Author Topic: Wba end of year finances 2018-19  (Read 2903 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

gazberg

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1983
Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« on: April 01, 2020, 10:26:12 AM »
https://twitter.com/mjmarr_star/status/1245278903519924224?s=19

Post-balance sheet notes reveal #wba made a profit of nearly £18m in player sales last summer (Dawson, Rondon, Rodriguez). Strategic report confirms aim of "radically reducing" average age of squad+Darren Moore sacked due to genuine fears they would miss out on the play-offs.


Masi later stated the above and wage bill halved as revenue fell by over 50m

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/04/01/west-brom-accounts-reveal-7m-losses/


leeiswba

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 2925
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2020, 11:35:53 AM »
We are still a very well run club, honestly don’t get some of the **** the board and that get sometimes.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 03:45:18 PM by MarkW »

Albionic

  • Site Donator
  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 5230
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2020, 12:39:49 PM »
I am starting to question 'what is the benefit of being a well run club?" when you see what

a) the boundary pushing owner / agent thing at Knuckledraggers inc and
b) the Squeal sanctuarys flagrant disregard of all financial integrity

results in, maybe we should join the vermin in the pigs trough !!   I am running out of time waiting for the "bubble" to burst and want to see us competitive again.
Lovin the championship, just lovin it !

KN22

  • Youth Baggie

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 839
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2020, 01:00:15 PM »
I am truly shocked by the staggering wage bill at the club. Goodness knows what the wages per man were in the premier league (it has to be something like £60K+ per man on average for first team) Even now in the championship it is safe to assume from the numbers shown that many still earn £40k plus per week. I love the game and miss it badly at present. I do however think these salary levels are obscene.

paulosull

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3123
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2020, 02:14:14 PM »
I am truly shocked by the staggering wage bill at the club. Goodness knows what the wages per man were in the premier league (it has to be something like £60K+ per man on average for first team) Even now in the championship it is safe to assume from the numbers shown that many still earn £40k plus per week. I love the game and miss it badly at present. I do however think these salary levels are obscene.
mind boggling figures for the average Joe soap.

gazberg

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1983
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2020, 02:17:09 PM »
I am truly shocked by the staggering wage bill at the club. Goodness knows what the wages per man were in the premier league (it has to be something like £60K+ per man on average for first team) Even now in the championship it is safe to assume from the numbers shown that many still earn £40k plus per week. I love the game and miss it badly at present. I do however think these salary levels are obscene.

I think our top earners are on around 30-35k p/w in the Champo so Gibbs and Brunt will be up there or thereabouts. Mental.

TheJacko2000

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 11801
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2020, 02:49:44 PM »
Geez imagine doing a job whereby you aren't even good/successful enough to be working for a top tier organisation, and yet your annual wage is £1.8 million

Must be nice


The players were good enough, only one reason we went down.


Pardew.
Proud to be a Baggie. BOING BOING.

tommcneill

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 12719
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2020, 03:14:35 PM »
Good enough to being paid astronomical amounts of money?

Bare in mind if Chris Brunt is indeed on 35k a week then he is currently being paid a salary that is £1.67 million more than the prime minister salary

One is a publically funded position, the other a privately funded one. There isnt a comparison.

Dr's earn more than nurses, nurses earn more than care workers. Why?

B_H_Baggie : Dexy : Dudleylad : kris_boing : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Hull Baggie : LiamTheBaggie : Political Cake : tommcneill : WBArgo

its not just the winning thats important...its rubbing the losers face in it after that counts

TheJacko2000

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 11801
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2020, 03:16:37 PM »
Good enough to being paid astronomical amounts of money?

Bare in mind if Chris Brunt is indeed on 35k a week then he is currently being paid a salary that is £1.67 million more than the prime minister salary


Ah so you've gone from intimating they were being paid too much for 2nd tier players, to they're being paid too much full stop.


Extra, extra... Footballers in over-inflated salary shocker... Read all about it.
Proud to be a Baggie. BOING BOING.

baggiejohn

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3005
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2020, 03:18:19 PM »
This really is an old argument, our players are in the entertainment industry & that's what they get paid.
Along with golfers, tennis players, formula 1 drivers etc.

When the economy goes belly up as a consequence of the Coronavirus crisis, entertainers earnings will reduce dramatically.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

A wise old owl sat in an oak, the more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

TheJacko2000

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 11801
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2020, 03:49:17 PM »
Nah you're totally right. Absolutetly no reason whatsoever to discuss football players salaries, especially not during the eve of what will be the deepest economic recession of my grandparents lifetime.

I unreservedly apologise for having the audacity to suggest West Brom players being paid £1.8m is a lot of money.


It's as if you've just woken up after 20 years in hibernation though. No contracts have been signed since the outbreak.
Proud to be a Baggie. BOING BOING.

tommcneill

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 12719
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2020, 04:00:26 PM »
Nah you're totally right. Absolutetly no reason whatsoever to discuss football players salaries, especially not during the eve of what will be the deepest economic recession of my grandparents lifetime.

I unreservedly apologise for having the audacity to suggest West Brom players being paid £1.8m is a lot of money.

Not sure what you're trying to prove though?

Footballers have had high salaries for 30+ years or more.....Private healthcare sector Dr's get paid more than public healthcare Dr's......

You cant compare public funded salaries over private funded ones

You might not like it but thats how it is, unless you think we should pay 80% tax on our income so that Dr's etc can then come into line with what footballers get paid by a private organisation.

Perhaps you are also alarmed that Prem footballers get paid more than non-league ones for doing the same job
B_H_Baggie : Dexy : Dudleylad : kris_boing : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Hull Baggie : LiamTheBaggie : Political Cake : tommcneill : WBArgo

its not just the winning thats important...its rubbing the losers face in it after that counts

BalisPen

  • Youth Baggie

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 528
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2020, 04:38:14 PM »
If Brunt is on more than £10k now someone needs sacking.

Barry should be on no higher than £5k plus bonuses for playing.

Albionic

  • Site Donator
  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 5230
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2020, 06:48:25 PM »
Ok sarcy posts aside I do accept that randomly bringing up players salaries today isn't exactly super topical.

However what I will say is my post was spurred on by the news this morning about how Spurs and also Newcastle are going to furlough their none playing staff despite having owners worth in the billions.

So safe to say I am a bit peeved off with the financial state of football today of all days

I think you have a valid point but the object of your ire is wrong, its not the players who are the problem in Spurs furloughing staff. It is the owner who is worth $Billions wanting the UK tax payer to subsidise his staffs wages by 80%, absolutely disgusting !  Should be declared an unfit owner in my opinion.
Lovin the championship, just lovin it !

Baggie Pete

  • WBA Newbie

  • Offline

  • 1
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2020, 07:03:44 PM »
I am sure nearly everyone agrees footballers are paid too much. but with all the money going into the game principally from TV, either the players get very rich or the owners do.

Its obscene but so long as they pay tax to fund all the needs for the country I accept its the going rate. Personally, I would like to see fans pay less and more investment in infrastructure. That said Albion's ticket prices look great compared to the top London clubs.

baggie53

  • Youth Baggie

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 585
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2020, 07:15:20 PM »
I think you have a valid point but the object of your ire is wrong, its not the players who are the problem in Spurs furloughing staff. It is the owner who is worth $Billions wanting the UK tax payer to subsidise his staffs wages by 80%, absolutely disgusting !  Should be declared an unfit owner in my opinion.

I wonder how the players would cope furloughed on £2500 a month
Vorwärts die Breiten Hosen !

Albionic

  • Site Donator
  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 5230
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2020, 07:34:48 PM »
I wonder how the players would cope furloughed on £2500 a month

Their employer could make up the balance, or they could foxtrot oscar
Lovin the championship, just lovin it !

Standaman

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 6808
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2020, 10:04:59 PM »
Even accepting that players are the stars of the show and the show brings in a lot of revenue players are in general over paid.

Clubs in the Championship routinely have wage bills in excess of 100% of their revenues that is insane. Now this is justified by the potential revenues that promotion to the Premier League brings yet many Premier League clubs lose money so even at the pinnacle of the game players are taking more from the game than the game earns.

It really does not matter what an individual player earns the debate as to whether player x or y is worth his salt is largely facile. The plain fact is if clubs are losing money and the biggest expense is the player wage bill, that along with it's closely related inbred cousin the transfer fee and it's illegitimate offspring the agent fee, is a problem.

Some may argue that the tab is picked up by wealthy owners. Even setting aside the notion that there might be more socially worthwhile causes to lavish money on than funding a Premier League's footballers second Bentley this misses the point. Just the narrow perspective of the long term health of the game, this model has failed time and time again nearly every sugar daddy owner grows tired of funding a club and walks away. Yet the wage bill they have funded sits like a millstone around a club's neck.

Returning to the Albion, yes we are relatively well run and some fans hate the board for it. If a few clubs died for being badly run maybe sanity would start to prevail. The current crisis should be a wake up call for football on many fronts not least the long term sustainability of the professional game.

Standaman - Born to be a Baggie.

baggiejohn

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3005
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2020, 08:25:36 AM »
Even accepting that players are the stars of the show and the show brings in a lot of revenue players are in general over paid.

Clubs in the Championship routinely have wage bills in excess of 100% of their revenues that is insane. Now this is justified by the potential revenues that promotion to the Premier League brings yet many Premier League clubs lose money so even at the pinnacle of the game players are taking more from the game than the game earns.

It really does not matter what an individual player earns the debate as to whether player x or y is worth his salt is largely facile. The plain fact is if clubs are losing money and the biggest expense is the player wage bill, that along with it's closely related inbred cousin the transfer fee and it's illegitimate offspring the agent fee, is a problem.

Some may argue that the tab is picked up by wealthy owners. Even setting aside the notion that there might be more socially worthwhile causes to lavish money on than funding a Premier League's footballers second Bentley this misses the point. Just the narrow perspective of the long term health of the game, this model has failed time and time again nearly every sugar daddy owner grows tired of funding a club and walks away. Yet the wage bill they have funded sits like a millstone around a club's neck.

Returning to the Albion, yes we are relatively well run and some fans hate the board for it. If a few clubs died for being badly run maybe sanity would start to prevail. The current crisis should be a wake up call for football on many fronts not least the long term sustainability of the professional game.

As you so eloquently state Stan, it appears that WBA operating costs are reasonably in control.
The thing that worries me, is the owner sitting with a capital asset, for which he paid an alleged £200 million, which he is not going to get a return anytime soon.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

A wise old owl sat in an oak, the more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

Albionic

  • Site Donator
  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 5230
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2020, 08:48:40 AM »
As you so eloquently state Stan, it appears that WBA operating costs are reasonably in control.
The thing that worries me, is the owner sitting with a capital asset, for which he paid an alleged £200 million, which he is not going to get a return anytime soon.

Is it really a worry though, what are his options
a) asset strip - ground? training ground is outside the residential planning envelope and I believe the land belongs to Aston University anyway.
b) Sell, not a chance of re-couping his outlay and in the current economy there will be next to no potential suitors (Standaman has written some excellent pieces on this in the past)
c) Leave us to wither and die, hardly good business sense.
d) maintain what he has in the hope that Slav (or a successor) is the messiah and turns the club into a desirable asset

Lovin the championship, just lovin it !

liverbaggie

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1486
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2020, 10:20:52 AM »
Talking about the latest p/l accounts, with a 7 million loss ,which to my mind is a job very well done.
Doesn't Mr Lai  still owe the club several million,which if paid back would be a big pat on the back for our CEO.

baggiejohn

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3005
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2020, 12:03:41 PM »
Is it really a worry though, what are his options
a) asset strip - ground? training ground is outside the residential planning envelope and I believe the land belongs to Aston University anyway.
b) Sell, not a chance of re-couping his outlay and in the current economy there will be next to no potential suitors (Standaman has written some excellent pieces on this in the past)
c) Leave us to wither and die, hardly good business sense.
d) maintain what he has in the hope that Slav (or a successor) is the messiah and turns the club into a desirable asset

That's the point, none of the options are good, & even if we are promoted & establish ourselves as a Premier League club, it's unlikely that our valuation will get to anything like the alleged £200 million that Lai paid for us.
Additionally, if reports from China are correct, he wouldn't be allowed to write down the loss as that would mean cash leaving China. Not allowed under the present regime.

Also, by far the largest asset value in a football club are player contracts. If, as is now likely, player contracts are to be negotiated downwards then the sell-on value of the player would also decrease.

As commentators have said, the financial landscape will change dramatically once the coronavirus crisis is over, & from an operational level, we're probably better positioned than most, but I'm not sure how long we're going to be able to operate without a cash injection & clearly that's not going to come from our present owner.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

A wise old owl sat in an oak, the more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

KN22

  • Youth Baggie

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 839
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2020, 12:39:36 PM »

The players were good enough, only one reason we went down.


Pardew.

Nothing to do with Pulis then?? Unbelievable. I blame ;D him more than Pardew. He (Pulis) didn't have to take over from Pulis… If you get my drift  ;D

gazberg

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1983
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2020, 01:01:50 PM »
Pulis was completely spent well before the season started. No way would he have kept us up.

The decision to give him a new fat contract when he clearly didn't want to be here along with his **** poor record and the biggest transfer kitty yet despite his previous poor records when given permission to splurge at his other clubs condemned us in one swoop.

Standaman

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 6808
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2020, 01:07:30 PM »
Lai is stuck. He paid too much for the club.  The salable assests don't add up to what he paid for them. He has made a huge loss on this venture. It is however a paper loss and in the world of klepto capitalism it doesn't count until it crystallises i.e. the club is sold for less than what he paid for it. He can't sell his way out of it.

While the losses are manageable at the moment running at £7m a season and largely offset by £39m profit in the penultimate season in the Premier League. That and player sales (fees in the post pandemic world might not be what they were once were) keep the show on the road but how long this is sustainable is debatable. In the short term we don't have some of the financial stresses many clubs are under but promotion is becoming more important to the club's financial well being. 
Standaman - Born to be a Baggie.

Hull Baggie

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 5268
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #25 on: April 02, 2020, 01:16:46 PM »
Nothing to do with Pulis then?? Unbelievable. I blame ;D him more than Pardew. He (Pulis) didn't have to take over from Pulis… If you get my drift  ;D

For me they are both equally to blame.
 The board needs to take some of the blame by not sacking Pulis at the end of the previous season when we hardly won a game after February and threw away the chance to get to 50 points for the first time in our Pl history. Also the players need to take a portion of the blame for just not trying hard enough for managers they'd either lost faith in (Pulis) or didn't believe in (Pardew).

Anyway back to the topic. I'm glad we are a well run club; sure I'd like us to be more successful but spending outside of your means doesn't necessarily bring that.



B_H_Baggie : Dexy : Dudleylad : kris_boing : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Hull Baggie : LiamTheBaggie : Political Cake : tommcneill : WBArgo

TheJacko2000

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 11801
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #26 on: April 02, 2020, 01:28:01 PM »
Nothing to do with Pulis then?? Unbelievable. I blame him more than Pardew. He (Pulis) didn't have to take over from Pulis… If you get my drift


Without going over old ground, in a word, no.


Pulis had us outside the bottom 3, Moore had us in the top 6. What happened in between relegated us. If blame were to be spread further it would be whoever didn't sack Pardew and the cab 4 as soon as the plane landed.
Proud to be a Baggie. BOING BOING.

geoff

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 6733
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2020, 09:09:05 AM »
Pulis was completely spent well before the season started. No way would he have kept us up.

The decision to give him a new fat contract when he clearly didn't want to be here along with his **** poor record and the biggest transfer kitty yet despite his previous poor records when given permission to splurge at his other clubs condemned us in one swoop.

Pulis did a GREAT job keeping us up & did the job that he was brought in to do. it was the clubs fault for offering him another contract.

gazberg

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1983
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2020, 09:24:02 AM »
That's what i was saying. His work and time here was done. The error was giving him the new contract.

zippyandbungle

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 4724
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2020, 11:26:06 AM »
This really is an old argument, our players are in the entertainment industry & that's what they get paid.
Along with golfers, tennis players, formula 1 drivers etc.

When the economy goes belly up as a consequence of the Coronavirus crisis, entertainers earnings will reduce dramatically.
My counter to that argument would be that ordinarily in entertainment the people would be paid for doing the job...in football they are paid for being available to do a job.

If Pogba was on a basic of 20k and got 180k if he plays for more than 60 mins...I’d suggest he wouldn’t miss as many games ?
If you bring it back to our club...forgetting emotion, players like Barry, brunt Zohore Austin should all be on NFMW (national football minimum wage) 😄 and then getting 30k for each segment of 60 mins

I’d imagine training would be quite a bit more intense too
If youre going to get told off, get told off for doing something not for doing nothing..

paulosull

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3123
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2020, 12:22:24 PM »
Why haven't players in the top two league's taken pay cuts? All I can say is greedy so and so's.

BalisPen

  • Youth Baggie

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 528
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2020, 04:04:18 PM »
Pulis lost interest and wanted the sack and the ensuing pay off so he could go elsewhere and get a signing on bonus because he had that massive £5m plus judgement against him from the Palace case.

Pardew, well I cannot write on here what I think of him other than to say it was one of the worst days of my life when he joined us and that I have always hated the self obsessed nobody.

The Tank

  • Junior Baggie

  • Offline
  • **

  • 101
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2020, 05:46:34 PM »
Well we did, at least, beat VAR assisted Liverpool away.
Not many teams have done that in since.

SmethDan

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 4440
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2020, 02:20:22 PM »
.......Pardew, well I cannot write on here what I think of him other than to say it was one of the worst days of my life when he joined us and that I have always hated the self obsessed nobody.

I was less than impressed with Pardew's appointment too, but if it was one of the worst days of your life you've definitely led a more charmed one than I have.
It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
Oh, and always remember to defecate on those Vile chaps in claret and spew.


Standaman

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 6808
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #35 on: April 09, 2020, 11:18:18 AM »
Another article from the Mail on the state of Championship finances

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8197663/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Championship-owners-considering-group-administration-solve-wages-dilemma.html

In essence all of the 24 championship clubs are considering a joint administration. This is extremely unlikely to happen because collectively the 24 clubs seldom agree on anything and this course of action would only require one dissenting voice to scupper it.

Yet even to mention this as an option tells you how utterly desperate the situation is for most clubs. It does not matter how wealthy your owners are it does not matter how many fans you took to wherever on a Tuesday night. It does not matter how much your star player is worth if football finances collapse he ain't worth tuppence anyway.

None of this matters because if clubs are teetering on the brink of insolvency it never takes much to push them over the edge the current crisis is way beyond a gentle shove in the wrong direction. 
Standaman - Born to be a Baggie.

LiamTheBaggie

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *****
  • @westbromcom

  • 12445
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #36 on: April 09, 2020, 12:14:16 PM »
https://twitter.com/mjmarr_star/status/1245278903519924224?s=19

Post-balance sheet notes reveal #wba made a profit of nearly £18m in player sales last summer (Dawson, Rondon, Rodriguez). Strategic report confirms aim of "radically reducing" average age of squad+Darren Moore sacked due to genuine fears they would miss out on the play-offs.


Masi later stated the above and wage bill halved as revenue fell by over 50m

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/04/01/west-brom-accounts-reveal-7m-losses/

There’s a line in here that I find infuriating. Sacking Moore because there were genuine fears of not making the play-offs, yet they presided over one of the most embarrassing ill thought managerial recruitments in the history of this football club, before giving the reigns to a glorified PE teacher.

Jenkins and Downing threw promotion into the river last season and we should not lose sight of that
B_H_Baggie : Dexy : Dudleylad : kris_boing : MarkW : OldburyWBA
Hull Baggie : LiamTheBaggie : Political Cake : tommcneill : WBArgo

Follow WestBrom.com on twitter - https://twitter.com/WestBromcom

Standaman

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 6808
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #37 on: April 09, 2020, 01:36:34 PM »
There’s a line in here that I find infuriating. Sacking Moore because there were genuine fears of not making the play-offs, yet they presided over one of the most embarrassing ill thought managerial recruitments in the history of this football club, before giving the reigns to a glorified PE teacher.

Jenkins and Downing threw promotion into the river last season and we should not lose sight of that

This is the eternal coach swap narrative. It is unprovable in either direction. At the point of Moore's departure we didn't have much if any shout at the automatics. In truth we probably weren't going to miss the play-offs although our form was pretty dire.

The problem always one of timing with just 10 games left what the hell is anyone expecting? For the coach switch to make rational sense it had to happen literally months earlier and even delaying to the point when one prize was lost and the fear of losing the conciliation prize took over then a replacement had to be lined up. Whether it was out of misplaced fairness to the incumbent (well don't fire them then) or incompetence it was plain that was not the case.

At the time it made no rational sense it still doesn't. Obviously a favourable outcome can always be used as post hoc rationale. 
Standaman - Born to be a Baggie.

gazberg

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1983
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #38 on: April 09, 2020, 02:08:40 PM »
They went for the cheap option and screwed it up big time. Any half decent coach would have walked the Champo with the team we had last year.

alex1

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3039
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #39 on: April 10, 2020, 12:33:39 AM »
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8197663/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Championship-owners-considering-group-administration-solve-wages-dilemma.html

Don't know how close this article is to the reality. If it is, all Championship clubs have got some very hard decisions to make, and that includes 'well-run' clubs such as WBA. Jenkins taking a 100% salary cut for the time being is not just the right thing to do, it looks crucial to setting the right example to the players. I assume the club's wages bill is way over 50% of the club's budget.

If the club loses gate receipts and TV for the rest of the season, that's a massive hole in the budget. This looks like being a massive wakeup call to the football industry in general. Alot of clubs will not be able to re-coup losses from the transfer market if the value of players nose dives. The whole food chain of banks lending money to finance debts may hit the buffers.   Then you are looking at clubs of our size either radically downsizing, or going out of business. Hope I'm not being too alarmist.
Einstein: A definition of insanity- someone who takes the same action time after time, even though previously it's always ended in failure

Standaman

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 6808
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2020, 01:14:40 AM »
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-8197663/MARTIN-SAMUEL-Championship-owners-considering-group-administration-solve-wages-dilemma.html

Don't know how close this article is to the reality. If it is, all Championship clubs have got some very hard decisions to make, and that includes 'well-run' clubs such as WBA. Jenkins taking a 100% salary cut for the time being is not just the right thing to do, it looks crucial to setting the right example to the players. I assume the club's wages bill is way over 50% of the club's budget.

If the club loses gate receipts and TV for the rest of the season, that's a massive hole in the budget. This looks like being a massive wakeup call to the football industry in general. Alot of clubs will not be able to re-coup losses from the transfer market if the value of players nose dives. The whole food chain of banks lending money to finance debts may hit the buffers.   Then you are looking at clubs of our size either radically downsizing, or going out of business. Hope I'm not being too alarmist.


As I said earlier I doubt the clubs will opt for a collective administration but be in absolutely no doubt that this is a real financial crunch. Most Championship club owners would be better off just walking away and letting the clubs fold and writing off their investment.


They went for the cheap option and screwed it up big time. Any half decent coach would have walked the Champo with the team we had last year.

I would take issue with exactly how good the team was but I would accept we had one of the better squads and one that was certainly capable of getting promoted.

You can legitimately criticise the board for

1. Not a appointing a Director of Football in the Summer
2 Appointing Moore (popular decision as it was at the time)
3. Firing Moore too late or at all
4. Not having a replacement in place when they fired Moore

However Moore was not a cheap option. I do not know for certain but I am fairly confident that Moore was paid better than most managers in the Championship. Why? Because we were able to hire Graeme Jones and as assistant head coaches go in the Championship he would not have been cheap far from it.

My guess is that Moore was paid more than Chris Wilder who lead Sheffield United to promotion. In any event of those Managers who I believe would have been better paid. Bruce and Rowett didn't make it to the end of the season Pulis failed. Belisa and Lampard had similar outcomes to our own. We could easily have spent more money on a Head Coach and got a worse outcome or even less and got a better one.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 11:13:30 AM by Standaman »
Standaman - Born to be a Baggie.

gazberg

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1983
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2020, 03:28:07 PM »
Maybe i should have said unambitious rather than cheap as it's true i don't know what Moore was paid. It was obvious we always wanted a Bilic type who is manyt times more expensive than Moore types i'm sure it's fair to say.


I certainly agree with your 4 points.

Standaman

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 6808
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #42 on: April 11, 2020, 08:49:32 AM »
Maybe i should have said unambitious rather than cheap as it's true i don't know what Moore was paid. It was obvious we always wanted a Bilic type who is manyt times more expensive than Moore types i'm sure it's fair to say.


I certainly agree with your 4 points.

I am not sure Bilic is earning vastly more than Moore was being paid which makes his presence at the club a bit more puzzling. Bilic was available the previous summer but I don't think at the time would have been interested in a Championship job.

The other names that were linked with us last summer was Chris Hughton and  Bruno Labbadia. Hughton has yet to return to the game after having a break whereas Labbadia has recently joined Hertha Berlin taking over the reigns from Jurgen Klinsmann and as such continued to his role as the go to fire fighter coach in the Bundesliga. I am not even sure they were realistic targets. Had we not appointed Bilic I am not sure who we would have appointed and in general Bilic is a bit of an outlier in terms of experience and stature when you look across the Championship

Aside from Cocu the only other real heavy weight coach appointed by any Championship club in the last two seasons is Marcelo Bielsa at Leeds who was appointed around the same time we appointed Moore. Yet despite being hugely influential among a generation of Spanish and Latin American coaches there is still a bit of the air of the mad professor surrounding him. Had we appointed him instead of Moore (not that it was ever a realistic possibility) I would have been as worried as I would have been excited.

Standaman - Born to be a Baggie.

gazberg

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1983
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #43 on: April 11, 2020, 08:52:12 AM »
If Bilic isn't worth much more than Darren Moore then that makes the boards decision to hire DM even more ridiculous in my eyes.

Standaman

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 6808
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2020, 09:15:17 AM »
If Bilic isn't worth much more than Darren Moore then that makes the boards decision to hire DM even more ridiculous in my eyes.

Slaven Bilic can command a much higher wage than Darren Moore but not at a Championship Club. While no doubt he earns more than Darren did there is still a limit to what the club can pay and it isn't a multiple of what Darren Moore was earning. If Bilic was solely interested in maximising his earnings he would not be a realistic appointment for the club he would have gone elsewhere.

The choice the previous summer was not Moore or Bilic. It was Moore or Potter or Smith. personally I would have gone with one of the alternatives and I have no way of knowing how that would have turned out. 
Standaman - Born to be a Baggie.

gazberg

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1983
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2020, 09:24:50 AM »
Yes none of us could have known for sure if we had gone for the others. It was just a regrettable choice to go with DM which a fair amount of us thought at time of his appointment.

baggiejohn

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3005
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2020, 06:58:57 PM »
If Bilic isn't worth much more than Darren Moore then that makes the boards decision to hire DM even more ridiculous in my eyes.


I'm still of the opinion that DM was a figurehead, Jones was the real target. In the event, Jones went & DM followed soon after.
I think it's a bit degrading to call Jimmy Shan a glorified PE teacher, allegedly he was the brains behind the DM tenure at the end of the previous season, & took us to within a penalty shoot-out of a play-off final.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

A wise old owl sat in an oak, the more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

Hunnington Baggie

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3192
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2020, 07:29:09 PM »

I'm still of the opinion that DM was a figurehead, Jones was the real target. In the event, Jones went & DM followed soon after.
I think it's a bit degrading to call Jimmy Shan a glorified PE teacher, allegedly he was the brains behind the DM tenure at the end of the previous season, & took us to within a penalty shoot-out of a play-off final.
you say that but Dave was doing a decent job at Doncaster before the world ended, and that’s without Jones or Shan. I don’t think he’s as useless a manager as some are making him out to be.

gazberg

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1983
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2020, 07:31:16 PM »
He just wasn't ready for us. That was more the boards fault than his. Like the bloke but dont rate the manager. I'm sure with a few more years experenced under his belt he will be fine.


The less said about Jones the better!

geoff

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 6733
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2020, 08:22:07 PM »
Big Dave didn't seem to have a plan B &
Was slow in making changes when called for. Loved the bloke then & still do. I'm sure we'll meet again another day.

Standaman

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 6808
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #50 on: May 11, 2020, 08:35:24 AM »
Interesting twitter thread from Swiss Ramble on our Finances.

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1259732230416596993

It has lots of graphs and comparative data that can't be copied and pasted onto this board.
Standaman - Born to be a Baggie.

AlbionFan

  • Site Donator
  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3353
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #51 on: May 11, 2020, 10:42:16 AM »
 Thank you for the post Standaman, which provided a detailed and interesting insight into the club's finances.

I am by no means an accountant, but my reading and understanding of the club's current financial position from that thread, would indicate a club that is very well run overall, given the financial tsunami that hit following relegation

ps well worth a read
Remember, when you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It’s only painful to others.

The same applies, when you are stupid

SmethDan

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 4440
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2020, 01:38:32 PM »
Interesting twitter thread from Swiss Ramble on our Finances.

https://twitter.com/SwissRamble/status/1259732230416596993

It has lots of graphs and comparative data that can't be copied and pasted onto this board.

Good link. Clearly articulates the following. We're a very tight ship. Many are not and have clearly been taking the financial p for some time. We are highly dependent on TV revenue, something which we all knew. And we really need to get back on the gravy train as soon as possible, providing there's any gravy left of course.
It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
Oh, and always remember to defecate on those Vile chaps in claret and spew.

baggiejohn

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3005
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #53 on: May 11, 2020, 02:23:44 PM »
Good link. Clearly articulates the following. We're a very tight ship. Many are not and have clearly been taking the financial p for some time. We are highly dependent on TV revenue, something which we all knew. And we really need to get back on the gravy train as soon as possible, providing there's any gravy left of course.

As a EPL club, we were dependant on broadcast revenue, (I thought EPL clubs got more per game than Championship, but I did some research & it's about the same, it's the merit money & other payments that make the big difference).

Gate receipts form a pretty big chunk of our revenue in the Champs, & over the lat 2 seasons we've had a sizeable parachute payment, which will be meagre in comparison next season.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

A wise old owl sat in an oak, the more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

kirk

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1980
Re: Wba end of year finances 2018-19
« Reply #54 on: May 12, 2020, 04:16:12 PM »
As a EPL club, we were dependant on broadcast revenue, (I thought EPL clubs got more per game than Championship, but I did some research & it's about the same, it's the merit money & other payments that make the big difference).

Gate receipts form a pretty big chunk of our revenue in the Champs, & over the lat 2 seasons we've had a sizeable parachute payment, which will be meagre in comparison next season.

Would had been less remember the 4 million pound loan jp gave him self is still outstanding
It's easy to have faith in yourself and have discipline when you're a winner, when you're number one. What you got to have is faith and discipline when you're not a winner.