 AM »
I think the whole team is out of sorts at the moment.
Needs fixing and soon
Agree, it's hard to see a combination that will work at present, especially with Sawyers being poor and Livermore non-existent.
Our problem areas, CF and CM look like being our ultimate downfall and there's no obvious fix, in terms of personnel at least, so 4-3-3 is an absolute must on Wednesday, if we don't then I don't know what Bilic is watching.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 10:26:30 AM by seteefeet »

timdon

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Re: our strike force
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2020, 10:14:35 AM »
The thread is about our strike force, and our problem is that we just don't have a striker worth his salt at this level. Kanu is and always was poor, although I give him some credit for putting in a shift. Austin is past his sell by date, even by Championship standards, and seems unfit and unable to last 90 minutes. I don't know who exactly thought that Zohore was the answer but I hope they are not still working for us. All 3 would be well under the standard required if we go up, and will need replaced whether we go up or not. The first problem is we have all of them under contract for at least another year. The second problem is that they will all be on decent wages, thus restricting any moves to replace them. The third problem is that they are all so **** that I can't see anyone else taking them (unless we do a job lot deal with Stoke).
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 10:20:37 AM by Hull Baggie »

paulosull

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Re: our strike force
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2020, 10:17:09 AM »
Well I'd give Austin a run out would say he can't be worse than the dross dished out in first two game's but who can tell.

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Re: our strike force
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2020, 10:27:51 AM »
Well I'd give Austin a run out would say he can't be worse than the dross dished out in first two game's but who can tell.

To be fair to the forwards we've created bugger all for them to be dross with in the first 2 games.

HRK didn't get a chance against Brentford through no fault of his own, Diangana had a great chance to play him in but his pass was woeful. I'd have kept him on for the first 15mins of the second half as the change of Krovinovic for Phillips had us more on the front foot and actually creating things.
Austin should be the striker coming on as a sub though. I think Zohore was used on Friday night as he has the build to cope better with the Brentford defenders (shame he doesn't have the skill though!).
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GREGMT

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Re: our strike force
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2020, 12:32:37 PM »
To be fair to the forwards we've created bugger all for them to be dross with in the first 2 games.

HRK didn't get a chance against Brentford through no fault of his own, Diangana had a great chance to play him in but his pass was woeful. I'd have kept him on for the first 15mins of the second half as the change of Krovinovic for Phillips had us more on the front foot and actually creating things.
Austin should be the striker coming on as a sub though. I think Zohore was used on Friday night as he has the build to cope better with the Brentford defenders (shame he doesn't have the skill though!).


I think they were 2 different games.  We dominated the ball v Blues and should have won with the shots on goal and goalscoring opportunities.  It was very even v Brentford and their midfielders showed they were on the same level skill wise, we still could've drawn it.

I believe most teams in the division would swap their midfielders for ours especially Pereira, Krovinovic, Diangana, Robinson, Sawyers.

Ask if most teams would swap their strikeforce for ours?  I think the answer is no, so what does that say?

If you're a midfielder and there's little movement ahead of you, what do you do?  Take pot shots yourself?  Put a hopeful cross in?  Pass to someone else to evade responsibility.

Rewind back to Middlesbrough (H) over Xmas, I remember a host of crosses going into the box aiming for one man against 3 or 4 defenders.  The problem is a lack of movement from the strikers deployed.

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Re: our strike force
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2020, 12:46:22 PM »
The thread is about our strike force, and our problem is that we just don't have a striker worth his salt at this level. Kanu is and always was poor, although I give him some credit for putting in a shift. Austin is past his sell by date, even by Championship standards, and seems unfit and unable to last 90 minutes. I don't know who exactly thought that Zohore was the answer but I hope they are not still working for us. All 3 would be well under the standard required if we go up, and will need replaced whether we go up or not. The first problem is we have all of them under contract for at least another year. The second problem is that they will all be on decent wages, thus restricting any moves to replace them. The third problem is that they are all so **** that I can't see anyone else taking them (unless we do a job lot deal with Stoke).

A very accurate assessment of the merits of all 3. None are good enough but I would still play Kanu on Wednesday night. What does that say about the other 2??

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Re: our strike force
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2020, 01:02:21 PM »
I think they were 2 different games.  We dominated the ball v Blues and should have won with the shots on goal and goalscoring opportunities.  It was very even v Brentford and their midfielders showed they were on the same level skill wise, we still could've drawn it.

I believe most teams in the division would swap their midfielders for ours especially Pereira, Krovinovic, Diangana, Robinson, Sawyers.

Ask if most teams would swap their strikeforce for ours?  I think the answer is no, so what does that say?

If you're a midfielder and there's little movement ahead of you, what do you do?  Take pot shots yourself?  Put a hopeful cross in?  Pass to someone else to evade responsibility.

Rewind back to Middlesbrough (H) over Xmas, I remember a host of crosses going into the box aiming for one man against 3 or 4 defenders.  The problem is a lack of movement from the strikers deployed.

I agree most (if not all) teams have at least 1 striker that is better than our 3 (on goals scored anyway).
We have still scored the 2nd highest amount in the division though so our goal drought isn't just down to the strikers lack of movement, it's more that the goals from elsewhere have also dried up because we aren't creating anything. We aren't shooting from distance much anymore and our set pieces have been poor.

Lack of movement isn't always the issue though. If crosses are going into the box and we only have one player in the box (the striker) then I'd argue it's a lack of support from midfield etc that's the problem rather than any movement from the striker. If the likes of Pereira, Robinson,Phillips, Diangana, Krovinovic were joining either Austin/HRK/Zohore we'd have more chance of scoring.

Lack of movement from the strikers was definitely an issue against Blues but in the first half against Brentford HRK got nothing to do anything with which was more down to the creative players not creating anything.
We looked a lot better for 15/20 mins in the second half after the introduction of Krovinovic and the change to 4-3-3, I just think we should have kept HRK  as he may have made more of the opportunities we created, although Zohore was unlucky hitting the bar.

We definitely need to change the way we are playing and I'd stick with Krovinovic in for Phillips and a 4-3-3 line up. When we played well in February Krovinovic linked up well with both Robinson and Townsend so maybe it's time we brought Townsend back in for Gibbs too.

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Re: our strike force
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2020, 01:44:50 PM »
I agree most (if not all) teams have at least 1 striker that is better than our 3 (on goals scored anyway).
We have still scored the 2nd highest amount in the division though so our goal drought isn't just down to the strikers lack of movement, it's more that the goals from elsewhere have also dried up because we aren't creating anything. We aren't shooting from distance much anymore and our set pieces have been poor.

Lack of movement isn't always the issue though. If crosses are going into the box and we only have one player in the box (the striker) then I'd argue it's a lack of support from midfield etc that's the problem rather than any movement from the striker. If the likes of Pereira, Robinson,Phillips, Diangana, Krovinovic were joining either Austin/HRK/Zohore we'd have more chance of scoring.

Lack of movement from the strikers was definitely an issue against Blues but in the first half against Brentford HRK got nothing to do anything with which was more down to the creative players not creating anything.
We looked a lot better for 15/20 mins in the second half after the introduction of Krovinovic and the change to 4-3-3, I just think we should have kept HRK  as he may have made more of the opportunities we created, although Zohore was unlucky hitting the bar.

We definitely need to change the way we are playing and I'd stick with Krovinovic in for Phillips and a 4-3-3 line up. When we played well in February Krovinovic linked up well with both Robinson and Townsend so maybe it's time we brought Townsend back in for Gibbs too.



I mostly agree.  Sawyers and Livermore hardly ever join attacks and make themselves a threat in the opponents box.  A box to box midfielder "is a must have" in the next transfer window.  For now Krovinovic just has to start, with Robinson and Grosicki to be also considered. 

I have a leftfield view in that I don't think starting one of HRK, Austin, Zohore is a necessity.  We are so well stocked with playmakers and wingers.  To fulfil this you could make a case for dropping Livermore for Ajeyi and putting him in a Mulumbu type role and pushing Sawyers 10 yards forward, knowing that Ajeyi is a far better athlete than Livermore.  Bartley would partner Hegazi.

Having Sawyers more advanced with Krovinovic, Pereira and probably one of Robinson/Grosicki would make us loads more threatening in my view.

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Re: our strike force
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2020, 02:42:25 PM »
I don't think always having a box to box midfielder is wise with the rest of the attacking options.  We have a forward, then 3 attacking midfielders behind them who should all be getting forward.  Throw in at least 1 wing back on each attack then we don't want Livermore or Sawyers being caught too far forward.

The problem is that the 3 strikers we can use just aren't very good at all.  If any of them could hold the ball up and bring the midfield in to play we would do WAAAY better.  And this issue was called at the start of the season but we were shouted down with "but but, we're the topscorers".

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Re: our strike force
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2020, 03:02:05 PM »
I mostly agree.  Sawyers and Livermore hardly ever join attacks and make themselves a threat in the opponents box.  A box to box midfielder "is a must have" in the next transfer window.  For now Krovinovic just has to start, with Robinson and Grosicki to be also considered. 

I have a leftfield view in that I don't think starting one of HRK, Austin, Zohore is a necessity.  We are so well stocked with playmakers and wingers.  To fulfil this you could make a case for dropping Livermore for Ajeyi and putting him in a Mulumbu type role and pushing Sawyers 10 yards forward, knowing that Ajeyi is a far better athlete than Livermore.  Bartley would partner Hegazi.

Having Sawyers more advanced with Krovinovic, Pereira and probably one of Robinson/Grosicki would make us loads more threatening in my view.

Personally I'd be dropping Sawyers. Before lockdown Livermore often got into the opposition box/ joined in with attacks. Since the restart Livermore seems to be playing as more the defensive midfielder allowing Sawyers to get forward more which he isn't doing particularly well. We also have resorted back to the 4-2-3-1 formation when we were doing well with a 4-3-3.

Ajayi looked all at sea when he played in midfield for us earlier in the season (I know it was only 1 game but still) and I don't think this is the time to try it again, there's too much at stake to be experimenting.

For me we just need to be more direct, stop passing for the sake of it and get crosses in first time as well as shooting from range.
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Re: our strike force
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2020, 03:23:07 PM »
Darnell Furlong said in the press last week tat the team have been working on being more solid, maybe this is why fullbacks are not pushing on,Sawyers / Livermore are less effective and the forwards (poor I know) are isolated.

If this is true, Slav needs to drop the solidity and get us back playing with some pace / verve / swagger, this is our strength don't negate it now at the business end of the season.
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Re: our strike force
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2020, 06:50:24 PM »
I mostly agree.  Sawyers and Livermore hardly ever join attacks and make themselves a threat in the opponents box.  A box to box midfielder "is a must have" in the next transfer window.  For now Krovinovic just has to start, with Robinson and Grosicki to be also considered. 

I have a leftfield view in that I don't think starting one of HRK, Austin, Zohore is a necessity.  We are so well stocked with playmakers and wingers.  To fulfil this you could make a case for dropping Livermore for Ajeyi and putting him in a Mulumbu type role and pushing Sawyers 10 yards forward, knowing that Ajeyi is a far better athlete than Livermore.  Bartley would partner Hegazi.

Having Sawyers more advanced with Krovinovic, Pereira and probably one of Robinson/Grosicki would make us loads more threatening in my view.
Said this....semi could be the key
I’d also go 3 at the back with O’Shea,hegazi and Bartley
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colinmax

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Re: our strike force
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2020, 05:59:11 AM »
Can anyone who saw the play off last night tell me that we should not be using Callum Morton this season if his contract allows?
Not tomorrow of course after playing last night and his probable celebrations.
He is fast,works hard,strong,uses the ball well and scores goals.
He was Man of the Match again and the commentators and pundits were all full of praise for him.
He must be given a game probably as sub first.,

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Re: our strike force
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2020, 07:25:40 AM »
Darnell Furlong said in the press last week tat the team have been working on being more solid, maybe this is why fullbacks are not pushing on,Sawyers / Livermore are less effective and the forwards (poor I know) are isolated.

If this is true, Slav needs to drop the solidity and get us back playing with some pace / verve / swagger, this is our strength don't negate it now at the business end of the season.
This is what it looked like, I suppose it must have seemed a sensible plan to try to just make sure we didn't lose the first game back and then Brentford was always going to be tough, but I think we need to go back to the "if you score 2, we'll get more" mentality for the last few games, we need at least 3 wins.

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Re: our strike force
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2020, 10:58:37 AM »
Can anyone who saw the play off last night tell me that we should not be using Callum Morton this season if his contract allows?.....

Genuinely unsure as to this question. I'm not on Twitter but if you are then you could ask young Callum yourself.......

https://mobile.twitter.com/cmorton_10?locale=gl
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If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
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Re: our strike force
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2020, 04:22:24 PM »
regarding Morton I'm fairly sure that we cannot use him as we cannot register him for this season as he's already registered at another league club for the season? Logically, that makes sense, unless there is ome different rules for youth players.

Regarding what we do have, I'm of the thinking that we should just start Austin. He's the most goal-aware striker on the books, accept he's not going to last the full 90 and get HRK on at 55/60 minutes to run like crazy at the tiring defence.

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Re: our strike force
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2020, 09:36:57 AM »
regarding Morton I'm fairly sure that we cannot use him as we cannot register him for this season as he's already registered at another league club for the season? Logically, that makes sense, unless there is ome different rules for youth players.

Regarding what we do have, I'm of the thinking that we should just start Austin. He's the most goal-aware striker on the books, accept he's not going to last the full 90 and get HRK on at 55/60 minutes to run like crazy at the tiring defence.

I'd rather we start HRK let him tire the defenders out, then bring on Austin for the last 30 mins or so, he showed at Blues how his positional sense and speed of thought can affect a tiring defence. Tiredness is a mental thing as much as a physical thing.
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Re: our strike force
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2020, 10:52:16 AM »
But isn't HRK there to score goals not just to tire defences out

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Re: our strike force
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2020, 04:28:17 PM »
If we had a decent striker we'd be free and clear at the top of the division.

Granted the creative players haven't been doing their job recently, but we have had enough chances in games we've lost / drawn to have won even more. If we could have converted just two draws into wins with two extra goals, we wouldn't be feeling the pressure.

Whichever division we're in next season, I wouldn't want any of HRK, Austin, or Zohore with us.

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Re: our strike force
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2020, 04:31:15 PM »
Imagine a fit Dwight Gayle playing in front of our current creative players. 35 goals easy.

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Re: our strike force
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2020, 04:54:11 PM »
Imagine a fit Dwight Gayle playing in front of our current creative players. 35 goals easy.
imagine a fit Dwight Gayle !
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Re: our strike force
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2020, 05:49:59 PM »
If we had a decent striker we'd be free and clear at the top of the division.

Granted the creative players haven't been doing their job recently, but we have had enough chances in games we've lost / drawn to have won even more. If we could have converted just two draws into wins with two extra goals, we wouldn't be feeling the pressure.

Whichever division we're in next season, I wouldn't want any of HRK, Austin, or Zohore with us.

Completely agree although even an average striker who is a bit different to what we already have would have helped. Someone like Jutkiewicz or Fletcher who can attack anything slung into the box especially late on when we are chasing a game. I was hoping Zohore might have been that player but he's useless. None of our strikers can head a ball.

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Re: our strike force
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2020, 06:30:57 PM »
imagine a fit Dwight Gayle !

I can.... he’s just scored!