Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 61634 times)

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Albionic

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #625 on: March 24, 2020, 11:56:57 AM »
This is a snippet from this mornings Telegraph

What are the rules?

Mr Johnson has said you will only be able to leave your house for one of four reasons:

1. Shopping for necessities
2. Once a day for exercise
3. Medical need or providing care
4. Travelling to or from work (if you can't work from home)

Contrary to what people and sections of the media are saying, we are not yet in a full lockdown as Italy and Spain are

Well I mis-heard then, seems really half ar5ed if thats the case. what on earth are the authorities supposed to enforce under those parameters??
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AlbionFan

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #626 on: March 24, 2020, 11:59:30 AM »
That’s correct most contracts do include a force majeure clause, however given the amount of time that has elapsed since the initial outbreak and the hard evidence of other countries who are further down the line with the effects of the virus it’s hard to see how it could be considered an unforeseen act of god.

There is a discernable difference between a "Force Majuer" and "vis major" (act of God) in law.

Force majeure is used to describe an event that occurs which is beyond the control of the parties, and which prevents them from fulfilling their contractual obligations.

Courts have previously determined that "force majeure" is an event which goes beyond what the courts understands by the terms 'vis major'.

But I suspect, if it comes to it, a court of law would have to decide.
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The Black Pearl

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #627 on: March 24, 2020, 12:04:52 PM »
It's not that they're misleading, they're just still vague.

Don't go to work, unless you have to.
Don't go out to meet anyone, unless it's just one person.
Don't go out, unless you're going for some exercise or walking the dog.

The problem is that people and companies aren't using common sense so will find any loophole they can.

Where did that one come from, you don't go out to meet someone, that is absolute nonsense. :-X
Baggie in Southampton

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #628 on: March 24, 2020, 12:15:04 PM »
My thoughts are go out to all the married men in the world, who have told their wives, "I'll do that when I have got the time".
Time's up dudes!

AlbionFan

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #629 on: March 24, 2020, 12:22:32 PM »
Right, we've had a fair dose of doom and gloom this morning, now it's time for a touch of good old fashioned British classic comedy to lighten things up and put a smile back on faces.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pV1IP4N9ajg

Has no one not had a little chuckle at "Fork Handles"? Seriously? :D
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boinging_along

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #630 on: March 24, 2020, 12:24:49 PM »
Where did that one come from, you don't go out to meet someone, that is absolute nonsense. :-X

Public gatherings of more than two people (excluding family) are banned.

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silver surfer

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #632 on: March 24, 2020, 12:39:43 PM »
There is a discernable difference between a "Force Majuer" and "vis major" (act of God) in law.

Force majeure is used to describe an event that occurs which is beyond the control of the parties, and which prevents them from fulfilling their contractual obligations.

Courts have previously determined that "force majeure" is an event which goes beyond what the courts understands by the terms 'vis major'.

But I suspect, if it comes to it, a court of law would have to decide.
Doesn't an act of god fall within the criteria of Force majuer as with war and plague?
My point is that this spread of the virus and the disruption it would cause could be seen a mile off given what was happening in many other places and the reliance upon Force Majeure for breach of contract is a bit shaky, hence the reluctance for builders and construction companies to shut sites of their own accord.
anything can be proven with facts.
I much prefer knee jerk reaction and prejudice

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #633 on: March 24, 2020, 12:49:49 PM »
This is a snippet from this mornings Telegraph

What are the rules?

Mr Johnson has said you will only be able to leave your house for one of four reasons:

1. Shopping for necessities
2. Once a day for exercise
3. Medical need or providing care
4. Travelling to or from work (if you can't work from home)

Contrary to what people and sections of the media are saying, we are not yet in a full lockdown as Italy and Spain are

That is exactly right. My company remains open (manufacturer of heavy steel goods) and cannot function unless people are there. So no, it is not a total lockdown at present.

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #634 on: March 24, 2020, 01:08:06 PM »
The government ideally need to shut down construction sites too - ridiculous that they are still continue to operate as normal despite the Governments instructions.

Again, the tubes and trains were ransacked with people trying to get to work. It really doesn’t work to restrict the number of transport services and still have sections of work remaining open. We’re in effect creating a major issue for ourselves.

Shut down all elements of work accept for those in the key workers.

There is no reason for me as to why construction sites are remaining open unless they are undertaking work which is of benefit to the NHS
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #635 on: March 24, 2020, 01:09:13 PM »
Public gatherings of more than two people (excluding family) are banned.

All public meetings are banned, no one goes out to meet someone, you stay within your household.
Baggie in Southampton

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #636 on: March 24, 2020, 01:21:58 PM »
I thought last night was Boris Johnson’s best press conference. Statesmanlike and leadership in abundance.

He’ll regret winning that bloody election at this rate !
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #637 on: March 24, 2020, 01:28:48 PM »
Doesn't an act of god fall within the criteria of Force majuer as with war and plague?
My point is that this spread of the virus and the disruption it would cause could be seen a mile off given what was happening in many other places and the reliance upon Force Majeure for breach of contract is a bit shaky, hence the reluctance for builders and construction companies to shut sites of their own accord.

Acts of God are unpredictable natural events such as storm, earthquake, flood etc. whereas Force Majeure is, human-initiated action that cannot be predicted or controlled by the party to the contract. I think the word "controlled" is significant

At the moment, given government Rules, there is no reason or requirement for Builders to stop working. If the government went for a full hard lockdown, then I don't consider there would be any room for manoeuvring by any party to the contract to seek reparation from the other party.

However, if one party thought they had a legitimate case, there is no precedent, that I am aware of that covers the current set of circumstances, so if court proceedings were initiated the judge(s) would have to adjudicate, thus setting precedent for future similar actions.
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #638 on: March 24, 2020, 01:47:51 PM »
My thoughts are go out to all the married men in the world, who have told their wives, "I'll do that when I have got the time".
Time's up dudes!
Yup  >:( >:( >:(

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #639 on: March 24, 2020, 01:52:51 PM »
Just had a phone call from the care home that my 94 year old father-in-law is in. He has been isolated for about six days from the rest of the community, they are sure he hasn't got Covid-19, but he is not responding to the antibiotics he is on and they asked us to come to the home and see him as soon as possible. They said  they will provided us with full protective clothing and equipment. Both of us are thinking the worst and just taking awhile to compose ourselves before we set out.

I'm not looking forward to this, he is a man I have known for close on fifty years and a man I have respected for all of those years. Sorry if I'm burdening you with this, but I'm a little shaken at the moment.
Remember, when you are dead, you do not know you are dead. It’s only painful to others.

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boinging_along

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #640 on: March 24, 2020, 02:09:43 PM »
Bugger, good luck AlbionFan, to you and your family.

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #641 on: March 24, 2020, 02:11:20 PM »
More scum.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-52019720

Iceland need those vans for deliveries, possibly to those who vunerable and daren't go out.

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #642 on: March 24, 2020, 02:12:34 PM »
Just had a phone call from the care home that my 94 year old father-in-law is in. He has been isolated for about six days from the rest of the community, they are sure he hasn't got Covid-19, but he is not responding to the antibiotics he is on and they asked us to come to the home and see him as soon as possible. They said  they will provided us with full protective clothing and equipment. Both of us are thinking the worst and just taking awhile to compose ourselves before we set out.

I'm not looking forward to this, he is a man I have known for close on fifty years and a man I have respected for all of those years. Sorry if I'm burdening you with this, but I'm a little shaken at the moment.

You shouldn't apologies. It's a difficult time. All the best to you and your family.

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #643 on: March 24, 2020, 02:45:26 PM »
Just had a phone call from the care home that my 94 year old father-in-law is in. He has been isolated for about six days from the rest of the community, they are sure he hasn't got Covid-19, but he is not responding to the antibiotics he is on and they asked us to come to the home and see him as soon as possible. They said  they will provided us with full protective clothing and equipment. Both of us are thinking the worst and just taking awhile to compose ourselves before we set out.

I'm not looking forward to this, he is a man I have known for close on fifty years and a man I have respected for all of those years. Sorry if I'm burdening you with this, but I'm a little shaken at the moment.

Sorry to hear this AlbionFan.
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #644 on: March 24, 2020, 02:56:59 PM »
That’s correct most contracts do include a force majeure clause, however given the amount of time that has elapsed since the initial outbreak and the hard evidence of other countries who are further down the line with the effects of the virus it’s hard to see how it could be considered an unforeseen act of god.

The devil is in the drafting but I suspect that Covid-19 and our government's response to it would constitute a force majeure event. Of course that doesn't in itself necessarily guarantee protection from liability for failing to perform or for delay in performance.

What will be interesting is what happens with contracts lacking a force majeure clause (you'd be amazed how many there are). Showing that a contract has been 'frustrated' is difficult at the best of times and the fact that there have been two other pandemics in the last 15 years puts you on a sticky wicket. You'd be left arguing that the extent of the global government enforced shutdowns was unforeseeable. It'll be a feeding frenzy for the lawyers.


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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #645 on: March 24, 2020, 03:54:27 PM »
Just had a phone call from the care home that my 94 year old father-in-law is in. He has been isolated for about six days from the rest of the community, they are sure he hasn't got Covid-19, but he is not responding to the antibiotics he is on and they asked us to come to the home and see him as soon as possible. They said  they will provided us with full protective clothing and equipment. Both of us are thinking the worst and just taking awhile to compose ourselves before we set out.

I'm not looking forward to this, he is a man I have known for close on fifty years and a man I have respected for all of those years. Sorry if I'm burdening you with this, but I'm a little shaken at the moment.

Hope its not what you fear, my thoughts are with you and your Mrs mate.
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #646 on: March 24, 2020, 04:55:55 PM »
Just had a phone call from the care home that my 94 year old father-in-law is in. He has been isolated for about six days from the rest of the community, they are sure he hasn't got Covid-19, but he is not responding to the antibiotics he is on and they asked us to come to the home and see him as soon as possible. They said  they will provided us with full protective clothing and equipment. Both of us are thinking the worst and just taking awhile to compose ourselves before we set out.

I'm not looking forward to this, he is a man I have known for close on fifty years and a man I have respected for all of those years. Sorry if I'm burdening you with this, but I'm a little shaken at the moment.
Thoughts with you and the family.
Hope the old fella gets through .
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #647 on: March 24, 2020, 05:00:04 PM »
Roads in London still very busy from what I saw on the BBC news. Tube trains packed.

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #648 on: March 24, 2020, 05:12:11 PM »
Just had a phone call from the care home that my 94 year old father-in-law is in. He has been isolated for about six days from the rest of the community, they are sure he hasn't got Covid-19, but he is not responding to the antibiotics he is on and they asked us to come to the home and see him as soon as possible. They said  they will provided us with full protective clothing and equipment. Both of us are thinking the worst and just taking awhile to compose ourselves before we set out.

I'm not looking forward to this, he is a man I have known for close on fifty years and a man I have respected for all of those years. Sorry if I'm burdening you with this, but I'm a little shaken at the moment.

Thinking of you. Be careful

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #649 on: March 24, 2020, 05:55:03 PM »
Thinking of you. Be careful

No burden mate.
Thinking of you .God Bless.